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Mistakes were made (Veteran Ranks)
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ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭plays MMORPG....complains about grinding.....Lol>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree with the OP completely - vet levels was a mistake and should be normalised to L50, let people explore the other content for fun not for pitiful gear upgrades, and let people actually feel powerful rather than weak and crappy after killing Molag Baal.5 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I myself just wished vet zones had their own, separate quest line, instead of simply doing the other factions quests. I also wish you went to the other factions zones in the present, instead of going thru an alternate timeline, and none knowing who you are but that's just me.3 -
Darkstorn42✭✭✭p.hurst1b16_ESO wrote: »...Daily random veteran (dungeons) for your tier with a solid reward such as 750g 10000VP per tier, a Grand soul gem and a roll on a blue item list...
This, yes, this is needed. Something that allows us to level in a way that isn't questing or boss grinding. I love dungeons, they are my favorite part of MMOs. I want there to be an actual reward for repeating them.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭@NookyZooky
Not just you, I think that is the biggest problem in most peoples minds. Some people complain about them being too hard... well.... less said about that the better.2 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Here's whats wrong (IMO);- Difficulty is too high. This is probably because most people don't have the patience to craft new optimised gear every single Veteran Rank. Which is normal. Veteran Ranks aren't endgame, it's just more leveling content but they named it differently.
- Too much grindstone. Who wants to spend a few more weeks after hitting cap before they can enjoy the actual endgame content with their friends?
- Endgame content will be wasted away. When Craglorn was added, the Veteran level cap was raised. If Zenimax were to do this with every new zone, the last one would become just more leveling content. If we could just have this all normalised for level 50, we'd have A TON of endgame to enjoy.
Discuss.
I'm happy to see so many in this post disagreeing with the OP. I was personally shocked at all the outrage over Veteran Rank content.
1. Difficulty was too low in the 1-50 content and just about right in Veteran. The game was a snooze before and now fights are actually fun because I need to pay attention or take a dirt nap.
2. So you enjoyed your 1-50 time but are completely adverse to going through that two more times? I do not understand. Each faction takes the same amount of time regardless if you're going from 1-50 or vr1-5.
3. I don't get this point. You hate doing Veteran Content but you think you would have more incentive to do it if you weren't being rewarded with experience?
Me personally, I enjoy the combat of the game and do not care about the story at all. I can see story aficionados and roleplayers being upset that they are now helping the 'enemy faction' but to me, I saw 3x the content and was very happy.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points2 -
Possible Spoilers Alert......Tannakaobi wrote: »I think you are missing the point. Why are people thinking this way?
I'll tell you why I'm thinking this way. It's poor story telling. The kind of idea you would expect in a child's homework story. I don't want to be a hero of AD after running with EP. I detest AD and would rather see them burn. put me in front of Queen Ayrenn and I will slit her throat, not bow down to her every whim, come on FFS this is Elder Scrolls.
I had to post after reading this. It made me laugh so hard. Thank you.
This is my feeling exactly but more towards, I want drive my sword through Emeric's chest every time I see him.
I don't think that Zenimax and other players understand how passionate some of us are about story. The reason I loved lvls 1-50 was because of the great storytelling. Main quest, many side quests and the Fighters Guild.
I chose EP. First experience was the butchering of innocent people by the Daggers. It was a powerful moment for me. Now why would I go to DC to help. The only joy I got was when I selected a bad option on one quest and the guy killed his whole family. Yes, I laughed and thought that would undermine the DC's war effort (he was an important person).
I know some people do not care about quests and story. But for those of us who do, the whole reasoning for going to the other factions is off. Why not give us a choice? You go as a spy, go as a diplomat, go as a traitor. Have veteran only quests that fit the path you have taken. Those roles are real in war. Is not the primary theme of this game the Alliance War? Why not let me focus on that after dealing with Molag Bal?
Spy - do things to undermine the enemies war effort.
Diplomat - do things to try and reach a peace agreement.
Traitor - flip sides because you no longer believe in your faction.
The above would have been more interesting. I would have gladly gone through the other 2 factions if they had given me quests with those themes. But that would have meant more development work. Instead, I get to play through the same quests as the person choosing that faction.
And lastly, we get that it is supposed to be in the past and seeing from another perspective. But does the game get it. I walk by some NPCs and they are talking about the Great Shackle being destroyed. I walk by others and they recognize me as the hero that did that thing in Coldharbour. Does not look like a lot of attention nor thought was given to the Veteran questing experience.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭dalendriaub17_ESO wrote: »
And lastly, we get that it is supposed to be in the past and seeing from another perspective. But does the game get it. I walk by some NPCs and they are talking about the Great Shackle being destroyed. I walk by others and they recognize me as the hero that did that thing in Coldharbour. Does not look like a lot of attention nor thought was given to the Veteran questing experience.
