Inventory is unmanageable

ciannait · May 2014

Who cares if I'm a "hoarder"? Kinda tired of people telling me I'm playing the game wrong because of some arbitrary limits imposed upon me for no real good reason other than to allow some players to feel superior for not being "hoarders".

Allyah · May 2014

ciannait wrote: »

Who cares if I'm a "hoarder"? Kinda tired of people telling me I'm playing the game wrong because of some arbitrary limits imposed upon me for no real good reason other than to allow some players to feel superior for not being "hoarders".

Those limits are imposed for much better reasons than allowing players to feel superior to you.
And I think most people don't mind someone being a hoarder. It's when someone starts whining about it that it becomes an issue.

badmojo · May 2014

ciannait wrote: »

Who cares if I'm a "hoarder"? Kinda tired of people telling me I'm playing the game wrong because of some arbitrary limits imposed upon me for no real good reason other than to allow some players to feel superior for not being "hoarders".

This frustration you're feeling over the limited inventory space, that's the reason. Sometimes games challenge us, sometimes games frustrate us, otherwise they wouldn't be games, they would be fairytales with happy endings.

Learn to adapt, you'll be a much happier gamer in the end.

Starlifter88 · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

Faustes wrote: »

Guild Wars 2 did an excellent job of demonstrating how to alleviate this problem. Had a bank tab for all materials, and you can deposit materials into those slots from anywhere in the game.

Does GW2 allow you to learn all crafts on a single character? No.You are limited to 2.

Correction: Yes it does. One character can learn every craft. Only two can be active at any one time and it costs to reactivate/deactivate a craft.

I'm managing all the crafts with three active and one mule character in ESO. It does get boring sorting and sifting through bank slots though.

Chrysolis · May 2014

This continuous critique of you're doing it wrong is very tired and unhelpful I must say. If the inventory system doesn't need a revamp, explain why. In all honesty, each time someone places the blame solely on my ability to get rid of superfluous items, I get the sense that you are doing it wrong. Here is my contention.

Traits: Traits take up huge amounts of space. Many trait/item combinations are very rare, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to trade one big inconvenience (inventory space) for another (finding new traits every time I want to research). Do some math with me:

There are 34 types of items in the game. Each item can have 8 different traits. Obviously I've already researched some, so let's say 5 different unresearched traits each. 34x5 = 170 / 60 Here we already have almost 3 entire characters used up to hold unresearched traits. Add on top of that trait stones (16, 8 weapon 8 armor) and we're on character #4. Do I need them? I think so. I'm not going to go from town to town screaming to buy trait items every 12 hrs - 2 days for exorbitant fees when I need to start research. To suggest I do is to say I should trade one enormous inconvenience for another. Let's not forget the 4 rare racial stones.

Provisioning: As I've said, I keep only VR1-5 (relevant) food items. Here's the chart: http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-provisioning-ingredients/
12 Tier 3 Ingredients
6 Tier 2 Ingredients
5 Primary Ingredients
12 Secondary ingredients

There goes another 35 slots for one profession. Total is now 225 indisposable items.

Enchanting: My enchanting is a little bit behind (whose isn't). So I'm still working on Potency 5, but I have runes from the upper tiers again. Don't suggest to me that I need to destroy those runes until I'm ready to make them.
http://tamrieljournal.com/crafting-and-professions/enchanting/

6 Additive Potency Runes
6 Subtractive Potency Runes
17 Essence Runes
5 Aspect Runes

34 slots for enchanting. Total is now 259.

Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing:
I tend to get 2 tiers of these at once (a tier higher than my current level, and my current level tier). So in raw materials, with 2 stacks being refined and the other stack being unrefined (accumulated as I find it), that's 9 inventory slots. I could perhaps delete my refined materials or perpetually sell them in zone, but that's not any more efficient than spending the time to bank them. Each craft has 4 improvement materials, bringing this total to 21, and a grand total of 280.

Alchemy: There are 18 types of herbs in the game. You cannot just buy water, so I also keep 2 stacks of VR1 and 2 stacks of VR5 water. That's another 22 slots. So that brings our total to 302 items you're not going to convince me are pointless. That's 5 characters completely filled out.

