Maintenance for the week of August 10:
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• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – August 10, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
PTS week 2, still no mention of any DK changes?
BioBitter100
✭✭✭
As it stands right now DK will not get any significant adjustments next patch, besides Pyrebrand being slightly buffed(lol?). I can only speak for myself but as a PvP only player I don´t think I can keep playing if this goes live. The last few months were more than enough of this heavily unbalanced meta and I can´t stand it anymore.
8
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CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭✭And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!11 -
XVestigeXx✭✭✭CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk10 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.0 -
LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If they truly are going to wait till 2027 to do the rest of the rework... the current state of pvp.... they are burning players and they are so slow to respond to these issues...
(flips table and throws everything)
When is ES6 coming out? Oh yeah... another 3+ years.
- xCatguyLadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
YesRest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Average "DK doesn't need to be nerfed" player.
The signature is just an added bonus:
Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-20257 -
Adrastus✭✭✭i prefer this meta over the invisible nb gank years held meta where dudes would just burst and stealth and if caught up, have high mobility/speed to dodge roll infinitely etc. as crazy as it sounds, this prob a lot less toxic in the eyes of new pvpers too.
wait for the buffs or uninstall, srs2 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭i prefer this meta over the invisible nb gank years held meta where dudes would just burst and stealth and if caught up, have high mobility/speed to dodge roll infinitely etc. as crazy as it sounds, this prob a lot less toxic in the eyes of new pvpers too.
wait for the buffs or uninstall, srs
Or we can keep speaking about it on a forum.2 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Average "DK doesn't need to be nerfed" player.
The signature is just an added bonus:
Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
It's funny that you quote that over and over like it's an own, but by your own standard, if DK went back to pre-class refresh, something that I would enjoy, then that would be a nerf. That this idea has never crossed your mind is suspicious.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Average "DK doesn't need to be nerfed" player.
The signature is just an added bonus:
Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
It's funny that you quote that over and over like it's an own, but by your own standard, if DK went back to pre-class refresh, something that I would enjoy, then that would be a nerf. That this idea has never crossed your mind is suspicious.
[snip] You are so out of your depth you think infinite sustain is fine. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 11, 2026 10:30AM3 -
Luneca✭✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Average "DK doesn't need to be nerfed" player.
The signature is just an added bonus:
Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
It's funny that you quote that over and over like it's an own, but by your own standard, if DK went back to pre-class refresh, something that I would enjoy, then that would be a nerf. That this idea has never crossed your mind is suspicious.
[snip] You are so out of your depth you think infinite sustain is fine. [snip]
The goal of these DKs defending the class is to post a bunch of bait, get people to engage, and make the thread long so it gets closed or wastes dev time and they don't bother reading it or taking the input seriously. It's such a boring play.
The sad part is that most of these players defending what's broken on the forums are always the least memorable encounters IMO. No serious PvPer only wants to win no matter what; they want the possibility to lose because it's that possibility that makes the experience of triumph being worth it. I don't want to whip someone for nearly 30K in a tank build with over 38K HP while they damage me for 500-800 damage or less.
But then there's the type that only care about winning no matter what. The types that need to punch down. That need every advantage and delude themselves into thinking that the game is fair, balanced, and skillful in its current state. The types that pretend ESO is a fighting game like Street Fighter or Tekken. The types that you would never find in either of those games because they cannot dominate there, but need to dominate here and then claim that "builds are a skill too" even when it completely carries them.
And the best part is when they still lose anyway, they find excuses. But when they win it's fair. It's hard to take the PvP community in this game seriously when this is the case. On the forums these types will post bait and derail all the time so you get moderated.
I generally just cut the back and forth and if they are in game and on the opposing side, they know what's coming. I'm going to fire siege. Hard.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 11, 2026 10:32AM5 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭Infinite sustain and absurd burst clearly aren’t things the devs want in pvp. They just haven’t addressed every source of it yet.
