I think VR difficulty is still broken!

Mithlob · June 2014

See this is exactly what I am talking about. If that 2nd imp moves away from group why didn't you use Rune Prison then burn down 1st imp and root the melee (or burn with the 1st imp)? I watch you players all the time trying to use the exact same skill set/weapon for every encounter and when it doesn't work you complain. Learn to play.

Edit Exact same issue with templars complaining about casters who don't use Eclipse...

Wavemoore · June 2014

Cyrus The Virus wrote: »

You are the HERO in this game and the killer of kings assassins, the slayer of beasts, vampires and werewolfs. But those damn 2 imps you cannot kill...

Sadly so, which is the point of my post. But you login to ridicule and make yourself feel smart and important rather than contribute anything useful.

Congratulations on your supremeness, we all bow down to you!

Fyrakin · June 2014

Mithlob wrote: »

See this is exactly what I am talking about. If that 2nd imp moves away from group why didn't you use Rune Prison then burn down 1st imp and root the melee (or burn with the 1st imp)? I watch you players all the time trying to use the exact same skill set/weapon for every encounter and when it doesn't work you complain. Learn to play.

Edit Exact same issue with templars complaining about casters who don't use Eclipse...

How convenient is to change skills every few minutes while you walk out in the wild? Can you do it whil allready in combat? Question list goes on and on, point is in VR areas you still level, its not end content, you don't get any decent loot for doing it, you just merely experiencing what other alliances have on dinner. The whole idea for trash mobs to be this OP is questionable.

Wavemoore · June 2014

Mithlob wrote: »

See this is exactly what I am talking about. If that 2nd imp moves away from group why didn't you use Rune Prison then burn down 1st imp and root the melee (or burn with the 1st imp)? I watch you players all the time trying to use the exact same skill set/weapon for every encounter and when it doesn't work you complain. Learn to play.

Edit Exact same issue with templars complaining about casters who don't use Eclipse...

Well it's easy to completely change the scenario so that you can say "learn to play". It was 2 imps. Not an imp and melee. Although rune prison is a good suggestion for this example. Why couldn't you have left it at that? It's an alternative I hadn't considered. However, instead of just making the recommendation you had to throw in your insults didn't you? Just couldn't help yourself.

Mithlob · June 2014

If switching skills is an issue there are addons that make to so you can swap full sets with a click of a button. However, the fact that the very idea of switching skills for particular mobs or setting up a default defensive or "anything could happen bar" says VR content is not for you. Also due to crafting every green,blue, and purple item is an upgrade because you can deconstruct and make a rare weapon/armor of your choosing.

babylon · June 2014

Wavemoore wrote: »

Cyrus The Virus wrote: »

You are the HERO in this game and the killer of kings assassins, the slayer of beasts, vampires and werewolfs. But those damn 2 imps you cannot kill...

Sadly so, which is the point of my post. But you login to ridicule and make yourself feel smart and important rather than contribute anything useful.

Congratulations on your supremeness, we all bow down to you!

I think he was saying how ironic that all was...

As in, he was not mocking you. Try re-reading his post in that new light.

GreasedLizard · June 2014

Hexanon wrote: »

The imps are indeed the worst. 2 of them immediately split making it hard to interrupt both as a melee. At VR4, normal attacks upwards of 800 and special fire that they seem to spam every second is 2000+. 1 missed interrupt (not to mention that the mobs are separated) and it's death.

they are the new world bosses

Wavemoore · June 2014

babylon wrote: »

Wavemoore wrote: »

Cyrus The Virus wrote: »

You are the HERO in this game and the killer of kings assassins, the slayer of beasts, vampires and werewolfs. But those damn 2 imps you cannot kill...

Sadly so, which is the point of my post. But you login to ridicule and make yourself feel smart and important rather than contribute anything useful.

Congratulations on your supremeness, we all bow down to you!

I think he was saying how ironic that all was...

As in, he was not mocking you. Try re-reading his post in that new light.

Yes you are right, fair enough

I had read his post after a the slew of L2P posts and of course I read it in that light. Thanks for the different point of view!

babylon · June 2014

Wavemoore wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Wavemoore wrote: »

Cyrus The Virus wrote: »

You are the HERO in this game and the killer of kings assassins, the slayer of beasts, vampires and werewolfs. But those damn 2 imps you cannot kill...

Sadly so, which is the point of my post. But you login to ridicule and make yourself feel smart and important rather than contribute anything useful.

Congratulations on your supremeness, we all bow down to you!

I think he was saying how ironic that all was...

As in, he was not mocking you. Try re-reading his post in that new light.

Yes you are right, fair enough

I had read his post after a the slew of L2P posts and of course I read it in that light. Thanks for the different point of view!

np

Spectrasoul · June 2014

In theory every single one of us can block / interrupt / roll dodge, we all understand the basic mechanics, it's not a L2P issue at all like some are so eager to claim.

