Major_Mangle wrote: »

Two team was good for objective modes while 3 team had some interesting moments for deathmatch. But 3 team and objective modes is some of the most awful PvP I´ve played (aside from maybe chaos ball which kinda works). Another problem that once again will occur is the problem of solo vs group queue where group queue suffers tremendously splitting the queue as much as it currently is and will become. I´m not talking about a full comped 4 man premade, but just queuing casually with a friend an evening is borderline impossible without waiting 20-30 min for a game. I´d honestly prefer how BG´s were at release when we could at least pick the mode we wanted to play. With that I can at least avoid the dreadful modes that are objectives.

You don't enjoy just running in circles stealing eachother's flags and relics and then getting stuck doing nothing the whole match? I personally just want to do deathmatch if I'm doing BGs and very much wish they'd bring back specific mode queues.

Maitsukas wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

ceruulean wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

While I haven't tried it yet, on first blush, I'm iffy on the new implementation. I'm not sure if 6v6v6 is going to give a similar experience to 4v4v4, but that's effectively ball-group size.

Speaking of ball-groups, increasing the group size of 3-team BGs also forces the new group-size detriments of Battle Spirit onto players.

I think a lot of this has been weirdly overthought. From what I can tell, the playerbase overwhelmingly dislikes the 4v4 mode, and 4v4v4 is what loads of players have been pining for (and enjoying a lot when they come up some weeks). So why not just replace 4v4 with 4v4v4?

Yet 4v4 has cultivated a much larger playerbase than 4v4v4, as seen by the shift from 30 minute queues to -5 minute ones.

Battlegrounds were dead before the rework.

I agree, my que times into 4v4 were generally not as long as they used to be for 4v4v4, the only reason the 4v4v4s were popular was because they were events that gave more rewards and people missed them since they haven't been around for a while. I fear the same thing will slowly happen again, but at least we have the option now for 4v4 and 4v4v4 being two different ques.

They did a ton to incentivize playing BGs with the switch to 4v4. Leaderboards, new rewards system, and eventually veterancy. Can't really treat them as a 1:1 comp since a lot changed at the same time. General consensus I've seen from forums and my pvp discords is people prefer 3 team.

3-teams is fun for casuals but it's uncompetitive and not fun to be the person burning the most tri-pots only to lose to some 3rd party team that ran around flags or camped the Chaosball in some crevice and arc beamed anyone who tried to enter.

I think there should be a deathmatch only queue as well, but that's a different conversation. Objective game modes are unfun to me regardless of how many teams or people there are.

The last time that happened, it pulled in players from the random queue option as well, so there were barely any non-DM BG matches being made.

Because that's what most people want to play. I think there should be an option to play what you want to play instead of horrid capture the flag modes that are just tanks and werewolves sitting on flags in an unengaging manner.

We haven't been able to get any games going on PTS but most of us are predicting that 18-player lobbies will result in Bombers vs Tanks. 12-player lobbies would be better imo.

Aren't there too many Battleground rules?
Casual 4v4v4 and serious competitive 4v4 should be enough.

2-team sucks. As soon as one team gains momentum, it stays. The winning side is often decided very early. So you're either pug stomping or waiting for the end of an objective that goes on way too long.

6v6v6 will offer a different experience from 4v4v4, it will be a zerg fest and require different types of builds similarly to 8v8. We already have a mode for bombing, 6v6v6 will be exactly the same, there’s no need to add it to the same queue.

Instead can we have the old 4v4v4 back as a separate queue? It’s so much better than having only 2 teams, everyone gets to play unlike in 2 teams modes that are always completely one-sided and neither of the teams gets to play. In 3 teams a weaker team can at least steal kills or kill isolated players, there’s at least still something that can be done.

Some players including myself don’t want to engage with 2 teams modes, and 6v6v6 is completely different from 4v4v4.
The main problem with 4v4v4 used to be it’s modes, not the number of teams or players. Make it deathmatch only and it will certainly has it’s playerbase.

I think 3-team BG's seem a bit more resilient compared to a single team obliviating to vapor state in 4v4, when just 1-2 veteran players on one team turns the exciting battle into a spawn camp kill-zone. I’m a vet. PvP’er myself but don’t enjoy that gameplay. I play the game for fun and build testing, not ego boosting. I actually want to help new players adapt to the PvP scene, but they don’t stand a chance when the 4v4 team balance is skewed just a little bit. And vet. players often get frustrated (myself included, I’m no saint) when you’re matched with 3 newbies while standing across from 2-4x other vet players on the other team waiting for the slaughter bell to ring.
However, I’m NOT saying that 4v4’s should seize to exist! I’m trying to say that 4v4v4 is a cool addition and helps to shave off the balance offset spikes when veteran players are pooled on one side.