WW already took significant sustain nerfs on the PTS, and ganking was heavily targeted as well. Somehow, though, DK seems to have been left off the radar.
At this point it feels like the devs forgot DK exists.Edited by CannedChicken on August 11, 2026 12:23PM0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭The only people who don't want DK nerfed are the people currently using it to perform better than they ever have. DK is extremely over buffed and there is not a single person who can have a substantive argument to say otherwise.2
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LadyGP✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Infinite sustain and absurd burst clearly aren’t things the devs want in pvp. They just haven’t addressed every source of it yet.
WW already took significant sustain nerfs on the PTS, and ganking was heavily targeted as well. Somehow, though, DK seems to have been left off the radar.
At this point it feels like the devs forgot DK exists.
Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here - I think their logic is.. why should we try to balance the DK when the rest of the classes haven't been reworked yet. You're trying to balance something against everything else which is the previous iteration.. just doesn't make sense.
The problem is, and this is where I think the studio needs to pivot hard and fast, is that since they are pushing the rest of the rework you're now putting pvp in a really bad spot until those other classes come online... and then they get rebalanced.
So because they aren't being "agile" and "pivoting" you're forced with PvP in one of the worst places it's been at since inception.
The entire group I play with have ended their eso sub yet again and left the game. Every time we come back it's just... yeah I remember why I left.
- xCatLadyGP/xCatGuy
PC/NA
Having network issues? Discconects? DM me and I will help you troubleshoot with PingPlotter to figure out what is going on.1 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Infinite sustain and absurd burst clearly aren’t things the devs want in pvp. They just haven’t addressed every source of it yet.
WW already took significant sustain nerfs on the PTS, and ganking was heavily targeted as well. Somehow, though, DK seems to have been left off the radar.
At this point it feels like the devs forgot DK exists.
Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here - I think their logic is.. why should we try to balance the DK when the rest of the classes haven't been reworked yet. You're trying to balance something against everything else which is the previous iteration.. just doesn't make sense.
The problem is, and this is where I think the studio needs to pivot hard and fast, is that since they are pushing the rest of the rework you're now putting pvp in a really bad spot until those other classes come online... and then they get rebalanced.
So because they aren't being "agile" and "pivoting" you're forced with PvP in one of the worst places it's been at since inception.
The entire group I play with have ended their eso sub yet again and left the game. Every time we come back it's just... yeah I remember why I left.
- xCat
I get the logic, but I don't think the “wait until the other classes are reworked” argument really holds up when we’ve already seen what happens with a reworked class in PvP.
WW was reworked, and it still wasn’t better than DK. A big reason is that WW doesn’t bring the same group utility DK does — it can’t cross-heal, and it doesn’t have nearly as much delayed burst, which is where a huge amount of DK’s PvP strength comes from.
And honestly, if a DK doesn’t want to die to a WW, they can just hold block and hit Inhale and survive. That alone says a lot about the disparity. WW lasted basically one patch before getting hit with multiple nerfs, and even at its peak it still wasn’t as strong as DK.
I also don't think we should assume the other class reworks are going to magically bring everything up to DK's level. DK already has pretty much every important PvP tool stacked at an S-tier level: delayed burst, burst healing, HoTs, and effectively infinite sustain. Are they really going to give every other class infinite sustain? I highly doubt it.
They’re also not going to give every class another Molten Whip or equivalent delayed burst tool just to make them competitive. And Corrosive and Leap are both incredibly strong ultimates — I don't see the other classes suddenly getting ultimates buffed to compete with those either.
That’s why I’m worried this isn't just a temporary “DK is strong until the other reworks happen” situation. If the reworks don't specifically address the things that make DK so oppressive in PvP, we could end up stuck in a DK meta for a very long time.
At some point the studio has to recognize that if one class already has all of these tools combined, the answer can't just be “wait until everyone else gets reworked.” DK needs to actually be brought back into line.
