madmufffin wrote: »

Scammy YouTubers selling bad builds to the [snip] by showcasing "broken" damage against their friends in PVE gear while they're running a Order's Wrath and Soulcleaver to get a max tick Swallow Soul and pretend the class is viable now lol. All the [snip] DK players will happily bully the new wave of NB players following these YouTube builds.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

On top of it having a higher unbuffed tooltip than surprise attack/whip/wrecking blow/concealed weapon/any other spammable really.

It’s very cheap to use (around 2k mag only).
It heals you for 42% of the damage it does.

It’s ranged and very easy to use - unlike for example flame lash which required you to put people off balance and making you waste one bar to slot the scribe one.

Just hypocritical and another great example why the zos dev combat team should not be listening to random people on the forums who are clearly biased and don’t mind their main class being made absolutely busted and overpowered.

Those screenshots I took that you're clearly judging it by were with soulcleaver and buffs, not unbuffed, and that included being in combat with soulcleaver. Swallow soul is only stronger than concealed next patch when running the set dedicated to buffing it, at the cost of running something like null arca for better burst.

Just cast fleetstep wings, dk still has a much stronger kit overall than siphoner magblade.

madmufffin wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Scammy YouTubers selling bad builds to the plebs by showcasing "broken" damage against their friends in PVE gear while they're running a Order's Wrath and Soulcleaver to get a max tick Swallow Soul and pretend the class is viable now lol. All the degenerate DK players will happily bully the new wave of NB players following these YouTube builds.

There’s nothing scammy when the Swallow Soul on PTS is stronger than update 49 Flame Lash, capable of absurd at a low cost, without any conditions and healing.
You can’t complain about DKs and WWs and find this balanced and fine, you’re just lying to yourself and everyone else.

You and the other Nightblade mains who try to say this is not overturned and broken, will end up hurting the game in the long run as you might get a couple of months or 3 with this busted ability only for the combat team to have to waste time and resources nerfing it instead of dedicating those on the warden refresh.
And then everyone will be whining the class reworks are taking forever

A spammable needing an entire 5 piece set dedicated to making it comparable to vanilla spammables without any commitment for other classes is not broken. If you don't understand the basic concept of opportunity costs and can only conceptualize number on screen, then that sounds like a you problem. I am also not a NB main or even player. The class is in a state where it's not even worth crafting gear to test with.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

First of all I am not a main DK. Even if I was to play my DK and cast wings, I’ll have to sacrifice something else for it and potentially avoid having fossilize which will let you run around all map spamming your stuff.

Swallow soul is completely broken thanks to its synergy with the weapon dmg boosting mastery and soulcleaver sure. They don’t have to sacrifice anything though as they can slot a set like oakfathers or tfs along with monomyth, use vate staff on back bar with elemental drain and their damage will be far better off than it would have been with null arca.

Did we mention the dumb healing it gives you on top of all your other healing sources??

it's a 25% buff to the spammable's damage at max health on the nb, I've been pvping in soulcleaver since about 12 hours after IA launched and all this does is put running siphoner magblade at less of a disadvantage, when compared to things like traditional nightblade. Or force pulse magblade. Or a below-average dk who's drunk and has a concussion.

It's still a relatively slow projectile, there's still more time to react and dodge/block than there is to react to concealed or the more common ranged skills like force pulse. And if you block it all that healing gets reduced by a ton, or if you dodge or throw up a hardened ward or similar damage shield you can nullify the healing entirely.

Swallow soul being stronger isn't going to change the other things that've left NB in a not-very-good state for pvp, and barely impacts like 95% of nightblades.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Is it classified as a projectile? That makes it even worse given that DKs just run around with basically permanent uptime on wings courtesy of their infinite sustain.

Yup. It does make fighting even bad dks a chore on siphoner builds.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Is it classified as a projectile? That makes it even worse given that DKs just run around with basically permanent uptime on wings courtesy of their infinite sustain.

Yup. It does make fighting even bad dks a chore on siphoner builds.

One other thing to note from my testing of it on the PTS is that the clunky weaving has not been fixed yet either, so it still bugs out/freezes/pauses when trying to weave it and use other skills as follow up.

Gupitoos wrote: »

Swallow soul is busted and needs toning down - if they don’t do it now they will have to waste resources and time when you expect them to deliver warden refresh. You gotta think of the bigger picture and be honest; you’re obviously excited for this new power creep for your Nightblade but it will cause more harm to the game than it will do good.

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Ecgberht_confused wrote: »

It will hit slightly above concealed, at the expense of (1) a dedicated 5 piece set and (2) a skill line that you'd normally subclass away. I think NBs can have this one!

The numbers you're writing above are not possible unless they're against players with pve gear, or no gear at all tbh

All you have to do is go on YouTube and watch the dozens of videos out already by various different streamers showcasing the absurd damage swallow soul does on PTS currently. They’re wearing stuff like soulcleaver and oakfathers. Isn’t it hypocritical to cry about DK whips and WW damage but when your class gets buffed to overpeform it’s fine?

