Streak needs a CC nerf

CannedChicken · August 27

Radiate77 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thank @BardokRedSnow for bringing it up.

See you in the next thread bud

Did you think it would be surprising that in a “nerf Sorc” thread, people would push back on an idea that undermines their position of Streak being the worst of the worst?

Wings are a 2.0 skill while Streak is a 1.0

These class reworks have inserted power into each skill, something that Streak has not had the benefit of. It is only logical that a skill that has more power budget, is stronger than a skill that has less.

And don’t get too excited, I might not even make the thread, as I’m enjoying Wings… a lot.

I’ve got a whole montage of throwing entire teams off of ledges in Battlegrounds. 🪽

So a 1.0 skill is more powerful than the 2.0 skill. That should tell you something.

And that is entirely an opinion.

I’m not going to argue with you when it’s clear you don’t understand the full value of an AoE Knockback PLUS Stun, PLUS Major Expedition, PLUS Snare & Root Removal, PLUS 50% Damage Mitigation from Ranged Skills.

You don’t need to reposition yourself when you can simply reposition everyone around you.

5 meters to the right = 5 meters to the left

You’re splitting hair on how you get to that point, ignoring the fact that you’re putting yourself at the same distance, within the same amount of time.

If the argument is that you can Streak multiple times, you can cover that distance with a single cast of Wings by taking advantage of Major Expedition and Snare and Root Removal while enjoying a free 50% discounted Ball of Lightning for double it’s duration. Wings also do not need to be recast repeatedly, and certainly do not stack in cost each time.

You're not splitting hairs over how you reach the same distance because they don't actually leave you at the same distance. Wings knocks the target back 4 meters, while Streak moves you 15 meters.

More importantly, Wings' knockback can be completely negated by CC immunity and blocking. You can stop the displacement entirely. You cannot stop a Sorc from Streaking five times in a row.

And you're ignoring that the Sorc can sprint at full speed between each Streak. So comparing Wings' Major Expedition to repeated Streaks isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. Streak gives you an instant 15m reposition, followed by full-speed movement, followed by another 15m reposition.

So no, the two aren't equivalent mobility skills. Streak provides far more control over your positioning and can be used repeatedly on demand. Streak is much stronger and that's before even considering the uncapped AoE CC attached to it and the fact that its unblockable.

Radiate77 · August 27

CannedChicken wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thank @BardokRedSnow for bringing it up.

See you in the next thread bud

Did you think it would be surprising that in a “nerf Sorc” thread, people would push back on an idea that undermines their position of Streak being the worst of the worst?

Wings are a 2.0 skill while Streak is a 1.0

These class reworks have inserted power into each skill, something that Streak has not had the benefit of. It is only logical that a skill that has more power budget, is stronger than a skill that has less.

And don’t get too excited, I might not even make the thread, as I’m enjoying Wings… a lot.

I’ve got a whole montage of throwing entire teams off of ledges in Battlegrounds. 🪽

So a 1.0 skill is more powerful than the 2.0 skill. That should tell you something.

And that is entirely an opinion.

I’m not going to argue with you when it’s clear you don’t understand the full value of an AoE Knockback PLUS Stun, PLUS Major Expedition, PLUS Snare & Root Removal, PLUS 50% Damage Mitigation from Ranged Skills.

You don’t need to reposition yourself when you can simply reposition everyone around you.

5 meters to the right = 5 meters to the left

You’re splitting hair on how you get to that point, ignoring the fact that you’re putting yourself at the same distance, within the same amount of time.

If the argument is that you can Streak multiple times, you can cover that distance with a single cast of Wings by taking advantage of Major Expedition and Snare and Root Removal while enjoying a free 50% discounted Ball of Lightning for double it’s duration. Wings also do not need to be recast repeatedly, and certainly do not stack in cost each time.

You're not splitting hairs over how you reach the same distance because they don't actually leave you at the same distance. Wings knocks the target back 4 meters, while Streak moves you 15 meters.

More importantly, Wings' knockback can be completely negated by CC immunity and blocking. You can stop the displacement entirely. You cannot stop a Sorc from Streaking five times in a row.

And you're ignoring that the Sorc can sprint at full speed between each Streak. So comparing Wings' Major Expedition to repeated Streaks isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. Streak gives you an instant 15m reposition, followed by full-speed movement, followed by another 15m reposition.

