GeeYouWhy wrote: »

In the end there is only one true class - the DK.

captain_awesome wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Okay. So if Templars can heal better than DK's how does it make sense for both the classes to have comparable dps? It is the same argument all of you are using but reversed. So do dk's require more heals or...

How about you use your brain and accept the fact balance does not mean your class is the best at everything.

Pathetic.

Yes Templar's can heal. No suprise there! How about you use your brain?

Templars can Heal. But! They cant Heal + perform another function at the same time.

DK can Tank + dps + aoe CC + self heal at the same time.

Accept the fact that your class out performs all the other classes at everything and ask for some class balance.

Pathetic... -see what I did there?

The butthurt is strong with this one.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

except that templars bring 2 things to the table that other healers dont. and thats breath of life and practiced incantation. a sorc with dark exchange has a near unlimited magika pool for resto stick skills and can buff the heals with surge. and is far better dps when not healing.

a nightblade has an unlimited magika pool with the siphoning strikes line. and several other hots to stack. so you bring 1 along for hot spamming.

so basically its a question of do i need the 3 breath of lifes a templar can cast before going oom. or should i just fill that spot with more dps and since we know that templar dps is abysmal .....

Without regen or potions i can cast 6-7.

With regen+pots I can pretty much spam it.

Templars arent great, but you don't need to exaggerate to make your point.

Wont lie, if im in a trial, i'll take a nightblade over a templar dps, at least nightblades have good execute damage and utility skills. Templars are only decent for healing on the move.

Haven't really done much but i thought Luminous Shards was loved for the Stamina/magicka lovin? Couple that with Radiant aura and you are boosting health and stamina regen for the whole team..What is this about a 6500+ power?????

All you people being whiny about low Templar DPS and subsequently not including them in your groups are the exact reason I quit WoW. I guess I won't be playing with you idiots here, either.

Eorea wrote: »

All you people being whiny about low Templar DPS and subsequently not including them in your groups are the exact reason I quit WoW. I guess I won't be playing with you idiots here, either.

I really don't think they are being whiney. Some players approach the group composition as if they were a serious business concern rather than an entertaining game. They see they have only so many possible slots and want to fill those slots for the greatest return. In the trials it is a competitive environment and those who go for that sort of competition want to win. Winning is important to them. Experience has demonstrated that templars and nightblades are currently less-than-optimal so those classes are no longer considered. They won't be considered until those classes are competitive with DKs and Sorcs. Gameplay for these is nothing personal.

There are surely people who are focused more on the players than the characters and who approach the game as something to enjoy with friends. Somewhere. Probably soloing.

eliisra wrote: »

And how many classes aren't getting invited as healers to full trial runs or vet10 dungeons, because they aren't Templars?

Happens to me all the time. I can only join as dps, since I'm playing a sorc. My heals are only good for first boss speed farm.

Or how many players are being denied tank spots (or any freaking spot), because they aren't a DK?

If we want perfect balance as far as dps goes, we also need balance when it comes to healing and tanking. We cant have 4 classes with equally good dps, but only one of them that can main heal. That's certainly not balanced.

Restoration Staff is good back up/AoE heal, it works for easy stuff, but still lacks sufficient tools for main healing challenging fights with spike dmg. Only a Templar can do that, only 1 class out of 4.

But I do agree that Templar dps needs a major boost, even more so than NB. Their tanking abilities could also use some polishing.

Zenimax stated many times over the last couple years that you could play the way you want to play. That it just not true later in the game.

I like to tank and i'm a templar. But i have no crowd control, so nobody will let me tank end-game, and since I cannot achieve viable DPS, healing is my ONLY choice.

Therium104 wrote: »

Wargasmo wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

ok but my point is that if you can achive the 600 dps per sec then there just butt whipes period you dont want too play with those people anyway

DPS checks in this game tend to require an average output of 700 dps per dps class. This means for every 600 dps temp you bring someone else will have to be pushing 800 dps for your raid to succeed and kill the boss. And that's IF no one does something dumb and dies or gets rng 1 shot by something.

Stacking the raid with 1.4k dps DK's means that even if 2-3 people die over the course of the fight your group might still have a shot at making the dps timer.

So... I group with the 1.4k dps DK "butt whipes" because I want to win, and I have enough of a headache dealing with people who stand in fire, backpeedle, and are too drugged up to remember raid instructions to also deal with the earnest yet unappreciated Templar who is pulling woefully substandard dps because game designers are terrible at class balance.

So do what I do. Pick up a resto staff and heal those fights. Don't embarrass yourself throwing out your back trying to push your 600 dps to 700 dps. It's not worth it until they fix the class and you're nothing but a detriment to your raid.

Okay. So if Templars can heal better than DK's how does it make sense for both the classes to have comparable dps? It is the same argument all of you are using but reversed. So do dk's require more heals or...

How about you use your brain and accept the fact balance does not mean your class is the best at everything.

Pathetic.

