Firstmep wrote: »

What's lt i wonder. Not saying its not deserved, altho to be fair this is, or well was, one of the few tools that could help effectively combat the permablock meta. Really wish this change was accompanied with some dot buffs, or some nerfs to permablocking in PVP.

Totally uncalled for if it's intentional. Maarselok is a powerful set, but it's balanced and fun to use. If anything this should be held as a standard for strong monster sets. New monster sets have been underwhelming. Nerfing Maarselok isn't going to mean people will suddenly start wanting to use "The Ruckus", just continues the trend of sledgehammering viable and fun playstyles out of the game without providing a decent alternative.

It's baffling honestly.

Would be extremely uncalled for

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Would be extremely uncalled for

It’s in line with their assault on DoT builds we’ve seen this PTS cycle, the most confusing thing to me is that a set like Maarselok gets priority over Jerall’s?

Which is more of a problem?

Really hope it's just a mistake, most monster set options are so bad rn.

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Would be extremely uncalled for

It’s in line with their assault on DoT builds we’ve seen this PTS cycle, the most confusing thing to me is that a set like Maarselok gets priority over Jerall’s?

Which is more of a problem?

Guess everyone will wear Balorgh and they'll like it. Type of build diversity this game needs.

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Would be extremely uncalled for

It’s in line with their assault on DoT builds we’ve seen this PTS cycle, the most confusing thing to me is that a set like Maarselok gets priority over Jerall’s?

Which is more of a problem?

Neither are a problem. I didn't even think Draugrkin needed to be nerfed this pts.

gammelscroll wrote: »

Maarselok was so OP. Every dot sorc is running maarselok, and it hit for 15-25k. No other monster set is even close to this. That nerf was needed

It hit decently and unfortunately we don't have really any other damage helm procs that match.

I think it stood out among other poor offerings but when I ran it I guess I was doing something wrong or trying it on dks and wws because for me it was just ok damage. Sadly I'm monster sets ok damage stands out among other poor choices.

No yeah, Maarselok definitely needs a nerf. Its damage has to be reduced like to half of the value what it is on live. No need for 45k hp builds that you cant stand near because of their DPS. If you want damage fine, sacrifice survivability. If you want survivability that is also fine but then sacrifice damage.

Radiate77 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

Would be extremely uncalled for

It’s in line with their assault on DoT builds we’ve seen this PTS cycle, the most confusing thing to me is that a set like Maarselok gets priority over Jerall’s?

Which is more of a problem?

Jerall isn't an issue in my testing. You usually only kill players that you would probably kill with any other monster set on. Healing is just too high in this game and most people have major vitality or other healing buffs or sources coming in.

Jerall is not being used as a tool to kill healers, it’s being used to completely shut off any counterplay to DOT builds.

You lose an unbearable portion of your healing, and it completely disrupts your ability to cleanse negative effects, as a stack of Jerall is not one purge.

On Templar you get 5 cleanses for 5000 magicka.
Do the math on that one.

I used it to try to kill everything. In some cases it seemed to work but in other cases it could be full stacks on a player and they seemed to heal fine.

Not saying the debuff doesn't work, just that healing options are so strong right now, especially on the most popular classes or wws.

Personally I have had more deaths to just straight damage but it's all relative to player and build.

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Personally I have had more deaths to just straight damage but it's all relative to player and build.

Can you not make the correlation between the race to heal and the race to DPS?

When you’re getting hit by the strongest debuff in the game, and it is uncleansable, you’re playing on a ticking clock, you have until their DOTs completely drain you of resources as defensive skills cost more than offensive ones.

It’s simple math, if your opponent does more damage than you heal, you die. If you invest into better resource sustain than your opponent to compensate, you stalemate.

Picture this, two players at the same skill level…

Both dodge and block equally, one player does 6k DPS, one player heals 3k HPS, who wins?

If it’s even a question, Jerall wins the fight and it’s without contest, and for that to be said about a two piece is insanity balance-wise.