So no, the two aren't equivalent mobility skills. Streak provides far more control over your positioning and can be used repeatedly on demand. Streak is much stronger and that's before even considering the uncapped AoE CC attached to it and the fact that its unblockable.

Show me some gameplay of a Sorcerer who used Streak once while snared and rooted, trying to sprint over the course of 2 seconds compared to a player who activated Wings once while snared and rooted, successfully sprinting to add up to the 2 seconds matching your Streak test.

Tell me who makes it further.

If the argument you make is that you can cast Streak multiple times, you’re telling me that 2+ Streaks equal one use of Wings… there would be nothing more to talk about.

albertberku · August 27

You dont even need to be rooted. If you get snared and just spamming Streak, you are not going to make any kind of distance to someone running at speed cap behind you.

You are not going to run at full sprint between Streak casts. For that to happen you are going to need absolute 0 elevation difference between your initial and final Streak position repeatedly in the course of movement.

CannedChicken · August 27

Radiate77 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Thank @BardokRedSnow for bringing it up.

See you in the next thread bud

Did you think it would be surprising that in a “nerf Sorc” thread, people would push back on an idea that undermines their position of Streak being the worst of the worst?

Wings are a 2.0 skill while Streak is a 1.0

These class reworks have inserted power into each skill, something that Streak has not had the benefit of. It is only logical that a skill that has more power budget, is stronger than a skill that has less.

And don’t get too excited, I might not even make the thread, as I’m enjoying Wings… a lot.

I’ve got a whole montage of throwing entire teams off of ledges in Battlegrounds. 🪽

So a 1.0 skill is more powerful than the 2.0 skill. That should tell you something.

And that is entirely an opinion.

I’m not going to argue with you when it’s clear you don’t understand the full value of an AoE Knockback PLUS Stun, PLUS Major Expedition, PLUS Snare & Root Removal, PLUS 50% Damage Mitigation from Ranged Skills.

You don’t need to reposition yourself when you can simply reposition everyone around you.

5 meters to the right = 5 meters to the left

You’re splitting hair on how you get to that point, ignoring the fact that you’re putting yourself at the same distance, within the same amount of time.

If the argument is that you can Streak multiple times, you can cover that distance with a single cast of Wings by taking advantage of Major Expedition and Snare and Root Removal while enjoying a free 50% discounted Ball of Lightning for double it’s duration. Wings also do not need to be recast repeatedly, and certainly do not stack in cost each time.

You're not splitting hairs over how you reach the same distance because they don't actually leave you at the same distance. Wings knocks the target back 4 meters, while Streak moves you 15 meters.

More importantly, Wings' knockback can be completely negated by CC immunity and blocking. You can stop the displacement entirely. You cannot stop a Sorc from Streaking five times in a row.

And you're ignoring that the Sorc can sprint at full speed between each Streak. So comparing Wings' Major Expedition to repeated Streaks isn't an apples-to-apples comparison. Streak gives you an instant 15m reposition, followed by full-speed movement, followed by another 15m reposition.

So no, the two aren't equivalent mobility skills. Streak provides far more control over your positioning and can be used repeatedly on demand. Streak is much stronger and that's before even considering the uncapped AoE CC attached to it and the fact that its unblockable.

Show me some gameplay of a Sorcerer who used Streak once while snared and rooted, trying to sprint over the course of 2 seconds compared to a player who activated Wings once while snared and rooted, successfully sprinting to add up to the 2 seconds matching your Streak test.

Tell me who makes it further.

If the argument you make is that you can cast Streak multiple times, you’re telling me that 2+ Streaks equal one use of Wings… there would be nothing more to talk about.

This argument doesn't really make sense. By that logic, one cast of Channeled Acceleration would travel farther than one cast of Wings, so Channeled Acceleration must be the stronger mobility skill, right?

You're also artificially limiting the Streak comparison to one cast while giving Wings two seconds of uninterrupted movement. If we're comparing the actual mobility these skills provide, you have to account for what the skills can actually do in PvP.

A Sorc can Streak 15m, sprint at full speed, then Streak another 15m. Nothing prevents them from doing that repeatedly. Meanwhile, Wings' displacement can be negated by blocking or CC immunity.

