It's not an issue because it's a system designed for pure classes. That's why they're called Class Masteries because they're an investment INTO your original class. With Subclassing you're investing into one skill line per class, thus you're not a master over that class.

The devs designed them this way because they wanted to lessen the gap between subclassed builds and pure classes as various builds were outperforming pure classes far and wide. There's nothing to be addressed aside from future balancing.

No one should be able to run 3 skill lines of one kind. Period. Class Mastery Passives have to be there because it's the only way to stop more people from leaving the game since U46 absolutely destroyed our characters and playstyles we have had for a decade. Subclassing is a complete and utter disaster. Its so bad they literally have to change and alter every skill line and Class/character over the course of YEARS because its that broken. Instead of just admitting what a disaster and player exodus they have, are still causing and will continue to cause because they can no longer deliver refreshes on any kind of sane timetable. It is faster to remove it in a single patch, just like it was put in and adjust the Dragonknight to match the six other Classes. Then balance them with the Class Passives in a single update. Instead of 2030 and beyond.

Because ZOS doesn't understand that what made subclassing popular was that fact that it allowed flexibility -- something that class masteries cannot replicate. Let's be honest, on most of the bottom classes (esp. in PvP) most of the skills are either unslottable or they do too little to justify slotting them.

Some classes don't even have a reliable way to get major prophecy on both bars using 1 slottable skill, missing proper access to buffs on demand, etc.

Subclassing gives us the option to remove a skill line and fix those issues, since ZOS isn't interested in actually doing so for every class or buffing the generic sources of these buffs. Maybe they will in some future that may never come, but no one cares about a maybe -- we care about the now and what is definite.

What that means is that the mastery system actually works against the players on the classes with lacking skill lines and ultimately offers nothing.

Templar is one of the better examples in PvP. You can get masteries, but they offer little to nothing that templar didn't already have enough of, and in an actual combat situation make little difference except when running in a group. Certainly not as much difference as subclassing.

Templar healer: actually lacks enough healing -- crazy statement, but reality. Compared to warden, templar healer is inferior in every way and has been for a long time. It doesn't help that restoration staff is a lackluster skill line outside of its ult, and that beyond sticky HoT stacking none of the skills are used by the majority of players wielding one. If it didn't give increased magicka back, I wonder how many would even slot it?

There is no universe where I would take two masteries over warden subclass, which gives me more skills to slot, minor toughness, and more major mending uptime in addition to Tree Ult (which I consider better than templar's healing ult). Oh and there's Lotus Blossom to alleviate the crit issue templars have

Subclassing alleviates the issue the class has with skills that simply aren't slottable and missing buffs. If you want to currently use the masteries -- which are the excuse for not buffing up skill lines immediately on classes that are behind in either PvP or PvE -- then you have to give that up and actually lose out more in reality than you could potentailly gain.

Now ZOS is also nerfing templar by changing minor prophecy to a resistance buff. This esentially makes the skill line not worth slotting at all in PvP or solo contexts unless ZOS immediately adjusts the skill line to compensate for it. Templar's "Dawn Wrath" skill line has already been nerfed to the point that it's mainly a tank line in my eyes than a damage one, and with the changes to the passive, there's no reason for me to bother with the skill line.

TLDR: So let's recap

1. ZOS releases subclassing

2. Subclassing alleviates problems with classes like templar that have issues in PvP (though I also don't run a pure templar in PvE when I am solo). I can get on-demand buffs that the class is missing that can result in a victory or defeat.

3. For whatever reason, ZOS decides to buff "pure classes" but forgot that not all pure classes are equal and some literally have unslottable skills because they offer no real utility or value, even vs. scribed ones.

4. The restriction is applied and the classes that have issues are told to wait some time in the future for an "update" that has no real time table, has been pushed back. It essentially means that for anyone not willing to run the original terrible skill lines on a class like templar, you aren't getting buffed even though ZOS themselves acknowledges these classes all need a buff after DK

You cannot make up how bad balance is in the game, and how it's becoming worse because the dev team simply does not understand player behavior. Instead of listening to a player that wants to restrict players like the person above that has a vendetta against subclassing for some reason, let players embrace freedom. At least until you actually rework these classes.