So now here is what you could call debatably wasteful: Crafted potions and food not currently in use (I alternate foods as I quest, pvp, or do dungeons). A set of tanking gear for dungeons. A set of training gear (1 in bags, 1 in bank) to swap to for quest completion (for those of you not yet in vet levels, you max out your current skillset and don't want to be wasting exp). Add in trophies, that's 6 characters.

Now to be fair, the 7th character is not always absolutely necessary. However this requires that I keep this equilibrium constant; I must never allow myself to go over one of each of these things, and that is where the time on inventory management is invested. So let's say I am slightly wasteful and only 6 characters are necessary. Does that seem right to you?

Chrysolis · May 2014

Updated my original post to include some of your guys' suggestions. My thanks go out to those who kept this conversation constructive and thoughtful.

babylon · May 2014

Seroczynski wrote: »

Inventory management is, again in my personal opinion, part of the game.

Strongly disagree. Inventory management is the most boring thing ever, everyone I have spoken to in the game - friends, people in guild, passing comments in chat - hate this part of the game so much. It's hated by everyone, except a couple vocal people here in the forum.

Literally hated.

I actually avoid even logging into the game at times when I know I have more boring inventory management to do, just cba - it's boring, and irritating.

It has nothing to do with games imo, and in the opinion of everyone I've come across (except for an odd handful of people here in the forum). It's the anti-fun.

Nephys · May 2014

@babylon Some people will defend the decisions of ZoS to the hilt, irrespective of whether they are logical or not. I have the same experience as you; I have yet to actually come across anyone that does not despise the inventory system and believes it to be adequate. The bottom line is, it is a tedious time sink. Certain forum posters appear to take some bizarre pride in their inventory management and they are welcome to it, but a fair percentage of us simply are not interested in spending time shunting things around.

Sendarya · May 2014

To be fair, I don't like it either, but I do like it better than the alternative, which is limiting the number of crafts you can actively do.

So again, if you hate the inventory system, then why are you not petitioning to limit crafts to 2, like most other MMO's? It really is not feasible to have all crafts available at all times AND unlimited inventory.

You are asking for something more but unwilling to give something up. There are very good reasons why most mmo's limit the number of crafts a character can actively do. ESO chose not to impose that limit, bit I don't see people happy about it or thanking them for not imposing that common limit.

My point is, even those defending the system don't much like it, but they have repeatedly pointed out why it must exist if unlimited crafting is to also exist, and some of you ignore that and act like we are just defending a crappy inventory system. We are not. We are pointing out that an MMO must limit either:
inventory
or
active crafts

ESO took the less common route, and yes it is a pain because instead of the game enforcing limits, it causes the player to enforce their own limits, and that turns out to not be working so well for many people.

Personally at this point I wish they would go the traditional route, give us all our craft points back, and force us to pick 2, then give us unlimited inventory. Much like GW2 you could learn other crafts and those skill lines would stay learned, but only have points in 2 at a time. Maybe, just maybe, it would stop these incessant inventory threads.

Would that make everyone happy?

babylon · May 2014

Nephys wrote: »

@babylon Some people will defend the decisions of ZoS to the hilt, irrespective of whether they are logical or not. I have the same experience as you; I have yet to actually come across anyone that does not despise the inventory system and believes it to be adequate. The bottom line is, it is a tedious time sink. Certain forum posters appear to take some bizarre pride in their inventory management and they are welcome to it, but a fair percentage of us simply are not interested in spending time shunting things around.

It's not just our own time we waste when we stop to juggle things in our bags and bank - it's the time of people we are grouped with in the game, or people who are waiting for us in our personal life (friends/family/spouses). Every time after a small gaming session we are forced to stop playing and go organise things, often needing to log in and out of the game to push things onto our alts.

We have to stop and apologise to people around us. It's become one of those running groanfest type jokes "oh I have to do some bankgrind"...everyone knows exactly what you mean and it's sympathy all round.

It's a really horrible system.

Seroczynski · May 2014

babylon wrote: »

Nephys wrote: »

@babylon Some people will defend the decisions of ZoS to the hilt, irrespective of whether they are logical or not. I have the same experience as you; I have yet to actually come across anyone that does not despise the inventory system and believes it to be adequate. The bottom line is, it is a tedious time sink. Certain forum posters appear to take some bizarre pride in their inventory management and they are welcome to it, but a fair percentage of us simply are not interested in spending time shunting things around.

