Templar DPS Poll - How are you dealing with the Biting Jabs nerf?

AngryNord · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

zgrssd wrote: »

And no, that was NOT because of your "Ultimatums" about quitting.

Are you sure about that? There has not been any patch notes published, no info that anything would be fixed, and no update downloaded through the Client...

Kykosis12 · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

I'm really not seeing the problem tbh, i am managing fine, all these people saying that they are going to un sub if not fixed. It's a bit extreme isn't it? Just because of 1 move? My honest opinion, that's just silly, i understand that temps are a bit low on dps and that biting jabs was the best dps move, but that is not the issue, fixing temps dps is the problem. every move not just biting jabs...

zgrssd · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

AngryNord wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

And no, that was NOT because of your "Ultimatums" about quitting.

Are you sure about that? There has not been any patch notes published, no info that anything would be fixed, and no update downloaded through the Client...

Damn, I only Checked Punctring Strikes (the base power). But I am ready to morph, jsut need to grab soem skyshards.

Edit: Morphed it. Can Spam Bitign Jabs as I could Puncturign Strikes. As I can spam anything else, So no delay/lockout between uses.

ZakyUchiha · May 2014

I will level up/play another class while the nerf is in effect, since I can't play my Templar effectively anymore.

Melee Templar sucks now. Everyone goes for the PoTL build now with a dest staff..
Currently I'm lvling a sorc, already lv 47

zgrssd · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

ZakyUchiha wrote: »

Melee Templar sucks now. Everyone goes for the PoTL build now with a dest staff..
Currently I'm lvling a sorc, already lv 47

Except I jsut tested it and it is definetely fixed now on the EU megaserver. There is no delay between uses of biting jabs anymore.
No downloads, propably done with the 4 AM Maintenance as it was logically a serverside fix.

NA server was either already done with Thursday maintenance, or will be done with next Monday one (one server is always a day earlier then the other). We EU guys are most often the guys making Test Server for the NA ones

madangrypally · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Biting Jabs was not reverted back to what it was before. They slowed the animation to the new increased channel time. They have no intention to revert it back to the shorter channel duration it was prior to patch. The increased channel time makes this ability pretty crappy.

IMO the damage is garbage like the entire Templar Tree and this change just confirms ZoS view that they dont care about Templars and it will be a class that gets shafted.

Mortosk · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

madangrypally wrote: »

Biting Jabs was not reverted back to what it was before. They slowed the animation to the new increased channel time. They have no intention to revert it back to the shorter channel duration it was prior to patch. The increased channel time makes this ability pretty crappy.

IMO the damage is garbage like the entire Templar Tree and this change just confirms ZoS view that they dont care about Templars and it will be a class that gets shafted.

Are you on the EU server?

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

My 2H Melee Templar works just fine still.

Azinurn · May 2014

can't comment on that since i never use it on my templar since i have been running a bow build since start

Mortosk · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

Lilth wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Use your other utilities at our disposal to make up the dps difference. Then learn to play with more than one skill.

^
I didn't hardly notice a change at all but I use several other abilities too and never relied on just biting jabs to get the job done. It's in my rotation and by the time I use the other 2 or 3 abilities it's ready to use again.
I don't see what the big deal is that they nerfed it a little bit.

interesting seeing how jabs is locking other skills (even light attack) from being used. how exactly are you using 2 or 3 abilities in that lockout time.

It is because Jessica's patch addendum post erroneously claimed the change was adding 0.7 seconds to the existing 0.5 second internal cool down. What they actually did was change it to a 1.2 second GLOBAL cool down. No dev has addressed this yet and I think it is well overdo.

Khivas_Carrick · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

I think Honor The Dead might be broken because as I tried to fight a group of mobs, every skill but that one worked for no apparent reason what so ever

sCouraGeFire · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

As a melee dps templar, *** this game. I already cancelled my subscription. I may consider coming back when this game isnt destro staff online.

Biting jabs nerf added insult to injury.

Lalai · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

Mortosk wrote: »

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

Lilth wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Use your other utilities at our disposal to make up the dps difference. Then learn to play with more than one skill.

^
I didn't hardly notice a change at all but I use several other abilities too and never relied on just biting jabs to get the job done. It's in my rotation and by the time I use the other 2 or 3 abilities it's ready to use again.
I don't see what the big deal is that they nerfed it a little bit.

interesting seeing how jabs is locking other skills (even light attack) from being used. how exactly are you using 2 or 3 abilities in that lockout time.

