Arunei wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

You and Mamba must be part of the same friend circle or something considering how similarly you're going on about trying to minimize WW being a valid playstyle with "it's not a Class". What kind of reasoning are you doing to think that WW being a viable build somehow means the game would revolve around it? You're sitting here going on about people like Wuuffy fighting against heavyhanded nerfs, at the same time you're clearly upset people are fighting and keep showing how very much you dislike the playstyle.

You and others also ignore the fact that unkillable tanky players with high DPS have existed in PvP for years. You keep acting like WW is the only time this has happened in hopes of that getting it nerfed, that no other Class or build is or ever has been capable of tanking sometimes upwards of eight or nine people while also being able to pick them off.

And your camp is also ignoring that numerous people asked for CoE to get adjusted because we KNEW WW was going to get hit with more nerfs because of it. We were asking for a nerf to Sorc WW in order to prevent WW as a whole from suffering from that particular build. You're ignoring that people, myself included, have suggested that if they don't want to remove the nerfs entirely they could at least test them at lower values first, especially now that the changes to CoE and Static Reverb are coming. And most people I've seen aren't upset by the changes to Sorc and the fact that they impact WW. What they, or at the very least myself, are bothered by is stuff that was a problem on WW has been addressed but the actual WW nerfs haven't been adjusted at all to account for it.

WW lost its 30% Stam regen bonus. WW lost Bleed Damage. WW will lose stat sustain and healing if things go Live. Mag WW will cease to exist if things go Live. And the sad part is the same thing it always has been: People clamor for something to be nerfed because of how well experienced PvPers play it, the thing in question gets nerfed, average or below average people get nerfed while the experienced players tweak some things and carry on trouncing folks. And this leads to people STILL wanting the thing in question to get nerfed even more, and so it goes.

Werewolf is NOT a class.
It is a condition to another class. If you want it to be treated like a class, then no other class should be allowed without subclassing it.
What class allows a player to don and doff it as if it were a spring jacket?

Wuuffyy wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

You and Mamba must be part of the same friend circle or something considering how similarly you're going on about trying to minimize WW being a valid playstyle with "it's not a Class". What kind of reasoning are you doing to think that WW being a viable build somehow means the game would revolve around it? You're sitting here going on about people like Wuuffy fighting against heavyhanded nerfs, at the same time you're clearly upset people are fighting and keep showing how very much you dislike the playstyle.

You and others also ignore the fact that unkillable tanky players with high DPS have existed in PvP for years. You keep acting like WW is the only time this has happened in hopes of that getting it nerfed, that no other Class or build is or ever has been capable of tanking sometimes upwards of eight or nine people while also being able to pick them off.

And your camp is also ignoring that numerous people asked for CoE to get adjusted because we KNEW WW was going to get hit with more nerfs because of it. We were asking for a nerf to Sorc WW in order to prevent WW as a whole from suffering from that particular build. You're ignoring that people, myself included, have suggested that if they don't want to remove the nerfs entirely they could at least test them at lower values first, especially now that the changes to CoE and Static Reverb are coming. And most people I've seen aren't upset by the changes to Sorc and the fact that they impact WW. What they, or at the very least myself, are bothered by is stuff that was a problem on WW has been addressed but the actual WW nerfs haven't been adjusted at all to account for it.

WW lost its 30% Stam regen bonus. WW lost Bleed Damage. WW will lose stat sustain and healing if things go Live. Mag WW will cease to exist if things go Live. And the sad part is the same thing it always has been: People clamor for something to be nerfed because of how well experienced PvPers play it, the thing in question gets nerfed, average or below average people get nerfed while the experienced players tweak some things and carry on trouncing folks. And this leads to people STILL wanting the thing in question to get nerfed even more, and so it goes.

Werewolf is NOT a class.
It is a condition to another class. If you want it to be treated like a class, then no other class should be allowed without subclassing it.
What class allows a player to don and doff it as if it were a spring jacket?

