Something like this imho should not be tied to item set, but rather maybe to ww passive or maybe something similar to "class mastery" but in WW skill line. So you could choose 2 out of like 5 so it would fit your gameplay. Tying set to a ww like that would make it bis in all content for all builds, effectively further killing ww build diversity that is already dying (sorc orc for every WW build next patch).

Chrlynsch wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I'd need to double check this but I assume mylenne's generates 35 fury every 10 seconds with the werewolf passive.

When not using Hircine's rage & Mylenne's it will takes about 40s of actively using abilies on cooldown to generate enough fury to activate Rampage.

Using Mylenne's should take you 35 seconds to build your fury. Which basically takes you from 50% uptime of Rampage to 62.5% uptime when chaining it, as you can gain fury while rampage is active. Essentially a reduction of 25% in downtime which is actually pretty nice for the other benefits it grants (especially in pve land).

This stam return is horrendous. Constant parsing resulted in 81 stam per second (or 162 'stam recov') on a straight parse.

Obviously it's based on 'damage done' but against players... the tooltip is halfed (as half of its damage or so has an 'OUT of Battle Spirit' condition), the tooltip is halfed again due to Battle Spirit, and players tend to build SIGNIFICANTLY more mitigation than the average add.

So before even accounting for other players' mitigation, the stam return (which is based off 'damage done') is 162/2 (since half of set damage locked behind 'OUT of Battle Spirit') which equals 81/2 (since half of damage is reduced by default by Battle Spirit) which results in 40 or so 'stamina recovery' from that set before mitigations:





To note, the tooltip damage (whatever your given build would put it at) results in being lower due to our own 'in Battle Spirit' wep/spell damage reduction (20% on our passive to 10%) which means that because these proc sets scale exclusively off of wep/spell, the tooltip itself would be EVEN LOWER (by a noticeable margin) while in PvP also.

Ran some quick tests found some interesting interactions, first note is it looks like the werewolf fury passive is functional however the tooltip for Mylenne's is actually only 15 without the passive applying. Thus 25 fury.

Regularly weaving LAs with abilities this is the time it takes to get rampage ready:

Rip and Tear spam: 45 seconds (44% Rampage uptime)
Rip and Tear + Mylenne's: 42 seconds (48% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage: 33 Seconds (60% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage x2: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's+ Hircine's Rage x2: 25 seconds (80% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam: 23 seconds. (88% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam + Mylenne's: 20s (100% Rampage uptime aka werewolf pinatas mode!)

35 fury would go a lot farther than the current 25. We can see it is pulling roughy 3 seconds off due to when it procs within the cadence and biggest swing in uptime comes from pinata mode or standard offensive rotation. Uptime would be under ideal conditions in a fight while chaining Rampage while available.

Oh haha- that's interesting then! So the passive is actually affecting the tooltip itself and the 25 is the 'buffed' tooltip for fury. Good to know!

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I'd need to double check this but I assume mylenne's generates 35 fury every 10 seconds with the werewolf passive.

When not using Hircine's rage & Mylenne's it will takes about 40s of actively using abilies on cooldown to generate enough fury to activate Rampage.

Using Mylenne's should take you 35 seconds to build your fury. Which basically takes you from 50% uptime of Rampage to 62.5% uptime when chaining it, as you can gain fury while rampage is active. Essentially a reduction of 25% in downtime which is actually pretty nice for the other benefits it grants (especially in pve land).

This stam return is horrendous. Constant parsing resulted in 81 stam per second (or 162 'stam recov') on a straight parse.

Obviously it's based on 'damage done' but against players... the tooltip is halfed (as half of its damage or so has an 'OUT of Battle Spirit' condition), the tooltip is halfed again due to Battle Spirit, and players tend to build SIGNIFICANTLY more mitigation than the average add.

