Update 51 PTS – Week 3 Summary

Turtle_Bot · August 25

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance we could get the Sorcerer class flourish to count as "Sorcerer damage", or have reverb adjusted to proc off Shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (since Shock is supposed to be Sorcerers thematic element).

Static Reverberation: This passive now triggers off Sorcerer ability damage, rather than any damage. Increased the base proc chance to 20%, up from 5%. Reduced the cooldown to 100ms, down from 300ms.

[Developer Comment]
We're making a targeted approach here to correct some behaviors we've seen since this passive's introduction, where the optimal use of the previous iteration was to stack many non-Sorcerer attacks to trigger it as frequently as possible, introducing counter-intuitive design where the reward to playing your class is to use non-class abilities. To account for this restriction, we're trying to make sure building around it still is relatively as strong as it was before, so the base chances are higher, and can trigger more frequently when a target is near death. We'll keep an eye on this passive (especially in PvP) as this should help correct some of the more problematic use cases we've seen, but it may also introduce more devastation to where Sorcerers can already be quite powerful.

I also want to raise the issue of the adjustment to Reverbs Frequency. We used to have a faster frequency when the mastery was introduced in U50 (it was 0.2s), but it was quickly determined that Sorcerer in it's class kit cannot keep up with such a hyper fast frequency since the class doesn't have any targeted damage over time abilities or status effects within it's class kit and the only multi-hit ability was Bound Armaments that ticks at 0.25-0.3 seconds (or up to 3 times slower than this new 100ms frequency).
While on paper it seems like the frequency increase is a "buff" to this mastery, in practical terms, it does next to nothing because there is nothing in the class kit to make use of this change.

Keeping it at the current 300ms frequency, but allowing it to work with shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (or just making the class flourish count as Sorcerer damage) would be a good middle ground, so it can be semi-generic (as long as the player is building directly into the classes element/theme), but not so completely generic as to create issues (like it was when stacking multiple DoTs all with their own durations, status effect procs that are also additional DoTs, and chances to proc it).

If needed, reducing the base chance from 20% down to 10% alongside reverting the frequency changes would be another way to balance it, if changing it to allow any Shock damage to count for it alongside Sorcerer damage would be too problematic.

Firstmep · August 25

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance we could get the Sorcerer class flourish to count as "Sorcerer damage", or have reverb adjusted to proc off Shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (since Shock is supposed to be Sorcerers thematic element).

Static Reverberation: This passive now triggers off Sorcerer ability damage, rather than any damage. Increased the base proc chance to 20%, up from 5%. Reduced the cooldown to 100ms, down from 300ms.

[Developer Comment]
We're making a targeted approach here to correct some behaviors we've seen since this passive's introduction, where the optimal use of the previous iteration was to stack many non-Sorcerer attacks to trigger it as frequently as possible, introducing counter-intuitive design where the reward to playing your class is to use non-class abilities. To account for this restriction, we're trying to make sure building around it still is relatively as strong as it was before, so the base chances are higher, and can trigger more frequently when a target is near death. We'll keep an eye on this passive (especially in PvP) as this should help correct some of the more problematic use cases we've seen, but it may also introduce more devastation to where Sorcerers can already be quite powerful.

I also want to raise the issue of the adjustment to Reverbs Frequency. We used to have a faster frequency when the mastery was introduced in U50 (it was 0.2s), but it was quickly determined that Sorcerer in it's class kit cannot keep up with such a hyper fast frequency since the class doesn't have any targeted damage over time abilities or status effects within it's class kit and the only multi-hit ability was Bound Armaments that ticks at 0.25-0.3 seconds (or up to 3 times slower than this new 100ms frequency).
While on paper it seems like the frequency increase is a "buff" to this mastery, in practical terms, it does next to nothing because there is nothing in the class kit to make use of this change.

Keeping it at the current 300ms frequency, but allowing it to work with shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (or just making the class flourish count as Sorcerer damage) would be a good middle ground, so it can be semi-generic (as long as the player is building directly into the classes element/theme), but not so completely generic as to create issues (like it was when stacking multiple DoTs all with their own durations, status effect procs that are also additional DoTs, and chances to proc it).

If needed, reducing the base chance from 20% down to 10% alongside reverting the frequency changes would be another way to balance it, if changing it to allow any Shock damage to count for it alongside Sorcerer damage would be too problematic.