It's werewolf, that's flavor. A werewolf also cannot don its class abilities like a 'winter coat' either. You're either in or you're out.

But regardless, it makes absolutely no difference if you want to call it a 'class' or not. It functions incredibly similarly to one and as long as its tethered to itself and itself alone (i.e. I cannot use my sorc abilities, weapon skills, guild skills Psjiic, etc.) then it must continue to be balanced in a fair regard for where it cannot reasonably compensate.

If they don't want to to fairly balance it and want to leave it in a horrendous state anywhere- then I implore them to come out and say 'the werewolf playstyle is actually invalid and we will not make serious attempts to balance it constructively' so I and many others like myself can move onto other games completely.

Otherwise, you don't speak for the company (so I don't know where exactly you gain leverage trying to quantify its existence in some poor attempt to validate/invalidate the playstyle and its requirement to be 'in the loop' for balancing) and I'd be hard-pressed to believe they just devoted so much time, resources, and overall attention to it to leave it abysmal after a single balance patch while they 'continue on to greater things'.

[Emphasis added]
I speak for myself. You can added it after character has landed on the map. You can remove it after playing it. It CAN be put on and removed. When you remove it, whatever class you chose at character creation is still there for you to play.
I do not believe it is a 'play style.' It is an option that is being treated like class without the restrictions that classes have. (You can stop playing it, or change it to Vampire. No one has those options in game with classes.)
I believe it should be nerffed to the point that it returns to the novelty that it started out as.
It should NOT be active in PvP at all.

My opinions, you do not have to agree.

ETA: I got Oakensoul's Majors and Minors swapped, so it's the opposite of what I said (that it gives a bunch of Majors and a few Minors, it's the other way around). The part of my post bringing it up is invalid lol.

Gupitoos wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

While I get where you’re coming from and Werewolf needed to be reigned back while we await more of these reworks, gutting their sustain was really the worst way to go about it.

Anyone who happened to be around during Morrowind, got to experience resource sustain armageddon and the mass exodus of players not willing to put up with how horrible the game felt.

Being forced off of the pedal after not even two exchanges of pressure, outside of running two sustain sets, stuck howling for resources repeatedly just feels bad.

Also want to add; that bit about Elder Twilight Online probably sounded a lot cooler in your head than it read out reading it.

Reworked WW in U50 is cancer and it needed to be nerfed. They should make Werewolf its own class if they want it to be as strong as Pure Classes which require a 2 bar playstyle and constant micro management (some more so than others).
1 bar noob playstyle granting you every major buff in game, save for cleanse and godmode thanks to the dumb damage and sustain, should never ever be as strong as pure classes.

It's funny how the people so vehemently against WW often fall back and rely on insults, and kind of telling as well honestly. Also holy hyperbole, Batman, WW gets EVERY Major Buff? Let's see what they ACTUALLY get:

So if you're a Pack Leader with Hircine's Fortitude, Deafening Roar, Rip and Tear, and Bloodclaws, you get in total
Major Protection, Major Brutality, Major Vitality, Major Maim, Major Cowardice, Major Evasion, Major Breach, and Major Resolve, along with Minor Courage, Minor Force, and Minor Protection. Some you get just from slotting them, others you only get when using them. Picking any other combo of Morphs will be fewer buffs, so going with this we get eight Majors and three Minors. Now let's see what WW doesn't have access to via its Skills:

And we don't really have to list all the Minors that WW doesn't get, considering it only gets three. Of course some of these can come from Potions if you're using things like Tripots or from certain Armor Sets, some Guild or World Skills/Passives can grant them, or Class Passives. But all of those are things people not using WW also freely have access to, we're focusing strictly on what WW gets from its own Skills and Passive. Eight Majors is, I think it's obvious, NOT "every Major buff", and claiming it gets them all is such a stretch you might as well be called Armstrong. A number of these WW can't source outside of Sets that would result in subpar builds, which is true for every Class.

