Increase 4-man dungeons to 5-man to allow Support role.
-
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No. Most wouldn't add a "support role" they would just add another DPS or healer so it wouldn't change much.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
aleister✭✭✭✭This topic is moot, NOBODY would bring an actual support, just another DPS so the dungeon would finish faster to get each player their SP so they could go back to playing ESO solo again.
As the game stands I think you are right. Most of the encounter designs are very low brow - monster has a [snip] of HP and hits like a bus. The strategy therefore is pretty much always burn them down as quickly as possible. Very quick, very brute force, very little tactical planning needed and little use for support skills or anything else that isn't directly related to DPS.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]Edited by ZOS_LeroyW on June 1, 2014 4:34PM0 -
aleister✭✭✭✭
Untrue. People seem to have this simplified mindset ignoring the fact how much they could benefit from a support char (but since they usually don't see big damage / heal counters coming from such a char....). Besides the fact support chars can be a lot of fun to play.Games that have support roles in dungeons typically lead to the support switching to dps because support is typically not needed(makes it slower vs having another dps)
They are a lot of fun to play and I miss it. But the truth is, as the game stands, it will always better quicker/easier for everyone to just focus on damage output. Even as a healer, you can't just heal. You have to do damage as well which means you have balance your skill bar with damage & healing. Tough with the IDIOTIC 5-skill limitation or fumble with the very, very broken and laggy weapon-swap.0 -
PF1901✭✭✭
While I agree with your resentment about the existing "faster faster" mentality your point is moot as well. If buffs / debuffs would play an essential role they would more or less yield the same result.This topic is moot, NOBODY would bring an actual support, just another DPS so the dungeon would finish faster to get each player their SP so they could go back to playing ESO solo again.
0 -
PF1901✭✭✭
Support role how I miss thee :'(
Untrue. People seem to have this simplified mindset ignoring the fact how much they could benefit from a support char (but since they usually don't see big damage / heal counters coming from such a char....). Besides the fact support chars can be a lot of fun to play.Games that have support roles in dungeons typically lead to the support switching to dps because support is typically not needed(makes it slower vs having another dps)
They are a lot of fun to play and I miss it. But the truth is, as the game stands, it will always better quicker/easier for everyone to just focus on damage output. Even as a healer, you can't just heal. You have to do damage as well which means you have balance your skill bar with damage & healing. Tough with the IDIOTIC 5-skill limitation or fumble with the very, very broken and laggy weapon-swap.
0 -
honestly, i dont care for the 4 man units either, i always prefer 6. the problem i see most is that no one is willing to "sacrifice" DPS for support. it just takes one ability from all 4 to produce some form of support. i think it would be easier to do so by adding a 6th ability to the list over more people in the group. face it you wont see the days of EQ bard again, as much as i miss and hate those days. even adding a 6th ability would just mean more DPS abilities.I will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
TarladanSoul ShrivenI would also love a way that this game could have 6 man instances instead but i also do not see it happening. people will rather take more dps, fights are not long enough to require more support skills, except boss fights, and there you see everyone having to contribute. i think one small step would be to have 1 or 2 extra skill slots so people do not have to sacrifice their dps rotations for support skills. I personally already feel a little trapped with what I can have on the skill bar in many situations which I do not find fun, but that is almost another problem I have.1
-
Sakiri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a former bard/enchanter, I still say it wont happen.
And my eq2 dirge? Utility. Ive off tanked raid trash....0 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Just have your 3 DPS coordinate a different support skill each on their second bar. Or, if you actually have a tank, have that player fill both roles. There's like three tank skills in the game. Toss some support skills in the open slots.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Has anyone even considered that if they make lets say instanes 5 man instead of 4 man, they had to balance the game accordingly?
ESO is the first game ever when I felt my first "raid" was grotto. Failed like hell...but after trying, changing tactics, understanding the fight, we did it!
If you add another person. They need to add extra to the instance to fit a 5 man group.
Unless of course someone is ONLY thinking about clearing a dungeon as fast and easy as possible.
