Death recap makes hacking even more obvious.

PetitPangolin · May 2014

Hello Zenimax.

My guild mate made a couple of nice posts reporting many bugs, abuses and hackings used in PvP in the French section on the forum to help you fight this scourge (hoho) but since all he had in answer was a censorship "because it would be dangerous and make a bad advertising to the game" instead of any actual answer or interest I'll try to make a post here hoping that english admins will be more honest and respectful.

First I probably wont learn anybody that ESO is plagued with cheats and abuses.

Being part of a hardcore PvP guild we lately noticed and big increasment of macros and dodging bots. People who can dodge an instant spell you cast while behind them and invisible. Or who can launch their healing spell everytime at the very second they should get executed, dozens of times.

We also noticed a development of animation-cutting programs. One single guy is now able to repair a wall from 0 to 100% in about 3 seconds.

But the most interesting point is, as the title says, the death recap now gives up another solid proof of what we all knew and reported hundred of times without any reaction

So we had demonstration thanks to the death recap that a nightblade can kill a massive vr10 tank is 5 secs using 50+ attacks in this lenght of time while the game only is able to show 5 basic attacks.

No need to tell that this guys was reported by dozens of players with screenshots and that nothing happened. He by the way might be the next emperor of the new campaign if his faction ever manages to conquer the ring. Probably Zenimax will then make a nice interview of this great player to show everybody how great their PvP system currently is and promote the game.

We can of course give all screens and proofs on demand but I'm not going to include them in this post since all our previous report were closed and censored when we did so.

I also have to inform you that we are, with many french players from various PvP guilds, establishing a new list of all bug abusing and hacks which can be seen in PvP and their users with videos and screenshots as proofs. This list will be translated and posted on every ESO related webistes and forum since the previous one was only posted here (on the french part) and got instantly deleted without any reaction since then.

We'll also include screenshot of (French) admins telling us why we can't talk about cheats and abuses on official forum and why our posts get deleted and those of (French) support telling a player asking kindly for help to *** off and go google to look for an answer to his problem.

I'm sure it will make an amazing promotion to this game, which is already so successfull.

It's of course up to you to give an apropriated answer to this problems and actualy act against cheats and hacks instead of censoring talkings about it. And maybe answer to the few legit players trying to help you improve this game who didn't ran away yet instead of threatening them.

Original French post here (the last and only one which was not deleted... yet): http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/101756/cheat-encore-plus-visible-en-pvp#latest

Fuzzylumpkins · May 2014

This would not bode well for ZOS to respond to or even address in any fashion so they will not. I must say working in code writing and development myself, this game is among the easiest to fish up macros and codes in and bind or write in general based quite simply on the limited abilities players are given and the synergy between those abilities. In fact this game is even more exposed to botters due to each and every player/bot having and being able to counter any and all spells/players actions. The AI has the distinct advantage of targeting or recognising threats at the exact moment a situation presents itself where as actual players have to respond to the clunky UI and mechanics and terrible response from using an ability and it actually connecting.

skarvika · May 2014

Well sadly my friend, if they do get around to addressing this issue, the cheaters won't be punished...they'll just nerf the hell out of more skills that don't need to be nerfed and lose another chunk of their playerbase.

Seriously though, hope it all works out for you.

rawne1980b16_ESO · May 2014

PetitPangolin wrote: »

So we had demonstration thanks to the death recap that a nightblade can kill a massive vr10 tank is 5 secs using 50+ attacks in this lenght of time while the game only is able to show 5 basic attacks.

If it took over 50 attacks in 5 seconds to take one tank then more nerfs are needed.

PetitPangolin · May 2014

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

If it took over 50 attacks in 5 seconds to take one tank then more nerfs are needed.

Nah, they'd rather nerf basics attacks since it seems 5 of them can kill a tank...

Btw basic light attacks aren't supposed to do big damages, skills, spells and heavy attacks are supposed to do so. I don't think it's weird that a tank using defensive abilities needs a lot of them to get down.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2014

I always knew the French were a bunch of cheaters!

Aeradon · May 2014

That employee is probably getting fired.

LareliRose · May 2014

Have you tried editing out the player's name and posting the screen shots?

Millionaires · May 2014

Naming and shaming isn't tolerated on any game that I've seen, the Customer Support rep did his job correctly, if you want to post screenshots block all names and character avatars, this includes your name and then post it.