This is also bs. Templars do not have crowd control. They do not have Reflective Scale (which is just *** OP). Also, if you knew anything about your class, you'd realize that Dragon Knights in fact do have what is a traditional 'Healer' skill. What is this skill you might ask? Obsidian Shield. There is also Igneous Weapons. Both of these are fantastic team Buffs that pump up team damage as well as resistance for a LONG period of time and better costs than what a Templar has to pay. Additionally, the DK has a laundry list of high dps high aoe set of powers, and a long list of CC. But what Dodge, what about heals? Yes there's more. DK can heal at a magnitude MUCH stronger than anyone else on themselves, as well as apply some very strong self buffs on themselves, that move with themselves.

I could also argue the point that Sorc has great healing potential as well. The innate magicka the class gets, along with amazing crowd control, and some decent self healing buffs from Dark are nice. Throw in their higher magnitude powers and a healing staff you've already got a truly great healer. Now add on a team buffing Shield from the class.

Need I go on? The big difference between Templar and other classes is simple, Templar abilities in general are clunky in design, and often more expensive to use with much greater limit on play (Stand only here) (Click that target on the ground over there)(Stun only one mob in that really slow aoe you just dropped). These things take more time than other classes to perform with lesser results. Its true, a Templar can be a better support healer, but its also clear that other classes can take up that role with gusto. The Restoring Light abilities don't have much in the way of Tanker morphs, considering how necessary it is to roll out of the way of some things. The smart healing causes you to at times heal someone in the party who is being stupid, meanwhile you the tank don't get the heal you need when you need it, which in turn causes a team wipe.

All this being said I really like the Templar class, and I just think a couple small tweaks would do the trick to bring them in line with the other classes. They can start by deglitching some of the moves. It seems like half my spear moves start to fire their animations then don't actually fire. That's a fix they could repair. My spear charge often sends me sailing behind an enemy, where I can't strike them, or worse, sends me over a cliff behind them. etc etc. I'm fine with Templar not having CC if it has decent crowd control, buffing and dps output to accommodate the difference. Not every Templar wants to be a healer. Some Templars want to tank, and 'play our own way'. Its the closest to being Dawnguard as you're going to get. No class in this game should be the 'one trick pony'.

People need to quit saying, "Hey it's ok, you can heal."

1. There is less need for healers then dps.
2. Not everyone wants to play a healer.
3. This is ESO, it's been stated time over time. Play the way you want. Do what you want. This is not happening. It's plain as day it's not happening.

That's not just a Templar problem. It's a problem overall. The game lacks any sane sense of balance.

Therium104 wrote: »

Wargasmo wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

ok but my point is that if you can achive the 600 dps per sec then there just butt whipes period you dont want too play with those people anyway

DPS checks in this game tend to require an average output of 700 dps per dps class. This means for every 600 dps temp you bring someone else will have to be pushing 800 dps for your raid to succeed and kill the boss. And that's IF no one does something dumb and dies or gets rng 1 shot by something.

Stacking the raid with 1.4k dps DK's means that even if 2-3 people die over the course of the fight your group might still have a shot at making the dps timer.

So... I group with the 1.4k dps DK "butt whipes" because I want to win, and I have enough of a headache dealing with people who stand in fire, backpeedle, and are too drugged up to remember raid instructions to also deal with the earnest yet unappreciated Templar who is pulling woefully substandard dps because game designers are terrible at class balance.

So do what I do. Pick up a resto staff and heal those fights. Don't embarrass yourself throwing out your back trying to push your 600 dps to 700 dps. It's not worth it until they fix the class and you're nothing but a detriment to your raid.

Okay. So if Templars can heal better than DK's how does it make sense for both the classes to have comparable dps? It is the same argument all of you are using but reversed. So do dk's require more heals or...

How about you use your brain and accept the fact balance does not mean your class is the best at everything.

Pathetic.

So DKs can only do damage? DKs dont have 3 different ability trees? DKs got Draconic Power and partly the Earthen Heart, Templar got the `Group Healing tree + couple from both other trees.

I dont see how thats a reason for the DKs to do more damage than the Templar.

Best at everything? Like the DKs are right now? Being able to solo Craglorn groups of mobs isnt overpowered? You think that should be exclusive for Sorcerer and DKs? lol...

Who is being pathetic here...?

So many things broken on the balance side of things. Starting with classes and working your way down will take a great amount of time.

Weapons are not balanced well at all. Destro Restro staff seems to be the only way to go at the moment.

Race passives and skills seem to be out of line with some being very excellent and others not so much.

The classes have balance issues.

In general they are going to need to do a full scale ptr with a decent amount of people taking part and trying many things.

The game doesn't need a full reboot but it does need a mini reboot.

They need to rework the classes, rework the weapons, and pretty much test everything in a attempt to re balance the game.

For now Templar are going to need to accept the fact that the class has some major issues. Hopefully ESO says something about it and lets players know they are aware of the issues, that would help quite down people and give them hope.

Thankfully I'm in a guild that doesn't do min/max or has ever used damage meters in any game we've played. Play what you want, spec how you want works for us. We may take a bit longer to get through a dungeon, may take a few more deaths but we get there in the end.

and this is why dps meters ruin every single mmo out there

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

You are all so cute with these comments! 1,600-3,000dps avg. Lrn 2 crit templar. I stopped using biting jabs before they needed it because there are better skills.

Even with 100% crits, thats just ***. Please demonstrate for us.