It is because Jessica's patch addendum post erroneously claimed the change was adding 0.7 seconds to the existing 0.5 second internal cool down. What they actually did was change it to a 1.2 second GLOBAL cool down. No dev has addressed this yet and I think it is well overdo.

Jessica also said, in that same post you're referring to that they'd reviewed it based on the outcry from the forums, agreed that it now felt clunky, and were going to revert the changes and instead go with an increased skill cost. How you read the first part of the post and then skipped over the part that actually addressed the concern I'm not sure. I even posted her reply in this thread (top of the third page).

I guess it's easy to claim they aren't addressing things, and that they're overdo to do so when you ignore the parts of posts where things are actually addressed.

Thechemicals · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

Used it when i was a noob, but i hardly touch that tree now.

Mortosk · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Lalai wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

Lilth wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Use your other utilities at our disposal to make up the dps difference. Then learn to play with more than one skill.

^
I didn't hardly notice a change at all but I use several other abilities too and never relied on just biting jabs to get the job done. It's in my rotation and by the time I use the other 2 or 3 abilities it's ready to use again.
I don't see what the big deal is that they nerfed it a little bit.

interesting seeing how jabs is locking other skills (even light attack) from being used. how exactly are you using 2 or 3 abilities in that lockout time.

It is because Jessica's patch addendum post erroneously claimed the change was adding 0.7 seconds to the existing 0.5 second internal cool down. What they actually did was change it to a 1.2 second GLOBAL cool down. No dev has addressed this yet and I think it is well overdo.

Jessica also said, in that same post you're referring to that they'd reviewed it based on the outcry from the forums, agreed that it now felt clunky, and were going to revert the changes and instead go with an increased skill cost. How you read the first part of the post and then skipped over the part that actually addressed the concern I'm not sure. I even posted her reply in this thread (top of the third page).

I guess it's easy to claim they aren't addressing things, and that they're overdo to do so when you ignore the parts of posts where things are actually addressed.

You sound like a smart person, so let me ask you. If they thought they added 0.7 seconds to an existing 0.5 second ICD, but instead added an unreported 1.2 second GCD, how sure would you be when they revert it back to the original 0.5 seconds delay that it wouldn't remain a GCD instead of an ICD as intended.

That is my concern, and until that is addressed or we see the actual results of the reversion, no one will know the answer to that.

Nox_Aeterna · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

zgrssd wrote: »

ZakyUchiha wrote: »

Melee Templar sucks now. Everyone goes for the PoTL build now with a dest staff..
Currently I'm lvling a sorc, already lv 47

Except I jsut tested it and it is definetely fixed now on the EU megaserver. There is no delay between uses of biting jabs anymore.
No downloads, propably done with the 4 AM Maintenance as it was logically a serverside fix.

NA server was either already done with Thursday maintenance, or will be done with next Monday one (one server is always a day earlier then the other). We EU guys are most often the guys making Test Server for the NA ones

Well i just tested on the US sever , it is not fixed there.

NerfEverything · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

The nerf itself isn't so bad, or at least it isn't supposed to be so bad.

The problem was it was an undocumented nerf that was bugged, with absolutely no justification for the reasoning behind it. On top of that, it was a nerf to an already struggling class with arguably the worst core class abilities.

Templars can still play the game, we just have to rely on skills outside our class line for DPS and CC now. Unless we want to do any VR12 content, in that case, no one wants us in groups because we are the 3rd worst healer and worst DPS.

It is this type of reasoning that I cancelled my sub. Between the way Zen handled the bots & exploits in the first month, after ignoring all the bugs and exploits that were reported in beta, and their first "balance" patch effectively reduced the end-game to 2 classes, there is absolutely no indication that Zen has the ability to fix or even maintain this game.

Mortosk · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

zgrssd wrote: »

ZakyUchiha wrote: »

Melee Templar sucks now. Everyone goes for the PoTL build now with a dest staff..
Currently I'm lvling a sorc, already lv 47

Except I jsut tested it and it is definetely fixed now on the EU megaserver. There is no delay between uses of biting jabs anymore.
No downloads, propably done with the 4 AM Maintenance as it was logically a serverside fix.

NA server was either already done with Thursday maintenance, or will be done with next Monday one (one server is always a day earlier then the other). We EU guys are most often the guys making Test Server for the NA ones

Well i just tested on the US sever , it is not fixed there.

