New Community Input Dashboards

BretonMage · August 6

I can't believe I have to explain this but you can't know what's genuinely popular if people can cast multiple votes.

I am not an "mmo type", this is pretty basic common sense.

Roztlin45 · August 6

If you want to know how your dying Hospital patient is doing, YOU (Zos) have to go in their room and take the pulse. Stop asking the people sitting in the waiting room how they are doing. Actually, require employees to invest in 100's or 1000's of hours playing this game. Actually, interact in zone chat, with guilds, and most of all anonymously (random dungeons/PVP). You would know where your strengths and weaknesses are. It is simple. You cannot fake guanine connectivity with the player base. This is the way.

Wolfshade · August 6

There is no need to focus on that polnish localization i named as an example cause as i watched and tried it, this was on top of the list, thats all.

The Dashboards are a pretty cool function /tool/idea whatever and i see it as usefull too as it comes to the point to understand what are highest priorities in playerbase. If it is so easy to hijack that system it will just not be helpful to understand priorities and the goal for what it is created. The results will always leads to the next controversial discussions and the work and the idea self will be discussed next. The idea is good, but this way will then leads to a negativ point of view, only cause that it is not set up in a "propper" way.

Only one time, someone noted that some points were getted upvotet, it will leads to that what i mentioned above, too. So if you like the idea and you would like to protect all of that work, the idea, and to reach the named goal, to understand priotities then you should anticipate that, in best case all of that. From that point of view it makes me come to the conclusion better to but it behind some kind of logging. Not to make it harder or to put some extra work for the team, just to prevent some points and make/keep it understandable and helpful.

Destai · August 6

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I still have a suggestion waiting on approval as of a few days ago.

https://elderscrollsonline-feedback.featureupvote.com/suggestions/724712/improve-combat-team-communication

It's a constructive suggestion that provides clear steps (IMO) for improving combat communication. That's a very visible pain point for the community.

The information there is:

The combat team could significantly improve communication by directly implementing player feedback for better communication.

First, the team should regularly stream themselves playing current content, be it PVP (BGs, Cyrodiil, IC) or PVP. Veteran dungeons, trials, overland (across Challenge Difficulties) This isn't about showcasing perfect gameplay—it's about showing how the developers approach combat, experience their own changes, and discuss their decision-making in real time. Seeing the team actively engage with the game would build credibility and create more informed discussions.

Second, each major combat patch should include developer builds and parses. They should show the builds they tested, the resulting parses, and the metrics that support their conclusions. Players are routinely asked to provide data, so it's reasonable for the developers to share the data informing their own decisions.

Third, every significant balance change should include a clear framework explaining how it benefits players. Rather than simply listing numerical adjustments, the team should explain the problem being solved, why the chosen solution is preferable to alternatives, what gameplay improvements they expect, and how success will be measured after launch.

Beyond individual patches, the combat team should define each class's intended playstyle and role. Every class should have a clearly communicated combat identity—whether it excels at DoTs, burst, direct damage, heavy attacks, pets, or support—and an intended S/A/B/C rating for Damage, Tank, and Healer that makes its strengths and tradeoffs explicit. This gives players a long-term framework for understanding balance decisions instead of viewing each patch in isolation.

Finally, the team should publish a long-term combat roadmap. Players need to understand what the end state of combat looks like, what problems remain, what milestones the team intends to reach, and how each update moves the game closer to that vision.

Totally understand you guys all are busy, but I do think this is a helpful and necessary suggestion. I worry it's not being approved for other reasons.

Umbracat449 · August 6

BretonMage wrote: »

I can't believe I have to explain this but you can't know what's genuinely popular if people can cast multiple votes.

I am not an "mmo type", this is pretty basic common sense.

It's likely they are using this because it has an export function and they can generate a list they can read and discuss easily, and the forum platform does not. It makes a nice clean list, the and forum thread is a mass of ideas and discussiins. Voting is an added extra. Genuinely popular in the tool is not really the issue. Its how easily they can do it, how much it might cost.