But you know what will ACTUALLY give ANY 1bar build practically every Major and a good portion of Minor buffs? Oakensoul. Funny how we don't have people yelling about that being OP on optimized 1bar builds that aren't WW. And all the others Classes have access to all their Class Skills (Active and Passive), Weapon Skills (Active and Passive), Active World, Guild, and Alliance War Skills, and any Class Skills (Active and Passive) from up to two other Class Lines. And since every Class can also get Major and Minor Buffs/Debuffs from Poisons, Potions, and Sets, pretty much every Class can also have a good chunk of them.

Now I WILL say that WW's (De)Buffs should be spread more evenly, so as not to push everyone into pretty much the same build in PvP (or PvE for that matter). It would also help keep WW from being so frontloaded, though again, other Classes can mix and match MANY more Skill Lines than WW can to also get a decent spread of Buffs. But the reason WW has so many things packed into all its Skills is because it can rely on far FEWER than any other Class to source them. I'd be willing to bet if the spread of their Buffs was more evenly split between Berserker and the Actives (move some of them to Pounce/Carnage and Claw Fury so choices are more meaningful, for example) that would help more than nerf nerf nerf would.

ETA:
As with before during U50's PTS, it might also be better to take the WW convo to a different thread so it's not cluttering all the other feedback stuff getting posted.

Don’t respond to the trolls, they’re not interested in being fair. They’re corrupt.

WW is dead. Again! Worse than U49 at this point.

It was fun playing my mag warden ww for such a short time. I’m talking about casual pve here. The game won’t be fun anymore.

shadoza wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

You and Mamba must be part of the same friend circle or something considering how similarly you're going on about trying to minimize WW being a valid playstyle with "it's not a Class". What kind of reasoning are you doing to think that WW being a viable build somehow means the game would revolve around it? You're sitting here going on about people like Wuuffy fighting against heavyhanded nerfs, at the same time you're clearly upset people are fighting and keep showing how very much you dislike the playstyle.

You and others also ignore the fact that unkillable tanky players with high DPS have existed in PvP for years. You keep acting like WW is the only time this has happened in hopes of that getting it nerfed, that no other Class or build is or ever has been capable of tanking sometimes upwards of eight or nine people while also being able to pick them off.

And your camp is also ignoring that numerous people asked for CoE to get adjusted because we KNEW WW was going to get hit with more nerfs because of it. We were asking for a nerf to Sorc WW in order to prevent WW as a whole from suffering from that particular build. You're ignoring that people, myself included, have suggested that if they don't want to remove the nerfs entirely they could at least test them at lower values first, especially now that the changes to CoE and Static Reverb are coming. And most people I've seen aren't upset by the changes to Sorc and the fact that they impact WW. What they, or at the very least myself, are bothered by is stuff that was a problem on WW has been addressed but the actual WW nerfs haven't been adjusted at all to account for it.

WW lost its 30% Stam regen bonus. WW lost Bleed Damage. WW will lose stat sustain and healing if things go Live. Mag WW will cease to exist if things go Live. And the sad part is the same thing it always has been: People clamor for something to be nerfed because of how well experienced PvPers play it, the thing in question gets nerfed, average or below average people get nerfed while the experienced players tweak some things and carry on trouncing folks. And this leads to people STILL wanting the thing in question to get nerfed even more, and so it goes.

Werewolf is NOT a class.
It is a condition to another class. If you want it to be treated like a class, then no other class should be allowed without subclassing it.
What class allows a player to don and doff it as if it were a spring jacket?

It's werewolf, that's flavor. A werewolf also cannot don its class abilities like a 'winter coat' either. You're either in or you're out.

But regardless, it makes absolutely no difference if you want to call it a 'class' or not. It functions incredibly similarly to one and as long as its tethered to itself and itself alone (i.e. I cannot use my sorc abilities, weapon skills, guild skills Psjiic, etc.) then it must continue to be balanced in a fair regard for where it cannot reasonably compensate.