But hey, let’s kill Maarselok. 👍

Radiate77 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Personally I have had more deaths to just straight damage but it's all relative to player and build.

Can you not make the correlation between the race to heal and the race to DPS?

When you’re getting hit by the strongest debuff in the game, and it is uncleansable, you’re playing on a ticking clock, you have until their DOTs completely drain you of resources as defensive skills cost more than offensive ones.

It’s simple math, if your opponent does more damage than you heal, you die. If you invest into better resource sustain than your opponent to compensate, you stalemate.

Picture this, two players at the same skill level…

Both dodge and block equally, one player does 6k DPS, one player heals 3k HPS, who wins?

If it’s even a question, Jerall wins the fight and it’s without contest, and for that to be said about a two piece is insanity balance-wise.

But hey, let’s kill Maarselok. 👍

So ok I'm talking about deaths that happen in seconds to vicious death, overloaded dk whip in corrosive or onslaught, buggy we cc with high damage rip n test spam.

Not that I die often, my k to d ratio is fairly high. I'm a sorc so I have shields and movement to counteract someone trying to maintain this effect on me

Like I said I can kill people with or without it and after much testing moved to more damage oriented sets.

Jeralla needs what 10 seconds sustained damage to get max stacks and sustained damage to key it up.

If your kit and skill level is such that my damage can't make you have to break away then you're either a tank or you were going to kill me because I don't have enough damage.

I'm not saying jerall isn't interesting or strong. Just that in my actual testing or gameplay it wasn't op when killing people and didn't result in many at all deaths where I just couldn't heal up fast enough.

If you killed someone while wearing jerall I bet money you could just as easily kill them if you replaced it with something like balorgh.

To be clear I'm not speaking of duels. I play in larger size fights and of course lol players usually one at a time depending on build. But they usually have more chances to catch off heals or offset it with cp or class options.

Radiate77 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Personally I have had more deaths to just straight damage but it's all relative to player and build.

Can you not make the correlation between the race to heal and the race to DPS?

When you’re getting hit by the strongest debuff in the game, and it is uncleansable, you’re playing on a ticking clock, you have until their DOTs completely drain you of resources as defensive skills cost more than offensive ones.

It’s simple math, if your opponent does more damage than you heal, you die. If you invest into better resource sustain than your opponent to compensate, you stalemate.

Picture this, two players at the same skill level…

Both dodge and block equally, one player does 6k DPS, one player heals 3k HPS, who wins?

If it’s even a question, Jerall wins the fight and it’s without contest, and for that to be said about a two piece is insanity balance-wise.

But hey, let’s kill Maarselok. 👍

So ok I'm talking about deaths that happen in seconds to vicious death, overloaded dk whip in corrosive or onslaught, buggy we cc with high damage rip n test spam.

Not that I die often, my k to d ratio is fairly high. I'm a sorc so I have shields and movement to counteract someone trying to maintain this effect on me

Like I said I can kill people with or without it and after much testing moved to more damage oriented sets.

Jeralla needs what 10 seconds sustained damage to get max stacks and sustained damage to key it up.

If your kit and skill level is such that my damage can't make you have to break away then you're either a tank or you were going to kill me because I don't have enough damage.

I'm not saying jerall isn't interesting or strong. Just that in my actual testing or gameplay it wasn't op when killing people and didn't result in many at all deaths where I just couldn't heal up fast enough.

If you killed someone while wearing jerall I bet money you could just as easily kill them if you replaced it with something like balorgh.

To be clear I'm not speaking of duels. I play in larger size fights and of course lol players usually one at a time depending on build. But they usually have more chances to catch off heals or offset it with cp or class options.

If you’re a shield stacking Sorc, there’s zero chance that you’d have the bar space to actually play a DOT build. So why are you commenting on the impact of Jerall’s on DOT playstyles when you have self-admitted you have no experience using it on the referenced playstyle… ? 👀

Of course you’re not going to get close to the same yield from a set on a spec that is not designed to take advantage of it.