The game is supposed to be about fun, yet in PvE I'm stuck with the same boring combinations from over 10 years ago s a pure class, and in PvP I just have to fight an uphill battle against a DK that wins by a landslide.

Exactly how this is viewed as good balance or even engaging by anyone on the development team is baffling. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't enjoy pure classing before subclassing and would just swap classes half the time because the pure classes I use most both suck in PvP.

And I feel the compensation for pure classing is inadequate, especially on templar. It could be a different story if scribing were a better system and expanded upon, but no. That's not happening; instead what we get told is to wait for a rework years down the line.

The situation is terrible, but it does not have to be this way. It is this way because someone wants it to be. And that's the ultimate insult to anyone playing the game and disappointed with balance at any level.

Luneca wrote: »

Because ZOS doesn't understand that what made subclassing popular was that fact that it allowed flexibility -- something that class masteries cannot replicate. Let's be honest, on most of the bottom classes (esp. in PvP) most of the skills are either unslottable or they do too little to justify slotting them.

Some classes don't even have a reliable way to get major prophecy on both bars using 1 slottable skill, missing proper access to buffs on demand, etc.

Subclassing gives us the option to remove a skill line and fix those issues, since ZOS isn't interested in actually doing so for every class or buffing the generic sources of these buffs. Maybe they will in some future that may never come, but no one cares about a maybe -- we care about the now and what is definite.

What that means is that the mastery system actually works against the players on the classes with lacking skill lines and ultimately offers nothing.

Templar is one of the better examples in PvP. You can get masteries, but they offer little to nothing that templar didn't already have enough of, and in an actual combat situation make little difference except when running in a group. Certainly not as much difference as subclassing.

Templar healer: actually lacks enough healing -- crazy statement, but reality. Compared to warden, templar healer is inferior in every way and has been for a long time. It doesn't help that restoration staff is a lackluster skill line outside of its ult, and that beyond sticky HoT stacking none of the skills are used by the majority of players wielding one. If it didn't give increased magicka back, I wonder how many would even slot it?

There is no universe where I would take two masteries over warden subclass, which gives me more skills to slot, minor toughness, and more major mending uptime in addition to Tree Ult (which I consider better than templar's healing ult). Oh and there's Lotus Blossom to alleviate the crit issue templars have

Subclassing alleviates the issue the class has with skills that simply aren't slottable and missing buffs. If you want to currently use the masteries -- which are the excuse for not buffing up skill lines immediately on classes that are behind in either PvP or PvE -- then you have to give that up and actually lose out more in reality than you could potentailly gain.

Now ZOS is also nerfing templar by changing minor prophecy to a resistance buff. This esentially makes the skill line not worth slotting at all in PvP or solo contexts unless ZOS immediately adjusts the skill line to compensate for it. Templar's "Dawn Wrath" skill line has already been nerfed to the point that it's mainly a tank line in my eyes than a damage one, and with the changes to the passive, there's no reason for me to bother with the skill line.

TLDR: So let's recap

1. ZOS releases subclassing

2. Subclassing alleviates problems with classes like templar that have issues in PvP (though I also don't run a pure templar in PvE when I am solo). I can get on-demand buffs that the class is missing that can result in a victory or defeat.

3. For whatever reason, ZOS decides to buff "pure classes" but forgot that not all pure classes are equal and some literally have unslottable skills because they offer no real utility or value, even vs. scribed ones.

4. The restriction is applied and the classes that have issues are told to wait some time in the future for an "update" that has no real time table, has been pushed back. It essentially means that for anyone not willing to run the original terrible skill lines on a class like templar, you aren't getting buffed even though ZOS themselves acknowledges these classes all need a buff after DK

You cannot make up how bad balance is in the game, and how it's becoming worse because the dev team simply does not understand player behavior. Instead of listening to a player that wants to restrict players like the person above that has a vendetta against subclassing for some reason, let players embrace freedom. At least until you actually rework these classes.