Status effects and procs never proccd reverb to begin with.
Also if they allow generic Shock damage to proc it, they will have to lower the proc chance again.
Keep in mind with the current pts value you get a 50% chance to proc it on someone with 70% hp or less. That's pretty solid, and I think the new cd is more there to stop overlapping procs from multiple hits at the same time. But for example a curse/frag combo hitting at the same ish time will easily happen 100 ms apart for both to proc it.

I think we should give a chance to this current iteration, sorc already has too many generic masteries as is.

Umbracat449 · August 25

Faltasë wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

At this point, given the abilities of really good AI in tackling advanced mathematical problems, as we can read in the news, I think zos should get hold of somewhere that has a good model, feed the classes and the parameters in, and get it to build the classes and balance the game.

Absolutely not. AI is commonly filled with what I like to call AI psychosis. You can get misinformation and unclarity using AI often because it's not smart enough to even do complex physics problems, and needs very specific inputs and parameters for outputs.

Source: I used that *** in college, and I had TO CORRECT AI constantly, and 9/10 times I still wouldn't get "correct" results.

This is a terrible suggestion. DO NOT USE AI.

Not to mention, we have seen with Cyrodiil and BGs and PvE in the past that their numbers/spreadsheet methodology only approaches led to things like update 35 and look how dogwash that was, yeah?

Extremely basic AI prompt cracks decades-old maths problem | New Scientist https://share.google/ugZVCEHmh75wvsipm

Why the Legendary Erdős Problems Are Falling to AI | Quanta Magazine https://share.google/6n8FoCaGaACi1zKQC

Think you might be a bit out of date with the abilities of the latest models. And these aren't publicly available models.

Id be giving it a try, myself. If i could organise access. Because the current approach isn't working.

Aces-High-82 · August 25

Firstmep wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance we could get the Sorcerer class flourish to count as "Sorcerer damage", or have reverb adjusted to proc off Shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (since Shock is supposed to be Sorcerers thematic element).

Static Reverberation: This passive now triggers off Sorcerer ability damage, rather than any damage. Increased the base proc chance to 20%, up from 5%. Reduced the cooldown to 100ms, down from 300ms.

[Developer Comment]
We're making a targeted approach here to correct some behaviors we've seen since this passive's introduction, where the optimal use of the previous iteration was to stack many non-Sorcerer attacks to trigger it as frequently as possible, introducing counter-intuitive design where the reward to playing your class is to use non-class abilities. To account for this restriction, we're trying to make sure building around it still is relatively as strong as it was before, so the base chances are higher, and can trigger more frequently when a target is near death. We'll keep an eye on this passive (especially in PvP) as this should help correct some of the more problematic use cases we've seen, but it may also introduce more devastation to where Sorcerers can already be quite powerful.

I also want to raise the issue of the adjustment to Reverbs Frequency. We used to have a faster frequency when the mastery was introduced in U50 (it was 0.2s), but it was quickly determined that Sorcerer in it's class kit cannot keep up with such a hyper fast frequency since the class doesn't have any targeted damage over time abilities or status effects within it's class kit and the only multi-hit ability was Bound Armaments that ticks at 0.25-0.3 seconds (or up to 3 times slower than this new 100ms frequency).
While on paper it seems like the frequency increase is a "buff" to this mastery, in practical terms, it does next to nothing because there is nothing in the class kit to make use of this change.

Keeping it at the current 300ms frequency, but allowing it to work with shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (or just making the class flourish count as Sorcerer damage) would be a good middle ground, so it can be semi-generic (as long as the player is building directly into the classes element/theme), but not so completely generic as to create issues (like it was when stacking multiple DoTs all with their own durations, status effect procs that are also additional DoTs, and chances to proc it).

If needed, reducing the base chance from 20% down to 10% alongside reverting the frequency changes would be another way to balance it, if changing it to allow any Shock damage to count for it alongside Sorcerer damage would be too problematic.

Status effects and procs never proccd reverb to begin with.
Also if they allow generic Shock damage to proc it, they will have to lower the proc chance again.
Keep in mind with the current pts value you get a 50% chance to proc it on someone with 70% hp or less. That's pretty solid, and I think the new cd is more there to stop overlapping procs from multiple hits at the same time. But for example a curse/frag combo hitting at the same ish time will easily happen 100 ms apart for both to proc it.

