Players are no longer inviting templar damage dealers

pecheckler · May 2014

I blame the biting jabs 2 second animation/cooldown issue. When's it going to be fixed?

SirAndy · May 2014

Just use the templar exploit that deals 6500+ damage per hit, that'll show 'em ...
;-)

Axewaffle · May 2014

pecheckler wrote: »

I blame the biting jabs 2 second animation/cooldown issue. When's it going to be fixed?

Thats not the issue, and its not just templars. The only worthwhile group composition runs nothing but DK's and Sorcs. Its not that Nightblades and Templars are weak, its that they are strong.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

pecheckler wrote: »

I blame the biting jabs 2 second animation/cooldown issue. When's it going to be fixed?

what is your average dps? Because we run two Templars DPS both run 600 dps Per sec on average

Tarwin · May 2014

Create a class combo that will confuse the masses

"can you do this, can you do that?"
"umm ..... maaaaaybe"

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

Well the real issue is the fact you dont need tanks anymore thanks to the tanking nerfs.

Moonchilde · May 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Well the real issue is the fact you dont need tanks anymore thanks to the tanking nerfs.

Armor has to be looked at closely. The fact that melee characters can run around in Light armor and solo the game is a massive flaw. The basis of fantasy RPGs rely on variation of abilities. Armor should mean something, and it doesn't in this game. The only thing that means anything from armor are the passives it will give you to spam other powers.

That is ridiculous. A character in cloth should get eaten alive, but apparently physics is meaningless in Tamriel.

Pyatra · May 2014

Axewaffle wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I blame the biting jabs 2 second animation/cooldown issue. When's it going to be fixed?

Thats not the issue, and its not just templars. The only worthwhile group composition runs nothing but DK's and Sorcs. Its not that Nightblades and Templars are weak, its that they are strong.

Ok, I have to ask... why Sorc? I mean they can fly around with Bolt escape but that doesn't really help the party in PvE, their synergies are kinda weak, DPS can be reached by Temps and NBs just as well. So why is everyone saying Sorcs and DKs all the time. The only skill we get hate on is the most useless reason to recruit a sorc (Bolt Escape).

Thechemicals · May 2014

My templar does 750-1050 a second. People really use biting jabs after cold harbour?

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Well the real issue is the fact you dont need tanks anymore thanks to the tanking nerfs.

what tanking nerf?

Moonchilde · May 2014

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Well the real issue is the fact you dont need tanks anymore thanks to the tanking nerfs.

what tanking nerf?

They were nerfed from release, because heavy armor is meaningless. If you can tank in cloth... don't you see a problem?

Thechemicals · May 2014

Its Heavy armor+Shield blocking. The tanking skills come from blocking with a shield. Overcharged clothe or heavy can be ripped through...its the shield and the blocking skills that make you a tank.

Artemiisia · May 2014

had a vr10 tank in the group in a dungeon in Craglorn, had to give up due to the fact he were a poor tank, how do I know this, we got a lvl5 tank afterwards and we didn't have one single death.

so I agree with Thechemicals about what a tank is

Wargasmo · May 2014

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I blame the biting jabs 2 second animation/cooldown issue. When's it going to be fixed?

what is your average dps? Because we run two Templars DPS both run 600 dps Per sec on average

That's the problem. Why bring your 600 dps Templar or even your 800 dps Templar when a DK with half a brain can do 900 by bashing his head on the keyboard. Why bring the world's best 1.1k dps Templar when your average run of the mill DK does 1.2k and your big performers can shoot 2k+ dps. A great Templar is only worth a bad DK dpswise.

Have you considered healing, though? I've not had all that much trouble getting into AA or Hel Ra groups as a healer. Sure, you're fighting for one of maybe 2 spots in the raid, but if you know some people and they know you're good you'll get invites. Or if you don't perhaps consider making the group yourself. No one will think twice about joining a raid run by a temp healer. At least you're not lolnightblade.

