Templar without spear possible?

Sakiri · May 2014

I think the main reason Ive been avoiding the templar is that damn spear. Unsure why but it drives me nuts.

I have a sorc and dk in vr content and Im waiting for a guildie to catch up so Im pondering another alt.

I cant get the hang of nb. Id like to do a melee skirmisher but I hate the spear.

Suggestions for a build?

zshadez_ESO · May 2014

Don't use the spear. Problem solved.

Cabot · May 2014

In this conversation we all really know there are no spears in this game right?

What you are referring to is a staff.

There are a lot of builds for a templar that don't include a staff. Some don't even have healing spells. Between the javelin and fire spells from class, and your melee/bow weapons' skill tree, I think you'd do just fine.

Bittercold · May 2014

Cabot wrote: »

In this conversation we all really know there are no spears in this game right?

What you are referring to is a staff.

There are a lot of builds for a templar that don't include a staff. Some don't even have healing spells. Between the javelin and fire spells from class, and your melee/bow weapons' skill tree, I think you'd do just fine.

No what he or she is referring to is a spear. Aedric spear skill line has an actual spear animation for some of its skills.

I have heard a similar thing from people who have a problem with night blade skills that make a dagger. Some people using a staff don't want to see another weapon pulled from no where.

Honestly TC, there really isn't anything to stopped you from having a templar without spear looking attacks. Only reason would be maybe min/max but then that usually is a conflict for a look or theme.

You have 2 bar for a total of 10 skills. 1 class line of heals and buffs, 1 solar and 1 spear. However only 3 skills in the spear line are spear attacks, plus ultimate.

Could do a stamina build and for the few magic skill use heals, buffs, or any of the non spear attacks. Not to mention with a magic build, between guild and class you have plenty to choose.

If I had more templar experience I would list specific skills but my experience with them is limited.

Sakiri · May 2014

No.

Im talking about that damned annoying aedric spear line that seems to be the staple of all melee damage builds.

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

I think s/he is referring to the actual spear skill line and IF that is the case.....

There is 1 ability from the spear line needed and it is Binding Javelin(Piercing Javelin Upgraded). This is basically the Templars ONLY class crowd control you get.

IF your willing to use a weapon that will always bring CC then you can play without using the spear line at all.

Lack of CC makes the game WAY harder than it should be.

Talmet · May 2014

Cabot wrote: »

In this conversation we all really know there are no spears in this game right?

What you are referring to is a staff.

There are a lot of builds for a templar that don't include a staff. Some don't even have healing spells. Between the javelin and fire spells from class, and your melee/bow weapons' skill tree, I think you'd do just fine.

He means the spear tree....he doesn't want to use the spear tree...

Is that possible? yes.
Is it wise? idk...some good skills in that tree

Phantorang · May 2014

The Templar DOES have a spear, its a class skill line called Aedric Spear. But if its that you are talking about, or a staff, Im not sure. its possible to make a Templar without even touching those skills, not all of the skills in that skill line involves the use of a spear though, Sun Shield is completely without it, but I believe you need to level Aedric Spear to use it.

Even without any of the skills in Aedric Spear, you can make a viable Templar.

If its staff you are talking about, and you dont like it, drop it. Use a bow instead, because I think you should have a ranged non-magica dependent attack. Bow is nice with alot of cool skills and good dps. Your melee set can be anything of your choice, depending on what role you would like to play, tank should have 1h+shield, as a dps you can go 2h or dual wield.

METALPUNKS · May 2014

You don't want a spear yet a spear is the weapon everyone wants most, added later lol. Kidding. I think it's totally viable. I ran Templar and totally avoided that tree and did fine. Just use some melee weapon skills unless of course your build requires those magic based skills from the tree then I don't know man.

TicToc · May 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

No.

Im talking about that damned annoying aedric spear line that seems to be the staple of all melee damage builds.

It's the staple of Templar melee builds because it is the melee focused skill line. The other two lines are healing and casting lines.

I'm not sure why it annoys you, The spear is one of the reasons i took it. It is a weapon unique to Templars. To each his own, I guess.

Sure, you can get by without using the Aedric Spear line, but you will have to accept casting as part of your melee build, or implement more skills from guild, armor, and weapon lines. If you do the latter, there is not much point in playing a Templar over another class that has melee focused skills that don't annoy you.

IMO, if you want to do a "melee skirmisher", and don't want to use the Templar's melee skill line, you might want to try another class. You won't be getting melee skirmisher abilities out of the remaining skills. You would be better off choosing another class. It looks like you have not played a NB yet. That might be better for you.