It figures they would make us wait until Monday and have to deal with this crap all weekend long. Some of us work and only really get a chance to play on the weekends. Sigh.

terence.caroneb17_ESO · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

People who don't mind the change are not realizing they're now part of the only class with a skill which gives global cooldown.
The only global cooldown of the game.
It's alright for them.
ah ah.

Pmarsico9 · May 2014

I don't understand the uproar. Biting Jabs has always sucked. You can't block during the animation and the DPM was never that great anyway. Sunfire was always a far superior option as far as DPM due to the DoT it leaves behind.

Aedric doesn't have a ton of DPS available in the tree outside of Blazing Spear.

Templars draw a very large portion of their damage from their weapons. You can play them melee, but you are foolish if you think that you are supposed to stand there and spam a single ability ad nauseum and be even close to viable. There's alot of AoE potential and support potential due to being the only class with a dedicated true healing tree.

Pmarsico9 · May 2014

The last passive in Aedric supports me. You deal flat out extra damage with weapons. There's a reason that exists.

Calgrissom · May 2014

I don't like the changes, but I will continue playing my Templar.

The issue I see here is most Templars who say "its a non issue" Are wearing light armor and using a destro/resto staff all of which are light years ahead of melee/bow damage and heavy/medium armor utility. I play a Templar tank I have since day one. Ive cleared every V5-V10 dungeon as the tank and have every speed run/ undaunted achievement for doing so. I've also tanked AA trails.

Not all of us use the current cloth/staff combo which massively due for a huge nerf soon unless the rest of the weapon/armor lines can be brought into line with them. I have about 250 Skill points so I have a lot of options. I can put on full cloth and pick up a resto staff and heal like a boss and I do when needed. But I choose to play as a tank Templar because we where given some of the best tanking skills in the game.

By removing a huge elements of our melee dps they have done a good bit of damage to the class. And with there intended fix of adding magica cost they will do even more. As of right now Templars have jack for magica recovery adding a even heavier cost to and already expensive skill will only hurt melee Templars even more because we don't have the luxury of Light armor bonuses and sets like magica furnace and warlock.

I currently use 3 Epic level V11 magica cost reduction jewelry pieces and wear 5H/2L armor for max magica reduction. I can still solo with sword and board and don't have much issue but nerfing biting jabs in any way is foolish when you look at the melee Templars ability and survivability VS a sorc or DK in a dress with a stick. A light armor DK/Sorc is as survivable as a Melee Templar in Heavy with a 1h and shield with 2x the dps output.

Mortosk · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I don't understand the uproar. Biting Jabs has always sucked. You can't block during the animation and the DPM was never that great anyway. Sunfire was always a far superior option as far as DPM due to the DoT it leaves behind.

Aedric doesn't have a ton of DPS available in the tree outside of Blazing Spear.

Templars draw a very large portion of their damage from their weapons. You can play them melee, but you are foolish if you think that you are supposed to stand there and spam a single ability ad nauseum and be even close to viable. There's alot of AoE potential and support potential due to being the only class with a dedicated true healing tree.

I don't spam it blindly. But I do use it when my ultimate crescent sweep is down and my reflective light dot tick is not applied. I also use solar barrage to set up crescent sweeps. The 1.2 second delays are EXTREMELY irritating because I have to endure 3 of these lock out delays every time I kill vet trash. That's about how many times I cast biting jabs every fight.

NerfEverything · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Calgrissom wrote: »

nerfing biting jabs in any way is foolish when you look at the melee Templars ability and survivability VS a sorc or DK in a dress with a stick. A light armor DK/Sorc is as survivable as a Melee Templar in Heavy with a 1h and shield with 2x the dps output.

Nailed it

Lalai · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

Mortosk wrote: »

Lalai wrote: »

Mortosk wrote: »

Jeremy_gelber_ESO wrote: »

Lilth wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Use your other utilities at our disposal to make up the dps difference. Then learn to play with more than one skill.

^
I didn't hardly notice a change at all but I use several other abilities too and never relied on just biting jabs to get the job done. It's in my rotation and by the time I use the other 2 or 3 abilities it's ready to use again.
I don't see what the big deal is that they nerfed it a little bit.

interesting seeing how jabs is locking other skills (even light attack) from being used. how exactly are you using 2 or 3 abilities in that lockout time.