Exactly, I won't quote everything, but I agree with every word. I'm not even much of a PVE players in general myself although I have always liked a good TES session. My dislike for a faction comes from PVP. I'm not really there yet, but the principle is.
What I have quoted is pretty much how I feel. To add further, the combat is the same. Some mobs are really hard and then the boss goes down like Molag Bal has just had a crap on top of it's head. It's the little inconsistencies that make me feel that, actually they have just done mass upgrade to every encounter.
I actually like the difficult combat. The harder the better, but it'd the nagging feeling in the back on my head that I am somehow being cheated that ruins the enjoyment of VR. That and the grind, and it is a grind. 2/3 of the game, it would be much more fun slaughtering the majority and then up the level for the end of each quest. It's seems that all 1-50 is on easy mode and all VR1-10 is hard. Why not have it all medium with some easy bits and some hard bits.
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Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »Veteran Content isn't "end game". It is a way for the players to experience the other Alliances content and regions, and still get XP for doing so.
It is a great way for players to get access to all achievement possibilities regarding skyshards, dungeons, anchors, region bosses, etc. without being seen as an "enemy" when you enter those zones.
I personally find it is a very novel way of giving users access to a crap ton of more content than would be available if everything died when you finished Coldharbour at level 50.
It is great that people can experience the rest of the map. Time travel.. Alternate reality.. Whatever.
The whole thing comes across as contrived and counter to the overarching narrative of the multiplayer Alliance vs Alliance Cyrodil war thing to me.
I would prefer to be seen as an enemy in those zones just as I am in Cyrodil and would much rather slit Queen Arwyn's throat than help her become queen.
We could have been given access to the other zones with spy missions, assassination plots, invasions, etc. and still have access to the dungeons, the dolmens, etc...
Options! We need well-developed robust options!!
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alexj4596b14_ESO✭✭✭And that's okay, but when you make a mistake, it's up to you to step up, say 'I've made a mistake' and fix it. I believe I'm not the only one who thinks Veteran Ranks were a bad idea. I can't count on 4 hands how many people I've seen complain about them.
Here's whats wrong (IMO);- Difficulty is too high. This is probably because most people don't have the patience to craft new optimised gear every single Veteran Rank. Which is normal. Veteran Ranks aren't endgame, it's just more leveling content but they named it differently.
- Too much grindstone. Who wants to spend a few more weeks after hitting cap before they can enjoy the actual endgame content with their friends?
- Endgame content will be wasted away. When Craglorn was added, the Veteran level cap was raised. If Zenimax were to do this with every new zone, the last one would become just more leveling content. If we could just have this all normalised for level 50, we'd have A TON of endgame to enjoy.
That's why everything should be normalised to level 50 and Veteran Ranks should be a prestigious reward. That way, people can enjoy optimising their gear, we'd have much more endgame and people who have already leveled up some Veteran Ranks won't lose their progress. We also won't be forced to quest grind, people who like to quest like me can do it at their own pace to earn the achievements titles and prestigious Veteran Ranks.
Don't give me any of that 'I've done it so everyone has to' bullsh. If you think that way you're being very selfish. Next to that, if you have already done it and this would be implemented, it would be more enjoyable to roll an extra character and build it up for endgame. On top of that, people will probably stay instead of being discouraged to get to VR700 to play endgame, keeping the game alive instead of making it roll into a free2pay2win model.
tldr; Veteran Ranks should be normalised to level 50 and Veteran Ranks should be a cosmetic/prestige reward.
Discuss.
i said the same thing0 -
Rofaka✭✭✭JessieColtub17_ESO wrote: »Veteran Content isn't "end game". It is a way for the players to experience the other Alliances content and regions, and still get XP for doing so.
It is a great way for players to get access to all achievement possibilities regarding skyshards, dungeons, anchors, region bosses, etc. without being seen as an "enemy" when you enter those zones.
I personally find it is a very novel way of giving users access to a crap ton of more content than would be available if everything died when you finished Coldharbour at level 50.
It is great that people can experience the rest of the map. Time travel.. Alternate reality.. Whatever.
The whole thing comes across as contrived and counter to the overarching narrative of the multiplayer Alliance vs Alliance Cyrodil war thing to me.
I would prefer to be seen as an enemy in those zones just as I am in Cyrodil and would much rather slit Queen Arwyn's throat than help her become queen.
We could have been given access to the other zones with spy missions, assassination plots, invasions, etc. and still have access to the dungeons, the dolmens, etc...
Options! We need well-developed robust options!!
To me time travel and alternate realities are a cheap and easy way of story-writing. I mean, there's no consequences to anything and there's always a way out...
BUT SUDDENLY... *TIME TRAVEL*
You can really use that in any given situation. Now, players have to help queen Ayrenn even if they don't want to, otherwise you can't get to endgame.0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »
I think you are missing the point. Why are people thinking this way?
