Arunei wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

rsonally offending by the act of bagging/emoting/sheathing, etc. [/qu

Arunei wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why.

Do you know the train enthusiasts, that just watch, follow and record trains?

https://youtube.com/shorts/9UvAaQwl6Kw?is=N1tEVeVpUDThOP5Z

Can you understand them? I cant understand them. But i can understand their enthusiasm. I am a tbag enthusiast.

This is such a non-answer it wouldn't have changed a thing if it weren't posted. You can't explain why you want to be toxic because that's the simple answer. Doing something repeatedly despite people having told you to stop enough times that you've gotten actioned as you have is toxic/ Like that's end of story, no argument. It is genuine toxic behavior to repeatedly ignore others asking you to stop doing something. You know what would have prevented you from getting actioned? Stopping when you were asked to. You're not going to get a warning, suspension, or ban if you simply go your own way when told to stop.

Because t-bagging in and of itself is NOT a bannable offense. It becomes one when people ask someone to stop and that person doesn't have the maturity to simply accept that and move on with their day. And no, being Offline Mode isn't a viable excuse to hide behind, because that in itself can be used as a shield to try and prevent someone from asking you to stop, and thus try to get around the CoC. If you want to be Offline Mode to prevent hate whispers, that's perfectly fine. Put yourself Online while t-bagging, put yourself Offline again once you've done and moved on.

Again, no one is getting banned outright for t-bagging. You need to keep doing it even after being asked to stop, and even then you don't get banned. You get warnings, you get suspensions. Because essentially when you keep doing something a person has asked you to stop doing, ZOS considers that harassment. And THAT'S why people get warnings and bans. Not because of the t-bagging in and of itself but because of an action that gets escalated to harassment. Other things this also happens with include:

*Stalking: Following a person, even if they port to another Zone or to an open Player House,
*Emotes: Repeated use of things like Mudballs or the one Crow emote idr the name of,
*Targeted killing of specific players: Repeatedly targeting only one player in Cyro (and maybe IC?), afaik this doesn't apply in BGs since it's small-scale PvP, but in open-world PvP repeatedly hunting down and killing a specific player,
*Insults: Even if it doesn't include crude language, threats, slurs, or the like, repeatedly insulting a person or people can count

These are examples of things that count as harassment as well. T-bagging in and of itself isn't harassment initially. It becomes harassment if you keep doing it even after being asked to stop, same as the things above.

Teabagging shouldn't be included in that list of things neither should emoting. I understand stalking, purposefully and egregiously hunting down one player like stream sniping makes sense. But not bagging and emoting. I am aiming to have that removed from the CoC as it does the opposite of what the CoC's goal is. You should not be banned for bagging or emoting whether its one time or one hundred times over the course and passage of time and normal play

And why shouldn't they be included? Why should you be allowed to continue to do behavior a person has asked you directly to stop doing? And please don't say "it's childish to be upset over it", because genuinely wanting to t-bag THAT badly as to not want a punishment for doing it when asked to stop is the childish thing. We are all adults playing this game, we should all be able to just accept when someone tells us no and move on rather than acting like children having candy taken from them.

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Is there an actual statement from zos saying the act of crouching up and down alone is not a bannable offense on its own.

Asking for a friend

Also surprised this thread is still up ngl

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. We wanted to address the recent conversations around teabagging and proper etiquette around the action in-game. In the past, we have noted that context matters when teabagging in-game and when responding to that action. Teabagging in-game is generally not a direct violation of ToS. However, when an impacted player asks you to stop and you refuse, that is when we have crossed into targeted harassment territory. If this happens and the impacted player reports the incident with video proof, then an investigation will open for ToS violations for targeted harassment. This can lead to possible suspension or permanent ban. So please take requests to stop seriously.

For those reporting a potential violation, please make sure you provide a video that makes it clear that you asked the user who teabagged you in-game to please stop the action and continued action after the ask.

We hope this clears things up for everyone, especially as we are going into Whitestrake's Mayhem. Again, we understand why some players choose to engage in teabagging. As someone in this thread put it, we survived the 2000's Halo lobbies also. But we want to respect anyone's wishes who do not want to be subject to the in-game action of teabagging.

Additional update based on a question asking about users who are in offline mode or placed an impacted player on an ignore list: If a user is in offline mode or placed you on an ignore list, you should make an effort to post the request in a general channel. As long as the attempt of contact is made and seen in your video account, that will be factored in during the investigation.