0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Infinite sustain and absurd burst clearly aren’t things the devs want in pvp. They just haven’t addressed every source of it yet.
WW already took significant sustain nerfs on the PTS, and ganking was heavily targeted as well. Somehow, though, DK seems to have been left off the radar.
At this point it feels like the devs forgot DK exists.
Trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here - I think their logic is.. why should we try to balance the DK when the rest of the classes haven't been reworked yet. You're trying to balance something against everything else which is the previous iteration.. just doesn't make sense.
The problem is, and this is where I think the studio needs to pivot hard and fast, is that since they are pushing the rest of the rework you're now putting pvp in a really bad spot until those other classes come online... and then they get rebalanced.
So because they aren't being "agile" and "pivoting" you're forced with PvP in one of the worst places it's been at since inception.
The entire group I play with have ended their eso sub yet again and left the game. Every time we come back it's just... yeah I remember why I left.
- xCat
I get the logic, but I don't think the “wait until the other classes are reworked” argument really holds up when we’ve already seen what happens with a reworked class in PvP.
WW was reworked, and it still wasn’t better than DK. A big reason is that WW doesn’t bring the same group utility DK does — it can’t cross-heal, and it doesn’t have nearly as much delayed burst, which is where a huge amount of DK’s PvP strength comes from.
And honestly, if a DK doesn’t want to die to a WW, they can just hold block and hit Inhale and survive. That alone says a lot about the disparity. WW lasted basically one patch before getting hit with multiple nerfs, and even at its peak it still wasn’t as strong as DK.
I also don't think we should assume the other class reworks are going to magically bring everything up to DK's level. DK already has pretty much every important PvP tool stacked at an S-tier level: delayed burst, burst healing, HoTs, and effectively infinite sustain. Are they really going to give every other class infinite sustain? I highly doubt it.
They’re also not going to give every class another Molten Whip or equivalent delayed burst tool just to make them competitive. And Corrosive and Leap are both incredibly strong ultimates — I don't see the other classes suddenly getting ultimates buffed to compete with those either.
That’s why I’m worried this isn't just a temporary “DK is strong until the other reworks happen” situation. If the reworks don't specifically address the things that make DK so oppressive in PvP, we could end up stuck in a DK meta for a very long time.
At some point the studio has to recognize that if one class already has all of these tools combined, the answer can't just be “wait until everyone else gets reworked.” DK needs to actually be brought back into line.
My WW has melted a ton of DKs. They just sit there and either die or get stuck healing. Their burst tickles against my 45k hp.
Meanwhile, one class does stand out for being a formidable opponent. That would be sorc. My WW has gotten blown up by a few of them in ways that make me realize that thinking I could get to parity with Sorc while on my DK, if I just changed my build around enough or learned enough, was such a novice thing.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.Edited by NovelliESO on August 12, 2026 12:00AM0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
That's great and all but nobody suggested that and this thread isn't about reverting back to pre subclassing DK, your position on infinite sustain is telling of your entire position as a whole. You do realize your initial comment is about sustain in this thread, so why is it so confusing to you that sustain is the conversation you are embroiled in?0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
That's great and all but nobody suggested that and this thread isn't about reverting back to pre subclassing DK, your position on infinite sustain is telling of your entire position as a whole. You do realize your initial comment is about sustain in this thread, so why is it so confusing to you that sustain is the conversation you are embroiled in?
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
That's great and all but nobody suggested that and this thread isn't about reverting back to pre subclassing DK, your position on infinite sustain is telling of your entire position as a whole. You do realize your initial comment is about sustain in this thread, so why is it so confusing to you that sustain is the conversation you are embroiled in?
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
You can spam the same comment all you want, doesn't change you not being able to engage, I directly responded to what you said.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.
Basically, the form of prejudice that @NovelliESO is mistakenly trying to invoke is to write that because I wrote that I don't think sustain should matter, that it means that people are bad for not wanting DK to be nerfed.