It is because Jessica's patch addendum post erroneously claimed the change was adding 0.7 seconds to the existing 0.5 second internal cool down. What they actually did was change it to a 1.2 second GLOBAL cool down. No dev has addressed this yet and I think it is well overdo.

Jessica also said, in that same post you're referring to that they'd reviewed it based on the outcry from the forums, agreed that it now felt clunky, and were going to revert the changes and instead go with an increased skill cost. How you read the first part of the post and then skipped over the part that actually addressed the concern I'm not sure. I even posted her reply in this thread (top of the third page).

I guess it's easy to claim they aren't addressing things, and that they're overdo to do so when you ignore the parts of posts where things are actually addressed.

You sound like a smart person, so let me ask you. If they thought they added 0.7 seconds to an existing 0.5 second ICD, but instead added an unreported 1.2 second GCD, how sure would you be when they revert it back to the original 0.5 seconds delay that it wouldn't remain a GCD instead of an ICD as intended.

That is my concern, and until that is addressed or we see the actual results of the reversion, no one will know the answer to that.

You can really interpret what she said any way you want. Fact is, they said they're reverting the changes they made. Reports from the EU server have been saying it's been reverted there. Maybe NA didn't get the patch for it yet and we have to wait till Monday. I don't have that answer.

The devs aren't going to be able to address every nit picky wording from the playerbase, so people who are nit picky about that stuff are likely never to be satisfied. My whole point was she said it was being reverted (which tends to mean back to what it was pre-patch) and that instead they were nerfing it by doing the cost increase, but that was not taken note of, instead people go on to say it hasn't been addressed (in this case meaning talked about), when in fact it had been. Saying it's not been addressed in a way that you personally feel unsatisfactory is entirely different from saying they're flat out ignoring the problem. That's misleading and really spreading false information.

I'm not a smart person at all, but I do try to keep up on dev posts, and if I'm going to include information from a post I make sure to include all of the information provided. The whole spreading false info thing has happened far too often for this game.

plymale.jonathanb14_ESO · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

@lalai There is parsing words, then there is mixing up ICD with GCD.... on the coding side... in a game that doesn't have GCDs. It is an error that warrants attention and a fix ASAP. Not to mention how colossally misguided it is to nerf the weakest class in the game.

Lalai · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

plymale.jonathanb14_ESO wrote: »

@lalai There is parsing words, then there is mixing up ICD with GCD.... on the coding side... in a game that doesn't have GCDs. It is an error that warrants attention and a fix ASAP. Not to mention how colossally misguided it is to nerf the weakest class in the game.

Oh, I'm not saying the nerf shouldn't be reverted. I'm saying that it was already stated that it would be. Jessica doesn't appear to be a dev, she is just passing on information. Sometimes things get lost in translation, and that's coming from someone who has had to play the in-between for software engineers and customers. She could have mixed up the two on accident, but it still wouldn't change the whole reverted, which would mean pre-patch when you're talking software.

I agree that the Templar class needs buffs. I disagreed with saying that the recent nerf hadn't been at all addressed, when in fact it had been.

meghuskoow · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

I still use it, well an evolved itteration of it, but only after ransacking their armor and then i use it and dance around. No big deal, i didnt even noticed they changed anything.

madangrypally · May 2014

I will give Zenimax until my sub expires to revert it.

Lalai wrote: »

plymale.jonathanb14_ESO wrote: »

@lalai There is parsing words, then there is mixing up ICD with GCD.... on the coding side... in a game that doesn't have GCDs. It is an error that warrants attention and a fix ASAP. Not to mention how colossally misguided it is to nerf the weakest class in the game.

Oh, I'm not saying the nerf shouldn't be reverted. I'm saying that it was already stated that it would be. Jessica doesn't appear to be a dev, she is just passing on information. Sometimes things get lost in translation, and that's coming from someone who has had to play the in-between for software engineers and customers. She could have mixed up the two on accident, but it still wouldn't change the whole reverted, which would mean pre-patch when you're talking software.

I agree that the Templar class needs buffs. I disagreed with saying that the recent nerf hadn't been at all addressed, when in fact it had been.

I disagree. This issue has not been addressed in any meaningful way.

1: Said it will be reverted back as soon as possible (next patch maybe). There have been multiple hotfixes since then and a few maintenance patches and still no change. Until ZoS comes here and tells us the ETA of said patch they have not addressed this issue.