So no, saying "2 Streaks equal one Wings" doesn't prove anything. It just demonstrates that you're using an arbitrary test designed around making Wings look better instead of comparing the actual mobility and CC each skill provides.

CannedChicken · August 27

albertberku wrote: »

You dont even need to be rooted. If you get snared and just spamming Streak, you are not going to make any kind of distance to someone running at speed cap behind you.

You are not going to run at full sprint between Streak casts. For that to happen you are going to need absolute 0 elevation difference between your initial and final Streak position repeatedly in the course of movement.

Snares are an additive reduction to movement speed, so if you're normally sprinting at 170% speed (100% base + 70% bonus), you're still moving at 140% speed while snared. Do you really think 140% movement speed + Streak is slower than 200% movement speed? That's not really an opinion-based question; there is a factual answer.

And snares only last around 4 seconds anyway. By the time that wears off, the Sorc using Streak has already created distance and is gone. You're not realistically going to keep reapplying snares when the Sorc has already escaped.

More importantly, this thread isn't about Streak's mobility. It's about the CC. So let's stay on topic: the CC is overpowered. It has a massive AoE, no target cap, is unblockable and undodgeable, and applies instantly. That's the what you should be addressing.

albertberku · August 27

Lol, you are starting all the discussion about sprinting during Streak and then afterwards talk about keeping the discussion about CC only

You cant have sprint speed during Streak. Because you will not be sprinting during or between Streak casts. You will just fall to the ground from a distance at the final position of your Streak and your character will stay in the position until the fall animation is over. And this wont be before the next GCD window. Even when the elevation difference is minimum. Or you will not achieve full Streak distance if you are going uphill.

You can only Streak and sprint seamlessly at the highest efficiency if the elevation difference between the initial and final position of your Streak is absolute 0. And you have to keep that condition during the whole course of your movement. That means, this will only work if you are on an absolute flat terrain. And this condition only exists in keeps. But there you will have to use stairs at some point to be able to continue your movement. And you will get shortcutted anyway since you cant Streak only in a single direction in keeps.

Slot Major Expedition + Minor Expedition. Or even better, use Adept Rider and Hurricane (Minor Expedition) but no snare removals. Afterwards tell me if you were able to create any distance to another player that sprint after you just by using Streak when you are snared in Cyrodiil.

Teeba_Shei · August 27

Pretty telling that everyone who doesn’t want Streak CC nerfed is now trying to derail the thread by making it about mobility instead. The issue isn’t whether Streak is mobile—the issue is that its CC is so absurdly powerful and reliable that it’s basically become the go-to CC tool for ball groups these days. If the discussion is about whether Streak CC is overtuned, then let’s actually talk about the strength of the CC rather than shifting the conversation to an entirely different mechanic.

albertberku · August 27

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

Pretty telling that everyone who doesn’t want Streak CC nerfed is now trying to derail the thread by making it about mobility instead.

It is the quite opposite actually. People that dont quite know how Streak actually behave as a mobility tool try to use it as an argument about how OP of an ability Streak is by emphasizing its mobility aspect with some incorrect arguments about it.

This was my first post from the first page:

albertberku wrote: »

It's stun area is too big. If it is going to cover an area, it should just be some circular area around the caster's initial position (like Fear). And then maybe just a straight line that has a width not bigger than a character model's width. So that you will have to actually aim for the stun. But now people just spam it in the general direction of other player, anywhere really, and it just stuns everything in a huge vicinity in the end and all the way between from the start.

Wuuffyy · August 27

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

Pretty telling that everyone who doesn’t want Streak CC nerfed is now trying to derail the thread by making it about mobility instead. The issue isn’t whether Streak is mobile—the issue is that its CC is so absurdly powerful and reliable that it’s basically become the go-to CC tool for ball groups these days. If the discussion is about whether Streak CC is overtuned, then let’s actually talk about the strength of the CC rather than shifting the conversation to an entirely different mechanic.

I'm beginning to see a pattern of this, yes. It's almost like anyone can make a forum account and immediately jump into threads to attempt to begin the 'derailification'. This or the self-proclaimed 'sorc mains' who are the most steadfast in defending streak by using 'tangents'.

albertberku · August 27

But what you all have to understand (since obviously you dont play a sorcerer yourself) is that Streak's unblockable undodgeable stun around the initial position of the caster has to stay like that for this ability to be any useful. Because otherwise you will never create any distance with it. And i say just create a Sorcerer and play with Streak in Cyrodiil to see how it behaves and that it is not the magical 15m distance tool that you all imagined. Ball of Lightning maybe (which also probably not quite how you imagine), Streak definitely is not.