1) Not my class, though I do dabble with NB every once in a while

2) I didn't cry about DK whips or WW damage

3) Youtube is not a metric anyone should trust. On live, with soulcleaver, about 23k pen, and a ton of critical damage my SS crits for about 6k against players in proper pvp gear. I suspect with the buff and at 100% health that might crit for 8k. Nothing comparable to the 15k I used to get from whip or power lash from permablocking DKs

Major_Mangle wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

@gammelscroll can you just link the video that shows swallow soul is OP. I couldn't find anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XylUAMVJFcU

This is most likely the video in question

DarkDismal wrote: »

People comparing flame lash to swallow soul are just silly, as flame lash is an aoe and can obliterate whole teams when spammed, especially with corrosive active, and it has a burst heal attatched to it. Swallow soul is a single target ability with a hot. It should 100% have a higher tooltip than flame lash, considering its single target and on an assassin class, AND you have to dedicate a whole 5 piece set for it to be effective, AND dks can negate 50% of all its damage by running wings. Seriously how are people even arguing this? L2 block or roll dodge instead of trying to keep an uncompetitive class in the dumpster for yet another patch. I can go even further about how nightblade ults have a cast time getting you killed when you use it, and bow proc has a travel time and easily blocked or roll dodged, while having no dot pressure or delayed burst whatsoever. On top of all that, our class mastery’s have battle spirit nerfs and the crit mastery above and beyond was already worthless in PvP because you can’t hit the crit dmg cap even before the mastery was released let alone with it because of crit resist. Cloak is not only expensive and easily broken by almost every ability in the game, and detect potions, it also disables your mag recovery which renders your sustain investments worthless, on a class that already has horrible sustain. And if you try to counter argument we have siphoning strikes, try using that in the middle of a fight, it’s basically suicide. So now you are just running away and cloaking, disabling your mag recovery, while being chased with detect potions or any skill they use pulling you out, and your sustain skill is just a suicide button at that point. As a 5 star nightblade main for 10 years, I can officially say it’s in the worst state for PvP it has ever been. But somehow, a very select few of us are keeping it alive against all odds, so remember these words the next time you see that elusive 20k merciless resolve in your death recap, as you drop dead seemingly out of nowhere. And recognize a great assassin was among you

DarkDismal wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

DarkDismal wrote: »

People comparing flame lash to swallow soul are just silly, as flame lash is an aoe and can obliterate whole teams when spammed, especially with corrosive active, and it has a burst heal attatched to it. Swallow soul is a single target ability with a hot. It should 100% have a higher tooltip than flame lash, considering its single target and on an assassin class, AND you have to dedicate a whole 5 piece set for it to be effective, AND dks can negate 50% of all its damage by running wings. Seriously how are people even arguing this? L2 block or roll dodge instead of trying to keep an uncompetitive class in the dumpster for yet another patch. I can go even further about how nightblade ults have a cast time getting you killed when you use it, and bow proc has a travel time and easily blocked or roll dodged, while having no dot pressure or delayed burst whatsoever. On top of all that, our class mastery’s have battle spirit nerfs and the crit mastery above and beyond was already worthless in PvP because you can’t hit the crit dmg cap even before the mastery was released let alone with it because of crit resist. Cloak is not only expensive and easily broken by almost every ability in the game, and detect potions, it also disables your mag recovery which renders your sustain investments worthless, on a class that already has horrible sustain. And if you try to counter argument we have siphoning strikes, try using that in the middle of a fight, it’s basically suicide. So now you are just running away and cloaking, disabling your mag recovery, while being chased with detect potions or any skill they use pulling you out, and your sustain skill is just a suicide button at that point. As a 5 star nightblade main for 10 years, I can officially say it’s in the worst state for PvP it has ever been. But somehow, a very select few of us are keeping it alive against all odds, so remember these words the next time you see that elusive 20k merciless resolve in your death recap, as you drop dead seemingly out of nowhere. And recognize a great assassin was among you

Delusional, there’s no skill to it and it introduces a new power creep which people will be calling for nerfs against.
It’s not easy to avoid these stuff on open world / bgs - your argument that swallow soul should have higher tooltip than flame lash just cos it’s single target is dumb. Why shouldn’t wrecking blow or molten whip have higher/similar tooltip to it too since they’re single target too?? Not only it will be hitting harder than flame lash but 42% of the damage dealt coming back to you as healing for 10 seconds is aids.

Then the argument that it needs a whole 5 piece gear set for it to bw effective is invalid. It’s safe to say that with the current state of the game the infinite archive sets are the strongest for pure class for 1v1s and really strong in open world/bgs too, with the exception of sorc who can wear whatever and still slap hard.

Templar excels with aetheric lancer, warden shines with aeries cry, necro is busted with corpse buster etc

But yeah whatever floats your boat - let’s just keep introducing new broken things every patch and then spend the next one nerfing them and finish the class reworks in 2050.

No skill to it? NightBlade is the highest skill cap class in the game to do well and not die, ask anyone. Even a simple google search will tell you this. Why should an aoe that can obliterate whole teams with a burst heal hit harder than a single target ability on an assassin class? Molten whip literally has twice the tooltip damage of swallow soul with three stacks, and basically the same with zero stacks on live. You are just speaking nonsense at this point. At least prove what I’m saying is wrong with real facts before calling my argument invalid. Hmm, I wonder why literally everyone is saying the overtuned dk has ruined PvP, along with werewolf and sorc, definately not for any of the reasons I listed above or the multitude of others not mentioned huh?