MercyKilling · May 2014

I've got a templar without the aedric spear line, and I do just fine.
Also, for the record, the very first power in the sun line (solar?) has a snare component. I know this because every time I hit a flying mob with it, I get a brief message "Flying mobs are immune to snares". Not only that, but it applies the snare to the two closest other mobs to your target.

TicToc · May 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

I've got a templar without the aedric spear line, and I do just fine.
Also, for the record, the very first power in the sun line (solar?) has a snare component. I know this because every time I hit a flying mob with it, I get a brief message "Flying mobs are immune to snares". Not only that, but it applies the snare to the two closest other mobs to your target.

It is not a matter of being able to play a Templar without that line, it is a matter of playing a Templar as a "melee skirmisher", which is what the OP wants to do. If he doesn't mind being part caster, then the Dawn's Wrath line would work, but i don't think that is what he is looking for.

Jade · May 2014

Well no one is really gonna give you props or care that you went out of your way to not use spear. It's a great skill and I guess you just to try and be different. Bucking popular norms doesn't make you cool or unique, just makes you hard to work with.

Turial · May 2014

Talmet wrote: »

Cabot wrote: »

In this conversation we all really know there are no spears in this game right?

What you are referring to is a staff.

There are a lot of builds for a templar that don't include a staff. Some don't even have healing spells. Between the javelin and fire spells from class, and your melee/bow weapons' skill tree, I think you'd do just fine.

He means the spear tree....he doesn't want to use the spear tree...

Is that possible? yes.
Is it wise? idk...some good skills in that tree

This pretty much sums it up, if you don't like you don't have to use it but it's pretty good skill line, hence why you see it so often. You have a choice of skills to choose from though, go with your weapon skills, fighters guild skill, etc.

Play it your way as they say and you don't want to play spear, that's fine

Coggage · May 2014

Cabot wrote: »

In this conversation we all really know there are no spears in this game right?

Gee, well, there's always Aedric Spear, which Templars generally use a lot.

KerinKor · May 2014

Jade wrote: »

Well no one is really gonna give you props or care that you went out of your way to not use spear. It's a great skill and I guess you just to try and be different. Bucking popular norms doesn't make you cool or unique, just makes you hard to work with.

By "work with" I presume you're alluding to playing in a group .. if a Templar isn't using S+B then clearly he's not going to be tanking in the usual sense, in which case here's there for healing/DPS and Dawn's Wrath can do some serious DPS.

Just because cookie-cutters use the spear line without thinking doesn't mean not doing so is in any way gimped.

dagnome · May 2014

The only spear based ability I use as of now is Binding Javelin simply because it is a great control ability and when your using a Bow having that range ability with the increased knock down is great.

TicToc · May 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

Jade wrote: »

Well no one is really gonna give you props or care that you went out of your way to not use spear. It's a great skill and I guess you just to try and be different. Bucking popular norms doesn't make you cool or unique, just makes you hard to work with.

By "work with" I presume you're alluding to playing in a group .. if a Templar isn't using S+B then clearly he's not going to be tanking in the usual sense, in which case here's there for healing/DPS and Dawn's Wrath can do some serious DPS.

Just because cookie-cutters use the spear line without thinking doesn't mean not doing so is in any way gimped.

I don't think that's what he meant, at all. I believe that he meant "hard to work with" at a personal level. When you arbitrarily dismiss the most obvious and practical choice just to buck the status quo, you make things unnecessarily complicated.

You, like several others, have missed the point that he did not ask if Templar's were viable without the spear line, he specifically stated that he wanted to be a melee skirmisher type character. He doesn't want to heal, and does not want to be a caster, which really rules the other two trees out, as well.

Without the spear tree a Templar is still viable, if you don't mind playing more of a hybrid class, but to be a pure melee class without the spear line would require borrowing too much from other non-skill lines, and if you are going to skip all the class skills, you are probably better off choosing another class that has melee based skills that you don't mind using.

reggielee · May 2014

the animation and sound for the spear skill puncturing strikes gets on my bloody nerves. I look at mages wiggling their fingers and staffs and wish I looked that cool. heh piercing javelin looks kinda cool tho

for the OP...you can go sword/board and resto staff ,tho you will just have to suck it up and use some of those spear skills till they come up with new trees in the long long future. the animation for most of them isnt so bad.

MercyKilling · May 2014

Melee skirmisher.
Sword and board with self heals. Seems a fairly easy thing to do.

Phantorang · May 2014

Shaun98ca2 wrote: »

I think s/he is referring to the actual spear skill line and IF that is the case.....

There is 1 ability from the spear line needed and it is Binding Javelin(Piercing Javelin Upgraded). This is basically the Templars ONLY class crowd control you get.

IF your willing to use a weapon that will always bring CC then you can play without using the spear line at all.