One might argue that newbies should just join 8v8 instead, but honestly; these are often just zerg storms with players pooling up to survive and get a kill score. These leave little room for player improvement feedback as they’re usually getting hit with 6x simultaneous attacks and dying while their armor setup might be just fine to begin with. This incentivizes new players to jump in the team mob pool-up tactic instead of striving to go it alone and improve skills.

To me, 4v4v4 seems like the best compromise between player skill balancing and zerg storm prevention.

I also very much enjoy the renascence feeling from playing the original BG maps again. This is REALLY cool and speaks to the fact that ESO has pedigree.

That’s my 2 cents.

And regardless I don’t see how anyone can protect 4v4 when all it is is one team stomping the other in every single match, neither having an opportunity to play.

NovelliESO wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

4v4v4 is the best mode, glad that it's back in DM.

+ Fast queue times
+ Large enough teams for fights to feel epic, but without the snowballing effect in 8v8 which often results in the weaker team getting spawn camped, which is fun for no one

The que times will not be any better than they were when 4v4v4 eventually died down to 30 minute ques. They are only fast now bc it's an event, DM guaranteed, and not the same ruleset people have been playing the last few years.

It’s still true that 4v4v4 is simply better than 4v4 and that queue times have nothing to do with 3 teams. I’m sure if 4v4v4 were to become default again and 4v4 was added as an event it wouldn’t be nearly as popular.
Even when bg pop was low there were still regulars as there were players who jumped in from time to time.
It’s a fact that 2 teams bg is a massive failure. We got 3 teams back and suddenly there’s action and competition in matches again.
Replacing 4v4 with old 4v4v4 has no disadvantages, it doesn’t get any worse than this. If it’s dm ppl want then give them dm, mb add other modes as a separate queue. If it doesn’t bring many players at least let those who do play have fun.

There is literally zero competition in my matches. 4v4v4 is simply better based on what? There is literally zero metric you provided. 4v4v4 is fine but the que times will be worse than 4v4 ever was. I can get a 4v4 que within 5 minutes 95% of the time, the last few months 4v4v4 was around I would have ques that went over an hour.

I’m sure it’s obvious but queue times reflect a lot more than just popularity of bg modes, sate of pvp and balance, overall state of the game, pvp and overall population, etc. A lot of things back then and right now are drastically different, it’s not correct to compare queue times in vacuum.
If you queue in the middle of the night during a week you will indeed have over an hour long queue. I never had queues that long during the day. Also I play solo queue, group queue is unarguably a lot less popular, so could be queue times for groups were indeed that long at some point. Could be for that same reason that you don’t have competition while queuing as a group against solo players because group queue is selected by default and it turns out not all players check/know there’s a solo queue.

I would que solo and get ques over an hour long, I have even done so on stream. 4v4v4 is going to be as slow as it was when it ended, the same 20-30 people are going to play after a few months of people getting bored of it, and they won't always be on at the same times, and ques will be extremely slow, you could even argue they will be slower since the population is lower. I have zero issue with 4v4v4, I play BGs regardless, but the reality is the que times were much slower for 4v4v4 than they were for 4v4.

They've done a lot more to incentivize BGs since getting rid of 4v4v4. I think it'll be much better now.

NovelliESO wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

4v4v4 is the best mode, glad that it's back in DM.

+ Fast queue times
+ Large enough teams for fights to feel epic, but without the snowballing effect in 8v8 which often results in the weaker team getting spawn camped, which is fun for no one

The que times will not be any better than they were when 4v4v4 eventually died down to 30 minute ques. They are only fast now bc it's an event, DM guaranteed, and not the same ruleset people have been playing the last few years.

It’s still true that 4v4v4 is simply better than 4v4 and that queue times have nothing to do with 3 teams. I’m sure if 4v4v4 were to become default again and 4v4 was added as an event it wouldn’t be nearly as popular.
Even when bg pop was low there were still regulars as there were players who jumped in from time to time.
It’s a fact that 2 teams bg is a massive failure. We got 3 teams back and suddenly there’s action and competition in matches again.
Replacing 4v4 with old 4v4v4 has no disadvantages, it doesn’t get any worse than this. If it’s dm ppl want then give them dm, mb add other modes as a separate queue. If it doesn’t bring many players at least let those who do play have fun.