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

rsonally offending by the act of bagging/emoting/sheathing, etc. [/qu

Arunei wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why.

Do you know the train enthusiasts, that just watch, follow and record trains?

https://youtube.com/shorts/9UvAaQwl6Kw?is=N1tEVeVpUDThOP5Z

Can you understand them? I cant understand them. But i can understand their enthusiasm. I am a tbag enthusiast.

This is such a non-answer it wouldn't have changed a thing if it weren't posted. You can't explain why you want to be toxic because that's the simple answer. Doing something repeatedly despite people having told you to stop enough times that you've gotten actioned as you have is toxic/ Like that's end of story, no argument. It is genuine toxic behavior to repeatedly ignore others asking you to stop doing something. You know what would have prevented you from getting actioned? Stopping when you were asked to. You're not going to get a warning, suspension, or ban if you simply go your own way when told to stop.

Because t-bagging in and of itself is NOT a bannable offense. It becomes one when people ask someone to stop and that person doesn't have the maturity to simply accept that and move on with their day. And no, being Offline Mode isn't a viable excuse to hide behind, because that in itself can be used as a shield to try and prevent someone from asking you to stop, and thus try to get around the CoC. If you want to be Offline Mode to prevent hate whispers, that's perfectly fine. Put yourself Online while t-bagging, put yourself Offline again once you've done and moved on.

Again, no one is getting banned outright for t-bagging. You need to keep doing it even after being asked to stop, and even then you don't get banned. You get warnings, you get suspensions. Because essentially when you keep doing something a person has asked you to stop doing, ZOS considers that harassment. And THAT'S why people get warnings and bans. Not because of the t-bagging in and of itself but because of an action that gets escalated to harassment. Other things this also happens with include:

*Stalking: Following a person, even if they port to another Zone or to an open Player House,
*Emotes: Repeated use of things like Mudballs or the one Crow emote idr the name of,
*Targeted killing of specific players: Repeatedly targeting only one player in Cyro (and maybe IC?), afaik this doesn't apply in BGs since it's small-scale PvP, but in open-world PvP repeatedly hunting down and killing a specific player,
*Insults: Even if it doesn't include crude language, threats, slurs, or the like, repeatedly insulting a person or people can count

These are examples of things that count as harassment as well. T-bagging in and of itself isn't harassment initially. It becomes harassment if you keep doing it even after being asked to stop, same as the things above.

Teabagging shouldn't be included in that list of things neither should emoting. I understand stalking, purposefully and egregiously hunting down one player like stream sniping makes sense. But not bagging and emoting. I am aiming to have that removed from the CoC as it does the opposite of what the CoC's goal is. You should not be banned for bagging or emoting whether its one time or one hundred times over the course and passage of time and normal play

And why shouldn't they be included? Why should you be allowed to continue to do behavior a person has asked you directly to stop doing? And please don't say "it's childish to be upset over it", because genuinely wanting to t-bag THAT badly as to not want a punishment for doing it when asked to stop is the childish thing. We are all adults playing this game, we should all be able to just accept when someone tells us no and move on rather than acting like children having candy taken from them.

because it enables people to weaponize the rule with the goal to hurt people in real
life rather than to right a wrong. For example, most people who report it usually say or do things far more toxic but not against CoC per se or they bag others themselves

spartaxoxo wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

rsonally offending by the act of bagging/emoting/sheathing, etc. [/qu

Arunei wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't understand why.

Do you know the train enthusiasts, that just watch, follow and record trains?

https://youtube.com/shorts/9UvAaQwl6Kw?is=N1tEVeVpUDThOP5Z

Can you understand them? I cant understand them. But i can understand their enthusiasm. I am a tbag enthusiast.

This is such a non-answer it wouldn't have changed a thing if it weren't posted. You can't explain why you want to be toxic because that's the simple answer. Doing something repeatedly despite people having told you to stop enough times that you've gotten actioned as you have is toxic/ Like that's end of story, no argument. It is genuine toxic behavior to repeatedly ignore others asking you to stop doing something. You know what would have prevented you from getting actioned? Stopping when you were asked to. You're not going to get a warning, suspension, or ban if you simply go your own way when told to stop.

Because t-bagging in and of itself is NOT a bannable offense. It becomes one when people ask someone to stop and that person doesn't have the maturity to simply accept that and move on with their day. And no, being Offline Mode isn't a viable excuse to hide behind, because that in itself can be used as a shield to try and prevent someone from asking you to stop, and thus try to get around the CoC. If you want to be Offline Mode to prevent hate whispers, that's perfectly fine. Put yourself Online while t-bagging, put yourself Offline again once you've done and moved on.