It's not just our own time we waste when we stop to juggle things in our bags and bank - it's the time of people we are grouped with in the game, or people who are waiting for us in our personal life (friends/family/spouses). Every time after a small gaming session we are forced to stop playing and go organise things, often needing to log in and out of the game to push things onto our alts.

We have to stop and apologise to people around us. It's become one of those running groanfest type jokes "oh I have to do some bankgrind"...everyone knows exactly what you mean and it's sympathy all round.

It's a really horrible system.

I have never ever grouped up with someone who had said that, and I am VR12. You might as well mail your items to a friend who can return them to you, so you can avoid annoying the other people in your group.

babylon · May 2014

Seroczynski wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Nephys wrote: »

@babylon Some people will defend the decisions of ZoS to the hilt, irrespective of whether they are logical or not. I have the same experience as you; I have yet to actually come across anyone that does not despise the inventory system and believes it to be adequate. The bottom line is, it is a tedious time sink. Certain forum posters appear to take some bizarre pride in their inventory management and they are welcome to it, but a fair percentage of us simply are not interested in spending time shunting things around.

It's not just our own time we waste when we stop to juggle things in our bags and bank - it's the time of people we are grouped with in the game, or people who are waiting for us in our personal life (friends/family/spouses). Every time after a small gaming session we are forced to stop playing and go organise things, often needing to log in and out of the game to push things onto our alts.

We have to stop and apologise to people around us. It's become one of those running groanfest type jokes "oh I have to do some bankgrind"...everyone knows exactly what you mean and it's sympathy all round.

It's a really horrible system.

I have never ever grouped up with someone who had said that, and I am VR12. You might as well mail your items to a friend who can return them to you, so you can avoid annoying the other people in your group.

Friends will wait for you, and have to do the same as you anyway. It's just that it's not fun for either party. And mailing items costs gold, and only delays the inevitable - bringing us back to the point it's not just people online you're wasting the time of - at some point we need to organise this crap and people around us have to deal with it too.

If you're saying you've never grouped with someone who needs to do banking...then I guess you either only hang out with the small number of people who are the same as you, or don't know many people. Anyway -

They're pushing people away with all this tedium.

bugulu · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

SNIP

That explains why you are having inventory problems.
Keeping traits in the bank is an utter waste of bank space if you are in a guild.

The game is designed to have guild interaction as majority of the MMO:s are.
Keeping weapon/armor traits in the guild bank is an utter waste of inventory space. Asking guildies if they can send you that specific trait would severely diminish the problems you are facing.

But then again, if you are a loner, it will get problematic.

You post that you are only keeping relevant provisioning stuff yet you listed every single Tier 3 and Tier 2 ingridients. That's not relevant.
How often do you actually need to switch between health/magicka, health/stamina, stamina/magicka food? And to mix it up a little, do you actually use beverages together with the food?

I am a nightblade tank so I am using only health/stamina food and without an epic recipe and just using blue quality food, that is 3 inventory slots, 4 with epic.
If I stretch it out, I might use another set of food so that's 6/8 slots.
Not 35 slots.

The enchanting part I totally agree with you, I am probably using around 30+ slots myself just for enchanting.

Why are you using two sets of training gear? Shouldn't you just focus on one set first and then when that one has reached maximum level, you throw that out and use the other set? Are you trying to level three different armor trees at once (current + 2 training gear sets)?

Not to mention that the problems you are facing diminish as time goes, you are researching more traits thus getting rid of inventory slots, you will sooner or later reach higher level in that specific armor which enables you to get rid of the slots.

To give you a perspective, this is how my bank and inventory slots looks like:

http://sv.tinypic.com/r/2w66qe1/8
http://sv.tinypic.com/r/29z6bv4/8
http://sv.tinypic.com/r/jb1rex/8

And that is without having done any bank management since start of last week.
I could probably get rid of around 20-30 bank slots by deconstructing and crafting those mats I have.
Got all professions maxed out except enchanting and only got 1 bank mule to hold the treasure maps, trophies and higher level mats (Tempering Alloy, Grain Solvent etc).

I never had to waste more than a couple of minutes every day while leveling up in the bank.

Don't take this the wrong way, I am not opposed to your idea, though I don't think it's gonna change (and if it will change, it will probably take some time).
Take my post here as a mere suggestion.