In practice when you're actually playing there are a number of reasons why it isn't as simple as just interrupting or blocking or roll dodging.

1) Server Lag - Often you're smashing your keyboard and nothing happens until it's too late.
2) Stamina management - Most people don't stack stamina because compared with magicka it simply isn't worth it. You don't always notice it depleting and when the time comes you need to roll dodge out of that fire trail or w/e, you've not got enough.
3) Spell FX - If you play with high detail like I do then there is so much going on that often it's hard to see the red path until it's too late. Especially since enemy and player fire spells are identical.
4) Unfair AI - Yes it's hard, but it's sometimes unfairly hard. When you've got 2 casters and the melee charging attacks at the same time, how are you supposed to block or interrupt them all? One missed interrupt on a healer is almost certain death because they will just wear you down while they're back up to full HP.
5) Targeting - Let's face it, it sucks. I know you can use tab but even that doesn't always help. I'm not saying you should be able to lock on and fight something with your back turned, but it is pure luck who you'll hit when the enemies are stacked on top of each other, thus making it difficult to land that all important interrupt. This is something which needs improving.
6) Misc. Bugs - For example my crit from stealth works about 50% of the time. This is game breaking against groups of 3. If it works it's essentially a free kill, if not then it is extremely hard to grind them all down.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Wavemoore · June 2014

UPDATE: I've since moved on to the VR9 area, and I'm seeing what I would expect to be "normal" levels of damage from both archers and casters. So, either that upper half of Greenshade is a bit overtuned or it's supposed to be hard because you are coming to the end of the zone quest chain. Maybe the latter is the answer here, but man I have to admin it owned me.

LariahHunding · June 2014

Wavemoore wrote: »

UPDATE: I've since moved on to the VR9 area, and I'm seeing what I would expect to be "normal" levels of damage from both archers and casters. So, either that upper half of Greenshade is a bit overtuned or it's supposed to be hard because you are coming to the end of the zone quest chain. Maybe the latter is the answer here, but man I have to admin it owned me.

I just finished VR3 Greenshades, and I think that it was the area too.

Yankee · June 2014

Spectrasoul wrote: »

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Congratz. Yours is the first post I ever flagged for just being too offensive.

Some of us where just having a civil discussion.

Fyrakin · June 2014

Mithlob wrote: »

If switching skills is an issue there are addons that make to so you can swap full sets with a click of a button. However, the fact that the very idea of switching skills for particular mobs or setting up a default defensive or "anything could happen bar" says VR content is not for you. Also due to crafting every green,blue, and purple item is an upgrade because you can deconstruct and make a rare weapon/armor of your choosing.

VR zones (Caldwel's silver and gold) is just an extension of leveling. You get nothing special by questing or exploring there (the difficulty is not justified by adequate rewards). The purpose of these areas is to fill in xp for additional levels and let all of the players experience opposing faction stories. This is a solo content after all, I want enjoyable fun experience from story. I find it difficult to achieve by going into VR zones. Learn to play argument is silly to say the least, really. After 2 months of live game and several beta sessions I am credible to say I know how to play.

LariahHunding · June 2014

Spectrasoul wrote: »

4) Unfair AI - Yes it's hard, but it's sometimes unfairly hard. When you've got 2 casters and the melee charging attacks at the same time, how are you supposed to block or interrupt them all? One missed interrupt on a healer is almost certain death because they will just wear you down while they're back up to full HP.

Anyone else run into the two healers healing each other that are damn near unkillable.

Yankee · June 2014

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Spectrasoul wrote: »

4) Unfair AI - Yes it's hard, but it's sometimes unfairly hard. When you've got 2 casters and the melee charging attacks at the same time, how are you supposed to block or interrupt them all? One missed interrupt on a healer is almost certain death because they will just wear you down while they're back up to full HP.

Anyone else run into the two healers healing each other that are damn near unkillable.

Yes. I have had to go farm up my ultimate and come back to that crazy combination. They have unlimited Magicka versus my very finite pool.

Fyrakin · June 2014

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Spectrasoul wrote: »

4) Unfair AI - Yes it's hard, but it's sometimes unfairly hard. When you've got 2 casters and the melee charging attacks at the same time, how are you supposed to block or interrupt them all? One missed interrupt on a healer is almost certain death because they will just wear you down while they're back up to full HP.

Anyone else run into the two healers healing each other that are damn near unkillable.

I ran into 3 healers a few times, yes tehre are encounters like that and if you don't ult ready and "right" skills ready for them you're dead.

Alphashado · June 2014

I am getting tired of the L2P crowd. Guess what? I know how to play and I still hate VR content in it's current state. I don't want every single experience with a trash mob to be a death defying affair.

Leave the insanely challenging content to dungeons and group objectives.