Pyatra wrote: »

Ok, I have to ask... why Sorc? I mean they can fly around with Bolt escape but that doesn't really help the party in PvE, their synergies are kinda weak, DPS can be reached by Temps and NBs just as well. So why is everyone saying Sorcs and DKs all the time. The only skill we get hate on is the most useless reason to recruit a sorc (Bolt Escape).

People bring sorcs because they have negate, which gets rid of hostile ground effects and allows pugs to stand in fire and still win because, as pugs go, asking 12 people to get out of fire or, in this case, boulder, would be too much trouble compared with having a sorc farm ultimate with siphon and spam negate everything that drops on the ground.

It's really a situational byproduct of AA being a vastly more popular farm than Hel Ra and is geared towards making allowing players to ignore mechanics on the second fight.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

Wargasmo wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

pecheckler wrote: »

I blame the biting jabs 2 second animation/cooldown issue. When's it going to be fixed?

what is your average dps? Because we run two Templars DPS both run 600 dps Per sec on average

That's the problem. Why bring your 600 dps Templar or even your 800 dps Templar when a DK with half a brain can do 900 by bashing his head on the keyboard. Why bring the world's best 1.1k dps Templar when your average run of the mill DK does 1.2k and your big performers can shoot 2k+ dps. A great Templar is only worth a bad DK dpswise.

Have you considered healing, though? I've not had all that much trouble getting into AA or Hel Ra groups as a healer. Sure, you're fighting for one of maybe 2 spots in the raid, but if you know some people and they know you're good you'll get invites. Or if you don't perhaps consider making the group yourself. No one will think twice about joining a raid run by a temp healer. At least you're not lolnightblade.

Pyatra wrote: »

Ok, I have to ask... why Sorc? I mean they can fly around with Bolt escape but that doesn't really help the party in PvE, their synergies are kinda weak, DPS can be reached by Temps and NBs just as well. So why is everyone saying Sorcs and DKs all the time. The only skill we get hate on is the most useless reason to recruit a sorc (Bolt Escape).

People bring sorcs because they have negate, which gets rid of hostile ground effects and allows pugs to stand in fire and still win because, as pugs go, asking 12 people to get out of fire or, in this case, boulder, would be too much trouble compared with having a sorc farm ultimate with siphon and spam negate everything that drops on the ground.

ok but my point is that if you can achive the 600 dps per sec then there just butt whipes period you dont want too play with those people anyway

Artis · May 2014

They should disable all the ways to get those numbers completely. No one should know anyone's dps. The game is turning into WoW ...
Please, no. Remove all that info if you can't balance classes.

alexj4596b14_ESO · May 2014

Artemis wrote: »

They should disable all the ways to get those numbers completely. No one should know anyone's dps. The game is turning into WoW ...
Please, no. Remove all that info if you can't balance classes.

its too late for that now, we all who dose the EASYest dps in game and who dose not.

Wargasmo · May 2014

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

ok but my point is that if you can achive the 600 dps per sec then there just butt whipes period you dont want too play with those people anyway

DPS checks in this game tend to require an average output of 700 dps per dps class. This means for every 600 dps temp you bring someone else will have to be pushing 800 dps for your raid to succeed and kill the boss. And that's IF no one does something dumb and dies or gets rng 1 shot by something.

Stacking the raid with 1.4k dps DK's means that even if 2-3 people die over the course of the fight your group might still have a shot at making the dps timer.

So... I group with the 1.4k dps DK "butt whipes" because I want to win, and I have enough of a headache dealing with people who stand in fire, backpeedle, and are too drugged up to remember raid instructions to also deal with the earnest yet unappreciated Templar who is pulling woefully substandard dps because game designers are terrible at class balance.

