There is a funny 'bug' when you have more then one item with Divine on it.
Take off all armor EXCEPT one piece with Divine and compare it to when you are wearing many pieces.

Each extra piece with Divine does not ADD as you would expect it to
Also the Thief stone is bugged too (does not show on your stats, either it does nothing at all, or its a display issue). So use another mundus stone to compare. Best one is the +100 magic one so you can see exactly what the Divines traits is doing.

Natjur wrote: »

There is a funny 'bug' when you have more then one item with Divine on it.
Take off all armor EXCEPT one piece with Divine and compare it to when you are wearing many pieces.

Each extra piece with Divine does not ADD as you would expect it to
Also the Thief stone is bugged too (does not show on your stats, either it does nothing at all, or its a display issue). So use another mundus stone to compare. Best one is the +100 magic one so you can see exactly what the Divines traits is doing.

Yea, I noticed the stone is buggy too, but I fixed it by getting another mundus stone and then switching back to Theif stone. Even though that fixes the Theif stone, the Divines trait still doesn't work

Natjur wrote: »

There is a funny 'bug' when you have more then one item with Divine on it.
Take off all armor EXCEPT one piece with Divine and compare it to when you are wearing many pieces.

Each extra piece with Divine does not ADD as you would expect it to
Also the Thief stone is bugged too (does not show on your stats, either it does nothing at all, or its a display issue). So use another mundus stone to compare. Best one is the +100 magic one so you can see exactly what the Divines traits is doing.

Are you saying that one piece of Divines works but any more than one does not add anything?

I was just about to post on this as I was testing a full suit of Divines with Shadow for Crit Damage and when I compared full suit with Divines to full suit without Divines there was literally maybe a 3-5 at most average damage increase on Crits.

If what you say is true that makes sense.

Going from Thief to Mage, I could see the crit removed from weapon crit %. (Was no change in spell crit %)

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

It's also a wasted trait because it's multiplicative not additive. That's why the results seem so low because they are that low.

What exactly do you mean by multiplicative instead of additive? If the Divines trait is giving +4% on a stone ability for each piece, and you've got 7 pieces is the math like this:
Mundus Stone Ability X 1.04 X 1.04 X 1.04 X 1.04 X 1.04 X 1.04 X 1.04
Or is it like this:
Mundus Stone Ability X 1.28
If the base stone ability adds +100 to a stat, the first method would end up effectively adding 139.59 to the stat, while the second would end up effectively adding 128 to the stat. Which way does it work? Or is it a different way entirely?

One of the Dev green posts said that they confirmed The Thief is working, but it isn't displaying correctly after you zone or something like that. It does display correctly when you first get it. So I would switch to a different stone, and then get The Thief again and see if you armor is working as expected.

I added mundus stone effect and noticed after about 15% stack the diminishing is terrible. Something like .2 gains.

Yeh you have to do the trait formula from the bonus of the mundus stone. So a magicka mundus buff of 100 magicka with 15% stacked mundus trait is 15% of that 100 magicka....15 more magicka lol. Many people think its 15% trait of total pool of crit or health, etc.

Thechemicals wrote: »

Yeh you have to do the trait formula from the bonus of the mundus stone. So a magicka mundus buff of 100 magicka with 15% stacked mundus trait is 15% of that 100 magicka....15 more magicka lol. Many people think its 15% trait of total pool of crit or health, etc.

Right so I should be getting an additional 3% crit chance and I'm not. I have Divines on all my armor totaling +40.5% increase in the mundus stone effect. The theif stone increases crit chance by 7.3%. So 7.3 * 0.405 = 2.96 which rounds up to 3.

However, I don't get the 3% increase (or at least it is not shown)

All I know is that with Thief Stone, if I equip some divine trait armor where I previously had none, my crit chance increases on my character sheet.

RomedyMC wrote: »

This thread may be helpful:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99523/divines-vs-infused-a-comprehensive-study#latest

TL;DR - Divines appears to be subtractive in nature, meaning it is just not a good idea (with the exception of special cases) to ever uses Divines on armor.

The mage stone is the primary example in that thread.

Stones like the Thief/Shadow/Atronach are now working as intended, but, assuming the subtractive model is correct, you will not see a significant increase beyond one piece.

Thanks for the link. After reading that thread it still seems like Divines has a place in this game for effects that are not enchantments like magic boosters. In my case I am looking for additional crit chance which can't be enchanted on armor so infused would not help me.

I'm not sure... it would be nice to have more clarification

SinfulSoul wrote: »

A dev stated just a few days ago that the Thief stone is bugged but it's ONLY a visual bug. Once you get it for the first time it will show the proper effect, but once you leave the zone or die/relog that effect will no longer show in your character sheet. It is only visual tho, and the effect is still there.

They said that it'll be fixed in an upcoming future patch.

But even when the theif stone boost is showing it still doesn't show an increase because of the Divines trait effect. You would think the divines trait effect would at least show when the theif stone effect shows... unless it just never shows.

@RomedyMC‌
How did your source come up with the subtraction method? It doesn't make any sense to me why that would be the case. I could understand subtracting the boost from the boosted number, but you are subtracting the boost from the original number making the diminishing returns.

If it truly works like that I would assume that is not working as intended. I am looking to use divines on all 7 peices and I get 7.3% crit boost from theives instead of your suggested 5% in your example. When I do the math I get about 3% crit boost which is good enough for me because I am already soft capped at max magicka anyway.

My conclusion is if it truly works with diminishing returns and gives me less than 3% crit boost then Divines probably isn't worth it. I could play around with infused to boost other stats, but if they fix it to where I can get at least a 3% crit boost I would probably still go with Divines.

@RomedyMC‌
I get 7.3% crit from just the theif stone. It might differ based on level. I currently get no boost from the divines trait though unless it is just not showing on my character sheet.