I'll tell you why I'm thinking this way. It's poor story telling. The kind of idea you would expect in a child's homework story. I don't want to be a hero of AD after running with EP. I detest AD and would rather see them burn. put me in front of Queen Ayrenn and I will slit her throat, not bow down to her every whim, come on FFS this is Elder Scrolls.
Quite. It's not 'clever', it's transparent hand-waving to justify not having developed proper content. If I want to experience the other faction stories I'll do it as an alt.
The plot should continue into the other areas from L50.0 -
Rofaka✭✭✭Tannakaobi wrote: »dalendriaub17_ESO wrote: »
And lastly, we get that it is supposed to be in the past and seeing from another perspective. But does the game get it. I walk by some NPCs and they are talking about the Great Shackle being destroyed. I walk by others and they recognize me as the hero that did that thing in Coldharbour. Does not look like a lot of attention nor thought was given to the Veteran questing experience.
Exactly, I won't quote everything, but I agree with every word. I'm not even much of a PVE players in general myself although I have always liked a good TES session. My dislike for a faction comes from PVP. I'm not really there yet, but the principle is.
What I have quoted is pretty much how I feel. To add further, the combat is the same. Some mobs are really hard and then the boss goes down like Molag Bal has just had a crap on top of it's head. It's the little inconsistencies that make me feel that, actually they have just done mass upgrade to every encounter.
I actually like the difficult combat. The harder the better, but it'd the nagging feeling in the back on my head that I am somehow being cheated that ruins the enjoyment of VR. That and the grind, and it is a grind. 2/3 of the game, it would be much more fun slaughtering the majority and then up the level for the end of each quest. It's seems that all 1-50 is on easy mode and all VR1-10 is hard. Why not have it all medium with some easy bits and some hard bits.
The grind is the worst, and they can just normalise everything and be done with it while having a very big, open, challenging endgame that's not mandatory.
It doesn't even make sense that there's wild beetles out there that are stronger than Molag Bal, what are these? Daedric Prince beetles?3 -
LariahHunding✭✭✭✭All you peeps that think VR is great, enjoy playing with console players when they come online (if they do, may trash the whole idea before then), because ZoS will have to combining servers to have enough to play.
"Give a man a sweet roll, he only has one to steal. Give him a sweet roll recipe, he have bunches to steal."
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Rofaka✭✭✭gougefub17_ESO wrote: »All you peeps that think VR is great, enjoy playing with console players when they come online (if they do, may trash the whole idea before then), because ZoS will have to combining servers to have enough to play.
Personally, I can really see the game not launching on consoles at all. Popularity is down so badly, how will they ever hold up even more megaservers? The endgame needs to be AT CAP, like every other mmo.
There's a reason these games were made this way, what normal person would enjoy grinding their teeth off for weeks before being able to enjoy the game?0 -
Pellaeon✭✭I don't like the Idea that I have to go to another faction's zone to level in veteran ranks.
Every time I feel silly for helping out my enemy. If I wanted to be a part of this faction I would create and alt and do so. So often I just get disinterested in quests because I am no longer immersed in the story.
I just went through an epic quest to stop a Daedric Prince and afterwards I am sent to my enemies lands where its as if none of that has ever transpired? Kinda breaks the immersion for me. Just seems like 1-50 all over again with no foreseeable reward at the end of the tunnel.@gorall Stamina Templar-AD3 -
It doesn't even make sense that there's wild beetles out there that are stronger than Molag Bal, what are these? Daedric Prince beetles?
rofl. thank you for making me laugh. It kind of reminds me of the first time I had to kill a Frost troll in Skyrim. I think I was level 8. It quickly destroyed me. I posted on the forum asking if it was a Super Troll.
But yes, the mob power is strange now. Skeevers should not be so strong. And I have had more difficulty with elite boss fights than Molag Bal.
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Rofaka✭✭✭I don't like the Idea that I have to go to another faction's zone to level in veteran ranks.
Every time I feel silly for helping out my enemy. If I wanted to be a part of this faction I would create and alt and do so. So often I just get disinterested in quests because I am no longer immersed in the story.
I just went through an epic quest to stop a Daedric Prince and afterwards I am sent to my enemies lands where its as if none of that has ever transpired? Kinda breaks the immersion for me. Just seems like 1-50 all over again with no foreseeable reward at the end of the tunnel.
That's why they should scratch the veteran ranks, so that you may enjoy the endgame without HAVING to break immersion. People who would be willing to do this should be able to, others could just roll an alt.1 -
Darrett✭✭✭✭1. I don't want to help my enemies.
2. I want to fight epic foes, not upscaled Thunderbeetles after killing Molag Bal.
3. I want to be able to PvP without having to grind out more annoying quests where I have to find someone's teddy bear. Solve your own problems, I already saved the world.
