Wolfshead wrote: »

tanthil wrote: »

Elirienne wrote: »

I genuinely wonder. In every other MMO that I know, I understand. WoW fun really starts at max level. But this game? Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits. This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

and if WoW had no endgame would you also tell all the wow players to slow down and "not get to max level" like you do these players? or would tell blizzard their game is in a broken state?

pretty sure i know your answer and thats a double standard and i have no idea why you would take zenimaxs side.

Also on the same scenario i made up of WoW having no endgame.. well hey, they have tonnes and tonnes of questing zones that you could just force everyone to complete every last bit to get to max level (nobody likes being able to choose a path while leveling,we actually want ALL the content forced down our throats) and then put 10 more fake levels on top of it all and make everyone level through the opposings factions quests too just so they dont get to the point were they see theres no end game right?

P.S this is an MMO IT NEEDS ENDGAME

Its a subscription based MMO it cant be all questing, now they promised new content every 4-6weeks, so lets say honestly we get it every 7weeks(this is probably being generous as the first update which was obviously well into design pre launch took 7weeks and obviously this game does not have as many subs(revenue) now as they expected when stating 4-6weeks)... assume that's a new zone like craglorn, is that 2months ($30) worth of playability?... even though the next content update is rumored to be 1-2 VR dungeons (no questing zone!!!!!)

Well to be honest when WoW come out in 2004 the game did not have much of end game at all most lvl 60 back then was sit around in Org and SW most of the time and if i reminder right it took blizzard 6 month before the add any real end game content but back them people was do other thing like PvP and carft or just chatting but now as soon a new mmo don't have end game content people scream it is broken it more like people have be spoil by fact a game should have end game content.

But most people expect new mmo should have everything from start which most people by now should know that will never happen no mmo have everything from start how fun would that then people would come to forum whine about the are not add anything new to game instead.

TESO came out in 2014 and is one of the first few hundred MMO's released

WOW came out in 2004 and was one of the first few MMO's released

holding their releases to the same standards just proves how far behind this game is in terms of an MMO content wise

You know what? this game HAS TO COMPETE against other MMO's that are currently out there right now to have any chance so wtf does "soon a new mmo don't have end game content people scream it is broken it more like people have be spoil by fact a game should have end game content." mean?

Can basically say the same thing that if a new burger shop comes out and they dont put their burgers in buns for the first 6months that,that is ok? that's your logic.. guess what? everyone is going to eat some were else

There is endgame content, it is called pvp. The other new endgame content is Stopwatch raiding.
Both are better done at max level, but the reason for rushing is most likely pvp.
Also a AvA probably never makes whine about there being no content...

Elirienne wrote: »

I genuinely wonder. In every other MMO that I know, I understand. WoW fun really starts at max level. But this game? Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits. This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

There are lots of reasons why people play as they do, and I cannot speak for them.

As for myself, I recreated my dragonknight character from beta in early access and took it to VR6. No rush, enjoying the scenery, dialogue, and storyline.

Then I played a week or so in the Alliance War. I decided it might be fun to have another character/class available to play as for that war for variety and perspective -- to try something different.

So, having already played some content twice (beta and early access/post-release) and all of it once for my alliance (completionist here), the only thing that was novel for my new character was making alternate dialogue choices. I did slow down for those, and I did/do listen to the complete voice acting for the first character. I love the world of the Elder Scrolls and being a part of its epic tales of depravity and valor.

But honestly in regard to my second character I just wanted to get it to veteran rank to see how it played at higher levels of more challenging content and in AvA battles. Speeding through 1-50 still took a bit of time but I already knew where everything was, what was happening and why, and what to do, with no compelling reason to take it slow. So if by chance you happened to see my new character zipping through a quest(line) or zone recently that is why. I can also see a potential reason, therefore, to grind up a couple of veteran ranks in Craglorn, especially if the reports of continuing exaggerated VR difficulty are true. Haven't tried that yet, but it doesn't seem so unreasonable to me in such a case.

I wouldn't call it a rush...just more playtime than others. Still a completionist and still made it to VR12 in a rather short time, and all I can say is....meh...

The game ended when you fought Molag Bal. There is no immersion past 50. And the "endgame" of craglorn and the trials? what a joke. If that is their idea of "endgame" they are in serious trouble. ESO isn't bad for a F2P game.....just sad they still think it is valuable enough to have a sub for....their players disagree, if they haven't noticed with the subs dropping like flies.

Enjoy the game....after 50 there is nothing left.