So before even accounting for other players' mitigation, the stam return (which is based off 'damage done') is 162/2 (since half of set damage locked behind 'OUT of Battle Spirit') which equals 81/2 (since half of damage is reduced by default by Battle Spirit) which results in 40 or so 'stamina recovery' from that set before mitigations:





To note, the tooltip damage (whatever your given build would put it at) results in being lower due to our own 'in Battle Spirit' wep/spell damage reduction (20% on our passive to 10%) which means that because these proc sets scale exclusively off of wep/spell, the tooltip itself would be EVEN LOWER (by a noticeable margin) while in PvP also.

Ran some quick tests found some interesting interactions, first note is it looks like the werewolf fury passive is functional however the tooltip for Mylenne's is actually only 15 without the passive applying. Thus 25 fury.

Regularly weaving LAs with abilities this is the time it takes to get rampage ready:

Rip and Tear spam: 45 seconds (44% Rampage uptime)
Rip and Tear + Mylenne's: 42 seconds (48% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage: 33 Seconds (60% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage x2: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's+ Hircine's Rage x2: 25 seconds (80% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam: 23 seconds. (88% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam + Mylenne's: 20s (100% Rampage uptime aka werewolf pinatas mode!)

35 fury would go a lot farther than the current 25. We can see it is pulling roughy 3 seconds off due to when it procs within the cadence and biggest swing in uptime comes from pinata mode or standard offensive rotation. Uptime would be under ideal conditions in a fight while chaining Rampage while available.

Very cool, im excited that 100% uptime has been achieved (as impractical as it is). I still dont think mylenne will be viable because it means giving up a 5 piece set or a mythic for it since a ww can not backbar sets but it at least reframes the importance of every bit of fury generation in my mind.

Will keep in my for if they ever release a good 3 piece set or maybe if they make ww arena weapons a thing ^^

To be honest the Hircine's Rage spam is actually a great tool to use to maintain your form. In pvp using it if you have broken traditional engagement and have Enrage going. You can bridge well into your next enrage by HR spam alone. I use this on my berserker a lot in BGs as a way to keep my form up when stuck in combat when solo wolfing it.

In PVE it works great for fights that have long phases where you can't attack like in March of Sacrafices or dragon encounters with flyovers.

There is a vast issue with a healing spammable that only heals for around 6k on a ‘damage’ build, that no longer provides major vitality to werewolf (meaning can no longer be achieved in-kit), and causes the user to take up 12% more damage.

I’ve tried Hircine’s Rage and on paper it looks worth it but in practice I’ve found it to be too problematic in the following order:

-should you take significant burst and/or the opponent has a ‘debuff’ window like incap/onslaught/corro, its tiny value (again, 6k non-crits on a ‘damage build’) does not lean itself towards surviving high-constant damage.

-damage taken up to 12% for the trade-off is good in theory but proc sets (as you can see with the majority of wolves you come across with high DPS) are the go-to for damage which makes ‘building to be tanky to mitigate’ less impactful for what you can build as even the damage increase itself isn’t that drastic if you must replace (let’s say) Savage Werewolf to run this morph with a certain level of safety.

-next patch especially, the reduced stam return waiting for Rampage will be felt with the weakened heal and damage taken debuff in all but the most optimal scenarios. It can be made to work in a group but solo I don’t feel like this is a ‘fair trade-off’ especially as Berserker werewolf which is already taking ‘more’ damage due to lack of major protection.

This is simply my experience but it’s not at all surprising to me how something that tooltips for 20% less than a standardized wep/spell heal (breath of life) and causes me to take 12% increased damage along with the rest of the kit still calling for health-based healing largely (meaning I must pull scaling away from Stamina specifically to make the rest of the kit work) is not great in actual practice and not just based on my own experience.

Edit: this is a 'damage build' w/ Hircine's Rage (VERY SQUISHY) but parsing 62-63k (reminder that despite being 'squishy' I still have to run 'health' for my other heals; high health does not equal 'tanky' especially with the Hircine's Rage damage taken debuff)





My Hircine's Rage (which I also take 12% increased damage for):



MY Hircine's Fortitude results in 50% more healing (even post-nerf results in better healing given that Hircine's Rage is so WEAK):



Weapon and spell damage buffed-up (my health is still over 40k, as shown above):

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I'd need to double check this but I assume mylenne's generates 35 fury every 10 seconds with the werewolf passive.