MalavarTCOne · May 2014

I cannot upvote this thread enough.

Endocet · May 2014

Please link some screenshots. Thanks!

SilentThunder · May 2014

A couple of thing here. First how do you see 50 attacks in the death recap thing ? all I see is the last 5 or so. 2nd its entirely possible what your seeing on the Euro mega server is coming from lag where a large number of attacks are registering all at once when the server catches up. Pretty much every thing else you mentioned could easily be caused by lag as well. Currently the Euro server is physically located in NA so yall get a lot of lag from the distance. I hear plans are in to change the server farm location to Europe so things should improve

Aeradon · May 2014

SilentThunder wrote: »

Currently the Euro server is physically located in NA so yall get a lot of lag from the distance. I hear plans are in to change the server farm location to Europe so things should improve

I really don't see how that is going to help the current people having problems.

I'm playing from Asia and I have no problems with latency.

rawne1980b16_ESO · May 2014

Aeradon wrote: »

I really don't see how that is going to help the current people having problems.

I'm playing from Asia and I have no problems with latency.

We do have a problem with it in EU, in Cyrodiil mainly.

Quite a lot of people complaining about it. Quite a lot of folk get dc'd after a big lag spike and then get eternal loading screens trying to get back on.

Epona222 · May 2014

rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Aeradon wrote: »

I really don't see how that is going to help the current people having problems.

I'm playing from Asia and I have no problems with latency.

We do have a problem with it in EU, in Cyrodiil mainly.

Quite a lot of people complaining about it. Quite a lot of folk get dc'd after a big lag spike and then get eternal loading screens trying to get back on.

To be fair, it happens on NA servers to players in NA too - that issue in particular seems to be something other than distance to server lag. It happens regularly to the NA guild I am in. If it just happened to me (I keep odd hours, hence I am in a NA based guild), I could accept it as being a distance to server type ping issue, but half to three-quarters of the group gets kicked at the same time, regardless of where they are based in relation to the server.

PetitPangolin · May 2014

Millionaires wrote: »

Naming and shaming isn't tolerated on any game that I've seen, the Customer Support rep did his job correctly, if you want to post screenshots block all names and character avatars, this includes your name and then post it.

Doing their job may also have included banning cheaters and abusers when they're reported 50+ times for weeks with evidences, just my opinion.

But I have to tell you that the first list we published did not contain names or shaming, only a list of exploits and hacks which needed to be fixed.

SilentThunder wrote: »

A couple of thing here. First how do you see 50 attacks in the death recap thing ? all I see is the last 5 or so. 2nd its entirely possible what your seeing on the Euro mega server is coming from lag where a large number of attacks are registering all at once when the server catches up. Pretty much every thing else you mentioned could easily be caused by lag as well. Currently the Euro server is physically located in NA so yall get a lot of lag from the distance. I hear plans are in to change the server farm location to Europe so things should improve

I guess you only see damages dealt during the last 5 secs, or maybe usually 5 or so attacks are enough to get you down.

Second point it's true that we sometimes have a bit of lag but it's not so usual and I'm sure that it's not the problem here since a lag should include, for exemple, someone being frozen for a few secs then executing all his actions instantly when the server catches back. Here the guys is playing normal, doesn't seem to have any lag in any action but can deal unatural amount of damages to everyone when he comes to infighting. And it didn't happen once or twice, he always does it and everybody noticed something was wrong on the serv.
I've seen lags making people teleport or freeze then deal many attacks with the game showing the speed difference but here, the guys just looks regular and only the death recaps (+ the impossible amount of damages) proves us that he actually launched so many attacks in this amount of time.

Akhratos · May 2014

Animation overlapping + macroing software.

Gisgo · May 2014

I dont know, but this doesnt sound the usual QQ cheaters thread, it sounds like the OP know what he is talking about.
If you have proofs, keep sending them to Zos.
I would like to see some of those death recaps, maybe you can paint the names black and post them?

Censorious · May 2014

This isn't entirely unexpected. The explosion of bots has shown there is something seriously hackable about the system. It simply shouldn't be possible to teleport around so freely.
With my own eyes I've seen bots running at high speed several feet of the ground, one after another like a string of beads on a wire. If that sort of thing is possible, a simple dodge or block or heal response to attack would be child's play.