If they don't want to to fairly balance it and want to leave it in a horrendous state anywhere- then I implore them to come out and say 'the werewolf playstyle is actually invalid and we will not make serious attempts to balance it constructively' so I and many others like myself can move onto other games completely.

Otherwise, you don't speak for the company (so I don't know where exactly you gain leverage trying to quantify its existence in some poor attempt to validate/invalidate the playstyle and its requirement to be 'in the loop' for balancing) and I'd be hard-pressed to believe they just devoted so much time, resources, and overall attention to it to leave it abysmal after a single balance patch while they 'continue on to greater things'.

[Emphasis added]
I speak for myself. You can added it after character has landed on the map. You can remove it after playing it. It CAN be put on and removed. When you remove it, whatever class you chose at character creation is still there for you to play.
I do not believe it is a 'play style.' It is an option that is being treated like class without the restrictions that classes have. (You can stop playing it, or change it to Vampire. No one has those options in game with classes.)
I believe it should be nerffed to the point that it returns to the novelty that it started out as.
It should NOT be active in PvP at all.

My opinions, you do not have to agree.

Well spoken mate, don’t pay this Wuffy no mind, if you look his forum posts up, he’s literally trying to get everything else nerfed and keep WW the same way it is now on the live server.

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

Fossilize quite literally does not work like any of those at all, none of those things except warden charm lets you line up burst nor did old fossilize. And you can walk out of warden charm.

The closest comparision to fossilize is arcanist stun, its also a delayed stun that happens after 1 second but is not broken like fossilize. I explained why earlier so i dont think i need to repeat the reason why.

I know you know this as well, lets try to be a little objective.

Sure you can move out of the warden aoe charm but it’s harder to do so under consistent pressure or when they’re about to die and you need to maintain dps on them. It’s easier by far to dodge the DK stun (and you can go back to dpsing faster than having to run back in and catch up to the warden) - you even have a noob app telling you when to press dodge which is lame.

I’ll reiterate; game is called Elder Scrolls online not Elder Twilight online. You can’t expect to play WW and be stronger than pure classes or.

Mate, just because you are a main of a class and you for whatever reason cant or wont play anything else, dont assume that every one is the same.
I have all classes at 50, most with more than 1 race just for optimization purposes, i have all sets that are relevant including trials and ia sets and ive always played what i consider is fun and strong. WW was really fun and pretty strong last patch. I will be sad if it becomes unplayable because i genuinely think its the best rework the devs have done but its no big lose to me. I will keep playing dk, i will keep playing sorc, and i'll try keep making builds that might or might not end up working for other classes.
You yourself are a dk main and that clouds your judgment. All i want is a fun diverse pvp meta. Hell, go check my posts about dk, i am happy with the landslide buff and i want them to buff stagger to make wildfire embers viable as a ranged build with pyre. I want dk strong, i just dont want dk broken. I want all classes strong. Because again, i play everything thats strong and fun.

Also dodging fossilize doesnt do anything, i would explain why and how but i would be repeating myself, you should know by now that if they dodge you just fossilize again.

I play Nightblade, Templar, Warden and DK.
If they dodge and fossilize again, guess what, the addon will show it yet again and all they have to do is dodge it for a second time.
Most DKs have around 20-24k magicka depending on how they distribute their attributes, so on top of keeping their other stuff up the cost of it will make them run out of magicka which they need in order to keep heart of flame up too. You can’t just spam fossilize on DK vs an experienced player - you will die either from not doing enough damage or running out of magicka and not able to keep your buffs and aoe up.

Its honestly crazy that i have to spell it out but here we are.

In a scenario where a dk uses fossilize and a player dodge rolls, the dk should fossilize again, this leaves the player with the choice of dodge rolling again or accepting the stun except the cost of dodge roll has doubled.

If they choose to dodge roll again foolishly, guess what? You just fossilize again. They have a finite stam pool and the cost of dodge roll increasing with each dodge roll will drain it fast, the cost of fossilize is fixed and a dk has infinite magicka to boot.