I think we should give a chance to this current iteration, sorc already has too many generic masteries as is.

If Monolith would proc of any sorcerer damage the set finally would become usefull. Esp with the Reverb Change, now that MoS proc is considered as Sorc damage.

o_Primate_o · August 25

When i read that they will fix Castle Thorn, I had to check online news if pigs gained the ability to fly.

Castle Thorn
Lady Thorn
Fixed: Batswarm's safe area could become visually desynched.

madmufffin · August 25

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance we could get the Sorcerer class flourish to count as "Sorcerer damage", or have reverb adjusted to proc off Shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (since Shock is supposed to be Sorcerers thematic element).

Static Reverberation: This passive now triggers off Sorcerer ability damage, rather than any damage. Increased the base proc chance to 20%, up from 5%. Reduced the cooldown to 100ms, down from 300ms.

[Developer Comment]
We're making a targeted approach here to correct some behaviors we've seen since this passive's introduction, where the optimal use of the previous iteration was to stack many non-Sorcerer attacks to trigger it as frequently as possible, introducing counter-intuitive design where the reward to playing your class is to use non-class abilities. To account for this restriction, we're trying to make sure building around it still is relatively as strong as it was before, so the base chances are higher, and can trigger more frequently when a target is near death. We'll keep an eye on this passive (especially in PvP) as this should help correct some of the more problematic use cases we've seen, but it may also introduce more devastation to where Sorcerers can already be quite powerful.

I also want to raise the issue of the adjustment to Reverbs Frequency. We used to have a faster frequency when the mastery was introduced in U50 (it was 0.2s), but it was quickly determined that Sorcerer in it's class kit cannot keep up with such a hyper fast frequency since the class doesn't have any targeted damage over time abilities or status effects within it's class kit and the only multi-hit ability was Bound Armaments that ticks at 0.25-0.3 seconds (or up to 3 times slower than this new 100ms frequency).
While on paper it seems like the frequency increase is a "buff" to this mastery, in practical terms, it does next to nothing because there is nothing in the class kit to make use of this change.

Keeping it at the current 300ms frequency, but allowing it to work with shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (or just making the class flourish count as Sorcerer damage) would be a good middle ground, so it can be semi-generic (as long as the player is building directly into the classes element/theme), but not so completely generic as to create issues (like it was when stacking multiple DoTs all with their own durations, status effect procs that are also additional DoTs, and chances to proc it).

If needed, reducing the base chance from 20% down to 10% alongside reverting the frequency changes would be another way to balance it, if changing it to allow any Shock damage to count for it alongside Sorcerer damage would be too problematic.

I'm sure only being able to play in melee range to have access to a dps mastery is totally fine and in line with their spreadsheet. Can't be letting the caster class be casting.

GeneralGrundmann · August 25

o_Primate_o wrote: »

When i read that they will fix Castle Thorn, I had to check online news if pigs gained the ability to fly.

Castle Thorn
Lady Thorn
Fixed: Batswarm's safe area could become visually desynched.

Better late than never.

Radiate77 · August 25

o_Primate_o wrote: »

When i read that they will fix Castle Thorn, I had to check online news if pigs gained the ability to fly.

Castle Thorn
Lady Thorn
Fixed: Batswarm's safe area could become visually desynched.

We’re getting closer to Stuck In Combat…

Wuuffyy · August 25

Radiate77 wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

When i read that they will fix Castle Thorn, I had to check online news if pigs gained the ability to fly.

Castle Thorn
Lady Thorn
Fixed: Batswarm's safe area could become visually desynched.

We’re getting closer to Stuck In Combat…

Stuck-in-combat for the rest of eternity.

Radiate77 · August 25

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

When i read that they will fix Castle Thorn, I had to check online news if pigs gained the ability to fly.

Castle Thorn
Lady Thorn
Fixed: Batswarm's safe area could become visually desynched.

We’re getting closer to Stuck In Combat…

Stuck-in-combat for the rest of eternity.

This is why I don’t go to Southern Elswhere.

You get off your mount to kill a mob and you’re stuck in combat battling it’s ghost for 30 minutes.

GeneralGrundmann · August 25

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

o_Primate_o wrote: »

When i read that they will fix Castle Thorn, I had to check online news if pigs gained the ability to fly.

Castle Thorn
Lady Thorn
Fixed: Batswarm's safe area could become visually desynched.