So do what I do. Pick up a resto staff and heal those fights. Don't embarrass yourself throwing out your back trying to push your 600 dps to 700 dps. It's not worth it until they fix the class and you're nothing but a detriment to your raid.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

Its Heavy armor+Shield blocking. The tanking skills come from blocking with a shield. Overcharged clothe or heavy can be ripped through...its the shield and the blocking skills that make you a tank.

Except shield doesnt block or mitigate anymore, its either nerfed to far or they broke it.

Thechemicals · May 2014

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Its Heavy armor+Shield blocking. The tanking skills come from blocking with a shield. Overcharged clothe or heavy can be ripped through...its the shield and the blocking skills that make you a tank.

Except shield doesnt block or mitigate anymore, its either nerfed to far or they broke it.

No idea what you are talking about. I played last night till 1130pm and didnt see any difference in my shield blocking. Actually the opposite, i blocked an archer special attack and took only 121 dmg. Not blocking that attack, is like 1k dmg.

Ragnar_Lodbrok · May 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Thechemicals wrote: »

Its Heavy armor+Shield blocking. The tanking skills come from blocking with a shield. Overcharged clothe or heavy can be ripped through...its the shield and the blocking skills that make you a tank.

Except shield doesnt block or mitigate anymore, its either nerfed to far or they broke it.

No idea what you are talking about. I played last night till 1130pm and didnt see any difference in my shield blocking. Actually the opposite, i blocked an archer special attack and took only 121 dmg. Not blocking that attack, is like 1k dmg.

If you dont you will soon now that you will be looking.

Selstad · May 2014

It's interesting because Zenimax has fallen strait into the wormhole that WoW have tried to crawl out of, that is, bring the class, not the player.

Back in vanilla and throughout TBC, there were set specifics for some classes that they were meant to do. For a long time, Blizzard tried to change this. They've seemingly managed a somewhat balance in Mists.

So it's strange that with all that knowledge, that Zenimax doesn't manage to correct on the class specifics even though there are other MMOs out there to study and base yourself on.

"Oh but this is ESO and not some other MMO" you say, well, then you should look at Everquest, not the game, but the guild, Legacy of Steel. It was run by Rob Pardo, who came on to be the lead designer of World of Warcraft, alongside with Jeffrey Kaplan. It is evident that World of Warcraft has some serious inspiration from Everquest, but also other MMOs of that time such as Lineage.

Zenimax could have saved themselves some trouble if they'd balanced out the classes a bit better and made all as viable as the next. They did try with a "play as you want" mantra, but as it is now, it seems like there's a footnote on that mantra that's a bit too specific.

GeeYouWhy · May 2014

In the end there is only one true class - the DK.

Khazaad · May 2014

I blame bearded elves. People are too dumb and they're too clever for anyone to realize. I have recently posted about this. If you're smart, you'll read it and by God do NOT let them alone with anything you value.

Rev Rielle · May 2014

Artemis wrote: »

They should disable all the ways to get those numbers completely. No one should know anyone's dps. The game is turning into WoW ...
Please, no. Remove all that info if you can't balance classes.

Yes, Addons as a whole I think are one of the biggest mistakes ZoS has made so far. I have a feeling they might know that too, but it's a little late now to change it I imagine.

khele23eb17_ESO · May 2014

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Artemis wrote: »

They should disable all the ways to get those numbers completely. No one should know anyone's dps. The game is turning into WoW ...
Please, no. Remove all that info if you can't balance classes.

Yes, Addons as a whole I think are one of the biggest mistakes ZoS has made so far. I have a feeling they might know that too, but it's a little late now to change it I imagine.

Good idea ZOS, hide your blunders better instead of fixing them.

jrob8xb14_ESO · May 2014

Artemis wrote: »

They should disable all the ways to get those numbers completely. No one should know anyone's dps. The game is turning into WoW ...
Please, no. Remove all that info if you can't balance classes.