You cant really discuss Streak without its mobility aspect. Because its CC is also a part of how you create distance with Streak. We just have to look at it carefully. Because there are two parts to it. Stun at the initial position and stun at the final position. They behave differently. And i say stun at the initial position is much needed because of the characteristics of this ability. But the area of the stun at the final position or anywhere after the initial radius of the caster should be toned down a bit. That way the caster will have to aim for it when it is used as an offensive tool. Currently offensively people just spam it in any direction towards other player and it just connects, since it covers a HUGE area all the way along.

Personofsecrets · August 28

Streak should simply be a new version of Race Against Time. That's what was done to Reflective Scales, a cool and unique DK skill. Abilities like streak are too assymetric in how they work. A new version of race with a unique buff added to it makes much more sense.

CannedChicken · August 28

People are getting way too emotional and not analytical enough in this thread, so I decided to make a video demonstrating why Streak is overperforming and why its current area of effect is larger than it should be.

Rather than arguing about hypotheticals, the video shows exactly how much area Streak covers and why the current size makes the CC so difficult to avoid.

For comparison, Nightblade Fear has a 6-meter radius, giving it a 12-meter diameter and an area of approximately 113 m².

Streak, on the other hand, covers approximately 12 meters in width and 22 meters in length, giving it a total area of 264 m².

This means Nightblade Fear's 6-meter radius provides a useful reference for Streak's 12-meter width, while Streak extends that same width across approximately 22 meters of length.

As a result, Streak's 12 × 22 meter area is approximately 2.33× larger than Nightblade Fear's 6-meter-radius circle.

In other words: Streak covers significantly more area than Nightblade Fear, making it a substantially stronger and more impactful ability in terms of its effective range.

If you don't trust my math watch the video.

https://youtu.be/2aA3h6H1Qn4

Explanation in the video:

Streak's range extends approximately 1–2 meters behind the character.

Hurricane has a 5-meter radius and is out of range, while Fear/Whirling Blades have a 6-meter radius and are in range. Since a 6-meter radius extends 6 meters from the center in every direction, this demonstrates that Streak has an effective width of approximately 12 meters (6m × 2).

The same comparison shows that Streak's frontal range extends roughly 6 meters beyond its 15-meter travel distance, giving it an effective frontal range of approximately 21 meters.

Combined with the additional 1–2 meters behind the character, the actual stun area is approximately 12 × 22-23 meters.

Oblivion_Protocol · August 28

Radiate77 wrote: »

Knocking someone off of a keep wall completely separates them from you and takes them out of the fight, knocking someone off of a bridge into Slaughterfish kills them, knocking someone off of a staircase creates more distance than multiple streaks and breaks LoS.

This is before taking into account the value of Snare and Root Removal/Immunity + Major Expedition.

Streak is easier to use, but Wings are better in anyone’s hands with the slightest level of PvP competency.

You’re talking about knocking someone back, which has nothing to do with mobility. Congrats on being able to use the terrain to your advantage for cheap kills, but what do you do on flat ground with no hazards? If you’re fighting a Sorc, the answer is knock back the opponent, run a short distance, then get Streaked down instantly.

And for people saying “you can’t talk about Streak without discussing the mobility”…yes you can. It’s literally what this thread is trying to do. Streak CC is too strong and needs to be blockable, dogeable, or both. Failing those, it needs a target cap.

hoangdz · August 28

One of the several people arguing against Streak in this thread asked me what analogous CC is comparable to Streak. I already knew it was a question framed to make Streak look overpowered. What surprised me though was that he commented in another thread, admitting that Wings is a much better ability than Streak for many scenarios and even counters Sorcs too.

I would like to participate in a constructive debate, but after that discovery, I think this is probably not possible. I feel like there is some level of bad-faith arguing here, but it's just an assumption though.

Anyway, Streak is not going anywhere. It has never been and will never be an issue, as spending time in a real fight speaks everything there needs to know about the ability. I hope ZOS treads through this thread carefully and pick the right information, test it thoroughly in various scenarios, and take into consideration of the class' entire toolkit, advantages, weaknesses, and thematic importance before making any balance changes.