The game is supposed to be about fun, yet in PvE I'm stuck with the same boring combinations from over 10 years ago s a pure class, and in PvP I just have to fight an uphill battle against a DK that wins by a landslide.

Exactly how this is viewed as good balance or even engaging by anyone on the development team is baffling. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't enjoy pure classing before subclassing and would just swap classes half the time because the pure classes I use most both suck in PvP.

And I feel the compensation for pure classing is inadequate, especially on templar. It could be a different story if scribing were a better system and expanded upon, but no. That's not happening; instead what we get told is to wait for a rework years down the line.

The situation is terrible, but it does not have to be this way. It is this way because someone wants it to be. And that's the ultimate insult to anyone playing the game and disappointed with balance at any level.

This is the class rework paradoxon.

Scenario 1: A handful of skill lines have a great advantage over others and overshadow pure classes and most other subclass combinations --> "Unacceptable evil, can not be fixed by adjusting skill lines, class masteries must invalidate subclassing in its entirety"

Scenario 2: A handful of classes have a great advantage over others and completely outperform others by a large mathematically evident margin --> "Don't worry bro, reworks will fix it by adjusting other classes, just 2 more years, I promise it's fine actually, wait your turn nerds"

They made Shivering Isles so immersive they started extending into real life.

nb_rich wrote: »

Aylish wrote: »

Class Masteries are meant for people with pure class. That‘s it.

There are multiple stages for being a Vampire from my understanding. No matter what stage you’re at your considered a vampire.

If someone has 2 skill lines from the same class they should be considered that class, and still get 1 mastery.

Absolutely illogical take

Luneca wrote: »

Because ZOS doesn't understand that what made subclassing popular was that fact that it allowed flexibility -- something that class masteries cannot replicate. Let's be honest, on most of the bottom classes (esp. in PvP) most of the skills are either unslottable or they do too little to justify slotting them.

Some classes don't even have a reliable way to get major prophecy on both bars using 1 slottable skill, missing proper access to buffs on demand, etc.

Subclassing gives us the option to remove a skill line and fix those issues, since ZOS isn't interested in actually doing so for every class or buffing the generic sources of these buffs. Maybe they will in some future that may never come, but no one cares about a maybe -- we care about the now and what is definite.

What that means is that the mastery system actually works against the players on the classes with lacking skill lines and ultimately offers nothing.

Templar is one of the better examples in PvP. You can get masteries, but they offer little to nothing that templar didn't already have enough of, and in an actual combat situation make little difference except when running in a group. Certainly not as much difference as subclassing.

Templar healer: actually lacks enough healing -- crazy statement, but reality. Compared to warden, templar healer is inferior in every way and has been for a long time. It doesn't help that restoration staff is a lackluster skill line outside of its ult, and that beyond sticky HoT stacking none of the skills are used by the majority of players wielding one. If it didn't give increased magicka back, I wonder how many would even slot it?

There is no universe where I would take two masteries over warden subclass, which gives me more skills to slot, minor toughness, and more major mending uptime in addition to Tree Ult (which I consider better than templar's healing ult). Oh and there's Lotus Blossom to alleviate the crit issue templars have

Subclassing alleviates the issue the class has with skills that simply aren't slottable and missing buffs. If you want to currently use the masteries -- which are the excuse for not buffing up skill lines immediately on classes that are behind in either PvP or PvE -- then you have to give that up and actually lose out more in reality than you could potentailly gain.

Now ZOS is also nerfing templar by changing minor prophecy to a resistance buff. This esentially makes the skill line not worth slotting at all in PvP or solo contexts unless ZOS immediately adjusts the skill line to compensate for it. Templar's "Dawn Wrath" skill line has already been nerfed to the point that it's mainly a tank line in my eyes than a damage one, and with the changes to the passive, there's no reason for me to bother with the skill line.