We’re getting closer to Stuck In Combat…

Stuck-in-combat for the rest of eternity.

"For all time, always"

Faltasë · August 25

Umbracat449 wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

At this point, given the abilities of really good AI in tackling advanced mathematical problems, as we can read in the news, I think zos should get hold of somewhere that has a good model, feed the classes and the parameters in, and get it to build the classes and balance the game.

Absolutely not. AI is commonly filled with what I like to call AI psychosis. You can get misinformation and unclarity using AI often because it's not smart enough to even do complex physics problems, and needs very specific inputs and parameters for outputs.

Source: I used that *** in college, and I had TO CORRECT AI constantly, and 9/10 times I still wouldn't get "correct" results.

This is a terrible suggestion. DO NOT USE AI.

Not to mention, we have seen with Cyrodiil and BGs and PvE in the past that their numbers/spreadsheet methodology only approaches led to things like update 35 and look how dogwash that was, yeah?

Extremely basic AI prompt cracks decades-old maths problem | New Scientist https://share.google/ugZVCEHmh75wvsipm

Why the Legendary Erdős Problems Are Falling to AI | Quanta Magazine https://share.google/6n8FoCaGaACi1zKQC

Think you might be a bit out of date with the abilities of the latest models. And these aren't publicly available models.

Id be giving it a try, myself. If i could organise access. Because the current approach isn't working.

I'm sure newer private models are "smarter" but my main point was that AI loves to hallucinate. Let's not add that margin of error for something they can do so simply?

Faltasë · August 25

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin Any chance we could get the Sorcerer class flourish to count as "Sorcerer damage", or have reverb adjusted to proc off Shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (since Shock is supposed to be Sorcerers thematic element).

Static Reverberation: This passive now triggers off Sorcerer ability damage, rather than any damage. Increased the base proc chance to 20%, up from 5%. Reduced the cooldown to 100ms, down from 300ms.

[Developer Comment]
We're making a targeted approach here to correct some behaviors we've seen since this passive's introduction, where the optimal use of the previous iteration was to stack many non-Sorcerer attacks to trigger it as frequently as possible, introducing counter-intuitive design where the reward to playing your class is to use non-class abilities. To account for this restriction, we're trying to make sure building around it still is relatively as strong as it was before, so the base chances are higher, and can trigger more frequently when a target is near death. We'll keep an eye on this passive (especially in PvP) as this should help correct some of the more problematic use cases we've seen, but it may also introduce more devastation to where Sorcerers can already be quite powerful.

I also want to raise the issue of the adjustment to Reverbs Frequency. We used to have a faster frequency when the mastery was introduced in U50 (it was 0.2s), but it was quickly determined that Sorcerer in it's class kit cannot keep up with such a hyper fast frequency since the class doesn't have any targeted damage over time abilities or status effects within it's class kit and the only multi-hit ability was Bound Armaments that ticks at 0.25-0.3 seconds (or up to 3 times slower than this new 100ms frequency).
While on paper it seems like the frequency increase is a "buff" to this mastery, in practical terms, it does next to nothing because there is nothing in the class kit to make use of this change.

Keeping it at the current 300ms frequency, but allowing it to work with shock damage as well as Sorcerer damage (or just making the class flourish count as Sorcerer damage) would be a good middle ground, so it can be semi-generic (as long as the player is building directly into the classes element/theme), but not so completely generic as to create issues (like it was when stacking multiple DoTs all with their own durations, status effect procs that are also additional DoTs, and chances to proc it).

If needed, reducing the base chance from 20% down to 10% alongside reverting the frequency changes would be another way to balance it, if changing it to allow any Shock damage to count for it alongside Sorcerer damage would be too problematic.

Best we can do is mention sorcerer never again until the refresh in a year and give you all a sweetroll. Better luck next time, champ! /s

Umbracat449 · August 25

Faltasë wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

Faltasë wrote: »

Umbracat449 wrote: »

At this point, given the abilities of really good AI in tackling advanced mathematical problems, as we can read in the news, I think zos should get hold of somewhere that has a good model, feed the classes and the parameters in, and get it to build the classes and balance the game.

Absolutely not. AI is commonly filled with what I like to call AI psychosis. You can get misinformation and unclarity using AI often because it's not smart enough to even do complex physics problems, and needs very specific inputs and parameters for outputs.