That would be like using the Wilderqueen set that reduces the movement speed of targets you shoot with a bow while not having a bow equipped, and then jumping on the forum to say Wilderqueen is an over or underpowered set…

If you have no valid experience, why comment?

By your own admission you don’t duel either, I would advise you learn how to. There’s a lot of valuable information you can pick up as a player by doing so. That said, dueling is in the least balanced state it has ever been due to sets like Jerall’s but hey, that’s also a lesson that has value.

Making a lot of assumptions but I will add one correction. I said shields and what I meant is recasting not stacking.

I play full class not subclass and I absolutely have a dot build with pretty much all status effects other than disease.

I have all status effect dots and 3n other dots so yes I put dot pressure on them. I've done it with and without reverb and through momomyth and other mythics.

I do enjoy dots and have killed many with them. I still have golded out jeralls, just don't really put it on because most times I'd kill them before it really did a whole lot.

I even added defile to wield soul with disease for minor defile here and there during testing of various builds.

It's not bad and will absolutely contribute to the kill but I get more faster if I just combo them out with dots or direct damage into a stun and burst.

If they are better opponents then yeah it takes longer but at that point I'm also stacking a debuff on myself though granted it's less. All in all for me it's been easier to just keep up my damage and use offense as defense mostly.

Sure you can put your dots on me and debuff my healing but at that point we're both on a clock and I'd just prefer being faster on ttk. And of course if I notice my healing going down I'm going to disengage and try to reset your stacks and the fight to my advantage hopefully.

As for dueling, I have many characters and probably at least 10 of them have the duelist title. I don't do it anymore because balance just got worse and worse over the years. It's less about skill and more about build and that's not really interesting to me.

Maarselok nerf was well deserved, now let’s move on to Kjalnar’s

Radiate77 wrote: »

Jerall is not being used as a tool to kill healers, it’s being used to completely shut off any counterplay to DOT builds.

You lose an unbearable portion of your healing, and it completely disrupts your ability to cleanse negative effects, as a ten stack of Jerall is not one purge.

On Templar you get 5 cleanses for 5000 magicka.
Do the math on that one.

Jerall also breaks invisibility every time it reapplies to a nightblade, so it gets used to shut down cloak/invis the same way that structured entropy was used a few patches ago.

It existing as dot protection is... idk, there should be other ways for dot builds to protect their dots and punish people for purging them.

This is limiting playstyles.
Play how you want (fun) is becoming less and less.
I have a dot arc that will be gutted in the damage department.i feel like arc dmg 1vX along with necro are the least played classes. And this nerf will only make it worse.

No worries, guess I’ll just get back on; play like everyone else and get back on my Sorc WW and DK molten.
The nerfs to WW and DK won’t do anything btw regarding PvP.
You can just run wretched to offset inhale nerf, and run molten combo set up instead of lash morph.
WW Sorc with class mastery laughs at this nerf, shrugs it off. Won’t be able to spam heal as much but LOS and spam other skills to get back magicka/stamina, Ez peazy.

If maars dmg is nerfed 10% fair..if it’s only applicable in PvE…the combat team would be very out of touch for doing so.

I can only imagine the whispers when I switch from Maars to Jeralls, especially if I decide to Zerg it up with Jeralls in cyro; 8 team bg team stack. You know what, think I’ll just go switch right now in nerf preparation.

Ultimately these changes are very out of touch and DOT builds should be viable because they add nice diversities to the elements of PvP. Most classes can be viable on a DOT spec set up..including arc, necro, templar dps builds.

If Anything…perma block and troll healer Templar “clapper” builds need to be looked at in PvP, more so cyro.
Troll builds are a huge problem in cyro, CP red and blue trees for perma blockers make it worse.
Siege damage killing troll builds could be a thing. Temporarily reducing heals from ulti to 0% and reducing block mitigation to 0% for 3 seconds or so.