Pele · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

To be fair, I don't like it either, but I do like it better than the alternative, which is limiting the number of crafts you can actively do.

Did Zenimax say that's the alternative? Is that their official stance on this matter, or is it pure speculation? I'm curious because you aren't the first to say that.

kassandratheclericb14_ESO · May 2014

I don't want to play this game to have this little "mini-game" of balancing my inventory. I actively play multiple characters so I probably have more stuff for whatever reason.

I have to be smart to decide my build, my slots for active abilities and spells...I make choices of what armor to wear...what potions to use...

Why do I have to make some balancing act about what to keep or not in my bank. So maybe I want to learn several crafts between characters or all of them on one...why can't I do that without having to make and use all my gold for 10 more bank spaces.

How will it hurt YOUR (general your not a specific reply to anyone) game to have more space for inventory (and don't give me that having to keep track server side all the extra stuff.) You can still not buy bank space (that isn't so unaffordable hopefully someday) or just use your one beginning tab and play your own balance immersion.

It really sounds like to me that those folks that are not having any issue are playing one or two characters for the most part. As such I don't think you will have as much issues.

Managing inventory is not fun to me. I'm not asking for thousands of bank tabs....just enough I can basically do what I want (if I am crafting lots of things and having fun I am more likely to keep paying.) If they are designed to make you pull out your hair because they plan to F2P this bank stuff in a store that will make me irritated.

Allyah · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

[...]
Traits: Traits take up huge amounts of space. Many trait/item combinations are very rare, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to trade one big inconvenience (inventory space) for another (finding new traits every time I want to research). Do some math with me:

There are 34 types of items in the game. Each item can have 8 different traits. Obviously I've already researched some, so let's say 5 different unresearched traits each. 34x5 = 170 / 60 Here we already have almost 3 entire characters used up to hold unresearched traits. Add on top of that trait stones (16, 8 weapon 8 armor) and we're on character #4. Do I need them? I think so. I'm not going to go from town to town screaming to buy trait items every 12 hrs - 2 days for exorbitant fees when I need to start research. To suggest I do is to say I should trade one enormous inconvenience for another. Let's not forget the 4 rare racial stones.

It should be pretty apparent to you by now which traits are rare on items. Get rid of those that aren't rare. Cut back on any type of armor/weapon you do not use or never plan to use or plan to use but not use in the near future. Keep one stack of trait stones. Keep more stacks of stones whose traits you like the most if and only if your inventory space allows. You don't need trait stones to research, you only need them to craft (and only if you want to put a trait on something). Keep rare racial stones.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Provisioning: As I've said, I keep only VR1-5 (relevant) food items. Here's the chart: http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-provisioning-ingredients/
12 Tier 3 Ingredients
6 Tier 2 Ingredients
5 Primary Ingredients
12 Secondary ingredients

There goes another 35 slots for one profession. Total is now 225 indisposable items.

Only keep food items of one type. Sell the rest. Get rid of any provisioning ingredients that you do not have the recipe for and those below your provisioning level.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Enchanting: My enchanting is a little bit behind (whose isn't). So I'm still working on Potency 5, but I have runes from the upper tiers again. Don't suggest to me that I need to destroy those runes until I'm ready to make them.
http://tamrieljournal.com/crafting-and-professions/enchanting/

6 Additive Potency Runes
6 Subtractive Potency Runes
17 Essence Runes
5 Aspect Runes

34 slots for enchanting. Total is now 259.

Enchanting is the hardest to manage inventory-wise. Only advice I can give is to use one mule for this, stop working on it temporarily, or focus mostly on Enchanting and cut back on other crafting.

Chrysolis wrote: »

Woodworking, Blacksmithing, Clothing:
I tend to get 2 tiers of these at once (a tier higher than my current level, and my current level tier). So in raw materials, with 2 stacks being refined and the other stack being unrefined (accumulated as I find it), that's 9 inventory slots. I could perhaps delete my refined materials or perpetually sell them in zone, but that's not any more efficient than spending the time to bank them. Each craft has 4 improvement materials, bringing this total to 21, and a grand total of 280.

Use the refined material. Sell the items you get from it or give it away to someone to deconstruct. You can also deconstruct it yourself but because you only get partial experience, the other options are more efficient. Keep blue, purple, and orange improvement mats and one stack of the green (more if inventory space allows).