There is literally zero competition in my matches. 4v4v4 is simply better based on what? There is literally zero metric you provided. 4v4v4 is fine but the que times will be worse than 4v4 ever was. I can get a 4v4 que within 5 minutes 95% of the time, the last few months 4v4v4 was around I would have ques that went over an hour.

I’m sure it’s obvious but queue times reflect a lot more than just popularity of bg modes, sate of pvp and balance, overall state of the game, pvp and overall population, etc. A lot of things back then and right now are drastically different, it’s not correct to compare queue times in vacuum.
If you queue in the middle of the night during a week you will indeed have over an hour long queue. I never had queues that long during the day. Also I play solo queue, group queue is unarguably a lot less popular, so could be queue times for groups were indeed that long at some point. Could be for that same reason that you don’t have competition while queuing as a group against solo players because group queue is selected by default and it turns out not all players check/know there’s a solo queue.

I would que solo and get ques over an hour long, I have even done so on stream. 4v4v4 is going to be as slow as it was when it ended, the same 20-30 people are going to play after a few months of people getting bored of it, and they won't always be on at the same times, and ques will be extremely slow, you could even argue they will be slower since the population is lower. I have zero issue with 4v4v4, I play BGs regardless, but the reality is the que times were much slower for 4v4v4 than they were for 4v4.

They've done a lot more to incentivize BGs since getting rid of 4v4v4. I think it'll be much better now.

such as?

You get 25 transmutes instead of a measly 10 in the past. There's also a unique style page earned for every week you are top 500 in the leaderboards. I highly doubt that would be enough to make people queue though. 8v8 is part of the casual queue, not the ranked queue for the style page, so either people are queuing for 8v8 because they want geodes or they genuinely enjoy playing 8v8.

The headache of 3-teams was not appealing in the past, and still wouldn't appeal to me now.

NovelliESO wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

NovelliESO wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

4v4v4 is the best mode, glad that it's back in DM.

+ Fast queue times
+ Large enough teams for fights to feel epic, but without the snowballing effect in 8v8 which often results in the weaker team getting spawn camped, which is fun for no one

The que times will not be any better than they were when 4v4v4 eventually died down to 30 minute ques. They are only fast now bc it's an event, DM guaranteed, and not the same ruleset people have been playing the last few years.

It’s still true that 4v4v4 is simply better than 4v4 and that queue times have nothing to do with 3 teams. I’m sure if 4v4v4 were to become default again and 4v4 was added as an event it wouldn’t be nearly as popular.
Even when bg pop was low there were still regulars as there were players who jumped in from time to time.
It’s a fact that 2 teams bg is a massive failure. We got 3 teams back and suddenly there’s action and competition in matches again.
Replacing 4v4 with old 4v4v4 has no disadvantages, it doesn’t get any worse than this. If it’s dm ppl want then give them dm, mb add other modes as a separate queue. If it doesn’t bring many players at least let those who do play have fun.

There is literally zero competition in my matches. 4v4v4 is simply better based on what? There is literally zero metric you provided. 4v4v4 is fine but the que times will be worse than 4v4 ever was. I can get a 4v4 que within 5 minutes 95% of the time, the last few months 4v4v4 was around I would have ques that went over an hour.

I’m sure it’s obvious but queue times reflect a lot more than just popularity of bg modes, sate of pvp and balance, overall state of the game, pvp and overall population, etc. A lot of things back then and right now are drastically different, it’s not correct to compare queue times in vacuum.
If you queue in the middle of the night during a week you will indeed have over an hour long queue. I never had queues that long during the day. Also I play solo queue, group queue is unarguably a lot less popular, so could be queue times for groups were indeed that long at some point. Could be for that same reason that you don’t have competition while queuing as a group against solo players because group queue is selected by default and it turns out not all players check/know there’s a solo queue.

I would que solo and get ques over an hour long, I have even done so on stream. 4v4v4 is going to be as slow as it was when it ended, the same 20-30 people are going to play after a few months of people getting bored of it, and they won't always be on at the same times, and ques will be extremely slow, you could even argue they will be slower since the population is lower. I have zero issue with 4v4v4, I play BGs regardless, but the reality is the que times were much slower for 4v4v4 than they were for 4v4.

The key part here is past tense. It won’t be as long now. The most important part in my posts, that you ignored as it’s a fact, that in 4v4v4 players actually get to play unlike 4v4. Bg simply doesn’t function anymore. I see a lot of ppl complaining about it and not a single one who enjoys it. Because there’s nothing to enjoy obv, all you do is wait for a match to end regardless if your team is winning or losing.

gariondavey wrote: »

Deathmatch only

Agree. Separate out that mode so those that want to play objectives can exclude that toxic (in some folks opinions) group out.