TLDR: So let's recap

1. ZOS releases subclassing

2. Subclassing alleviates problems with classes like templar that have issues in PvP (though I also don't run a pure templar in PvE when I am solo). I can get on-demand buffs that the class is missing that can result in a victory or defeat.

3. For whatever reason, ZOS decides to buff "pure classes" but forgot that not all pure classes are equal and some literally have unslottable skills because they offer no real utility or value, even vs. scribed ones.

4. The restriction is applied and the classes that have issues are told to wait some time in the future for an "update" that has no real time table, has been pushed back. It essentially means that for anyone not willing to run the original terrible skill lines on a class like templar, you aren't getting buffed even though ZOS themselves acknowledges these classes all need a buff after DK

You cannot make up how bad balance is in the game, and how it's becoming worse because the dev team simply does not understand player behavior. Instead of listening to a player that wants to restrict players like the person above that has a vendetta against subclassing for some reason, let players embrace freedom. At least until you actually rework these classes.

The game is supposed to be about fun, yet in PvE I'm stuck with the same boring combinations from over 10 years ago s a pure class, and in PvP I just have to fight an uphill battle against a DK that wins by a landslide.

Exactly how this is viewed as good balance or even engaging by anyone on the development team is baffling. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't enjoy pure classing before subclassing and would just swap classes half the time because the pure classes I use most both suck in PvP.

And I feel the compensation for pure classing is inadequate, especially on templar. It could be a different story if scribing were a better system and expanded upon, but no. That's not happening; instead what we get told is to wait for a rework years down the line.

The situation is terrible, but it does not have to be this way. It is this way because someone wants it to be. And that's the ultimate insult to anyone playing the game and disappointed with balance at any level.

The whole long ahh post stems from misconceptions and lack of understanding. There’s too much to bother correcting rn, the advice that I can give now is listen to other points of view.

Another advice is if you want to be constructive, then add more facts and less emotions. Your posts will drastically shrink, gain value and become much easier to read.

CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Because ZOS doesn't understand that what made subclassing popular was that fact that it allowed flexibility -- something that class masteries cannot replicate. Let's be honest, on most of the bottom classes (esp. in PvP) most of the skills are either unslottable or they do too little to justify slotting them.

Some classes don't even have a reliable way to get major prophecy on both bars using 1 slottable skill, missing proper access to buffs on demand, etc.

Subclassing gives us the option to remove a skill line and fix those issues, since ZOS isn't interested in actually doing so for every class or buffing the generic sources of these buffs. Maybe they will in some future that may never come, but no one cares about a maybe -- we care about the now and what is definite.

What that means is that the mastery system actually works against the players on the classes with lacking skill lines and ultimately offers nothing.

Templar is one of the better examples in PvP. You can get masteries, but they offer little to nothing that templar didn't already have enough of, and in an actual combat situation make little difference except when running in a group. Certainly not as much difference as subclassing.

Templar healer: actually lacks enough healing -- crazy statement, but reality. Compared to warden, templar healer is inferior in every way and has been for a long time. It doesn't help that restoration staff is a lackluster skill line outside of its ult, and that beyond sticky HoT stacking none of the skills are used by the majority of players wielding one. If it didn't give increased magicka back, I wonder how many would even slot it?

There is no universe where I would take two masteries over warden subclass, which gives me more skills to slot, minor toughness, and more major mending uptime in addition to Tree Ult (which I consider better than templar's healing ult). Oh and there's Lotus Blossom to alleviate the crit issue templars have

Subclassing alleviates the issue the class has with skills that simply aren't slottable and missing buffs. If you want to currently use the masteries -- which are the excuse for not buffing up skill lines immediately on classes that are behind in either PvP or PvE -- then you have to give that up and actually lose out more in reality than you could potentailly gain.