Again, no one is getting banned outright for t-bagging. You need to keep doing it even after being asked to stop, and even then you don't get banned. You get warnings, you get suspensions. Because essentially when you keep doing something a person has asked you to stop doing, ZOS considers that harassment. And THAT'S why people get warnings and bans. Not because of the t-bagging in and of itself but because of an action that gets escalated to harassment. Other things this also happens with include:

*Stalking: Following a person, even if they port to another Zone or to an open Player House,
*Emotes: Repeated use of things like Mudballs or the one Crow emote idr the name of,
*Targeted killing of specific players: Repeatedly targeting only one player in Cyro (and maybe IC?), afaik this doesn't apply in BGs since it's small-scale PvP, but in open-world PvP repeatedly hunting down and killing a specific player,
*Insults: Even if it doesn't include crude language, threats, slurs, or the like, repeatedly insulting a person or people can count

These are examples of things that count as harassment as well. T-bagging in and of itself isn't harassment initially. It becomes harassment if you keep doing it even after being asked to stop, same as the things above.

Teabagging shouldn't be included in that list of things neither should emoting. I understand stalking, purposefully and egregiously hunting down one player like stream sniping makes sense. But not bagging and emoting. I am aiming to have that removed from the CoC as it does the opposite of what the CoC's goal is. You should not be banned for bagging or emoting whether its one time or one hundred times over the course and passage of time and normal play

And why shouldn't they be included? Why should you be allowed to continue to do behavior a person has asked you directly to stop doing? And please don't say "it's childish to be upset over it", because genuinely wanting to t-bag THAT badly as to not want a punishment for doing it when asked to stop is the childish thing. We are all adults playing this game, we should all be able to just accept when someone tells us no and move on rather than acting like children having candy taken from them.

because it enables people to weaponize the rule with the goal to hurt people in real
life rather than to right a wrong. For example, most people who report it usually say or do things far more toxic but not against CoC per se or they bag others themselves

You're responsible for the consequences of your own actions. If you think they did something reportable, then the proper response is to report them not harass them. If what they did is not reportable, then you don't get to break tos because you're mad about it. I wouldn't support a permanent ban on a first offense but someone else doing something wrong doesn't give you a free pass to break the rules.

I'm using the royal you here, not saying you or anyone else in this thread have done any wrong in particular.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

The proponents of tbagging bring all sorts of arguments, but no one actulally answered what makes this act fun for them. What kind of strong feelings does it evoke in them so that they would accept inconvenineces and penalties?

XVestigeXx wrote: »

its not about whether bagging is fun or not, its about the weaponization of reporting and banning people because of it. This is like trying to police people who flipped you off on the way to work by revoking their license. People are crafty and will do anything to be toxic and spiteful and abuse any system to hurt others. Bagging in a video game is harmless. Banning people for it is a lot of harm. It sounds good on paper, but like many things turns out very, very badly in real world application

ESO_player123 wrote: »

The proponents of tbagging bring all sorts of arguments, but no one actulally answered what makes this act fun for them. What kind of strong feelings does it evoke in them so that they would accept inconvenineces and penalties?

Elvenheart wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

It’s fascinating how people are talking about the sensitivity of others for reporting people and being “triggered”; and yet, this is a thread started because someone got in their feelings over someone else getting banned because they *checks notes* broke the rules ZOS set in their video game and incurred consequences.

Seriously, why even teabag people multiple times after they ask/tell you to stop? Does it really enhance the game that much for people?

Except the damage incurred from someone teabagging you is nothing while the damage incurred by being banned is multiple thousands of hours and dollars all deleted. Please don't try and equate those two things because its not comparable and this thread was made in hopes to spark change in Zos regarding the issue.

It’s obviously not nothing to the people who don’t like it and ask others to stop doing it. This continued assertion completely discounts the opinions of anyone whose view on this is different from yours.

In your opinion, someone losing their account over what someone else considers toxic behavior is worse than a player having to endure being t-bagged if they want to play. From another person’s point of view, having to endure the toxic behavior is worse. Both points of view are valid. However, the difference is that the player who is doing the t-bagging has the power to stop, to simply just choose to not do it, especially once they know someone else doesn’t like it, while the only thing the player who is being t-bagged can do after they ask someone not to do it is to either ignore it no matter how it makes them feel, stop playing, or report the other player and hope for a favorable outcome that resolves the issue.