The game is bad for a F2P game, after Molag there isnt much except pvp.
Where do you want to monetize? in PVP? = p2win
Veteran Leveling?
I dont know, a game needs something people want to do at the end and are willing to spend. A solo 1-50 game does not cut it. Veteran content can be consumed with twinks, so what is left?

Jeremy wrote: »

Ok forget WoW then. Compare this game to other more recent releases such as SWTOR or Final Fantasy 14. Because this game's launch was 100 times better than either of those.

rofl

FFXIV was the biggest westernification release failure ever. (that's why they shut down the game and did a RE launch...)
SWTOR is the biggest let down of this decade. a static and boring copy/paste of WoW into the SW universe who, right after launch, kept loosing players months after months to the point they went F2P...

Not sure you picked the most relevent exemples... think you actually picked the only 2 that could help your point... or are you suggesting a relaunch ?... or to go F2P ?

renaud.moyneb16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Ok forget WoW then. Compare this game to other more recent releases such as SWTOR or Final Fantasy 14. Because this game's launch was 100 times better than either of those.

rofl

FFXIV was the biggest westernification release failure ever. (that's why they shut down the game and did a RE launch...)
SWTOR is the biggest let down of this decade. a static and boring copy/paste of WoW into the SW universe who, right after launch, kept loosing players months after months to the point they went F2P...

Not sure you picked the most relevent exemples... think you actually picked the only 2 that could help your point... or are you suggesting a relaunch ?... or to go F2P ?

Of course they are relevant examples. The fact they don't support your claim doesn't make them irrelevant.

And I was referring to the RE launch of Final Fantasy 14. Elder Scrolls went much smoother than that did as well. To say nothing of the first.

The bottom line is even when compared to more recent MMO releases, Elder Scrolls managed its launch quite well. So I don't think criticisms in this regard are fair.

Elirienne wrote: »

I genuinely wonder. In every other MMO that I know, I understand. WoW fun really starts at max level. But this game? Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits. This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

---

*High-Fives Elirienne!

Sadly, I do not think most of those who purposely rushed to endgame were not aware of what was, at that point there. Or perhaps they find it difficult to read and also had RUSH-ITIS, give-me-it-now, I'm-in-a-hurry-don't-you-see-that-and-this-can't-be-good-if-it-takes-more-than-a-few-minutes-of-focus/reading/researching/discussing. So, some didn't pay attention to the pre-launch information that abounded about the game both from Zenimax and many awesome fansites online.

Its pretty obvious they desire to have what IS TESO's endgame currently CHANGED to their preferred "type" of endgame. Since it is not the same-oh, same-oh or not what they are most used to getting satisfaction from, they are angry. They seek to literally take the designers' obvious original vision and CHANGE it, RIGHT NOW. Not gonna happen; and they pretty much know that so some are feeling out of control and want a platform to express their angst.

This is NOT to say there are bugs and fixes and changes that should be and ARE being worked on actively by Zeni as the game continues to roll forward each day. I do understand -- I've been in literally probably 75% or more, of mmo's released since 1999, because its fun for part of my free time. I like mmo's a lot, consoles to a less extent but I also have lots of other things going on in my life. I usually dedicate my playtime to one mmo at a time though, not several simultaneously.

SO much of the same types of issues are present in every single mmo release. Some of the last conversations I had with friends right before official launch was how in these last few years, although each game has some similar 'growing pains', there are always some percentage of players who want what they want RIGHT NOW, and HOW THEY WANT IT...and will declare that this is the worse launch/mmo/dev team ever within a month of it starting.

Does anyone REALLY BELIEVE none of these types of problems were experienced by players in the last three years of new mmo launches? Very disingenuous. Patently untrue also. I sometimes wonder what THIS population of discontents would think about having literally ZERO chat/text AT ALL inside ANY main city/town with banks etc BECAUSE OF THE GOLD SELLING BOTS. That is what happened during the first three months or so of FFXIV ARR, to use just one example.

You can only imagine how new people just getting out of the tutorial areas felt seeing other players running around but having NO open zone chat because no one wanted to use it BECAUSE of the GOLD SELLING SPAMMERS getting your name as soon as you said a single word and spamming you forevermore. And the ability to "ignore" the gold seller spam in your tell-box was not reasonably simple but rather took several different sub menu's to do. So as a result, people just didn't talk if they weren't in a guild etc. In fact the Gold Sellers also would 'park' player characters at each exit/entrance to the cities - had names like "&&HYKSIe#okr. Then anytime you zoned in they captured your name quickly and started spamming you that way too.