2: They said it was due to the damage component of the ability. This had to be a blatant lie as from all test and feedback it was not over powered to begin with. When add in other factors like Sorcerers and Dragonknights DPS then it was an underwhelming ability. The only real reason to nerf this was because of the Bots.

3: There has been no updates since the initial response and none in the foreseeable future. Those who think this will be fixed anytime soon is sadly mistaken. Just look at all the buggy NB passives that are still not fixed even though they were reported in beta.

4: NBs are plagued with bugs that greatly effect there classes overall abilities. Once that is fixed then they will be far ahead of Templars. They will still be behind DKs and Sorcs but still light years ahead of Templars. Templars are not crappy due to bugs but due to overall core class design. There are very niche builds people can use to overcome those flaws but they still can not compare to the master classes of DK and Sorcs.

Just a FYI I have both a Vet rank DK and a VR12 Templar. I dont like the DKs playstyle even though they are considered OP. I did enjoy my Templars playstyle that I made to be similar to a Paladin.

Lalai · May 2014

I don't mind the changes, and I will continue playing my Templar.

madangrypally wrote: »

Lalai wrote: »

plymale.jonathanb14_ESO wrote: »

@lalai There is parsing words, then there is mixing up ICD with GCD.... on the coding side... in a game that doesn't have GCDs. It is an error that warrants attention and a fix ASAP. Not to mention how colossally misguided it is to nerf the weakest class in the game.

Oh, I'm not saying the nerf shouldn't be reverted. I'm saying that it was already stated that it would be. Jessica doesn't appear to be a dev, she is just passing on information. Sometimes things get lost in translation, and that's coming from someone who has had to play the in-between for software engineers and customers. She could have mixed up the two on accident, but it still wouldn't change the whole reverted, which would mean pre-patch when you're talking software.

I agree that the Templar class needs buffs. I disagreed with saying that the recent nerf hadn't been at all addressed, when in fact it had been.

I disagree. This issue has not been addressed in any meaningful way.

1: Said it will be reverted back as soon as possible (next patch maybe). There have been multiple hotfixes since then and a few maintenance patches and still no change. Until ZoS comes here and tells us the ETA of said patch they have not addressed this issue.

2: They said it was due to the damage component of the ability. This had to be a blatant lie as from all test and feedback it was not over powered to begin with. When add in other factors like Sorcerers and Dragonknights DPS then it was an underwhelming ability. The only real reason to nerf this was because of the Bots.

3: There has been no updates since the initial response and none in the foreseeable future. Those who think this will be fixed anytime soon is sadly mistaken. Just look at all the buggy NB passives that are still not fixed even though they were reported in beta.

4: NBs are plagued with bugs that greatly effect there classes overall abilities. Once that is fixed then they will be far ahead of Templars. They will still be behind DKs and Sorcs but still light years ahead of Templars. Templars are not crappy due to bugs but due to overall core class design. There are very niche builds people can use to overcome those flaws but they still can not compare to the master classes of DK and Sorcs.

Just a FYI I have both a Vet rank DK and a VR12 Templar. I dont like the DKs playstyle even though they are considered OP. I did enjoy my Templars playstyle that I made to be similar to a Paladin.

I don't actually disagree with anything you said save for the "Until ZoS comes here and tells us the ETA of said patch they have not addressed the issue" bit. I don't expect an ETA unless they have a solid one.. and I'm sure my version of "soon" is different from other folks. I don't expect daily, or weekly updates from developers on a single skill issue when there are much larger class issues to be had, and I'm fine with reports from the EU server saying it seems better for them after the last patch. I don't have an EU character to test it for myself, so really just have to trust the people that have tested it at this point.

The whole it hasn't been addressed to my satisfaction bit is completely subjective because everyone has a different version of what they're looking for, and when the forums are involved the satisfaction bit is rarely, if ever, achieveable. From my experience, the staff for the forums are actually very actively replying to a lot of stuff, much more than I've seen in past MMOs. They have a lot of different things, and people have various opinions on which things should receive more attention. Obviously folks who got smacked with a skill nerf that they feel completely destroys their motivation to play are going to feel it's deserves more attention than something else. The update we've received concerned the skill is a week old now, and that kinda serves me just fine. Obviously some folks in this thread disagree.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread. I will now shut my mouth regarding the update as I think the point I was trying to get across has been made, whether it's accepted as valid, or whether people agree with it is not something within my control (nor should it be).