Source: I used that *** in college, and I had TO CORRECT AI constantly, and 9/10 times I still wouldn't get "correct" results.

This is a terrible suggestion. DO NOT USE AI.

Not to mention, we have seen with Cyrodiil and BGs and PvE in the past that their numbers/spreadsheet methodology only approaches led to things like update 35 and look how dogwash that was, yeah?

Extremely basic AI prompt cracks decades-old maths problem | New Scientist https://share.google/ugZVCEHmh75wvsipm

Why the Legendary Erdős Problems Are Falling to AI | Quanta Magazine https://share.google/6n8FoCaGaACi1zKQC

Think you might be a bit out of date with the abilities of the latest models. And these aren't publicly available models.

Id be giving it a try, myself. If i could organise access. Because the current approach isn't working.

I'm sure newer private models are "smarter" but my main point was that AI loves to hallucinate. Let's not add that margin of error for something they can do so simply?

They can't tho, as demonstrated by the million posts/threads/buff nerf buff broken ouch.

And I'm not suggesting the ai changes are not scrutinised and checked and tested and thought about. And decided upon finally by zos. I'm saying, there's a lot to this game, getting something that can handle extensive computations to have a go, could well be a smart move.

OsUfi · August 26

That strife/funnel health change sounds like a massive overcomplication to a skill that just needed a value tweak.

If I'm not getting a consistent value, healing or damage, from a skill in PvP or PvE, I'm not using it.

huskandhunger · August 27

@ZOS_Kevin with Werewolf ability costs rising once more, the 30% boost to stamina should be added back in

acanca · August 27

Honestly, the 30% added stamina would be a nice addition to ww cause sustain at the moment is really rough

What i would really like is the cost changes revisited because we told the team that ww would be almost unplayable after the sustain changes when CoE was eventually also changed and we are now at that stage after CoE got changed too.

Panderbander · August 27

huskandhunger wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin with Werewolf ability costs rising once more, the 30% boost to stamina should be added back in

Yes. If we're sticking with the cost increases, the stamina should return WITHOUT adjusting ability scaling. We already lost damage compared to before the rework.

Gupitoos · August 27

Let’s revert the DK sustain changes too if we are doing anything to the WW.

Wuuffyy · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Let’s revert the DK sustain changes too if we are doing anything to the WW.

"They nuked werewolf sustain so returning the 30% stam they already had before the rework should equate to DK having its nothing-nerf undone".

Please, be objective at some point in a conversation.

DK should get their minute amount of lost CoF sustain back when they have their costs re-increased to 5,000 like the good ol' days. At least then, the CoF first/insta-tick wouldn't refund them the amount for another CoF/heal right/fossilize right away.

Edit: hey, I have a cool, idea-

Let's take away the stam return on the healing howl, make the wolf costs completely normal, and make the healing howl for wolf the exact same tooltip as 'Core of Flame' including the burst since we're wanting to buff DK some more JUST so wolf can receive a buff where they don't suffer completely without ShapeShifter's! A "buff" (the stam increase) they already had at that xD!

Gupitoos · August 27

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

Wuuffyy · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

Gupitoos · August 27

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

acanca · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

Fossilize quite literally does not work like any of those at all, none of those things except warden charm lets you line up burst nor did old fossilize. And you can walk out of warden charm.

The closest comparision to fossilize is arcanist stun, its also a delayed stun that happens after 1 second but is not broken like fossilize. I explained why earlier so i dont think i need to repeat the reason why.

I know you know this as well, lets try to be a little objective.

Arunei · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

You and Mamba must be part of the same friend circle or something considering how similarly you're going on about trying to minimize WW being a valid playstyle with "it's not a Class". What kind of reasoning are you doing to think that WW being a viable build somehow means the game would revolve around it? You're sitting here going on about people like Wuuffy fighting against heavyhanded nerfs, at the same time you're clearly upset people are fighting and keep showing how very much you dislike the playstyle.

You and others also ignore the fact that unkillable tanky players with high DPS have existed in PvP for years. You keep acting like WW is the only time this has happened in hopes of that getting it nerfed, that no other Class or build is or ever has been capable of tanking sometimes upwards of eight or nine people while also being able to pick them off.