This was later addressed to a certain extent by the game devs, but not really completely to the satisfaction of many players, it still seemed inconvenient, but did lessen by a few months into the game. Just giving you an example -- the forums there were FILLED to capacity with "You are the WORSE devs ever, You Do Not Communicate with your player base, You don't care about x, x and x imbalances blah blah blah. Not to mention, "It needs to be fixed NOW, not a month from now, you're useless, your mmo is crap etc etc."

Using phrases like: "This is the WORSE, has the MOST bugs, has the most HORRIBLE communication from staff, the Bots are the absolute most numerous ... in ANY MMO TO DATE... is also trite and so redundant. Expressing frustration is normal; jumping on a bandwagon is just herd mentality. If you aren't enjoying it, give your suggestions that are helpful then stop playing. Come back and check it out later, or not. Its your entertainment time. You don't HAVE to. Okay?

Thing is, I and many others were not only looking forward to the creation of a game within the general theme of ESO settings, but ALSO THE DIFFERENT VISION, the different choices devs made sprinkled throughout Tamriel that would make playing this mmo a LITTLE different, not the status quo we'd all played a zillion times before.

I like variety and change. I also value some familiarity of mechanics and techniques when going into a new mmo. TESO has both, plus its gorgeous and I like the humor as well. I am loving it, holding out positive thoughts and being patient for the continuing fixes staff is currently working on to refine and tune up some things, and feel happy that during my entertainment hours I can choose to play a game that is challenging in different ways, and offers enough differences to me as a player that makes me grin every now and again.

GreySix wrote: »

Have never played WoW, other than the starter edition (which didn't get me interested enough to subscribe), so what is the end-game that MMO offers that keeps folks returning?

WALL OF TEXT WARNING! SORRY!

It's whole new game once you hit cap in that game. I admit I quit years ago but it kept me logging on for 7 years or so. Why?

- PuG based BG PvP with many different maps and player numbers. Alterac Valley was always my favorite even after they nerfed it. Some my fav moments came from those insane week long battles in AV that went on and on...epic.
- Competitive based BG PvP, much same as other but with a rating system.
- Arena based PvP with varying player vs player counts (2v2, 3v3, etc). Has rating system and gears to earn.
- Open world PvP both available on PvP and PvE servers. Hillsbrad vs TM scrums, anyone?
- Large scale server based PvP BG type zones.
- Usually 7 or so 5 man regular dungeons at start of the expansion all with their own unique loot.
- 5 man hardmode dungeons, same as regular but with harder encounters and better loots.
- Raids...this is end goal for PvEers in most part. There is regular versions and hardmodes. Also has different amounts of players allowed. 12-24 man? It would be difficult to explain it all, look it up if you do not know. There is always lots of stuff for raiders to throw themselves at...often times months of work just to beat some. They also add new stuff every few months usually. People who dislike wow and such usually claim raiding is easy but I am under the impression most them use reg raids as basis for that assumption. Last time I played, HM raids were most certainly not 'easy'.
- token systems for all above so you can buy vendor gears to help alleviate frustration if RNG hates you on drops.
- open world bosses.
- Daily quests with their own rewards and perks.
- Reputation grinds which usually involve daily quests that also give nice rewards, pets, etc.
- Pet battles?
- Exploration? If you add up all land mass in that game, it's probably the largest MMO out there. It's massive, seemless with next to no loading, and makes ESO look like a grain of sand on a beach in comparison. Not that most of the non-expansion ares matters to a level capped player but still; lots to see.
- 1000s of achieves.
- Low level PvP on alts since it has it's own brackets.
- Play the AH.
- Grind mobs for cash/loot.
- Solo content...like say previous expansion raids for kicks or just cash.
- Group content out the wazzo.
- Tons of holiday events, some are kinda lame but many are quite the big deal and offer nifty rewards.
- Cross server group and raid finder, a REAL one. This is a hot topic though some hate, some don't.

These are just some of the things in that game that are all for level capped players. Leveling has it's own content as well too so no worries there either.

Now I know people are going to chime in and say "Well, gee! It's an old game with a decade of content! ESO can't compete with that! Go back to WoW!"

Problem with that argument is that if you want to beat the competition and take their subs then you will have to field something either equally as complex/fun or near. Right? Look at all the failed MMOs since, which is most of them and tell me that's not true?

Most die hard MMO players I know usually just want to get to the level cap then start gearing up for tailor made level cap PvE and PvP content then go at it. That's if the game offers a deep end game....however....

Lastly, I dun wanna just sit here actin like a WoW fan boy since I never plan on going back b/c it's....10 years old and looks it + I played it for a long long time but w/e. /wash hands

Anyways, I will sum up my options when I log in to ESO:

- Zerg PvP in Cyrodil
- Grind mobs for money
- Spend that money on fixing up gear sets
- Tackle trials if I ever find a nice group of people to try with (not lookin good since it's seemingly dead on my faction).
- Tackle the craglorn small group dungeons/content (once or twice)

And....well....that's about it.