All of you L2P jerks are going to be playing a DEAD game very shortly if VR trash mobs are not toned down.

GreasedLizard · June 2014

Fyrakin wrote: »

VR zones (Caldwel's silver and gold) is just an extension of leveling. You get nothing special by questing or exploring there (the difficulty is not justified by adequate rewards). The purpose of these areas is to fill in xp for additional levels and let all of the players experience opposing faction stories. This is a solo content after all, I want enjoyable fun experience from story. I find it difficult to achieve by going into VR zones. Learn to play argument is silly to say the least, really. After 2 months of live game and several beta sessions I am credible to say I know how to play.

missing the ~6 skill points per map. Many quest rewards end up having good traits, instead of the absolute flood of Sturdy, Well-Fitted, Reinforced garbage you get everywhere else

Fyrakin · June 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting tired of the L2P crowd. Guess what? I know how to play and I still hate VR content in it's current state. I don't want every single experience with a trash mob to be a death defying affair.

Leave the insanely challenging content to dungeons and group objectives.

All of you L2P jerks are going to be playing a DEAD game very shortly if VR trash mobs are not toned down.

I agree. I don't want to play a dead game, if there are no more players to play with I'm gone.

Spectrasoul · June 2014

Yankee wrote: »

Congratz. Yours is the first post I ever flagged for just being too offensive.

Some of us where just having a civil discussion.

You poor little delicate snowflake.

Yankee · June 2014

Wavemoore wrote: »

UPDATE: I've since moved on to the VR9 area, and I'm seeing what I would expect to be "normal" levels of damage from both archers and casters. So, either that upper half of Greenshade is a bit overtuned or it's supposed to be hard because you are coming to the end of the zone quest chain. Maybe the latter is the answer here, but man I have to admin it owned me.

Thanks for the feedback. I always thought (and it seemed true so far) that the mobs were the same difficulty throughout a VR zone. It never seemed to matter which end I started at.

I hope you /feedback that area of Greenshade because that is not right.

GreasedLizard · June 2014

they said the change wasn't retro to mobs. If people have been lv in Craglorn and not attacking packs, they could still be the 'OP version' until next spawn

Also noticed this in Eastmarch (v4?) after deciding to finish Cad Silver off. Some packs of 3 were giving me a harder time than a v11 four pack

Mithlob · June 2014

You guys REALLY need to make a thread posting your build and asking "I have x encounter, based off my build what should I do". Because most of the time it can all be done by one or two ability swaps. I never see people using the Nightblade or Sorceror 15+ disorient, I never see templars using eclipse that makes casters kill themselves, and numerous other abilities that are very situational but make it a breeze. I really do hate saying I really do but in a lot of your guys cases it is user error just admit it.

NerfEverything · June 2014

I don't mind difficult VR mobs. In fact, I wish they had started making things difficult around level 35.

But as a Templar, I can play perfectly, literally max DPS possible while blocking and interrupting, and still have a decent chance of dieing to mobs 3 levels below me. Before the VR buff I could make a couple mistakes and usually live. Now, even with no mistakes, it is a crapshoot.

Fyrakin · June 2014

Mithlob wrote: »

You guys REALLY need to make a thread posting your build and asking "I have x encounter, based off my build what should I do". Because most of the time it can all be done by one or two ability swaps. I never see people using the Nightblade or Sorceror 15+ disorient, I never see templars using eclipse that makes casters kill themselves, and numerous other abilities that are very situational but make it a breeze. I really do hate saying I really do but in a lot of your guys cases it is user error just admit it.

I don't usually look what others do, I don't have interest/time to do that (I don't care tbh). What I know is what I do myself, I prepare for each type of encounter if i'm not lagging out I'm fine. Sometimes I get killed before I know I ran into encounter (doesn't happen too often to complain). What I'm not happy with is that overall gameplay in not enjoyable, on one side of scales you have an amazing story, on another you have a huge challenging legion of trash to deal with. You should understand where the scales get more weight. What I'm saying is that game has to be fun and enjoyable to play in order to keep players here. Will you still be playing it if there won't be other players to play with? I know I won't.

Fyrakin · June 2014

Yankee wrote: »

gougefub17_ESO wrote: »

Spectrasoul wrote: »

4) Unfair AI - Yes it's hard, but it's sometimes unfairly hard. When you've got 2 casters and the melee charging attacks at the same time, how are you supposed to block or interrupt them all? One missed interrupt on a healer is almost certain death because they will just wear you down while they're back up to full HP.

Anyone else run into the two healers healing each other that are damn near unkillable.

Yes. I have had to go farm up my ultimate and come back to that crazy combination. They have unlimited Magicka versus my very finite pool.

5-6 special attacks player side versus infinite speciall attacks npc side isn't fair at all. Not to mention the fact that player special/weapon attacks are not as strong as npc attacks are, usually health of VR npcs is higher than any player can have. Its like a fight between player and a cheater.