BardokRedSnow · August 28

hoangdz wrote: »

One of the several people arguing against Streak in this thread asked me what analogous CC is comparable to Streak. I already knew it was a question framed to make Streak look overpowered. What surprised me though was that he commented in another thread, admitting that Wings is a much better ability than Streak for many scenarios and even counters Sorcs too.

I would like to participate in a constructive debate, but after that discovery, I think this is probably not possible. I feel like there is some level of bad-faith arguing here, but it's just an assumption though.

Anyway, Streak is not going anywhere. It has never been and will never be an issue, as spending time in a real fight speaks everything there needs to know about the ability. I hope ZOS treads through this thread carefully and pick the right information, test it thoroughly in various scenarios, and take into consideration of the class' entire toolkit, advantages, weaknesses, and thematic importance before making any balance changes.

Not admitting- claiming. A bold claim at that and one I still find wholly inaccurate. Main scenario I saw mentioned before was tower thumping, which on paper you would think is the case but in practice, I fight sorcs in towers or with sorcs in towers all the time, they dont lose effectiveness because of the enclosed encounter. Maybe much lesser sorcs that are just running to the tower to run to it but not the ones actually there to 1vX.

As for countering, sure against sorcs specifically reducing 50 percent of the damage is huge just sorc vs dk, but against others, streak is still far more useful than dk wings when fighting outnumbered. Grossly so, simply because the sorc is much less reliant on line of sight in those scenarios.

Radiate77 · August 28

This thread isn’t a Streak vs Wings debate.
They are both overperforming, for different reasons.

BardokRedSnow · August 28

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

Radiate77 · August 28

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

MeridiaFavorsMe · August 28

CannedChicken wrote: »

People are getting way too emotional and not analytical enough in this thread, so I decided to make a video demonstrating why Streak is overperforming and why its current area of effect is larger than it should be.

Rather than arguing about hypotheticals, the video shows exactly how much area Streak covers and why the current size makes the CC so difficult to avoid.

For comparison, Nightblade Fear has a 6-meter radius, giving it a 12-meter diameter and an area of approximately 113 m².

Streak, on the other hand, covers approximately 12 meters in width and 22 meters in length, giving it a total area of 264 m².

This means Nightblade Fear's 6-meter radius provides a useful reference for Streak's 12-meter width, while Streak extends that same width across approximately 22 meters of length.

As a result, Streak's 12 × 22 meter area is approximately 2.33× larger than Nightblade Fear's 6-meter-radius circle.

In other words: Streak covers significantly more area than Nightblade Fear, making it a substantially stronger and more impactful ability in terms of its effective range.

If you don't trust my math watch the video.

https://youtu.be/2aA3h6H1Qn4

Explanation in the video:

Streak's range extends approximately 1–2 meters behind the character.

Hurricane has a 5-meter radius and is out of range, while Fear/Whirling Blades have a 6-meter radius and are in range. Since a 6-meter radius extends 6 meters from the center in every direction, this demonstrates that Streak has an effective width of approximately 12 meters (6m × 2).

The same comparison shows that Streak's frontal range extends roughly 6 meters beyond its 15-meter travel distance, giving it an effective frontal range of approximately 21 meters.

Combined with the additional 1–2 meters behind the character, the actual stun area is approximately 12 × 22-23 meters.

This basically blows a hole in the theory that this skill is a skill shot. This skill is basically a giant barn door that slaps people. Is this skill just bugged? Because the skill description doesn't match at all how the skill actually operates.

logarifmik · August 28

Yes, sneak needs a nerf.

BardokRedSnow · August 28

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Yes, both WW fear and DK wings have caps.I would have the exact same complaint about WW Fear if it triggered after using a gap closer that could also be used to immediately escape, or if DK Wings went through block and had a significantly larger radius.

The issue isn't that Streak is a Sorc ability. It's the combination of the CC mechanics and the amount of utility packed into the same skill. I'd make the same argument regardless of which class had it.

Actually this is how the discussion started and it’s why I mentioned DK wings to you specifically in the first place and seeing that this is the OP I would say that discussing how DK wings is not superior to streak and how that comment is outrageous is perfectly fine and on topic.

However if you still plan to make the thread specifically about it, I’m more than happy to take that discussion there also.