And your camp is also ignoring that numerous people asked for CoE to get adjusted because we KNEW WW was going to get hit with more nerfs because of it. We were asking for a nerf to Sorc WW in order to prevent WW as a whole from suffering from that particular build. You're ignoring that people, myself included, have suggested that if they don't want to remove the nerfs entirely they could at least test them at lower values first, especially now that the changes to CoE and Static Reverb are coming. And most people I've seen aren't upset by the changes to Sorc and the fact that they impact WW. What they, or at the very least myself, are bothered by is stuff that was a problem on WW has been addressed but the actual WW nerfs haven't been adjusted at all to account for it.

WW lost its 30% Stam regen bonus. WW lost Bleed Damage. WW will lose stat sustain and healing if things go Live. Mag WW will cease to exist if things go Live. And the sad part is the same thing it always has been: People clamor for something to be nerfed because of how well experienced PvPers play it, the thing in question gets nerfed, average or below average people get nerfed while the experienced players tweak some things and carry on trouncing folks. And this leads to people STILL wanting the thing in question to get nerfed even more, and so it goes.

Gupitoos · August 27

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

Fossilize quite literally does not work like any of those at all, none of those things except warden charm lets you line up burst nor did old fossilize. And you can walk out of warden charm.

The closest comparision to fossilize is arcanist stun, its also a delayed stun that happens after 1 second but is not broken like fossilize. I explained why earlier so i dont think i need to repeat the reason why.

I know you know this as well, lets try to be a little objective.

Sure you can move out of the warden aoe charm but it’s harder to do so under consistent pressure or when they’re about to die and you need to maintain dps on them. It’s easier by far to dodge the DK stun (and you can go back to dpsing faster than having to run back in and catch up to the warden) - you even have a noob app telling you when to press dodge which is lame.

I’ll reiterate; game is called Elder Scrolls online not Elder Twilight online. You can’t expect to play WW and be stronger than pure classes or.

acanca · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

Fossilize quite literally does not work like any of those at all, none of those things except warden charm lets you line up burst nor did old fossilize. And you can walk out of warden charm.

The closest comparision to fossilize is arcanist stun, its also a delayed stun that happens after 1 second but is not broken like fossilize. I explained why earlier so i dont think i need to repeat the reason why.

I know you know this as well, lets try to be a little objective.

Sure you can move out of the warden aoe charm but it’s harder to do so under consistent pressure or when they’re about to die and you need to maintain dps on them. It’s easier by far to dodge the DK stun (and you can go back to dpsing faster than having to run back in and catch up to the warden) - you even have a noob app telling you when to press dodge which is lame.

I’ll reiterate; game is called Elder Scrolls online not Elder Twilight online. You can’t expect to play WW and be stronger than pure classes or.

Mate, just because you are a main of a class and you for whatever reason cant or wont play anything else, dont assume that every one is the same.
I have all classes at 50, most with more than 1 race just for optimization purposes, i have all sets that are relevant including trials and ia sets and ive always played what i consider is fun and strong. WW was really fun and pretty strong last patch. I will be sad if it becomes unplayable because i genuinely think its the best rework the devs have done but its no big lose to me. I will keep playing dk, i will keep playing sorc, and i'll try keep making builds that might or might not end up working for other classes.
You yourself are a dk main and that clouds your judgment. All i want is a fun diverse pvp meta. Hell, go check my posts about dk, i am happy with the landslide buff and i want them to buff stagger to make wildfire embers viable as a ranged build with pyre. I want dk strong, i just dont want dk broken. I want all classes strong. Because again, i play everything thats strong and fun.

Also dodging fossilize doesnt do anything, i would explain why and how but i would be repeating myself, you should know by now that if they dodge you just fossilize again.

Radiate77 · August 27

Gupitoos wrote: »

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

While I get where you’re coming from and Werewolf needed to be reigned back while we await more of these reworks, gutting their sustain was really the worst way to go about it.

Anyone who happened to be around during Morrowind, got to experience resource sustain armageddon and the mass exodus of players not willing to put up with how horrible the game felt.

Being forced off of the pedal after not even two exchanges of pressure, outside of running two sustain sets, stuck howling for resources repeatedly just feels bad.

Also want to add; that bit about Elder Twilight Online probably sounded a lot cooler in your head than it read out reading it.

Gupitoos · August 27

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Bro stop crying with your WW biased rhetoric. You’re on every thread asking for everything to be nerfed and WW buffed.