There is literally one outcome to that scenario. I understand that not every one has to be as experienced here but this is the basics.

Templar won’t run out resources, neither will necro or Sorc. Nightblade has pretty good sustain too - all those classes can also react by cc’ing DK themselves (some of which can’t be blocked/dodged) - warden can use aoe fear charm etc

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

Fossilize quite literally does not work like any of those at all, none of those things except warden charm lets you line up burst nor did old fossilize. And you can walk out of warden charm.

The closest comparision to fossilize is arcanist stun, its also a delayed stun that happens after 1 second but is not broken like fossilize. I explained why earlier so i dont think i need to repeat the reason why.

I know you know this as well, lets try to be a little objective.

Sure you can move out of the warden aoe charm but it’s harder to do so under consistent pressure or when they’re about to die and you need to maintain dps on them. It’s easier by far to dodge the DK stun (and you can go back to dpsing faster than having to run back in and catch up to the warden) - you even have a noob app telling you when to press dodge which is lame.

I’ll reiterate; game is called Elder Scrolls online not Elder Twilight online. You can’t expect to play WW and be stronger than pure classes or.

Mate, just because you are a main of a class and you for whatever reason cant or wont play anything else, dont assume that every one is the same.
I have all classes at 50, most with more than 1 race just for optimization purposes, i have all sets that are relevant including trials and ia sets and ive always played what i consider is fun and strong. WW was really fun and pretty strong last patch. I will be sad if it becomes unplayable because i genuinely think its the best rework the devs have done but its no big lose to me. I will keep playing dk, i will keep playing sorc, and i'll try keep making builds that might or might not end up working for other classes.
You yourself are a dk main and that clouds your judgment. All i want is a fun diverse pvp meta. Hell, go check my posts about dk, i am happy with the landslide buff and i want them to buff stagger to make wildfire embers viable as a ranged build with pyre. I want dk strong, i just dont want dk broken. I want all classes strong. Because again, i play everything thats strong and fun.

Also dodging fossilize doesnt do anything, i would explain why and how but i would be repeating myself, you should know by now that if they dodge you just fossilize again.

I play Nightblade, Templar, Warden and DK.
If they dodge and fossilize again, guess what, the addon will show it yet again and all they have to do is dodge it for a second time.
Most DKs have around 20-24k magicka depending on how they distribute their attributes, so on top of keeping their other stuff up the cost of it will make them run out of magicka which they need in order to keep heart of flame up too. You can’t just spam fossilize on DK vs an experienced player - you will die either from not doing enough damage or running out of magicka and not able to keep your buffs and aoe up.

Its honestly crazy that i have to spell it out but here we are.

In a scenario where a dk uses fossilize and a player dodge rolls, the dk should fossilize again, this leaves the player with the choice of dodge rolling again or accepting the stun except the cost of dodge roll has doubled.

If they choose to dodge roll again foolishly, guess what? You just fossilize again. They have a finite stam pool and the cost of dodge roll increasing with each dodge roll will drain it fast, the cost of fossilize is fixed and a dk has infinite magicka to boot.

There is literally one outcome to that scenario. I understand that not every one has to be as experienced here but this is the basics.

Templar won’t run out resources, neither will necro or Sorc. Nightblade has pretty good sustain too - all those classes can also react by cc’ing DK themselves (some of which can’t be blocked/dodged) - warden can use aoe fear charm etc

what are you talking about the cost of stamina doubles every time you dodge roll with the fatigue debuff.

Ok ill take the advice and wont interact with some one that keeps arguing in bad faith. Every one should probably also the same ...

Panderbander wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

If they gave us the old werewolf again, with the reworked model. I can guarantee bad players will cry in here about ww being OP 😅

Even Pre rework WW was OP due to the extreme tankiness, it was super hard to kill one who’s constantly sprinting spamming ccs and heals. One bar playstyle - only noobs will take offense at the fact that it’s designed FOR NOOBS who find two bar playstyle too complex and difficult for them lol.
Why should you play the easiest possible way that requires the least amount of skill and effort and beat other players who have to deal with loads more micromanagement and time their stuff, etc?