Wuuffyy · August 28

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Yes, both WW fear and DK wings have caps.I would have the exact same complaint about WW Fear if it triggered after using a gap closer that could also be used to immediately escape, or if DK Wings went through block and had a significantly larger radius.

The issue isn't that Streak is a Sorc ability. It's the combination of the CC mechanics and the amount of utility packed into the same skill. I'd make the same argument regardless of which class had it.

Actually this is how the discussion started and it’s why I mentioned DK wings to you specifically in the first place and seeing that this is the OP I would say that discussing how DK wings is not superior to streak and how that comment is outrageous is perfectly fine and on topic.

However if you still plan to make the thread specifically about it, I’m more than happy to take that discussion there also.

The wings CC due to its nature as a 'knock-back' ability also has a significant amount of potential to dysync and cause the player to lose control of their character longer than seemingly intended. While we're in this thread, I felt that was something worth pointing out.

SneaK · August 28

Teeba_Shei wrote: »

Pretty telling that everyone who doesn’t want Streak CC nerfed is now trying to derail the thread by making it about mobility instead. The issue isn’t whether Streak is mobile—the issue is that its CC is so absurdly powerful and reliable that it’s basically become the go-to CC tool for ball groups these days. If the discussion is about whether Streak CC is overtuned, then let’s actually talk about the strength of the CC rather than shifting the conversation to an entirely different mechanic.

This is majorly false. BGs use pulls, not streak. It’s actually the opposite, comp groups get mad at pugs for streaking through enemies cause it’s gives them immunity from their timed pulls. This is just another case of someone blaming ballgroups for something that ballgroups don’t even really do. And all of a sudden a skill is on the nerf chopping block due to misinformation.

Teeba_Shei · August 28

CannedChicken wrote: »

People are getting way too emotional and not analytical enough in this thread, so I decided to make a video demonstrating why Streak is overperforming and why its current area of effect is larger than it should be.

Rather than arguing about hypotheticals, the video shows exactly how much area Streak covers and why the current size makes the CC so difficult to avoid.

For comparison, Nightblade Fear has a 6-meter radius, giving it a 12-meter diameter and an area of approximately 113 m².

Streak, on the other hand, covers approximately 12 meters in width and 22 meters in length, giving it a total area of 264 m².

This means Nightblade Fear's 6-meter radius provides a useful reference for Streak's 12-meter width, while Streak extends that same width across approximately 22 meters of length.

As a result, Streak's 12 × 22 meter area is approximately 2.33× larger than Nightblade Fear's 6-meter-radius circle.

In other words: Streak covers significantly more area than Nightblade Fear, making it a substantially stronger and more impactful ability in terms of its effective range.

If you don't trust my math watch the video.

https://youtu.be/2aA3h6H1Qn4

Explanation in the video:

Streak's range extends approximately 1–2 meters behind the character.

Hurricane has a 5-meter radius and is out of range, while Fear/Whirling Blades have a 6-meter radius and are in range. Since a 6-meter radius extends 6 meters from the center in every direction, this demonstrates that Streak has an effective width of approximately 12 meters (6m × 2).

The same comparison shows that Streak's frontal range extends roughly 6 meters beyond its 15-meter travel distance, giving it an effective frontal range of approximately 21 meters.

Combined with the additional 1–2 meters behind the character, the actual stun area is approximately 12 × 22-23 meters.

@ZOS_Kevin can you have the devs check this? It looks like the skill might be bugged because its CCing much further than the actual area of the skill.

Vaqual · August 28

Radiate77 wrote: »

It’s not. You can do more harm displacing an enemy than displacing yourself, all while finding more impact in having two skills for evasion baked into one. “Creates Distance” is the intention of both skills, moving forward into streak you will be equal distance away from your target as someone moving forward hitting Wings by the end of your GCD.

Notice how Streak soft roots you when using it, while Wings make up the difference in constant momentum.

Imagine a world where Streak has snare/root removal and Major Expedition. Then we can talk about it being stronger than Wings.

All of that to say, they are BOTH a problem, even though I run Wings on all of my favorite builds, and man… the blue wings look incredible on my Vampire, I can own the fact that the skill is doing too much.

I’ll likely make an entire thread about it at some point, rather than derail this one.

Thank @BardokRedSnow for bringing it up.

