Nickdorlandb16_ESO wrote: »

This is nice and all, im wondering will there ever be fixes for templar ?

ViciousWayz wrote: »

I am a max level NB now and I must say, you must be noobish at video games in general if by VR10, VR11, VR12 you haven't figured out how to make it work. My DPS is always the most effective WITH DW and Bow when running dungeons, group content, or even quickly taking out people in Cyrodiil. Does it need to be fixed still? YES. But they ALREADY acknowledged that and set our expectations as to what/when (1.2).

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Sorry if it was unclear. The first bullet point are things we have fixes for, and those fixes will go out with patch 1.2, though we are trying to get the most important ones pushed out earlier.

damfatcow wrote: »

Bow DPS- You can only use bows to maximum effectiveness if you are at max range while damaging enemy because you want that bow passive that gives you damage bonus when at max range. Even at max range, the DPS is still lower than sorcs because magicka abilities do a crap ton more damage per cast. The problem with these trials is alot of the times the enemies would be in your face and thats when your DPS takes a hit. If you weapon swap, thats already a huge decrease in DPS on the target because weapon swap although it has gotten better, is still not instantaneous like it should be and really the delay is not worth it to weapon swap when getting an enemy down RIGHT NOW is crucial for the survivability of the group. A class like sorcs on the other hand, do the same sustainable damage no matter what range they are and that DPS is better than what NBs can achieve with bow at max range.

Dual Wield DPS- Dual wield single target DPS is really not great for hard dungeons especially when you factor in the number of bosses or enemies that have to be downed from RANGE. I use dual wield for my AOE skills like steel tornado/ power extraction. Also for craglorn, if your running as DPS in your group and you dont have decent AOE spammable spell, you might as well just consider yourself a complete burden and waste of a party slot because all trash requires high AOE Damage.

Siphoning Strikes- I hate and love this skill. IMO this is one of the best NB abilities in the game as it allows you to have very high sustain on magicka and stamina and this is especially important for stamina based builds because you need to spam stamina abilities as well as do things like dodge roll and cc break. I hate this skill because it requires a sacrifice of 22% of my weapon damage and spell power in order for it to be used. Why is the damage nerf so high? Especially since NB's in general are already lacking in the DPS department compared to other classes. But I must use it for long Boss fights because 0 stamina= crap DPS.

Haste- On paper, this skill sounds like one of the best abilities weapon users could have in the game and is one of the reasons that drew me into choosing NBs because I like to attack as fast as possible in RPGs. But to achieve maximum DPS in this game you have to use basic attacks while animation canceling with weapon skills like venom arrow to shoot 2 arrows in a second. I don't even know even if they fixed this skill that it would give me any noticeable increase because of the way DPS is achieved in this game by animation canceling. So even after this skill is fixed this skill might be completely useless. Sorcs on the other hand get a skill like Surge that gives them something like +90 weapon damage for 30 seconds allowing them to achieve the highest weapon damage possible in the game for Single Target stamina abilities as well. So please explain to me why Sorcerers that are already the best casters can also achieve the highest possible weapon damage for single target( don't count power extraction) when NB's must be hit with a -22% weapon damage toggle in order to do any real sustainable dps with Stamina abilities.


TLDR- At the current state of the game NB DW/BOWbuilds ( the way NB's were designed to be played IMO) will never be competitive compared to casters because:

-Bow does Crap DPS at close range, DW does crap DPS at any range, and no DPS when you have to run around. Caster do the same sustainable DPS with 1 hotbar at ANY range.
-Magicka abilities do way more damage then stamina
-Our best resource sustain ability siphoning strikes reduces our weapon damage by 22%.
-Haste even when fixed may not do anything at all. To do to highest DPS in this game you need to achieve it by animation canceling.
-Sorc's achieve way higher weapon damage then NBs with Surge.
-Critical strike passive and others not working (not entirely sure)
- Mark Target 75% armor reduction isnt a big deal because mobs don't have that much armor and it doesnt give you a big increase.

JacobJ wrote: »

Honestly NB's are relatively balanced, and don't need to be buffed as much as their class skills need to be fixed. I don't want NB to be buffed in some way and become the FoTV class that gets nerfed into the ground later. As a V10 NB I feel that we as a class can be great, and can do fine in solo play whether it's PvP or questing in Veteran areas. The problem lies in that Nightblades do not have the group utility that the other classes do. We don't have a single normal non-ultimate ability that has a Synergy (even our ult synergies aren't very good). ....