Chrysolis wrote: »

Alchemy: There are 18 types of herbs in the game. You cannot just buy water, so I also keep 2 stacks of VR1 and 2 stacks of VR5 water. That's another 22 slots. So that brings our total to 302 items you're not going to convince me are pointless. That's 5 characters completely filled out.

Use herbs as you get them. Sell potions that you won't use, yourself (one or two types at most). Keep only the VR5 stacks of water. This is the easiest crafting to manage. Approx. 2 stacks of water, 2 alchemy herbs, 2 potions that you use. So... you just opened up 2/3 of the space you were using needlessly.

Chrysolis wrote: »

So now here is what you could call debatably wasteful: Crafted potions and food not currently in use (I alternate foods as I quest, pvp, or do dungeons). A set of tanking gear for dungeons. A set of training gear (1 in bags, 1 in bank) to swap to for quest completion (for those of you not yet in vet levels, you max out your current skillset and don't want to be wasting exp). Add in trophies, that's 6 characters.

If you never use it on the only character you currently have, get rid of it. Keeping extra sets of training gear is unnecessary. If you need to level up a certain type of armor, keep most of what you currently wear and supplement it with a couple of pieces of the different type of armor. Keep trophies/costumes that you want to keep.

Chrysolis wrote: »

[...]So let's say I am slightly wasteful and only 6 characters are necessary. Does that seem right to you?

Imprudent is a better word than wasteful and you are more than just a little imprudent with your inventory space. No, it's not right that you need 6 characters to hold your crap, and it's exactly what people have been telling you. You are a hoarder. If you wish to convince anyone otherwise, learn to prioritize what you really need to keep.

Blackwidow · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

Does GW2 allow you to learn all crafts on a single character? No.You are limited to 2.

2 per character.

Per.

Character.

ESO does not even want us to have 1 per character. If each of my characters did just 1 craft, that would still be all 6 crafts in one tiny bank.

theyancey · May 2014

So I got a new fish and a trophy last night. Now I have two less available inventory slots for other items. These type things really need to be treated like quest items and not count towards our inventory caps.

Hadria · May 2014

I don't have any problems managing my inventory while level the main professions. Stop hoarding you don't have to collect everything your lil fingers touch. If I can manage it you can too stop complaining. It's very easy.

Lodestar · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

You guys can fight to keep our banks small, but here is a fact you can not deny.

If we started with a great bank system that let each character have their own 500 slot bank space, plus a shared bank for all characters, and we could lock items so we would not accidently destroy or sell them and we could list items by level and type, not one of you fighting to keep the current bank system would come here and ask for what we have now.

Never in the history of MMOs has anyone come to a forum and complained they have too much bank space.

*applauds*

And given the reason for the changes to ColdHarbor, and the starter islands, where "if you never knew it was there you would not notice" (even though you do, there are story inconsistencies), then you used ZOS own logic.

I can see no good reason to keep the system we have. "I don;t use much so you should not" seems to be the most frequent, and best, which really is not good enough to convince me.

Iceman_mat · May 2014

80 Inventory, 1 bank upgrade

Leveling blacksmith, clothier, alchemy, enchanting, woodworking.

When I leave town I have 65 space used out of 80.

I use 1 character and no guild bank / store.

-Cheers

Chrysolis · May 2014

I think most people on these forums have an issue realizing that these threads aren't all some kind of contest. If you really think the current inventory is perfect then explain why. If you think my suggestions would be harmful in some way, explain that too. Don't just sit there and call me a hoarder and conjure up a bunch of absurd suggestions to my personal inventory management.

Allyah, as I have already noted, selling off traits for inventory space is just trading one inconvenience for another. I clearly showed I kept only 1 of each type of trait stone, on top of that. It can be as hard to find "well-fitted" on some pieces as it is to find "divines". No, maybe I won't use well-fitted, but I'll certainly use set crafting which stems from number of traits researched.
I'm not sure if you've ever actually worked on provisioning, but as I've said I only keep the VR1-5 primary ingredients. No, I'm not going to sell those off. The other ingredients run from 60-300g each on top of that, and I have recipes for all of them.
For the normal crafts, I already pointed out that I do sell the refined materials, but this is in itself inventory management.
For Alchemy, you can't merely predict every type of potion you will ever need. Potions stack up quickly, I don't need 400 elixirs of health on me at any one time.
Finally, I have already said I won't include the training set as a totally necessary use of inventory. However, I do, in fact, use it. (One set is Medium - current skill 43, the other is light, current is 45. They'll be dissembled once the training is complete).