Snare removal and Major Expedition shouldn't be on any skill with offensive

CannedChicken wrote: »

People are getting way too emotional and not analytical enough in this thread, so I decided to make a video demonstrating why Streak is overperforming and why its current area of effect is larger than it should be.

Rather than arguing about hypotheticals, the video shows exactly how much area Streak covers and why the current size makes the CC so difficult to avoid.

For comparison, Nightblade Fear has a 6-meter radius, giving it a 12-meter diameter and an area of approximately 113 m².

Streak, on the other hand, covers approximately 12 meters in width and 22 meters in length, giving it a total area of 264 m².

This means Nightblade Fear's 6-meter radius provides a useful reference for Streak's 12-meter width, while Streak extends that same width across approximately 22 meters of length.

As a result, Streak's 12 × 22 meter area is approximately 2.33× larger than Nightblade Fear's 6-meter-radius circle.

In other words: Streak covers significantly more area than Nightblade Fear, making it a substantially stronger and more impactful ability in terms of its effective range.

If you don't trust my math watch the video.

https://youtu.be/2aA3h6H1Qn4

Explanation in the video:

Streak's range extends approximately 1–2 meters behind the character.

Hurricane has a 5-meter radius and is out of range, while Fear/Whirling Blades have a 6-meter radius and are in range. Since a 6-meter radius extends 6 meters from the center in every direction, this demonstrates that Streak has an effective width of approximately 12 meters (6m × 2).

The same comparison shows that Streak's frontal range extends roughly 6 meters beyond its 15-meter travel distance, giving it an effective frontal range of approximately 21 meters.

Combined with the additional 1–2 meters behind the character, the actual stun area is approximately 12 × 22-23 meters.

I'd even say a long and narrow cone would be ideal, since you basically dash so fast that you create a "blast" that could daze a target. But the stun at the origin doesn't even make sense from a flavor perspective. You didn't travel far enough to build enough momentum to really bother a target around you. Especially the getting stunned by the "Streak Fart" is just annoying and doesn't make sense. Moving the cone a bit forward and making it a bit more narrow would be completely fair. I don't think it needs needlepoint accuracy at the target location. There the splash is justified.

Vaqual · August 28

Looks like I got trolled by my phone, which also posted the remnant of a draft

BardokRedSnow · August 28

Wuuffyy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Yes, both WW fear and DK wings have caps.I would have the exact same complaint about WW Fear if it triggered after using a gap closer that could also be used to immediately escape, or if DK Wings went through block and had a significantly larger radius.

The issue isn't that Streak is a Sorc ability. It's the combination of the CC mechanics and the amount of utility packed into the same skill. I'd make the same argument regardless of which class had it.

Actually this is how the discussion started and it’s why I mentioned DK wings to you specifically in the first place and seeing that this is the OP I would say that discussing how DK wings is not superior to streak and how that comment is outrageous is perfectly fine and on topic.

However if you still plan to make the thread specifically about it, I’m more than happy to take that discussion there also.

The wings CC due to its nature as a 'knock-back' ability also has a significant amount of potential to dysync and cause the player to lose control of their character longer than seemingly intended. While we're in this thread, I felt that was something worth pointing out.

Luckily react flagged down the devs and showed them instances where multiple ccs from various classes cause this to happen, and they commented they're looking to finally fix this bug they were apparently unaware of. So this will hopefully no longer be an issue, though even in lag I gotta say its never happened to me from dk wings, it has happened from fossilize though which is what that thread was about in the pts section as you're aware of actually.

Desync is a separate issue though, not really an argument for a nerf but rather a fix.

CannedChicken · August 28

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Yes, both WW fear and DK wings have caps.I would have the exact same complaint about WW Fear if it triggered after using a gap closer that could also be used to immediately escape, or if DK Wings went through block and had a significantly larger radius.

The issue isn't that Streak is a Sorc ability. It's the combination of the CC mechanics and the amount of utility packed into the same skill. I'd make the same argument regardless of which class had it.

Actually this is how the discussion started and it’s why I mentioned DK wings to you specifically in the first place and seeing that this is the OP I would say that discussing how DK wings is not superior to streak and how that comment is outrageous is perfectly fine and on topic.

However if you still plan to make the thread specifically about it, I’m more than happy to take that discussion there also.