I think it would be a good idea for ZOS to consider hosting organised duelling events on the PTS. Anyone interested in providing advice or feedback on the PvP side of the game could participate, and based on their performance and win rate, the better-performing players could gain access to a dedicated forum thread where they can provide more detailed balancing feedback.

I have a strong feeling that a lot of the players complaining that Werewolf isn’t strong enough and offering suggestions on how it should be buffed are the same players who are already struggling to perform on Werewolf on the live servers. Balancing something around people who haven’t yet learned how to use it effectively risks addressing a player-skill issue by unnecessarily increasing the strength of the class or playstyle.

And before Wuffy and his pals inevitably make some silly comment: just as you wouldn’t trust a plumber to perform open-heart surgery, PvP balancing feedback should carry more weight when it comes from people who actually understand the PvP side of the game, can play it competitively and can demonstrate that through their performance.

That doesn’t mean less-skilled players shouldn’t be allowed an opinion. It means ZOS should be able to distinguish between “this is genuinely underpowered at a high level of play” and “I personally can’t make this work.”

We really don’t need ZOS continuing to lower the skill ceiling more and more, if anything the PVP needs to require more skill and effort from the player. Gear and CP shouldn’t have the impact they do now.

Hot take: I find pvp immeasurably easier on my two bar DK build with all the utility it provides compared to any one bar build. Always have, it's what I do when I don't care to put effort in.

Easiest PVP is Sorc by far thanks to the masteries, op dmg and streak. You got unlimited sustain, very high damage especially when you run stuff like huntsman, kjalnar’s or maarselok and you got streak to save your ass everytime you make mistakes - just hit streak, get away, heal back to full and go back to finish the job. There’s not enough punishment making mistakes as a sorc, as you can streak your way out of them and heal in peace.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin Hi! Can we expect another summary this week, or was this week 3 the last on this cycle?

Firstmep wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin Hi! Can we expect another summary this week, or was this week 3 the last on this cycle?

We'll get another summary, this PTS cycle is five weeks like the last one was.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin Hi! Can we expect another summary this week, or was this week 3 the last on this cycle?

Yep, I think the summary is going through final review. Should be out later today.

Are we going to have an update on when exactly we can expect the warden article to drop? Is it today or next week sometime?

@ZOS_Kevin can I ask if existing customized actions for werewolf may return? There are quite a few that look very nice and mesh well with the form that were disabled on PTS and I'm concerned about that.

Edit-

Here is an example of a 'clean' recall (the Luminous Recall of Anu from the newest crown crate bundle) via 'Xbox Game Clips':

https://www.xbox.com/play/media/egwF9HeYSw

Arunei wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

If they gave us the old werewolf again, with the reworked model. I can guarantee bad players will cry in here about ww being OP 😅

Even Pre rework WW was OP due to the extreme tankiness, it was super hard to kill one who’s constantly sprinting spamming ccs and heals. One bar playstyle - only noobs will take offense at the fact that it’s designed FOR NOOBS who find two bar playstyle too complex and difficult for them lol.
Why should you play the easiest possible way that requires the least amount of skill and effort and beat other players who have to deal with loads more micromanagement and time their stuff, etc?

I think it would be a good idea for ZOS to consider hosting organised duelling events on the PTS. Anyone interested in providing advice or feedback on the PvP side of the game could participate, and based on their performance and win rate, the better-performing players could gain access to a dedicated forum thread where they can provide more detailed balancing feedback.

I have a strong feeling that a lot of the players complaining that Werewolf isn’t strong enough and offering suggestions on how it should be buffed are the same players who are already struggling to perform on Werewolf on the live servers. Balancing something around people who haven’t yet learned how to use it effectively risks addressing a player-skill issue by unnecessarily increasing the strength of the class or playstyle.