__________Giant Wall of Text read above to learn more____________

.............
I've spent alot of time on this game to get to V12 and have close to max gear but one thing I'm not going to do in this game is to re-roll a sorc or DK or play a caster NB with resto staff. If the next patch does not buff NB stamina DPS builds to the level of a Sorc, DK or caster I'm unsubscribing.

damfatcow wrote: »

Veteran Rank 12 Night Blade here. Close to max gear for Dual Wield NB bow (PVP V12 Dominion Bow, Hundings rage set , Nights silence set, Night mother set , epic/legendary etc. At least 54% weapon critical for bow and dw. I know this class inside out (in this stamina department at least).

When I chose this class I wanted to Dual wield/bow and I've stuck to it because that's how I see NB's intended to play and how I want to play it. I've always tried to push it to the maximum efficiency even when I know that ill never beat a casters DPS. Done everything in this game except for fourth boss AA trial and the entire Hel Ra.This will be a long post. If anyone is interested in what the Maximum effectiveness of a Dual wield/BOW DPS NB can achieve in a group dungeon or trials compared to other classes then read on.

Heres a small class breakdown of what I've seen in the game regarding PVE in the trials and dungeons in Craglorn.

Sorcerer- Designed to be used as casters can wear light armor and be competitive by achieving dps only second to fire destro dk and OP banner. Their class serves a purpose.

Dragonknight- Designed to be tanky/some dps but completely OP at the moment with best mitagation sustain and DPS by far. No need to say more, although I rather ESO not nerf them and just balances classes to their level. Their class obviously serves a purpose and in trials (almost necessary.)

Templar- Designed to be healers/tanky. Don't know too much about temp skills but they do their job well in PVE trials from what I've seen. Their class serves a purpose as well.

Nightblades- Designed to be Dual wield/bow users with high single target sustained damage. Does not compare to the Single target damage of sorc's caster sustainable dps as a NB bow user or DW user. This class serves no purpose if you play as dual wield/bow in groups because other classes can DPS better. If I wanted to play a caster DPS I would have rolled a sorc. Even though I can match or out DPS really casual Sorcs and Dks, for the amount of time, effort, and theory crafting that I put into my Nightblade, I honestly think I should be doing way more especially since NB was designed to be played like this.


Reason why NB Stamina builds will never beat sorc casters or any caster's DPS even when pushed to the maximum with gear and skill selection.

Bow DPS- You can only use bows to maximum effectiveness if you are at max range while damaging enemy because you want that bow passive that gives you damage bonus when at max range. Even at max range, the DPS is still lower than sorcs because magicka abilities do a crap ton more damage per cast. The problem with these trials is alot of the times the enemies would be in your face and thats when your DPS takes a hit. If you weapon swap, thats already a huge decrease in DPS on the target because weapon swap although it has gotten better, is still not instantaneous like it should be and really the delay is not worth it to weapon swap when getting an enemy down RIGHT NOW is crucial for the survivability of the group. A class like sorcs on the other hand, do the same sustainable damage no matter what range they are and that DPS is better than what NBs can achieve with bow at max range.

Dual Wield DPS- Dual wield single target DPS is really not great for hard dungeons especially when you factor in the number of bosses or enemies that have to be downed from RANGE. I use dual wield for my AOE skills like steel tornado/ power extraction. Also for craglorn, if your running as DPS in your group and you dont have decent AOE spammable spell, you might as well just consider yourself a complete burden and waste of a party slot because all trash requires high AOE Damage.

Siphoning Strikes- I hate and love this skill. IMO this is one of the best NB abilities in the game as it allows you to have very high sustain on magicka and stamina and this is especially important for stamina based builds because you need to spam stamina abilities as well as do things like dodge roll and cc break. I hate this skill because it requires a sacrifice of 22% of my weapon damage and spell power in order for it to be used. Why is the damage nerf so high? Especially since NB's in general are already lacking in the DPS department compared to other classes. But I must use it for long Boss fights because 0 stamina= crap DPS.