Lack of CC makes the game WAY harder than it should be.

CC as in Crowd Control is a strong word, as it is a single target ability only. And Its not the only one, Sun Fire which is the first spell in Dawns Wrath is a single target "CC" too. The only actual CC we get is the morphed version of Sun Fire, Reflective Light, which snares up to 3 enemy targets.

Sarenia · May 2014

If it helps to rationalize the spear, note that class abilities are all spawned from magicka. The spear itself, just like nightblade spells creating daggers, doesn't actually exist as a physical object. It's a magical manifestation.

Tarwin · May 2014

Didn't even take that line and I'm happy

Bhakura · May 2014

Well, made an imperial templar in beta, only with heal skills and twohander and pretty much roflstomped everything including worldbosses, but thats of course lowlevel content, anything can roflstomp that.
If it would work past vet, id have to create it again but it seemed very reliable at that time.

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO · May 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

I think the main reason Ive been avoiding the templar is that damn spear. Unsure why but it drives me nuts.

After all the horrors of the first month, i.e. bots and farmers, every time I see someone using Aedric Spear I get a nagging sensation that bots are about since it was the class/weapon of choice for botters.

Inner grievances aside, the skill is pretty awesome and I can't see how anyone would intentionally choose not to use it...

Thunder · May 2014

My first character was a templar light spell caster, and I found that rather effective. However, now that my sorc has caught up to him (passed him actually, as I've been waiting on a friend with my templar), I definitely think my sorc is a little more powerful.

So I'd say a non-spear templar is definitely viable. Keep in mind, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of abilities available to a templar, and at any given time you can only use 5, so I would find it very hard to believe that any one ability is supreme to all others in every situation.

temjiu · May 2014

My templars main setup is a bow, and i dont' even have a spear line trait slotted for it.

My backup build, 2h, has spear...only because it helps clear crowds decently. you could sub in cleave with the damage shield morph and you'd probably be fine. you don't have to use it.

But like any other circumstance where a skill trumps just about every other skill, it gets used allot. i tend to avoid using it for that reason alone

I tend to be an anti-conformist myself.

But outside of the trend, and the bots using like like crazy, its a viable skill. probably OP...I could see it getting nerfed in the future. But you don't have to use it.

Kendaric · May 2014

pavelcherepanskyrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Inner grievances aside, the skill is pretty awesome and I can't see how anyone would intentionally choose not to use it...

Some players may want a non-magic feel for their characters (I know I do with many of my characters). Unfortunately, the way the game is set up, you're basically required to use that flashy magic stuff to be viable as stamina abilities don't even remotely compare to class abilities and stamina is used to power too many essential things such as blocking/dodging.

ExiledKhallisi · May 2014

I have 0 points in aedric spear class line and am light armour wearing pure DPS/heals hybrid with restored staff and I absolutely destroy enemies playing more like a mage that can heal.

AngryNord · May 2014

Sakiri wrote: »

No.

Im talking about that damned annoying aedric spear line that seems to be the staple of all melee damage builds.

That "damn annoying" line is possibly _the_ best skill line if you want a Templar...

jesterstear · May 2014

Can anyone clarify what exactly is a Skirmisher? It implies fairly squishy, high dps and fast moving?

My Templar does not use Aedric Spear at all.

She's a tank with offhealing ability (primary weapon sword and shield), and has a restoration staff secondary weapon for more serious healing or for mobs that absolutely cannot be fought melee.

As such I need high health, and have one jewellry item to boost each of my three regens as i need all 3 - unlike a pure caster, I cannot ignore Stamina and health regen, or like a pure weapon class i cannot ignore Magicka.

This means I have low Stamina and Magika scores and have no "cost reduction jewelleries" (they only make sense if you've already softcapped regen on the stat in question and are stacking the cost reduction with multiple buffs , since each successive reduction becomes a bigger portion of the skill cost). So, my skills have a poor cost/benefit ratio.

As a tanky type, I am not looking to burst DPS my targets down, but to outlast them, and for the reasons I just gave, would be poorly suited to doing so. I am looking to trade hit points and stamina and magicka points with my enemy at the most favourable ratio. DoTs and HoTs win here hands down. Vampire's bane, over the course of the DoT, does almost two points of damage for every point of Magicka it cost, wheras any direct damage skills I can equip have a cost exceeding their damage. Similarly the Mage Guild skill "Entropy" costs about 180 Magika but does about 150 damage and heals about 150 over 12 seconds, so it's a comparative "bargain".

So , for these reasons, I've ignored Aedric Spear. I don't want costly direct damage skills, i'm a melee tank so I have no great need for knockback skills (though a "sleep" spell that I could cast at ranged mobs would be very cool).