The mistake in that thinking is that I want DK to be pre-class refresh. I don't like the class refresh idea in general. I don't like what DK is now. I don't like how it plays.
I think that everyone will agree that if DK became it's pre-class refresh, then the class as a whole, including sustain, would be significantly nerfed.
The other poster isn't correctly sepparating these ideas. Instead they are lumping ideas in together. In doing so, they don't see the nuance present and don't address their mistaken perception that just because I think sustain in ESO is an accross the board anachronism, that doesn't mean that there aren't changes that could make DK better in my opinion.
Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.0 -
NovelliESO✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.
Basically, the form of prejudice that @NovelliESO is mistakenly trying to invoke is to write that because I wrote that I don't think sustain should matter, that it means that people are bad for not wanting DK to be nerfed.
The mistake in that thinking is that I want DK to be pre-class refresh. I don't like the class refresh idea in general. I don't like what DK is now. I don't like how it plays.
I think that everyone will agree that if DK became it's pre-class refresh, then the class as a whole, including sustain, would be significantly nerfed.
The other poster isn't correctly sepparating these ideas. Instead they are lumping ideas in together. In doing so, they don't see the nuance present and don't address their mistaken perception that just because I think sustain in ESO is an accross the board anachronism, that doesn't mean that there aren't changes that could make DK better in my opinion.
Again, zero engagement. I don't think you are bad, I think your logic and arguments are either bad faith or so far from sustainable they aren't worth engaging with the vast majority of the time. A position where you think sustain should be infinite and that isn't an issue is immensely flawed.
Nobody is making the mistake you are alluding to, that just isn't the topic of conversation and you have yet to engage with what the actual conversation was.
Nobody is going to talk about going back to pre refresh DK because that makes zero sense from a design perspective, devs already put time into it, they are doing more class refreshes, why would we talk about going back to pre refresh? It's a pointless discussion.
Word salad in an attempt to make a point, but can't engage substantively even on the most base level metric.0 -
CannedChicken✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.
Basically, the form of prejudice that @NovelliESO is mistakenly trying to invoke is to write that because I wrote that I don't think sustain should matter, that it means that people are bad for not wanting DK to be nerfed.
The mistake in that thinking is that I want DK to be pre-class refresh. I don't like the class refresh idea in general. I don't like what DK is now. I don't like how it plays.
I think that everyone will agree that if DK became it's pre-class refresh, then the class as a whole, including sustain, would be significantly nerfed.
The other poster isn't correctly sepparating these ideas. Instead they are lumping ideas in together. In doing so, they don't see the nuance present and don't address their mistaken perception that just because I think sustain in ESO is an accross the board anachronism, that doesn't mean that there aren't changes that could make DK better in my opinion.
I think you’re conflating two very different arguments.
There is a huge difference between asking for DK to be brought down a bit—particularly reducing its burst potential and removing the effectively infinite sustain—and asking for the class to be nerfed into oblivion. Those are not remotely the same position.0 -
MeridiaFavorsMe✭✭✭CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.
Basically, the form of prejudice that @NovelliESO is mistakenly trying to invoke is to write that because I wrote that I don't think sustain should matter, that it means that people are bad for not wanting DK to be nerfed.
The mistake in that thinking is that I want DK to be pre-class refresh. I don't like the class refresh idea in general. I don't like what DK is now. I don't like how it plays.
I think that everyone will agree that if DK became it's pre-class refresh, then the class as a whole, including sustain, would be significantly nerfed.
The other poster isn't correctly sepparating these ideas. Instead they are lumping ideas in together. In doing so, they don't see the nuance present and don't address their mistaken perception that just because I think sustain in ESO is an accross the board anachronism, that doesn't mean that there aren't changes that could make DK better in my opinion.
I think you’re conflating two very different arguments.