Esha76 · June 2014

@ Fyrakin - Every point exactly. Also, I was in that same exact Alikr Dwemer solo dungeon about 1 - 2 hours ago and I got torn - The F - Up as well.

I don't want to hear any of the L2P stuff myself. I have been playing this game since the 2nd weekend of beta. I really embraced it, spent every beta weekend giving feedback as I wanted this to succeed. In the process, I learned my class better. It has turned out the I am one of the "go to" guys for questions in my guilds. Not an expert, but much better than average. I'm about to hit VR9 on my main, VR3 on my 1st alt, and the main has been a nightmare in high end VR zones.

Funny enough, the OP started having significant problems in EP VR8 zone - Greenshade. My AD main, a Nightblade of all classes, soloed all solo content with minimal issues all the way to Rivenspire. AD's VR8 zone. She got owned by everything including 3 skeevers. In 50+ levels I never had so much trouble as I did in Rivenspire VR8. Perhaps something is off in the VR8 NPCs math ratios? Idk.....

So, after dying my way through Rivenspire I finally got into Alikr and noticed things seemed a little more balanced, but not all. Certain encounters were still ridiculously OP. Such as the Leki's Blade pupils you have to fight for example. Three at once literally killed me in seconds. Took like 4 or 5 tries and a lot of luck to get past that stage of the quest. Infuriating. Had to rage-choke the cat.

In VR8 and 9 zones I also have noticed I lose 20% to even 30% health while blocking! (Yes, plenty of stamina) Especially those thrown daggers, blocking those I lose about 30% health each time. Absolutely unacceptable. This includes wearing heavy as well (I learned long ago it's a good idea to be trained up in at least the first three skills of all armors). I know how to balance armor to max all traits without going way into orvercharge. Oh, this also includes three set bonuses. Two of which give me an extra 100 armor each. Still getting crushed on blocking.

This is already way too long, and there are so many posts and points in this thread I feel ZoS really needs to pay attention to. Especially those healers. You can have them down to 1/4 health and if your interrupt is off by a second, they're back to full health almost instantly.

If the target market is the hard core gamers who love the most difficult content possible, then ZoS is headed on track. If that's the case, I for one will not be renewing my subscription.

LariahHunding · June 2014

Mithlob wrote: »

You guys REALLY need to make a thread posting your build and asking "I have x encounter, based off my build what should I do". Because most of the time it can all be done by one or two ability swaps. I never see people using the Nightblade or Sorceror 15+ disorient, I never see templars using eclipse that makes casters kill themselves, and numerous other abilities that are very situational but make it a breeze. I really do hate saying I really do but in a lot of your guys cases it is user error just admit it.

Man, keep flogging that dead horse. A well-rounded character shouldn't have to tinker with skill lines. It tedious and time consuming. I'm sure that you are correct with the technical details, but you are missing the overriding factor is that this crap affects the enjoyment of game for some most of us, but, I admit, not all.

Casual players will move on from the game.

Personally, I could live with it in if VR levels had a purpose other the leveling. Can't even enjoy the content because of this crap.

NerfEverything wrote: »

I don't mind difficult VR mobs. In fact, I wish they had started making things difficult around level 35.

But as a Templar, I can play perfectly, literally max DPS possible while blocking and interrupting, and still have a decent chance of dieing to mobs 3 levels below me. Before the VR buff I could make a couple mistakes and usually live. Now, even with no mistakes, it is a crapshoot.

Strong classes like DK and Sorcs, would haven't noticed this blip to them.

However, this was a huge hit to NB and Temps who live on the edge.

runagate · June 2014

People, you needn't let these trolls confuse the issue. I am not complaining about the general difficult of the Veteran content. I am reporting something that is broken, and they are simply griefing you.

The screenshot I posted displays something that isn't even possible according to their argument, as I could basically just stand there and laugh at mobs 20' away, whereas I could stun one of these 2 Covenant mobs from stealth and suddenly I'm dead like a bomb went off. I am not complaining I'm unable to progress in the game. I am reporting that certain, seemingly random content, is repeatably and provably bugged. I'm doing so on these toxic forums because I happened to notice the conversation in progress. Certainly there's plenty of mobs that are bugged in different ways, too, for instance certain ones you'll always come across unmoving and at half health with whom you can't interact, always in the same place, but that wasn't the topic of this thread.

I most assuredly don't need to "l2p" - the next time you're at a dolmen in EP zones and you see someone standing between two Dread Harvesters bothering to interrupt their special attacks, it's probably me. I've played both Temp sword and board and NB to Veteran levels precisely because I've no interest in button-mashing, faceroll grinding. If I weren't specifically trying to figure out what's broken I certainly wouldn't be standing around Stros M'kai at VR 9 mowing down newbie mobs looking for the bugged ones.