And before Wuffy and his pals inevitably make some silly comment: just as you wouldn’t trust a plumber to perform open-heart surgery, PvP balancing feedback should carry more weight when it comes from people who actually understand the PvP side of the game, can play it competitively and can demonstrate that through their performance.

That doesn’t mean less-skilled players shouldn’t be allowed an opinion. It means ZOS should be able to distinguish between “this is genuinely underpowered at a high level of play” and “I personally can’t make this work.”

We really don’t need ZOS continuing to lower the skill ceiling more and more, if anything the PVP needs to require more skill and effort from the player. Gear and CP shouldn’t have the impact they do now.

I'm not going to engage further with someone who is actually sitting here saying that any given playstyle was only made for essentially bad players. You completely discredit your own argument by then claiming people are struggling to play WW. If it was supposed to be for bad players then they wouldn't be having problems. No one making such inane claims is arguing at all in anything but bad faith.

It's also hilarious given how people will still be getting jumped by top PvPers on WW more than likely even after things go Live if they stay as they are now. And those people will come here and demand more nerfs for them because they're still getting killed by them. Tale as old as time.

Believe it or not there’s tons of players who suck and can’t play even Sorc WW. They use wrong gear sets, cp and don’t understand how to use the abilities the right way, so calm down.

"Gupitoos wrote: »

You see if you’re a someone that sucks on a WW that’s on the live server now then your opinion should really carry no weight and MUST NOT be able to influence any balancing decisions that the combat team makes on the PVP side of things.

Like you?

shadoza wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

This is exactly the reason why my proposed fighting/duel event on the testlive is the best way forward so that the voices of skilled & experienced players who have spent time and effort on the PvP side of the game and who can publicly demonstrate their mastery of the game and skill levels before the team responsible for PVP combat changes IS THE ONLY solution and way forward.

You see if you’re a someone that sucks on a WW that’s on the live server now then your opinion should really carry no weight and MUST NOT be able to influence any balancing decisions that the combat team makes on the PVP side of things.

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom you know this right and makes sense..;)

You really believe that only those players that are GUD should have an opinion? That would be wrong on so many levels.
(Let us suggest then, as a comparison, that those players who 'suck' should pay less than those whoa re gud because that would make no sense either.)

An opinion on what needs adjusting on the PVP side of things yes. We do not need to keep lowering the skill ceiling. Just because you might be paying monthly sub does not mean the game should be designed for you to p2w doing nothing son.

It’s not wrong at all, why should players who haven’t spent enough time learning how the PvP side of things work and how to play right and instead just march towards it and keep losing be able to provide feedback and expect this feedback to be taken seriously by the devs and potentially lead to significant changes that will impact the players that worked hard to be where they are in PVP?

If you needed serious dental work, would you trust an 18-year-old who had only just applied to dental school, or would you go to the best qualified dentist you could afford—someone who has graduated, completed further training and has a proven track record of successful work?

Likewise, if you needed your patio renovated, would you hire some random bloke who only decided yesterday that he was going into the trade, or an established professional with the right experience and a long record of completing jobs properly?

This basic principle applies to almost everything in everyday life: knowledge, experience and proven ability matter. You wouldn’t place the same trust in a complete beginner as you would in someone who has repeatedly demonstrated that they know what they’re doing. So why should the developers give equal weight to inexperienced casual players who are only unhappy because they can’t god-mode their way through every fight by pressing two buttons?

This is exactly why the proposed fighting or duelling event on the PTS is the best way forward. It would allow players to demonstrate their actual knowledge and skill across different builds, matchups and combat situations while the developers observe the results directly. That would help separate informed feedback from empty opinions and ensure PvP changes are shaped primarily by players who genuinely understand the system and can prove it in practice.

Honestly, some people really need to think before they write nonsense. Guess what, thinking is free

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_JessicaFolsom