Wrong game....Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
Drasn✭✭✭✭taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »With the increase from 4-man groups to 5-man groups we would be allowed to have an additional role filled in dungeon runs, the support roll.
As it stands, there are many great looking / sounding support abilities but many players will opt to not choose them because tanks want all their skills to be tank oriented, DPS want their skills to be dps oriented, and healers are worried about keeping their team mates alive.
I would love to roll a support based character, granting my allies shield, damage, and speed buffs. I think this would add another extremely fun and interactive layer to the game.
I know it won't be implemented anytime soon, but if ZOS could get back to me on their thoughts as to if they are considering this for the future?
I think many players could get behind this!
Support roll ftw!
Because people will actually fill that spot with a dedicated support.... ha ha...oh you were serious....0 -
xanikk999✭✭✭taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »With the increase from 4-man groups to 5-man groups we would be allowed to have an additional role filled in dungeon runs, the support roll.
As it stands, there are many great looking / sounding support abilities but many players will opt to not choose them because tanks want all their skills to be tank oriented, DPS want their skills to be dps oriented, and healers are worried about keeping their team mates alive.
I would love to roll a support based character, granting my allies shield, damage, and speed buffs. I think this would add another extremely fun and interactive layer to the game.
I know it won't be implemented anytime soon, but if ZOS could get back to me on their thoughts as to if they are considering this for the future?
I think many players could get behind this!
Support roll ftw!
Pure support roles outside of the holy trinity (tank/dps/heals) have gone to the wayside in recent mmos and for good reason.
It was extremely unengaging and unenticing playstyle for the grand majority of players. For most people it was simply unrewarding. People who would play such roles were extremely coveted and incredibly hard to come by (Think bards in FFXI. At least that was the case when I played a long time ago).
I have no problem if such a role is optional in a 5 party set up. But if it becomes mandatory or even optional I think it will be to the detriment of the game.0 -
too many dps mannntaylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »With the increase from 4-man groups to 5-man groups we would be allowed to have an additional role filled in dungeon runs, the support roll.
As it stands, there are many great looking / sounding support abilities but many players will opt to not choose them because tanks want all their skills to be tank oriented, DPS want their skills to be dps oriented, and healers are worried about keeping their team mates alive.
I would love to roll a support based character, granting my allies shield, damage, and speed buffs. I think this would add another extremely fun and interactive layer to the game.
I know it won't be implemented anytime soon, but if ZOS could get back to me on their thoughts as to if they are considering this for the future?
I think many players could get behind this!
Support roll ftw!
Pure support roles outside of the holy trinity (tank/dps/heals) have gone to the wayside in recent mmos and for good reason.
It was extremely unengaging and unenticing playstyle for the grand majority of players. For most people it was simply unrewarding. People who would play such roles were extremely coveted and incredibly hard to come by (Think bards in FFXI. At least that was the case when I played a long time ago).
I have no problem if such a role is optional in a 5 party set up. But if it becomes mandatory or even optional I think it will be to the detriment of the game.
Lol what? You have no problem if the role is optional, but if it becomes mandatory or even optional it will be detrimental to the game?
I'm curious how adding another role to play/fill would make the game worse. It would only be adding another layer and another opportunity for players to find their niche.1 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ruddertail wrote: »Support would do things like keep Combat Prayer on everyone, debuff the enemies and such with abilities that nobody else slots but are still useful, and crowd control.
It'd add some variety to dungeons so I'd be just fine with that, but the game isn't really hard enough to need it... yet.
like i currently do as a Sorc healer? i only need one skill not being healy/supporty and thats a selfish skill called Dark Conversion that grants me a basicly unlimited magicka amountPLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
Although I think there are support skill in each "class," most do not want to use them because of the limited hotbar size.
I want a 5 man team mainly because a lot of everything else is based on 5 --
5 Companioins
5 armor passive
and a couple more
Or they could add another skill to the hotbar maybe0 -
TRIP233✭✭✭Healers should be Support roles already.. There is no need or reason to increase how many people are in the dungeons. I play support I don't just heal, I buff.. everyone. Sturdy Horn is my ultimate I know it's a PvP ability but it works in PvE as well. Buffs 0-0 omg they exists! Blazing Spire for Templars (which are the best for support roles) Not only does Blazing Spire do damage it also has a synergy. Take it and find out what it does.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Adding another person won't allow a support role.