Now ZOS is also nerfing templar by changing minor prophecy to a resistance buff. This esentially makes the skill line not worth slotting at all in PvP or solo contexts unless ZOS immediately adjusts the skill line to compensate for it. Templar's "Dawn Wrath" skill line has already been nerfed to the point that it's mainly a tank line in my eyes than a damage one, and with the changes to the passive, there's no reason for me to bother with the skill line.

TLDR: So let's recap

1. ZOS releases subclassing

2. Subclassing alleviates problems with classes like templar that have issues in PvP (though I also don't run a pure templar in PvE when I am solo). I can get on-demand buffs that the class is missing that can result in a victory or defeat.

3. For whatever reason, ZOS decides to buff "pure classes" but forgot that not all pure classes are equal and some literally have unslottable skills because they offer no real utility or value, even vs. scribed ones.

4. The restriction is applied and the classes that have issues are told to wait some time in the future for an "update" that has no real time table, has been pushed back. It essentially means that for anyone not willing to run the original terrible skill lines on a class like templar, you aren't getting buffed even though ZOS themselves acknowledges these classes all need a buff after DK

You cannot make up how bad balance is in the game, and how it's becoming worse because the dev team simply does not understand player behavior. Instead of listening to a player that wants to restrict players like the person above that has a vendetta against subclassing for some reason, let players embrace freedom. At least until you actually rework these classes.

The game is supposed to be about fun, yet in PvE I'm stuck with the same boring combinations from over 10 years ago s a pure class, and in PvP I just have to fight an uphill battle against a DK that wins by a landslide.

Exactly how this is viewed as good balance or even engaging by anyone on the development team is baffling. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't enjoy pure classing before subclassing and would just swap classes half the time because the pure classes I use most both suck in PvP.

And I feel the compensation for pure classing is inadequate, especially on templar. It could be a different story if scribing were a better system and expanded upon, but no. That's not happening; instead what we get told is to wait for a rework years down the line.

The situation is terrible, but it does not have to be this way. It is this way because someone wants it to be. And that's the ultimate insult to anyone playing the game and disappointed with balance at any level.

I am not going to stop talking about what is really happening as I watch my day 1 Guilds disintegrate into nothing. U46 has started an absolute destruction of this game. And while it might be painful for people to hear, im not going anywhere. I care about this game very deeply. 220 members in each of our 12 Guilds know each other in real life. And its time to get the ridiculousness stopped. It is not going to go on for 10 more years. Not with what has happened. I will not be silenced. And neither will my Guilds. What has transpired is absolutely a disaster beyond words. They need to remove the U46 cherry picking system and restore Developer controlled BLANCE to the game through REAL Classes. Hire your own testers already. It's not too late

Don't go anywhere, differing opinions are always a good thing. It's not for players to find the solution to the problem, it's for the developers.

Also, there's a lot more than just subclassing that played a part in people leaving the game. Even back in that update people said the game was in maint mode. Don't believe it? Check ESO Reddit, Steam, and elsewhere other than these forums.

And that sentiment was because the content that we got wasn't exactly good even as far back as then. No one needs to pretend that a singular update really changed so much among the player's mindset esp. when the problems in PvE had already surfaced (release of Arcanist, Oakensoul, etc.).

If trivializing the game is a reason to leave, these players had to have discontent for more than one patch and the decision isn't solely subclassing which I would actually say is the least egregious among the changes that ZOS has pushed since 2020 regarding balance and the overall combat experience.

I still maintain that mythics were a mistake, mainly because of the idea that you have to grind for power or possibly be excluded for not doing so or fall too far behind. And this pigeonholing and "forced" build direction to compete is exactly what you've complained that subclassing does, yet one is fine and the other is not in your eyes?

I cannot understand it or agree to it, especially when subclassing ultimately achieves the same "negative" outcome in your eyes, yet requires less time investment (and in some cases money) . I don't think running a dungeon over 50 times for a lead is entertaining, but perhaps we differ in opinion there too.

At any rate, keep fighting your fight. I'll simply keep disagreeing.

nb_rich wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Aylish wrote: »

Class Masteries are meant for people with pure class. That‘s it.