That makes you completely blind to skills functioning correctly. That is not the solution at all. In fact we need more information complete and reliable breakdowns so that we can help improve the game. I would rather not run around thinking a skill is awesome when in reality it's not doing the function I expected at all. In EQ2 we found many skills were straight up broken using ACT and we filed reports which got those fixed over time. Without that tool we would have never known, content would have been more difficult with more whining and further dumbing down of the entire game. Sweeping the issue under the carpet is not a long term solution.

Therium104 · May 2014

Wargasmo wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

ok but my point is that if you can achive the 600 dps per sec then there just butt whipes period you dont want too play with those people anyway

DPS checks in this game tend to require an average output of 700 dps per dps class. This means for every 600 dps temp you bring someone else will have to be pushing 800 dps for your raid to succeed and kill the boss. And that's IF no one does something dumb and dies or gets rng 1 shot by something.

Stacking the raid with 1.4k dps DK's means that even if 2-3 people die over the course of the fight your group might still have a shot at making the dps timer.

So... I group with the 1.4k dps DK "butt whipes" because I want to win, and I have enough of a headache dealing with people who stand in fire, backpeedle, and are too drugged up to remember raid instructions to also deal with the earnest yet unappreciated Templar who is pulling woefully substandard dps because game designers are terrible at class balance.

So do what I do. Pick up a resto staff and heal those fights. Don't embarrass yourself throwing out your back trying to push your 600 dps to 700 dps. It's not worth it until they fix the class and you're nothing but a detriment to your raid.

Okay. So if Templars can heal better than DK's how does it make sense for both the classes to have comparable dps? It is the same argument all of you are using but reversed. So do dk's require more heals or...

How about you use your brain and accept the fact balance does not mean your class is the best at everything.

Pathetic.

pecheckler · May 2014

Therium104 wrote: »

Wargasmo wrote: »

alexj4596b14_ESO wrote: »

ok but my point is that if you can achive the 600 dps per sec then there just butt whipes period you dont want too play with those people anyway

DPS checks in this game tend to require an average output of 700 dps per dps class. This means for every 600 dps temp you bring someone else will have to be pushing 800 dps for your raid to succeed and kill the boss. And that's IF no one does something dumb and dies or gets rng 1 shot by something.

Stacking the raid with 1.4k dps DK's means that even if 2-3 people die over the course of the fight your group might still have a shot at making the dps timer.

So... I group with the 1.4k dps DK "butt whipes" because I want to win, and I have enough of a headache dealing with people who stand in fire, backpeedle, and are too drugged up to remember raid instructions to also deal with the earnest yet unappreciated Templar who is pulling woefully substandard dps because game designers are terrible at class balance.

So do what I do. Pick up a resto staff and heal those fights. Don't embarrass yourself throwing out your back trying to push your 600 dps to 700 dps. It's not worth it until they fix the class and you're nothing but a detriment to your raid.

Okay. So if Templars can heal better than DK's how does it make sense for both the classes to have comparable dps? It is the same argument all of you are using but reversed. So do dk's require more heals or...

How about you use your brain and accept the fact balance does not mean your class is the best at everything.

Pathetic.

This was the sales pitch for the game itself. Any class can fill any roll.

Now a alight difference in any role would be acceptable, but the differences between class damage and healing output at each role is enormous, and that's just numbers. Factor in crowd control capabilities (and the fact that templars have none), DK wins again.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO · May 2014

except that templars bring 2 things to the table that other healers dont. and thats breath of life and practiced incantation. a sorc with dark exchange has a near unlimited magika pool for resto stick skills and can buff the heals with surge. and is far better dps when not healing.

a nightblade has an unlimited magika pool with the siphoning strikes line. and several other hots to stack. so you bring 1 along for hot spamming.

so basically its a question of do i need the 3 breath of lifes a templar can cast before going oom. or should i just fill that spot with more dps and since we know that templar dps is abysmal .....

ExiledKhallisi · May 2014

You are all so cute with these comments! 1,600-3,000dps avg. Lrn 2 crit templar. I stopped using biting jabs before they needed it because there are better skills.