Some ppl have in their heads that they are only DPS, Tank or Healer.
Build characters who are functional in battle to do multiple functions. Switch around your skills and weapons depending on each fight.
It's you who have limited the support role not the # of ppl in a group-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭taylorwilenskiub17_ESO wrote: »With the increase from 4-man groups to 5-man groups we would be allowed to have an additional role filled in dungeon runs, the support roll.
As it stands, there are many great looking / sounding support abilities but many players will opt to not choose them because tanks want all their skills to be tank oriented, DPS want their skills to be dps oriented, and healers are worried about keeping their team mates alive.
I would love to roll a support based character, granting my allies shield, damage, and speed buffs. I think this would add another extremely fun and interactive layer to the game.
I know it won't be implemented anytime soon, but if ZOS could get back to me on their thoughts as to if they are considering this for the future?
I think many players could get behind this!
Support roll ftw!
I love this idea , but there is really no support in this game unfortunately all it will do is stack another DPS in that spot. until ZOS makes some actuall mechanics that need a tank, not a DPS with a taunt, and those some what support type abilities needed and useful in end game. they would need to make those type of abilities required for completion of mechanics.1 -
Mahogany✭✭✭Start running trials. We often bring a full utility templar to supply raid wide buffs via Power of the Light, Siphon Spirit, Elemental Drain/Susceptibility, Combat prayer, etc. This allows the DPS to focus on their rotations 100% and generally results in improvements to overall damage output.
Support is possible in this game - you just wont find much need for it in 4 man (or 5 man) dungeons, as others have pointed out. The name of the game is generally DPS; the more you have, the easier things are.1 -
Cyberdown✭✭✭until there is a major overhaul in general to how tanks and heals work in mmorpgs...there should be no dungeons with less than 6 to 8 people. More DPS are in the game and its the norm...so why do mmorpgs continually shrink the required dps to heals/tank per group making it even harder to find a group in general?0
-
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well in this game there are not tanks. so the reason groups are hard to find are based on the rewards of said group content. the reward system is just bleh.until there is a major overhaul in general to how tanks and heals work in mmorpgs...there should be no dungeons with less than 6 to 8 people. More DPS are in the game and its the norm...so why do mmorpgs continually shrink the required dps to heals/tank per group making it even harder to find a group in general?
0 -
Elloa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I like the Dungeon as they are. Four man is great. It allow you to easily do the Dungeon at 3 if you want it a bit more challenging, or without tank, and healer.
I do not think that increasing the number to five would make the experience any better.
I'm just waiting with impatience the day the Dungeon will scale to the group leader level. That will be a kickass improvement.
0 -
Nihili✭✭✭I'm confused. How does the 4-man group not allow for a support role?
1 tank, 1 DPS, 1 healer, and 1 support.
That's 4.
I believe that compelling argument was deduced through counting.1 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
No issues there, who stops you from 3 manning current ones?;) Or hell, even 2 manning. I hear some even solo them but I'm still miles away from that. 2 manning is certainly possible if you both know what you're doing though.DagothMacellarius wrote: »I am the opposite. I want 3 man dungeons.
Far as OP goes, you can perfectly off-support now. In fact, it's great if you do, ALL of you. I'm a sorc so unfortunately I don't have many ways of buffing my teammates but as a healer I try to always keep Combat Prayer up. In tough fights that don't require lots of running around we always coordinate who's gonna drop Circle of Protection. Using at least some CC isn't even a question unless we're so cool we can just burn stuff down before it moves.
That said, most vet dungeons are easy enough once you know what you're doing so plenty of groups can and do focus on pure dps to just burn stuff faster. So basically - if you need support, nothing is stopping you from giving/recieving some of it now(aside from running with idiots but let's leave this sad story aside for now), if you're good enough that you don't, just go kill stuff right away, it's fun:P0