There are multiple stages for being a Vampire from my understanding. No matter what stage you’re at your considered a vampire.

If someone has 2 skill lines from the same class they should be considered that class, and still get 1 mastery.

No, they shouldn't. Unless you're actively pure classing, you're not a master of that class. It's an investment solely into a pure class. The moment you dip your toes out, you're not a pure class. There's nothing to be considered.

You either roll pure class if you want them, or subclass. There's no in between.

Edited addendum; Vampirism isn't considered a class mechanically. It's a state of the player character and a world skill line. Two completely different, and irrelevant, things. The same with werewolf.

Regardless, this isn't likely to happen as the devs stated exactly why they wouldn't in the patch notes. I encourage you to read them.

I didn’t say Vampirism is a class, I used it as a example that your still a vampire no matter what stage you are.

Whatever your starting class is what you are. There is no way to equipped more than 1 skill lime from a class outside your own. Having 2 skill limes doesn’t mean your a “master” of the class, but on your way there so should be rewarded 1 class mastery.

Not sure what the devs said, but there is a lot of things that was said that changed. They can’t know what changes to make until the updates are out in real time and right now it makes no sense we are not given 1 class mastery for having two skill lines in one class. If they aren’t going to reward one skill point then they need to remove limiting us from not being able to use 2 skill lines from another class.

Vampire is a completely different system and your "example" is like trying to compare apples to oranges.

Secondly, I posted both the patch notes WITH a screenshot about what they've said—it's LITERALLY in this thread (post #3). It's meant for pure class only. Nothing has changed in that regard and won't change because it was introduced to solve the power imbalance with Subclassing vs Pure Class. There's nothing more to be said here. They tell you why it won't happen right in it's very introduction.

It is to lessen the gap between Subclasses overshadowing Pure Classes. I'm not going to address the "two skill lines from another class" because that's an entirely different topic. But overall, Class Masteries are because you invest in your pure class. The moment you dip out of the pure class paradigm, you're not a master of that class—hence why you won't get them.

nb_rich wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

Aylish wrote: »

Class Masteries are meant for people with pure class. That‘s it.

There are multiple stages for being a Vampire from my understanding. No matter what stage you’re at your considered a vampire.

If someone has 2 skill lines from the same class they should be considered that class, and still get 1 mastery.

No, they shouldn't. Unless you're actively pure classing, you're not a master of that class. It's an investment solely into a pure class. The moment you dip your toes out, you're not a pure class. There's nothing to be considered.

You either roll pure class if you want them, or subclass. There's no in between.

Edited addendum; Vampirism isn't considered a class mechanically. It's a state of the player character and a world skill line. Two completely different, and irrelevant, things. The same with werewolf.

Regardless, this isn't likely to happen as the devs stated exactly why they wouldn't in the patch notes. I encourage you to read them.

I didn’t say Vampirism is a class, I used it as a example that your still a vampire no matter what stage you are.

Whatever your starting class is what you are. There is no way to equipped more than 1 skill lime from a class outside your own. Having 2 skill limes doesn’t mean your a “master” of the class, but on your way there so should be rewarded 1 class mastery.

Not sure what the devs said, but there is a lot of things that was said that changed. They can’t know what changes to make until the updates are out in real time and right now it makes no sense we are not given 1 class mastery for having two skill lines in one class. If they aren’t going to reward one skill point then they need to remove limiting us from not being able to use 2 skill lines from another class.

Vampire is a completely different system and your "example" is like trying to compare apples to oranges.

Secondly, I posted both the patch notes WITH a screenshot about what they've said—it's LITERALLY in this thread (post #3). It's meant for pure class only. Nothing has changed in that regard and won't change because it was introduced to solve the power imbalance with Subclassing vs Pure Class. There's nothing more to be said here. They tell you why it won't happen right in it's very introduction.