It's just not fun at the VR levels.5 -
Rofaka✭✭✭I don't see many people paying a monthly fee for a game where they have to grind for weeks before they can do the fun content. what is 'fun' can be debated but for most people it's the co-op endgame content, not the questing.
That being said, I don't want this game to fall into the micro-transaction genre...1 -
Blud✭✭✭✭✭I don't think VR zones are too difficult at all. I play as a Templar up to VR5 and I like visiting the VR zones. But I don't think we should be forced to play these zones to level. It's tedious and takes away from what can be really enjoyable content if played at your own pace or when you feel like it.
I'm not sure what the answer is but something needs to be done because most players are just burning themselves out trying to rush through good content to reach max level.
You might find that VR6-10 zones are a little bit different.0 -
nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »Have you seen how little veteran ranks mean? V10 gear is about 10% stronger than lvl 50 gear.
The big difference is that high veteran players have been forced to become better players in order to survive and overcome what they have faced.
The difficulty increase every veteran level but you don't become stronger, so you have to learn to get on.
Taking on the challenge of getting up veteran levels is far more entertaining and interesting than farming and repeat farming for gear.
In pvp once you are V1 you are competitive if you are a good player, that is when you no longer get any ability or cap problems in Cyrodiil.
Ver ranks are pointless, just a massive grind of content which i didn't want to see unless i made another character. With this current leveling system i will never make another character. Shame really because i like alts, but sod doing them vet lvs again.
At vet 4 at moment almost 5, nightblade. I find it hard to log on and play, just been in cyrodil for past few weeks. Cant do anymore of them quest zones.
Game is not difficult, these levels are just boring as hell, gear has basicly no power increase at all and u get nothing for a vet lv. Cap should of been 50.Edited by madstoogb16_ESO on June 9, 2014 9:13AM3 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well either what the OP wrote or make sure character progression continues into Vet levels - new skills, more stats, better looking gear (apart from colors visual gear progression stops at lev 46). Also a proper quest line for the vet ranks should have been made... maybe making you a spy sent to learn the secrets of the other factions, helping ordinary people and fignting evil forces while youre there, or making you a part of some cross-faction fighters/mages guild undertaking.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on June 9, 2014 9:44AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »Well either what the OP wrote or make sure character progression continues into Vet levels - new skills, more stats, better looking gear (apart from colors visual gear progression stops at lev 46). Also a proper quest line for the vet ranks should have been made... maybe making you a spy sent to learn the secrets of the other factions, helping ordinary people and fignting evil forces while youre there, or making you a part of some cross-faction fighters/mages guild undertaking.
Quite. I bet at one time they intended to do something like that but time just ran out so they did some hand-waving, applied an across the board multiplier to create Super-Skeevers and claimed people were clamouring to run the other faction stories (not just to be able to quest into other areas).
What you propose - with new foes to provide a ramped up challenge we could continue to meet 'playing the way we want' - would have me subbing for years.
When they said that VR would take us into enemy territory that's what I expected.0 -
andersan✭✭✭If questing, questing, and more questing is what you people like to do, then ESO is the game for you.
That should be the ad for ESO. The game is literally nothing but questing and Cyrodiil. Oh maybe a trial here and there, but that's about 15 minutes of your time.
It seems the people that defend v1-10 are just avid questers and questing is what they love to do. What happens when they run out of quests?1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭I for one love questing purely because of the great faction story. I stop loving questing when the story stops making sense and is just a transparent excuse to impose a grind.0
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Drasn✭✭✭✭I feel bad for my home faction after completing Vet Content... it would appear that just to survive the wilds of the other factions you have to be a much tougher individual... pretty sure we are gonna lose the war.Edited by Drasn on June 9, 2014 10:10AM1 -
Absinthe✭✭✭So let me ask you this OP - would you be satisfied if 2/3'rds of the games content was completely locked to you unless you rerolled to another faction? Guess what happens then? You still have to do it ALL over again.
And who says you have to be VR 12 to have fun in this game? Take your time and you will get there.
You speak about "end game" content. Well right now you have the trials (AA & Hel Ra) and I can promise you that most current vr12's can not be successful in this "end game" content in which you wish to take part. I do not necessarily consider Cyrodil "end game" content as a lvl 10 can enter and participate.
The veteran content is there for several reasons. First, and perhaps most importantly, it forces you to get the most out of your character or else you will not be successful. Second, it allows you to pick up gear that you can deconstruct in order to make better equipment later. Third, moar skyshards! You can try other weapons/armor or new crafting skills. Fourth, it opens up content. Despite your dis-content I have rather enjoyed the content that the other factions get to play through.
Sorry that you do not enjoy the "grind" as people here have referred to it. But I will give you a tip - join a group (or create one) and kill the world bosses, dolmens, and public dungeons in each zone. Thats 1/2 a vet rank right there. It's not that hard...2