Now, this thread isn't about me personally as I've reminded everyone a dozen times. Don't tell me your inventory is great and mine sucks. Stop trying to pick me apart because you don't agree and address the actual issue at hand. Give me the "pro-tiny-inventory" side of the argument.

P.S., Allyah: This thread is not whining, it's called constructive criticism. I brought up an issue that bothers a lot of people and raised several possible solutions to handle it.

Lodestar · May 2014

Iceman_mat wrote: »

80 Inventory, 1 bank upgrade

Leveling blacksmith, clothier, alchemy, enchanting, woodworking.

When I leave town I have 65 space used out of 80.

I use 1 character and no guild bank / store.

-Cheers

Ummm.. would you like a lollipop!?!

Nephys · May 2014

@Lodestar you are a bad bad boi. However, I think the Brits say "what do you want - a medal?"

Lodestar · May 2014

@Nephys You of all people should know by now, I am not a Brit, I am English

Besides, we only give medals for worthy things. Hint hint.

Nephys · May 2014

@Lodestar Indeed, my apologies, and you are doubly bad.

moonsugar66 · May 2014

ciannait wrote: »

Who cares if I'm a "hoarder"? Kinda tired of people telling me I'm playing the game wrong because of some arbitrary limits imposed upon me for no real good reason other than to allow some players to feel superior for not being "hoarders".

I'm getting tired of people getting away with calling people like you "hoarders". If you were to call them something like say, tight@ss or space ***, you'd get in trouble. So be careful, there are some obvious double standards in play here.

gurugeorgey · May 2014

If you hoard there are consequences for your inventory and it becomes difficult to manage. I don't see any problem. It's a choice. Obviously the game is designed to make you choose carefully what you keep, and if you care about your inventory, then inventory management is a part of the game, that's the design, make of it what you will.

You could just not care and sell everything. Or any number of possible stages inbetween.

Also, the game has a sim element - beyond a certain point, a gigantic inventory just becomes a silly contrivance that bears no relation to any modelled (albeit fantasy) reality. Nobody in reality has infinite "inventory space" in their lives, we always have to select and reject, constantly. I suppose you could model a "pocket dimension" to fill with crap, and I recall there were some mods for Oblivion that did that

It always amazes me when people imply we are forced into any sort of behaviour in an MMO. It's your choice to do something that's giving you pain, if the pleasure you're getting is less than the pain it costs, stop. e.g., if grinding is enjoyable, grind, if it ceases to be enjoyable, don't grind. "But I can only get the shiny I want if I grind" - yep, WAI, if you want it you have to work for it. If you don't want to grind, stop wanting the shiny, because the wanting the shiny is what's making you grind, not the developers. "But I want the shiny because without it I can't compete". So, if you want to compete, grind, if you don't want to grind, don't compete; and if you don't want to compete, you won't have to grind.

moonsugar66 · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Never in the history of MMOs has anyone come to a forum and complained they have too much bank space.

ikr??!

I reflected on this in a similar thread back in beta. It seems the anti more space people prefer a cramped efficiency apartment style bank as opposed to a more adequate amount of space. Crazy, indeed!

Lodestar · May 2014

moonsugar66 wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Never in the history of MMOs has anyone come to a forum and complained they have too much bank space.

ikr??!

I reflected on this in a similar thread back in beta. It seems the anti more space people prefer a cramped efficiency apartment style bank as opposed to a more adequate amount of space. Crazy, indeed!

I think the post above you is telling. "There are consequences for your inventory choices"

In other words. Good your unhappy, I need that to make myself feel good.

I really can not believe all these detractors to the OP are really blind loving fanboy's. I think it is about coming in and taking a shot to feel better. I have not read any good counter point at all.

I mean I get some may feel this is not such a big deal, and I am happy to acknowledge that. But then,they seem to spent an awful lot of time and resources making a thread bigger saying the same thing over and over with text walls.

Must be invested in something to go to all that effort.