It is to lessen the gap between Subclasses overshadowing Pure Classes. I'm not going to address the "two skill lines from another class" because that's an entirely different topic. But overall, Class Masteries are because you invest in your pure class. The moment you dip out of the pure class paradigm, you're not a master of that class—hence why you won't get them.

Sounds like your someone thats always tryna be right so responding to you is pretty much pointles but whatever ima respond.

Aint no apples and oranges when regardless if your subclass or not your still considered the class you originally started with. Not difficult to look in your group or guild and see the little sign representing your class right beside it.

Also makes no sense you go straight to 2 class masteries for having 3 skill limes, nothing for having 2 but the only way you can have 2 skill lines of the same class is if you were that class originally.

Once again doesn’t matter what the devs said cause they are judging everything before getting time for us to test it out live. If they want to keep it like this they need to remove the restrictions of not being able to use 2 skill lines from another class since there is no benefit having 2 skill lines from one class.

You mention they added class masteries for balancing subclassing and pure builds, but everyone was subclassing all three skill lines. There is almost no builds online weather its youtube, build websites or this forum people are using 2 skill lines from the same class and over performing, or performing better then pure classes/subclassing 2 of 3 skill lines. This means that this needs a buff or change. The only thing to balance out builds using 2 skill lines from the same class is to give them 1 mastery

And several people in multiple threads have told you why they won't enable Class Masteries outside of Pure Classing. Everything I've stated is literally within the patch notes, so it's not about me being right—it's about your refusal to acknowledge those developer comments about why Class Masteries were created in the first place. So this will be my last post to you. After that I'm just going to use the tools I have to make my forum experience better for myself.

Also, just because there isn't a video of it doesn't mean it's not possible. You can use your original class of Templar, using two skill lines from it, while subclassing into Nightblade. Maybe tinker with the system a little longer before assuming it isn't possible. Have a lovely evening.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

The overpowered crazy Subclassing builds lost zero power from class masteries being introduced btw.

They didn’t lose power, but they achieved that power by subclassing 2 skill lines that were mainly Harold of the Tome and assassination. No one was subclassing 1 line hitting crazy consistent numbers.

You’re also not considering class masteries did not exist in the beginning of subclassing and class sets were not buffed. This made the gap between subclassing (especially 1 skill line) and pure classes way to much. Subclassing one skill line you lose both your class masteries while keeping a skill line that does not provide the best skills/passives for your role.

Funny thing is im also focused on just dps since that is all I play but imagine a healer or tank that subclasses just one skill line lol. Its literally pointless for them, especially for Arcanist, Necros and Wardens that have their skill line separated by roles

Radiate77 wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

The overpowered crazy Subclassing builds lost zero power from class masteries being introduced btw.

Yet the other 99% of crazy underpowered Subclassing builds lost power in direct comparison.

But in fact they haven’t lost any power either

Zyaneth_Bal wrote: »

nb_rich wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

The overpowered crazy Subclassing builds lost zero power from class masteries being introduced btw.

They didn’t lose power, but they achieved that power by subclassing 2 skill lines that were mainly Harold of the Tome and assassination. No one was subclassing 1 line hitting crazy consistent numbers.

You’re also not considering class masteries did not exist in the beginning of subclassing and class sets were not buffed. This made the gap between subclassing (especially 1 skill line) and pure classes way to much. Subclassing one skill line you lose both your class masteries while keeping a skill line that does not provide the best skills/passives for your role.

Funny thing is im also focused on just dps since that is all I play but imagine a healer or tank that subclasses just one skill line lol. Its literally pointless for them, especially for Arcanist, Necros and Wardens that have their skill line separated by roles

Same point. Builds with 1 subclassed line remained exactly as they used to be.
Subclassing was never meant to be about power but versatility.
Although the real main idea behind it was purely rp fantasy driven and not well thought through, so keep that in mind ig

It wasn’t meant to be about power but it ended up that way. Its the reason they had to come out with masteries and class refreshes.

because the point of class masteries was to provide a bonus for those who dont subclass