Haste- On paper, this skill sounds like one of the best abilities weapon users could have in the game and is one of the reasons that drew me into choosing NBs because I like to attack as fast as possible in RPGs. But to achieve maximum DPS in this game you have to use basic attacks while animation canceling with weapon skills like venom arrow to shoot 2 arrows in a second. I don't even know even if they fixed this skill that it would give me any noticeable increase because of the way DPS is achieved in this game by animation canceling. So even after this skill is fixed this skill might be completely useless. Sorcs on the other hand get a skill like Surge that gives them something like +90 weapon damage for 30 seconds allowing them to achieve the highest weapon damage possible in the game for Single Target stamina abilities as well. So please explain to me why Sorcerers that are already the best casters can also achieve the highest possible weapon damage for single target( don't count power extraction) when NB's must be hit with a -22% weapon damage toggle in order to do any real sustainable dps with Stamina abilities.

PVP(off topic)- Small rant on PVP:
In a huge open enviroment like Cyrodill, really there is nothing comparable to the ability Bolt Escape. This ability might not be that powerful in a small enclosed area but we are in a huuuuge area where you can blink 20 miles away in a second to escape from danger and regenerate all your resources to reengage and destroy your enemy in an instant and rinse repeat especially with the burst potential of sorcs. Sorcs argue that they are squishy light armor so they need this but from what I've seen veteran 12 light armor sorcs with 3k+ hp are just as tanky as anyone else and they have bolt escape...Compared to NBs that have a 2.9 second invisibility and even if you spammed it, is not really comparable to instantly moving 20 miles away with the speed of bolt escape. IMO they need to buff path of darkness to give us at least 50% movespeed and NOT ONLY ON THE EFFING TINY PATH but ALWAYS for like 10-20 seconds. One of the biggest annoyances in Cyrodill is that it feels like a walking simulator even if you have a fast horse the area is so big and you can't always teleport to keeps. I'm not sure why only sorcs are able to have this huge advantage compared to other classes to just generally enjoy the gameplay of cyrodill much more. Especially if you roll with a group of sorcs and you have like 1 or 2 members that aren't sorcs, you cant catch up to them and you feel like you are dragging them down because you can be as fast as them.

TLDR- At the current state of the game NB DW/BOWbuilds ( the way NB's were designed to be played IMO) will never be competitive compared to casters because:

-Bow does Crap DPS at close range, DW does crap DPS at any range, and no DPS when you have to run around. Caster do the same sustainable DPS with 1 hotbar at ANY range.
-Magicka abilities do way more damage then stamina
-Our best resource sustain ability siphoning strikes reduces our weapon damage by 22%.
-Haste even when fixed may not do anything at all. To do to highest DPS in this game you need to achieve it by animation canceling.
-Sorc's achieve way higher weapon damage then NBs with Surge.
-Critical strike passive and others not working (not entirely sure)
- Mark Target 75% armor reduction isnt a big deal because mobs don't have that much armor and it doesnt give you a big increase.

Offtopic
- PVPing is much less enjoyable do to huge landscape unless you are a high level sorc with bolt escape. Running with a group of sorcs you feel like you are a slug compared to them and if you can't travel together efficiently as a group you feel like a burden.

I've spent alot of time on this game to get to V12 and have close to max gear but one thing I'm not going to do in this game is to re-roll a sorc or DK or play a caster NB with resto staff. If the next patch does not buff NB stamina DPS builds to the level of a Sorc, DK or caster I'm unsubscribing.

Esha76 wrote: »

damfatcow wrote: »

Bow DPS- You can only use bows to maximum effectiveness if you are at max range while damaging enemy because you want that bow passive that gives you damage bonus when at max range. Even at max range, the DPS is still lower than sorcs because magicka abilities do a crap ton more damage per cast. The problem with these trials is alot of the times the enemies would be in your face and thats when your DPS takes a hit. If you weapon swap, thats already a huge decrease in DPS on the target because weapon swap although it has gotten better, is still not instantaneous like it should be and really the delay is not worth it to weapon swap when getting an enemy down RIGHT NOW is crucial for the survivability of the group. A class like sorcs on the other hand, do the same sustainable damage no matter what range they are and that DPS is better than what NBs can achieve with bow at max range.