I don't think the OPs outrage is justified though - I mean, what does he want? A personal apology? a bunch of roses?
Zenimax are understandably trying to keep a lid on the panic and they will react more strongly to damaging publicity than the original cause. If I were in charge, the OPs account would be suspended and his posts deleted (sorry - no offence intended - it's just good business sense).

twev · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

This isn't entirely unexpected. The explosion of bots has shown there is something seriously hackable about the system. It simply shouldn't be possible to teleport around so freely.
With my own eyes I've seen bots running at high speed several feet of the ground, one after another like a string of beads on a wire. If that sort of thing is possible, a simple dodge or block or heal response to attack would be child's play.

I don't think the OPs outrage is justified though - I mean, what does he want? A personal apology? a bunch of roses?
Zenimax are understandably trying to keep a lid on the panic and they will react more strongly to damaging publicity than the original cause. If I were in charge, the OPs account would be suspended and his posts deleted (sorry - no offence intended - it's just good business sense).

The lid is never kept on for long, and when the lid blows off, as it always does, you have the original mess to clean up plus the additional issue of showing the world that you were more interested in hiding than fixing issues.

That right there can be a public relations nightmare bigger than any amount of free additional hours, or granted bonus' stuffs will ever be able to buy off.

A reputation earned as a game company that rewards the cheats and punishes the people who wish to play honestly will most certainly devolve the player base as serious gamers move to places they feel they are taken seriously and hackers/cheaters move in to harvest the easy pickings.

zaria · May 2014

As I understand mods who give even better feedback than death recap has been out long, including stuff like total combat log with time stamps for hits should give far better data.

Baphomet · May 2014

@PetitPangolin, thank you for creating this thread. Some in my guild have been suspecting cheating/hacking in Cyrodiil, and this...

So we had demonstration thanks to the death recap that a nightblade can kill a massive vr10 tank is 5 secs using 50+ attacks in this lenght of time while the game only is able to show 5 basic attacks.

... has killed me on a couple of occations on the NA Wabbajack campaign. It was the same nightblade player who did it. Everytime I would get in melee range to dark talong him *boom*. All 3000 HP lost even while blocking.

Since the death recap, I've been waiting for it to happen again so that I can screen shot it.

Until now I had no explanation to what was causing the insta-death other than it was nightblade characters. Now I at least have a plausible explanation. Thank you.

Reykice · May 2014

They also had a skill that was able to 1shot people when charged.... it was now fixed. So if it happens just screen shot it...

Sheneria · May 2014

dodge,block and stunbreak macros are pretty much in since the beginning.real shame that ZOS doesn't seam to care about it.

reggielee · May 2014

dont know why anyone still continues to pvp when it was obvious the first week of game launch that it was overrun by exploiting, cheating, speed and infinite stamina hacking idiots.

there is no point to it anymore and wont be unless they wipe the slates clean after fixing all these cheats

Censorious · May 2014

twev wrote: »

The lid is never kept on for long, and when the lid blows off, as it always does, you have the original mess to clean up plus the additional issue of showing the world that you were more interested in hiding than fixing issues.

That right there can be a public relations nightmare bigger than any amount of free additional hours, or granted bonus' stuffs will ever be able to buy off.

A reputation earned as a game company that rewards the cheats and punishes the people who wish to play honestly will most certainly devolve the player base as serious gamers move to places they feel they are taken seriously and hackers/cheaters move in to harvest the easy pickings.

The lid only needs to stay on long enough for the current directors to make their CV look good for the next job. The art of management being to get out just before the fan engages the brown.
The public relations nightmare is therefore someone else's problem.
The only people who might suffer are the shareholders - but they will also be busy getting the best price for their shares at the point where the initial sales hype has pulled the maximum number of punters.

This is big business, not a bunch of jolly chaps having a great time inventing stuff for fun. The overworked staff, particularly the Public Relations suckers will be getting close to breaking point about now. All this negative stuff is REALLY going to help them. (Out the door and off to the next job asap.)

twev · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

show previous quotes

twev wrote: »

The lid is never kept on for long, and when the lid blows off, as it always does, you have the original mess to clean up plus the additional issue of showing the world that you were more interested in hiding than fixing issues.