There is a huge difference between asking for DK to be brought down a bit—particularly reducing its burst potential and removing the effectively infinite sustain—and asking for the class to be nerfed into oblivion. Those are not remotely the same position.
Saying “remove the effectively infinite sustain” while also saying you’re not asking for the class to be “nerfed into oblivion” doesn’t really hold up.
If the sustain is effectively infinite, then reducing it to any finite value is an infinite nerf. You’re not just taking something from 100 to 80 or 100 to 50—you’re taking it from infinite to a finite number. That is, quite literally, an infinite reduction.
Whether that nerf is good for the game is a separate argument entirely. By that same logic, though, if the class genuinely has infinite sustain, which it does, then it’s also infinitely overpowered in that aspect to begin with.Edited by MeridiaFavorsMe on August 12, 2026 2:39AM1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.
Basically, the form of prejudice that @NovelliESO is mistakenly trying to invoke is to write that because I wrote that I don't think sustain should matter, that it means that people are bad for not wanting DK to be nerfed.
The mistake in that thinking is that I want DK to be pre-class refresh. I don't like the class refresh idea in general. I don't like what DK is now. I don't like how it plays.
I think that everyone will agree that if DK became it's pre-class refresh, then the class as a whole, including sustain, would be significantly nerfed.
The other poster isn't correctly sepparating these ideas. Instead they are lumping ideas in together. In doing so, they don't see the nuance present and don't address their mistaken perception that just because I think sustain in ESO is an accross the board anachronism, that doesn't mean that there aren't changes that could make DK better in my opinion.
Again, zero engagement. I don't think you are bad, I think your logic and arguments are either bad faith or so far from sustainable they aren't worth engaging with the vast majority of the time. A position where you think sustain should be infinite and that isn't an issue is immensely flawed.
Nobody is making the mistake you are alluding to, that just isn't the topic of conversation and you have yet to engage with what the actual conversation was.
Nobody is going to talk about going back to pre refresh DK because that makes zero sense from a design perspective, devs already put time into it, they are doing more class refreshes, why would we talk about going back to pre refresh? It's a pointless discussion.
Word salad in an attempt to make a point, but can't engage substantively even on the most base level metric.
You've wrote that I'm commenting in bad faith multiple times. You have no evidence of this idea. To the contrary, directing such slights at others, again and again, without proof is something that someone acting in bad faith would do.
When was the last time that good players ever had a difficult time sustaining their resources? It's a non factor for many players and the pressure that it presents other players isn't that important. I'd be perfectly fine with raising the floor for anyone who does have sustain issues because, again, I don't think that sustain is an imporant game mechanic at this time and point in the games history. This is a direct point discussing the topic. You should address why the idea is "immensely flawed" and I don't think you can because games change over time. That's just how it is. The same can be said for damage that is enough to be lethal in PvP within a quick time window. Damage is going to be high sometimes. That's just how it is. At the very least be consistent and release your theory about the damage cap that all classes should have based on some objective criteria. That's what the design team does. If you don't like that, it's okay, but it's just one opinion in a game with many voices.
Of course the class isn't going back to pre-refresh. The reason I even bring that up is because of your repeated quoting of my signature which you choose to not understand. And, yes, you've made the mistake that I've indicated by directly tying the quote to the idea that the quote somehow means anything other than I think that DK died in 2025. It would be wise to listen to players, such as myself, who called out issues with the refresh. Maybe if people were not hopping on the refresh bandwaggon, they wouldn't now be complaining so hard about main DK having better tools to bring it up to parity with other class choices.
The only remotely specific thing that this thread opened on is the Pyrebrand set. You've claimed that I'm not on topic and spamming as though the DK can't be written about in a general way. Where are your comments about Pyrebrand? Can you please cut back on the "word salad?"
Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
Teeba_Shei✭✭✭✭✭
✭MeridiaFavorsMe wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »CannedChicken wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »NovelliESO wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »XVestigeXx wrote: »CatalinaWineMixer2 wrote: »And yet you endured over a year of the Green Beam? And Warden Charm? The DK is fine, it needs to be left alone. One of two things need to happen immediately. Not years from now.
1. Remove the broken cherry picking Subclassing system that put us here in the first place
2. Complete all of the reworks IMMEDIATELY
Nothing is wrong with the DK. Or WW. The rest of the Classes are THAT BAD. Stop nerfing our characters! Everyone is tired of the same excuse, "I died, everyone else needs nerfed. Just not me." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are not going to entertain 10 more years of this.
End Subclassing now. Restore the DK to the rest of the game with 3 skill lines, Healer, Tank, Dps. Use the Class Mastery Passives to balance the power level of the other 6 to the DK. Tomorrow! Not years from now like the ficticious path we are on! Then, make more Classes. This Subclassing insanity has gone on long enough. @Zos You are killing our Guilds because you refuse to eliminate and/or gut Subclassing! Wake up!
If you think dk is fine and a good point for all classes to be at then you are out of your gourd. For example, Dk has infinite sustain through their passives and core of flame. This is a game breaking problem. Sustain should mean something. I do not want to see every class trivialize the core combat mechanics and pillars of buildcrafting. This is just one part of what is wrong with dk
Sustain is an anachronism from a different game.
So infinite sustain is just okay to you?
Yes
Infinite sustain is okay. These are the people playing DK asking for it to not get nerfed.
I would prefer DK to go back to being pre-class refresh. That would be considered to be a nerf by your own standard. You have not addressed that idea. Instead you just write the same things over and over as if they are mic drops.
I'm not even sure what you are saying. People are asking for a small nerf on the burst potential, removing the infinite sustain, and you're acting like the class is going back to pre-refresh.
Basically, the form of prejudice that @NovelliESO is mistakenly trying to invoke is to write that because I wrote that I don't think sustain should matter, that it means that people are bad for not wanting DK to be nerfed.
The mistake in that thinking is that I want DK to be pre-class refresh. I don't like the class refresh idea in general. I don't like what DK is now. I don't like how it plays.
I think that everyone will agree that if DK became it's pre-class refresh, then the class as a whole, including sustain, would be significantly nerfed.
The other poster isn't correctly sepparating these ideas. Instead they are lumping ideas in together. In doing so, they don't see the nuance present and don't address their mistaken perception that just because I think sustain in ESO is an accross the board anachronism, that doesn't mean that there aren't changes that could make DK better in my opinion.
I think you’re conflating two very different arguments.
There is a huge difference between asking for DK to be brought down a bit—particularly reducing its burst potential and removing the effectively infinite sustain—and asking for the class to be nerfed into oblivion. Those are not remotely the same position.
Saying “remove the effectively infinite sustain” while also saying you’re not asking for the class to be “nerfed into oblivion” doesn’t really hold up.
If the sustain is effectively infinite, then reducing it to any finite value is an infinite nerf. You’re not just taking something from 100 to 80 or 100 to 50—you’re taking it from infinite to a finite number. That is, quite literally, an infinite reduction.
Whether that nerf is good for the game is a separate argument entirely. By that same logic, though, if the class genuinely has infinite sustain, which it does, then it’s also infinitely overpowered in that aspect to begin with.
Calling the DK sustain “effectively infinite” and then treating any reduction as an “infinite nerf” is like saying Israel’s military budget is effectively infinite and therefore any cut to it is also an infinite reduction. Technically cute, but completely useless for evaluating the actual magnitude or impact of the change.
The question isn't whether the number goes from infinite to finite; it's whether the resulting sustain is still excessive for the role and balance of the class.
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HunterDawn✭✭This is the DK forum, after all😅I’d agree DK is overtuned and deserves nerfs if you were ranting about it on YouTube or other platforms. But we’re on the forum here, so all I’ll say is you need more practice.0