Dual Wield DPS- Dual wield single target DPS is really not great for hard dungeons especially when you factor in the number of bosses or enemies that have to be downed from RANGE. I use dual wield for my AOE skills like steel tornado/ power extraction. Also for craglorn, if your running as DPS in your group and you dont have decent AOE spammable spell, you might as well just consider yourself a complete burden and waste of a party slot because all trash requires high AOE Damage.

Siphoning Strikes- I hate and love this skill. IMO this is one of the best NB abilities in the game as it allows you to have very high sustain on magicka and stamina and this is especially important for stamina based builds because you need to spam stamina abilities as well as do things like dodge roll and cc break. I hate this skill because it requires a sacrifice of 22% of my weapon damage and spell power in order for it to be used. Why is the damage nerf so high? Especially since NB's in general are already lacking in the DPS department compared to other classes. But I must use it for long Boss fights because 0 stamina= crap DPS.

Haste- On paper, this skill sounds like one of the best abilities weapon users could have in the game and is one of the reasons that drew me into choosing NBs because I like to attack as fast as possible in RPGs. But to achieve maximum DPS in this game you have to use basic attacks while animation canceling with weapon skills like venom arrow to shoot 2 arrows in a second. I don't even know even if they fixed this skill that it would give me any noticeable increase because of the way DPS is achieved in this game by animation canceling. So even after this skill is fixed this skill might be completely useless. Sorcs on the other hand get a skill like Surge that gives them something like +90 weapon damage for 30 seconds allowing them to achieve the highest weapon damage possible in the game for Single Target stamina abilities as well. So please explain to me why Sorcerers that are already the best casters can also achieve the highest possible weapon damage for single target( don't count power extraction) when NB's must be hit with a -22% weapon damage toggle in order to do any real sustainable dps with Stamina abilities.


TLDR- At the current state of the game NB DW/BOWbuilds ( the way NB's were designed to be played IMO) will never be competitive compared to casters because:

-Bow does Crap DPS at close range, DW does crap DPS at any range, and no DPS when you have to run around. Caster do the same sustainable DPS with 1 hotbar at ANY range.
-Magicka abilities do way more damage then stamina
-Our best resource sustain ability siphoning strikes reduces our weapon damage by 22%.
-Haste even when fixed may not do anything at all. To do to highest DPS in this game you need to achieve it by animation canceling.
-Sorc's achieve way higher weapon damage then NBs with Surge.
-Critical strike passive and others not working (not entirely sure)
- Mark Target 75% armor reduction isnt a big deal because mobs don't have that much armor and it doesnt give you a big increase.

Nailed it. Regardless of comparison to other classes, these are serious issues with this type of build. Which is how i wanted to play my NB, and she's just broken now. And I don't want to hear anyone telling how I "should" build my character. The devs of this game did not intend to create one all mighty build you're supposed to weed out of all the abilities, for any class.

-Sorry for the long quote... but this guy knows what he is talking about.

One Two wrote: »

Most if not all of you fail to see a simple fix.


ALL our DPS skills should go off of Spell crit, not melee crit.
There is only one armor set that gives +5% melee crit but 3 that give spell crit.
Mage light gives spell crit, we dont have anything like it.

Reduce Siphoning strikes to 10% damage reduction.

and have all our damage skills go off of spell crit.

It's a horrible combo to have SPELL POWER+MAGICA+ Melee crit....

>_>

Creslian7 wrote: »

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/98003/1h-s-abilities-from-stealth-comparison-to-nb-dw-bow#latesthttp://
Since I have made that post I've had a chance to level up 2 hand and put some points into and try out a few skills. My skill level is 31 with wrecking blow at level 2. I have not purchased Momentum which has the possibility of increasing the damage by quite a bit.

From stealth- Wrecking blow with piercing mark on the target at vet rank 10 with a green weapon vet 8.--2783 (w/o piercing mark 2535).
2202 heavy attack with and 1987 heavy attack without piercing mark.

Pretty staggering numbers. Bow and DW have alot of catching up to do.

Edit: on a side note, Executioner (reverse slash morph) ends up being better damage wise than impale since it scales with the health of the target. Where impale is a set damage til 25%, Executioner will gradually get better the lower health the target gets. However, with the high cost of stamina for 2hand attacks it is still more economical to run impale.