Someone losing their account permanently no matter the reason is a terrible, awful thing. But a player having to endure actions like t-bagging after they have made it clear those actions are not welcome for any reason would be a terrible, awful thing too, and while the one who gets t-bagged wouldn’t lose their account, if their only recourse was to either have to live with it or stop playing that’s just as bad.

XVestigeXx wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

You did not answer my question. What makes you WANT/NEED to do it? What are you getting out of it?

Have you ever flipped someone off or cussed at someone while driving? What made you want or need to do it? Should you have your license taken away for it?

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

It’s fascinating how people are talking about the sensitivity of others for reporting people and being “triggered”; and yet, this is a thread started because someone got in their feelings over someone else getting banned because they *checks notes* broke the rules ZOS set in their video game and incurred consequences.

Seriously, why even teabag people multiple times after they ask/tell you to stop? Does it really enhance the game that much for people?

Except the damage incurred from someone teabagging you is nothing while the damage incurred by being banned is multiple thousands of hours and dollars all deleted. Please don't try and equate those two things because its not comparable and this thread was made in hopes to spark change in Zos regarding the issue.

It’s obviously not nothing to the people who don’t like it and ask others to stop doing it. This continued assertion completely discounts the opinions of anyone whose view on this is different from yours.

In your opinion, someone losing their account over what someone else considers toxic behavior is worse than a player having to endure being t-bagged if they want to play. From another person’s point of view, having to endure the toxic behavior is worse. Both points of view are valid. However, the difference is that the player who is doing the t-bagging has the power to stop, to simply just choose to not do it, especially once they know someone else doesn’t like it, while the only thing the player who is being t-bagged can do after they ask someone not to do it is to either ignore it no matter how it makes them feel, stop playing, or report the other player and hope for a favorable outcome that resolves the issue.

Someone losing their account permanently no matter the reason is a terrible, awful thing. But a player having to endure actions like t-bagging after they have made it clear those actions are not welcome for any reason would be a terrible, awful thing too, and while the one who gets t-bagged wouldn’t lose their account, if their only recourse was to either have to live with it or stop playing that’s just as bad.

This is a bad argument because it doesn't solve the issue and destroys accounts along with it. Theres nothing to stop a player from being bagged all week long by different players unless they wanna document every instance and open a separate report for each and doing all those steps for each person. So a person is going to be bagged whether they like it or not in pvp and the rule will not change it. I even know of a guild that is targeting a player that got another player banned for bagging. So now that person is in the sights of about 500 people in pvp. That stuff happens constantly.

The rule will only diminish ESO's player count further. As I said in another post, wanting to report people and have them banned is like reporting someone flipping you off on the road and wanting to get their license removed and expecting the government to enforce it. Surely you see the problems with this? Not to mention the people that will intentionally bait out bags just so they can report it to zos and get that person banned? Try this at any police station and they will tell you to grow up. Thats what we all need to do, is to grow up and not let it bother us, the same as a football team not letting the victory dances of another team bother us or someone being rude to us, or flipping us off. I'm sure none of us want those things to happen to us, and there is not many other options to avoid those things besides locking ourselves in a basement or something, but sometimes you gotta just grow up and not let things that others do bother you.

Its ludicrous to expect the government to police people flipping you off on the road and taking their license away, and its ludicrous to have Zos ban people who crouch up and down on your body in a video game. There just simply isn't any argument that can refute this

ESO_player123 wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

It’s fascinating how people are talking about the sensitivity of others for reporting people and being “triggered”; and yet, this is a thread started because someone got in their feelings over someone else getting banned because they *checks notes* broke the rules ZOS set in their video game and incurred consequences.

Seriously, why even teabag people multiple times after they ask/tell you to stop? Does it really enhance the game that much for people?

Except the damage incurred from someone teabagging you is nothing while the damage incurred by being banned is multiple thousands of hours and dollars all deleted. Please don't try and equate those two things because its not comparable and this thread was made in hopes to spark change in Zos regarding the issue.

It’s obviously not nothing to the people who don’t like it and ask others to stop doing it. This continued assertion completely discounts the opinions of anyone whose view on this is different from yours.

In your opinion, someone losing their account over what someone else considers toxic behavior is worse than a player having to endure being t-bagged if they want to play. From another person’s point of view, having to endure the toxic behavior is worse. Both points of view are valid. However, the difference is that the player who is doing the t-bagging has the power to stop, to simply just choose to not do it, especially once they know someone else doesn’t like it, while the only thing the player who is being t-bagged can do after they ask someone not to do it is to either ignore it no matter how it makes them feel, stop playing, or report the other player and hope for a favorable outcome that resolves the issue.