WW will still be strong U51 you will just have to work for it. No more taking on a 4-6 man group and killing them all one by one, which is something nothing in the game right now is able to do.

You’re the one in here asking for buffs to DK. Isn’t it enough that they buffed breath, landslide, Pyrebrand? That measly Core-of-Flame nerf won’t see any real difference in your gameplay next patch. I would say sorcs will be an issue for you (you won’t be able to catch them) but between Core of Flame and Wings, I don’t they’ll kill you either.

Your response to fossilize was ‘just block the whips while fossilized’ on the ‘fossilized bugged’ thread. I can’t imagine a mindset less grounded.

How did they buff dragon fire breath?
My response to Fossilize is that it operates exactly the same as streak spam, binding javelin, warden aoe fear charm and WW aoe fear currently on live (u50).

You’re constantly trying to get them to revert all the WW changes and keep it as broken as it currently is - effectively immortal as even a group of 5-6 people struggles to kill one that knows how to button mash their 1 bar cringe effectively and is quite likely that they all end up dead in the process of fighting one, JUST ONE SORC WEREWOLF.

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

Fossilize quite literally does not work like any of those at all, none of those things except warden charm lets you line up burst nor did old fossilize. And you can walk out of warden charm.

The closest comparision to fossilize is arcanist stun, its also a delayed stun that happens after 1 second but is not broken like fossilize. I explained why earlier so i dont think i need to repeat the reason why.

I know you know this as well, lets try to be a little objective.

Sure you can move out of the warden aoe charm but it’s harder to do so under consistent pressure or when they’re about to die and you need to maintain dps on them. It’s easier by far to dodge the DK stun (and you can go back to dpsing faster than having to run back in and catch up to the warden) - you even have a noob app telling you when to press dodge which is lame.

I’ll reiterate; game is called Elder Scrolls online not Elder Twilight online. You can’t expect to play WW and be stronger than pure classes or.

Mate, just because you are a main of a class and you for whatever reason cant or wont play anything else, dont assume that every one is the same.
I have all classes at 50, most with more than 1 race just for optimization purposes, i have all sets that are relevant including trials and ia sets and ive always played what i consider is fun and strong. WW was really fun and pretty strong last patch. I will be sad if it becomes unplayable because i genuinely think its the best rework the devs have done but its no big lose to me. I will keep playing dk, i will keep playing sorc, and i'll try keep making builds that might or might not end up working for other classes.
You yourself are a dk main and that clouds your judgment. All i want is a fun diverse pvp meta. Hell, go check my posts about dk, i am happy with the landslide buff and i want them to buff stagger to make wildfire embers viable as a ranged build with pyre. I want dk strong, i just dont want dk broken. I want all classes strong. Because again, i play everything thats strong and fun.

Also dodging fossilize doesnt do anything, i would explain why and how but i would be repeating myself, you should know by now that if they dodge you just fossilize again.

I play Nightblade, Templar, Warden and DK.
If they dodge and fossilize again, guess what, the addon will show it yet again and all they have to do is dodge it for a second time.
Most DKs have around 20-24k magicka depending on how they distribute their attributes, so on top of keeping their other stuff up the cost of it will make them run out of magicka which they need in order to keep heart of flame up too. You can’t just spam fossilize on DK vs an experienced player - you will die either from not doing enough damage or running out of magicka and not able to keep your buffs and aoe up.

Gupitoos · August 27

Radiate77 wrote: »

Gupitoos wrote: »

Werewolf was never meant to be stronger than pure classes, its elder scrolls online not elder twilight online.

While I get where you’re coming from and Werewolf needed to be reigned back while we await more of these reworks, gutting their sustain was really the worst way to go about it.

Anyone who happened to be around during Morrowind, got to experience resource sustain armageddon and the mass exodus of players not willing to put up with how horrible the game felt.

Being forced off of the pedal after not even two exchanges of pressure, outside of running two sustain sets, stuck howling for resources repeatedly just feels bad.

Also want to add; that bit about Elder Twilight Online probably sounded a lot cooler in your head than it read out reading it.

Reworked WW in U50 is cancer and it needed to be nerfed. They should make Werewolf its own class if they want it to be as strong as Pure Classes which require a 2 bar playstyle and constant micro management (some more so than others).
1 bar noob playstyle granting you every major buff in game, save for cleanse and godmode thanks to the dumb damage and sustain, should never ever be as strong as pure classes.