That right there can be a public relations nightmare bigger than any amount of free additional hours, or granted bonus' stuffs will ever be able to buy off.

A reputation earned as a game company that rewards the cheats and punishes the people who wish to play honestly will most certainly devolve the player base as serious gamers move to places they feel they are taken seriously and hackers/cheaters move in to harvest the easy pickings.

The lid only needs to stay on long enough for the current directors to make their CV look good for the next job. The art of management being to get out just before the fan engages the brown.
The public relations nightmare is therefore someone else's problem.
The only people who might suffer are the shareholders - but they will also be busy getting the best price for their shares at the point where the initial sales hype has pulled the maximum number of punters.

This is big business, not a bunch of jolly chaps having a great time inventing stuff for fun. The overworked staff, particularly the Public Relations suckers will be getting close to breaking point about now. All this negative stuff is REALLY going to help them. (Out the door and off to the next job asap.)

In all seriousness, I appreciate your well reasoned and worded response.

I wish you well.

Hridh · May 2014

They really need to pull devs from their long week-end holiday to get some urgent actions and answers on these matters... both the in-game aspects, but also the communications bits (what for people from Scourge? Why is the French forum more heavily censored / gets less information?)

zaria · May 2014

Censorious wrote: »

show previous quotes

twev wrote: »

The lid is never kept on for long, and when the lid blows off, as it always does, you have the original mess to clean up plus the additional issue of showing the world that you were more interested in hiding than fixing issues.

That right there can be a public relations nightmare bigger than any amount of free additional hours, or granted bonus' stuffs will ever be able to buy off.

A reputation earned as a game company that rewards the cheats and punishes the people who wish to play honestly will most certainly devolve the player base as serious gamers move to places they feel they are taken seriously and hackers/cheaters move in to harvest the easy pickings.

The lid only needs to stay on long enough for the current directors to make their CV look good for the next job. The art of management being to get out just before the fan engages the brown.
The public relations nightmare is therefore someone else's problem.
The only people who might suffer are the shareholders - but they will also be busy getting the best price for their shares at the point where the initial sales hype has pulled the maximum number of punters.

This is big business, not a bunch of jolly chaps having a great time inventing stuff for fun. The overworked staff, particularly the Public Relations suckers will be getting close to breaking point about now. All this negative stuff is REALLY going to help them. (Out the door and off to the next job asap.)

Tinfoil hat off
I wounder why Zenimark has not pumped out elder scroll games every year or at least every second year EA or COD style.
It would generate far higher and predictable income over an 4-5 year period than something as high risk and long term as an MMO?
Make me wonder why they did not released the console version at planned time, as the game goes to hell it would make far more sense to release it in the state it is and get the console sale income this year.

That you are saying is true in some businesses, most common is to sell off part of company who don't have high revenue to make the profit margin look better over to downright fraud like cutting development and marketing for an short term profit.
None is relevant here.

however its far more common that middle management hide or report wrong stuff to save their own asses, this happen everyplace from 20 man workplaces to governmental organisations.

However tinfoil hats epic gear

zaria · May 2014

Baphomet wrote: »

@PetitPangolin, thank you for creating this thread. Some in my guild have been suspecting cheating/hacking in Cyrodiil, and this...
show previous quotes

So we had demonstration thanks to the death recap that a nightblade can kill a massive vr10 tank is 5 secs using 50+ attacks in this lenght of time while the game only is able to show 5 basic attacks.

... has killed me on a couple of occations on the NA Wabbajack campaign. It was the same nightblade player who did it. Everytime I would get in melee range to dark talong him *boom*. All 3000 HP lost even while blocking.

Since the death recap, I've been waiting for it to happen again so that I can screen shot it.

Until now I had no explanation to what was causing the insta-death other than it was nightblade characters. Now I at least have a plausible explanation. Thank you.

Yes NB has some protection here because of high burst damage making them good at killing single targets fast.

Don't remember but does the death recap show the player who did the attack?

bg22 · May 2014

So... I'm a VR10 NB, and I can kill a VR10 tank in 5-6 seconds from stealth w/o exploiting, so how does the death recap show he's hitting him 50 times if it only shows the last 5 attacks?

Also, what is your tank doing that he has that much health to rate 50 hits? Is he a world boss or?

I think you've discovered a NB that knows how to play his class. I'm open minded tho, so prove me wrong if you can.