When not using Hircine's rage & Mylenne's it will takes about 40s of actively using abilies on cooldown to generate enough fury to activate Rampage.

Using Mylenne's should take you 35 seconds to build your fury. Which basically takes you from 50% uptime of Rampage to 62.5% uptime when chaining it, as you can gain fury while rampage is active. Essentially a reduction of 25% in downtime which is actually pretty nice for the other benefits it grants (especially in pve land).

This stam return is horrendous. Constant parsing resulted in 81 stam per second (or 162 'stam recov') on a straight parse.

Obviously it's based on 'damage done' but against players... the tooltip is halfed (as half of its damage or so has an 'OUT of Battle Spirit' condition), the tooltip is halfed again due to Battle Spirit, and players tend to build SIGNIFICANTLY more mitigation than the average add.

So before even accounting for other players' mitigation, the stam return (which is based off 'damage done') is 162/2 (since half of set damage locked behind 'OUT of Battle Spirit') which equals 81/2 (since half of damage is reduced by default by Battle Spirit) which results in 40 or so 'stamina recovery' from that set before mitigations:





To note, the tooltip damage (whatever your given build would put it at) results in being lower due to our own 'in Battle Spirit' wep/spell damage reduction (20% on our passive to 10%) which means that because these proc sets scale exclusively off of wep/spell, the tooltip itself would be EVEN LOWER (by a noticeable margin) while in PvP also.

Ran some quick tests found some interesting interactions, first note is it looks like the werewolf fury passive is functional however the tooltip for Mylenne's is actually only 15 without the passive applying. Thus 25 fury.

Regularly weaving LAs with abilities this is the time it takes to get rampage ready:

Rip and Tear spam: 45 seconds (44% Rampage uptime)
Rip and Tear + Mylenne's: 42 seconds (48% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage: 33 Seconds (60% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage x2: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's+ Hircine's Rage x2: 25 seconds (80% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam: 23 seconds. (88% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam + Mylenne's: 20s (100% Rampage uptime aka werewolf pinatas mode!)

35 fury would go a lot farther than the current 25. We can see it is pulling roughy 3 seconds off due to when it procs within the cadence and biggest swing in uptime comes from pinata mode or standard offensive rotation. Uptime would be under ideal conditions in a fight while chaining Rampage while available.

Oh haha- that's interesting then! So the passive is actually affecting the tooltip itself and the 25 is the 'buffed' tooltip for fury. Good to know!

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I'd need to double check this but I assume mylenne's generates 35 fury every 10 seconds with the werewolf passive.

When not using Hircine's rage & Mylenne's it will takes about 40s of actively using abilies on cooldown to generate enough fury to activate Rampage.

Using Mylenne's should take you 35 seconds to build your fury. Which basically takes you from 50% uptime of Rampage to 62.5% uptime when chaining it, as you can gain fury while rampage is active. Essentially a reduction of 25% in downtime which is actually pretty nice for the other benefits it grants (especially in pve land).

This stam return is horrendous. Constant parsing resulted in 81 stam per second (or 162 'stam recov') on a straight parse.

Obviously it's based on 'damage done' but against players... the tooltip is halfed (as half of its damage or so has an 'OUT of Battle Spirit' condition), the tooltip is halfed again due to Battle Spirit, and players tend to build SIGNIFICANTLY more mitigation than the average add.

So before even accounting for other players' mitigation, the stam return (which is based off 'damage done') is 162/2 (since half of set damage locked behind 'OUT of Battle Spirit') which equals 81/2 (since half of damage is reduced by default by Battle Spirit) which results in 40 or so 'stamina recovery' from that set before mitigations:





To note, the tooltip damage (whatever your given build would put it at) results in being lower due to our own 'in Battle Spirit' wep/spell damage reduction (20% on our passive to 10%) which means that because these proc sets scale exclusively off of wep/spell, the tooltip itself would be EVEN LOWER (by a noticeable margin) while in PvP also.

Ran some quick tests found some interesting interactions, first note is it looks like the werewolf fury passive is functional however the tooltip for Mylenne's is actually only 15 without the passive applying. Thus 25 fury.