The wings CC due to its nature as a 'knock-back' ability also has a significant amount of potential to dysync and cause the player to lose control of their character longer than seemingly intended. While we're in this thread, I felt that was something worth pointing out.

Luckily react flagged down the devs and showed them instances where multiple ccs from various classes cause this to happen, and they commented they're looking to finally fix this bug they were apparently unaware of. So this will hopefully no longer be an issue, though even in lag I gotta say its never happened to me from dk wings, it has happened from fossilize though which is what that thread was about in the pts section as you're aware of actually.

Desync is a separate issue though, not really an argument for a nerf but rather a fix.

Desync is definitely an issue, and I’m glad the devs are looking into it. That said, they also need to check out the video I posted with an explanation, because it looks like Streak may be bugged. The CC is covering a much larger area than it should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aA3h6H1Qn4

BardokRedSnow · August 28

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Yes, both WW fear and DK wings have caps.I would have the exact same complaint about WW Fear if it triggered after using a gap closer that could also be used to immediately escape, or if DK Wings went through block and had a significantly larger radius.

The issue isn't that Streak is a Sorc ability. It's the combination of the CC mechanics and the amount of utility packed into the same skill. I'd make the same argument regardless of which class had it.

Actually this is how the discussion started and it’s why I mentioned DK wings to you specifically in the first place and seeing that this is the OP I would say that discussing how DK wings is not superior to streak and how that comment is outrageous is perfectly fine and on topic.

However if you still plan to make the thread specifically about it, I’m more than happy to take that discussion there also.

The wings CC due to its nature as a 'knock-back' ability also has a significant amount of potential to dysync and cause the player to lose control of their character longer than seemingly intended. While we're in this thread, I felt that was something worth pointing out.

Luckily react flagged down the devs and showed them instances where multiple ccs from various classes cause this to happen, and they commented they're looking to finally fix this bug they were apparently unaware of. So this will hopefully no longer be an issue, though even in lag I gotta say its never happened to me from dk wings, it has happened from fossilize though which is what that thread was about in the pts section as you're aware of actually.

Desync is a separate issue though, not really an argument for a nerf but rather a fix.

Desync is definitely an issue, and I’m glad the devs are looking into it. That said, they also need to check out the video I posted with an explanation, because it looks like Streak may be bugged. The CC is covering a much larger area than it should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aA3h6H1Qn4

I would share this in the pts section, they are surprisingly active there lately.

specifically here to start:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/698606/fix-fossilize/p1

If you have already I apologize, missed it.

CannedChicken · August 28

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

CannedChicken wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

I didnt post a diagram comparing the two.

You’re right, you only brought it up altogether.

CannedChicken wrote: »

Yes, both WW fear and DK wings have caps.I would have the exact same complaint about WW Fear if it triggered after using a gap closer that could also be used to immediately escape, or if DK Wings went through block and had a significantly larger radius.

The issue isn't that Streak is a Sorc ability. It's the combination of the CC mechanics and the amount of utility packed into the same skill. I'd make the same argument regardless of which class had it.

Actually this is how the discussion started and it’s why I mentioned DK wings to you specifically in the first place and seeing that this is the OP I would say that discussing how DK wings is not superior to streak and how that comment is outrageous is perfectly fine and on topic.

However if you still plan to make the thread specifically about it, I’m more than happy to take that discussion there also.

The wings CC due to its nature as a 'knock-back' ability also has a significant amount of potential to dysync and cause the player to lose control of their character longer than seemingly intended. While we're in this thread, I felt that was something worth pointing out.

Luckily react flagged down the devs and showed them instances where multiple ccs from various classes cause this to happen, and they commented they're looking to finally fix this bug they were apparently unaware of. So this will hopefully no longer be an issue, though even in lag I gotta say its never happened to me from dk wings, it has happened from fossilize though which is what that thread was about in the pts section as you're aware of actually.

Desync is a separate issue though, not really an argument for a nerf but rather a fix.

Desync is definitely an issue, and I’m glad the devs are looking into it. That said, they also need to check out the video I posted with an explanation, because it looks like Streak may be bugged. The CC is covering a much larger area than it should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aA3h6H1Qn4

I would share this in the pts section, they are surprisingly active there lately.

specifically here to start:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/698606/fix-fossilize/p1

If you have already I apologize, missed it.

Feel free to share it yourself. I was going to post it to the bug forums.