Unless things really improve, I expect many will migrate back to their previous MMOs or new ones. At this time, ESO just isn't what I am looking for I guess at least in a costly P2P title; there isn't much beyond 'questing' which I personally don't enjoy all that much. Questing is a means to the end ie. get exp, level, and sell every crummy reward and loots gained to the vendor.

Zeni has 2 months of my time, I hope they can impress however after this craglorn patch I am def not so sure about that. Crag is pretty disappointing imo.

I hope ESO succeeds, it is based off one my favorite RPG series ever after all so I am not a total hater...I think. I just want...more? Better? A MMO worthy of a sub fee? Stuff to do that makes me want to log in on a regular basis like it should be? Something!

Please?

iuki wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Have never played WoW, other than the starter edition (which didn't get me interested enough to subscribe), so what is the end-game that MMO offers that keeps folks returning?

Zeni has 2 months of my time, I hope they can impress however after this craglorn patch I am def not so sure about that. Crag is pretty disappointing imo.

Please?

The adventure zones sounded like a very cool concept to me - at least on paper. Could you give some details as to why it's been do disappointing for you? I'm genuinely interested ^^

I have absolutely no problem with people rushing to the level cap. Everyone can play the game how they like.
However, I guess do have a bit of a problem with those that do so and then complain bitterly that there's nothing to do when they get there. That just seems completely nonsensical to me. Why rush through the game's content only to get to the end and complain there's no more content?

I personally do not really consider questing as content: it makes you do the same stuff over and over. There is only a handful of types of quests. It don't matter to me what the NPC says when it comes down to it since I know exactly what it will ask of me and usually what I get out of it too.

ie. go here, click that, kill this, and at end is a mini boss(s) for the reward of: some exp, pocket change, and a crappy item that is automatically vendor/salvage bait. Sooo exciting! /rolleyes

Don't misunderstand me, I don't hate questing generally when it comes to MMOS or any game for that matter; it's all about the presention and the world it's in that matters. I don't believe in this world when it comes right down to it. Jimmy the cat wants me to go kill this NPC a stones throw away and I have to listen to him babble for 5+ mins when the quests are so simple? Plus the fact I have been doing these almost exact same quest formula for well over a decade...meh. I'd really like one these new MMOs to surprise me one day. /pray

iuki wrote: »

I personally do not really consider questing as content: it makes you do the same stuff over and over. There is only a handful of types of quests. It don't matter to me what the NPC says when it comes down to it since I know exactly what it will ask of me and usually what I get out of it too.

ie. go here, click that, kill this, and at end is a mini boss(s) for the reward of: some exp, pocket change, and a crappy item that is automatically vendor/salvage bait. Sooo exciting! /rolleyes

Don't misunderstand me, I don't hate questing generally when it comes to MMOS or any game for that matter; it's all about the presention and the world it's in that matters. I don't believe in this world when it comes right down to it. Jimmy the cat wants me to go kill this NPC a stones throw away and I have to listen to him babble for 5+ mins when the quests are so simple? Plus the fact I have been doing these almost exact same quest formula for well over a decade...meh. I'd really like one these new MMOs to surprise me one day. /pray

Not sure why you would bother with an RPG game if you don't consider questing as content.

That being said, I do agree the quests need to be interesting and involve exploring something cool and killing something challenging. I don't care for repetitive and boring quests either. But this game does a good job at making quests fun - at least in my opinion - as they often have interesting story lines and characters with plenty of fighting and exploring to go along with it. And I was hoping Craglorn would give me the chance to do some of this with friends.

Elirienne wrote: »

I genuinely wonder. In every other MMO that I know, I understand. WoW fun really starts at max level. But this game? Why in the world would anyone want to rush to the end game (and by this I mean vr12)? There is nothing there! No major, epic, all-expansion-length-awaited superboss, no real new challenge compared to leveling, no real gearing options over and above what is being presented through leveling, no house, no wife/husband, no kingdom awaits. This game IS the leveling, the questing, the stories, why are you rushing to the end?

I'm rushing for the only fact that I'm being charged a monthly fee and want to get through as much content as possible. If the game was B2P, I would play it like every other Elder Scrolls game. I would talk and listen to everyone, enjoy the landscape, explore more, group more often with people looking for a healer in dungeon. I would be more helpful rather than be more focused on getting through the content.

Am nowhere near the vet levels on any character, and from the sounds of it - there's no reason to get there.