Someone losing their account permanently no matter the reason is a terrible, awful thing. But a player having to endure actions like t-bagging after they have made it clear those actions are not welcome for any reason would be a terrible, awful thing too, and while the one who gets t-bagged wouldn’t lose their account, if their only recourse was to either have to live with it or stop playing that’s just as bad.

This is a bad argument because it doesn't solve the issue and destroys accounts along with it. Theres nothing to stop a player from being bagged all week long by different players unless they wanna document every instance and open a separate report for each and doing all those steps for each person. So a person is going to be bagged whether they like it or not in pvp and the rule will not change it. I even know of a guild that is targeting a player that got another player banned for bagging. So now that person is in the sights of about 500 people in pvp. That stuff happens constantly.

The rule will only diminish ESO's player count further. As I said in another post, wanting to report people and have them banned is like reporting someone flipping you off on the road and wanting to get their license removed and expecting the government to enforce it. Surely you see the problems with this? Not to mention the people that will intentionally bait out bags just so they can report it to zos and get that person banned? Try this at any police station and they will tell you to grow up. Thats what we all need to do, is to grow up and not let it bother us, the same as a football team not letting the victory dances of another team bother us or someone being rude to us, or flipping us off. I'm sure none of us want those things to happen to us, and there is not many other options to avoid those things besides locking ourselves in a basement or something, but sometimes you gotta just grow up and not let things that others do bother you.

Its ludicrous to expect the government to police people flipping you off on the road and taking their license away, and its ludicrous to have Zos ban people who crouch up and down on your body in a video game. There just simply isn't any argument that can refute this

There are two big differences between your RL example and tbagging in game.
1. In game people have anonymity which often brings out the worst behaviour in people and allows them do something that they would probably not do/say in RL.
2. In RL a person being flipped off has an opportunity to respond (whether they should or would that response be proprtional to the offence is another question) which the "bagee" (see, I now using the newly minted word) lacks.

SilverBride wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

You completely missed the point of the analogy or you intentionally dodged it. Then modified it. Road rage is entirely different and more akin to stalking or egregiously hunting down one player like stream sniping for example. you can't combine that with bagging/emoting in order to make it sound or appear worse than it is.

The answer to your question is the answer to my question. So how about you answer my question then I'll answer any question you have

What do you get out of cussing/flipping someone off? And should you get your license taken away for it?

I don't. I am a very considerate driver. When traffic is heavy I stay back and let cars out of parking lots and onto the road. A lot of drivers are considerate like that here. I never see drivers flip others off or yell or make a scene.

XVestigeXx wrote: »

So you've never cussed at anyone ever? Be honest now, and it doesn't have to be just when driving in order to get out of the question. I would find it very hard to accept that you've never done or said anything to anyone ever along the lines of cussing or flipping someone off. Tell the truth....

SilverBride wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

So you've never cussed at anyone ever? Be honest now, and it doesn't have to be just when driving in order to get out of the question. I would find it very hard to accept that you've never done or said anything to anyone ever along the lines of cussing or flipping someone off. Tell the truth....

I don't remember the last time I was angry enough to snap at someone, let alone curse at them. It's not in my nature.

But being angry and snapping at someone that did a person wrong is NOT the same thing as doing an act many find offensive to other players they don't even know in a video game.

WHAT do players get out of tbagging? WHY is it so important to do that to someone the player doesn't even know? To a player who has done nothing wrong to the other player, but merely was defeated in PvP?

They must be getting something from it. Otherwise why do it?

XVestigeXx wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

The proponents of tbagging bring all sorts of arguments, but no one actulally answered what makes this act fun for them. What kind of strong feelings does it evoke in them so that they would accept inconvenineces and penalties?

its not about whether bagging is fun or not, its about the weaponization of reporting and banning people because of it. This is like trying to police people who flipped you off on the way to work by revoking their license. People are crafty and will do anything to be toxic and spiteful and abuse any system to hurt others. Bagging in a video game is harmless. Banning people for it is a lot of harm. It sounds good on paper, but like many things turns out very, very badly in real world application

You did not answer my question. What makes you WANT/NEED to do it? What are you getting out of it?

Have you ever flipped someone off or cussed at someone while driving? What made you want or need to do it? What did you get out of it? Should you have your license taken away for it?