Regularly weaving LAs with abilities this is the time it takes to get rampage ready:

Rip and Tear spam: 45 seconds (44% Rampage uptime)
Rip and Tear + Mylenne's: 42 seconds (48% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage: 33 Seconds (60% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage x2: 28 seconds (71% Rampage Uptime)
Rip and Tear + Feral Carnage + Mylenne's+ Hircine's Rage x2: 25 seconds (80% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam: 23 seconds. (88% Rampage Uptime)
Feral Carnage + Hircine's Rage spam + Mylenne's: 20s (100% Rampage uptime aka werewolf pinatas mode!)

35 fury would go a lot farther than the current 25. We can see it is pulling roughy 3 seconds off due to when it procs within the cadence and biggest swing in uptime comes from pinata mode or standard offensive rotation. Uptime would be under ideal conditions in a fight while chaining Rampage while available.

Very cool, im excited that 100% uptime has been achieved (as impractical as it is). I still dont think mylenne will be viable because it means giving up a 5 piece set or a mythic for it since a ww can not backbar sets but it at least reframes the importance of every bit of fury generation in my mind.

Will keep in my for if they ever release a good 3 piece set or maybe if they make ww arena weapons a thing ^^

To be honest the Hircine's Rage spam is actually a great tool to use to maintain your form. In pvp using it if you have broken traditional engagement and have Enrage going. You can bridge well into your next enrage by HR spam alone. I use this on my berserker a lot in BGs as a way to keep my form up when stuck in combat when solo wolfing it.

In PVE it works great for fights that have long phases where you can't attack like in March of Sacrafices or dragon encounters with flyovers.

There is a vast issue with a healing spammable that only heals for around 6k on a ‘damage’ build, that no longer provides major vitality to werewolf (meaning can no longer be achieved in-kit), and causes the user to take up 12% more damage.

I’ve tried Hircine’s Rage and on paper it looks worth it but in practice I’ve found it to be too problematic in the following order:

-should you take significant burst and/or the opponent has a ‘debuff’ window like incap/onslaught/corro, its tiny value (again, 6k non-crits on a ‘damage build’) does not lean itself towards surviving high-constant damage.

-damage taken up to 12% for the trade-off is good in theory but proc sets (as you can see with the majority of wolves you come across with high DPS) are the go-to for damage which makes ‘building to be tanky to mitigate’ less impactful for what you can build as even the damage increase itself isn’t that drastic if you must replace (let’s say) Savage Werewolf to run this morph with a certain level of safety.

-next patch especially, the reduced stam return waiting for Rampage will be felt with the weakened heal and damage taken debuff in all but the most optimal scenarios. It can be made to work in a group but solo I don’t feel like this is a ‘fair trade-off’ especially as Berserker werewolf which is already taking ‘more’ damage due to lack of major protection.

This is simply my experience but it’s not at all surprising to me how something that tooltips for 20% less than a standardized wep/spell heal (breath of life) and causes me to take 12% increased damage along with the rest of the kit still calling for health-based healing largely (meaning I must pull scaling away from Stamina specifically to make the rest of the kit work) is not great in actual practice and not just based on my own experience.

Edit: this is a 'damage build' w/ Hircine's Rage (VERY SQUISHY) but parsing 62-63k (reminder that despite being 'squishy' I still have to run 'health' for my other heals; high health does not equal 'tanky' especially with the Hircine's Rage damage taken debuff)





My Hircine's Rage (which I also take 12% increased damage for):



MY Hircine's Fortitude results in 50% more healing (even post-nerf results in better healing given that Hircine's Rage is so WEAK):



Weapon and spell damage buffed-up (my health is still over 40k, as shown above):

The build I use it with utilizes a bit more utility, so I'm able to get about 10k+ Hircine rage heals the majority of the time. Rip and tears do about the same ramping to about 10k, build can only hit about 55k dps on a dummy so it doesn't achieve as much top end dps as the one you posted. If I went Hircine's fortitude I would get about 13k heals as my health hovers around 41k.