Really really overthinking it.

allochthons · August 6

I don't really have an opinion either way about multiple votes and my opinion on downvotes isn't terribly strong, but would like to point out that the rate of submissions has already dropped pretty drastically. It may simply be a non-issue.

shadoza · August 6

tomofhyrule wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

ESO_player123 wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Down votes are entirely unnecessary. It would only serve to devalue the purpose of the dashboard.

The entire point is to observe how many players place importance on a submission. The ratio of in-favor to not-in-favor has no factor in this data point.

[edit] As well, adding down votes would turn submissions into a contest of wills as opposing factions rally the troops to overcome each other. Completely invalidating the data they're looking to collect.

If the bolded part is correct then why people are claiming that votes do not matter and that the ability to cast as many votes as you want is fine.

What doesn't matter is where those accumulated upvotes places a submission on any perceived ranking ladder. Again... It's not a contest. It's not a competition.

Then as someone already asked, what's the point of being able to upvote? If they just wanted a list of things to draw on or think about, without any regard to how much the community seems to care or not care about any given thing, why have upvoting at all? If it really doesn't matter then there should be no ability to upvote things, it should just be a board where we can make and view submissions.

Because being able to click a button for "ooh, I want this too!" is a lot more user friendly than trying to post your idea and getting "ERROR: THIS SUGGESTION IS ALREADY ON THE LIST SO WE'RE NOT GONNA LISTEN TO YOU!"

Again, they're not going to implement things in order of likes... which we're going to see when they implement something and people immediately run here to whine " but my suggestion has 3.5 more likes than the one they put in so ZOS is biased against me personally!"

All it is is a count of how many people also like that idea. And if you think of it as a popularity contest, you are totally free to blast your suggestion all over social media to drum up support for it. But it'll still get just as much attention from the devs either way.

That is true if it's one vote per person. I have no issue if someone goes to an ESO guild chat/discord and rally up the members. However, if I go and vote 300 times or rally people that do not even play ESO, does it really tell how many people liked that idea?

You are taking this much too seriously.

If someone wants to nolife and get their suggestion to the top of the chart, then let them. That will prove one of two things:
They really want it, and therefore would be willing to pay a lot of money if ZOS does it

This is a thing that could get people who don't play ESO to start playing ESO

And again, there is no correlation between the number of votes something has and whether it will be implemented, so it's a moot point anyway. After all, the #1 thing is "Finish the Class Reworks," which is already confirmed that it will happen, from multiple Community Managers, and it was even said that they have already told the team how important it is. So by all rights it shouldn't even be on this list in the first place (even though yes, I upvoted that too because I want them done), because it's already a thing they're doing. However, as we can see, it's not a fast process, so it's unlikely to be finished before 2028 in any case. More people upvoting it isn't going to make it go any faster.

EDIT: This is also ZOS using a template that exists rather than building a new tool. Is this "super fair and reliable?" No, it isn't. Does it serve its purpose? Yeah.
I'm sure if ZOS really wanted to, they could build a voting system like this from scratch and implement it in the game like people are suggesting to make it super fair and accurate. Of course, using dev time to do that may mean that none of the suggestions could be implemented until like 2032 at the earliest, but I'm sure you'd all be fine waiting for the Class Reworks to happen until then if it meant we got really reliable voting for features, right?

(Getting your idea to the top of the list does not mean you are willing to pay cash for it. People who are not play ESO are not paying attention to the list unless someone encourages them to.)

If there is not relationship between the number of up votes and the attention it is given, then two changes should be made.

The upvote counts should be hidden. The "top" of the list should be removed from the filter options.

If it is not fair and is not accurate then it is a waste of EVERYONE's time.

(I wonder how high up "class rework before anything else is done" would be if people that are not interested in waiting for class rework before getting new content were able to vote it down?)

BretonMage · August 7

^Right. So distilling it to two simple scenarios here:

Votes are relevant -> they must be accurate
Votes are irrelevant -> they should be removed

Umbracat449 wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I can't believe I have to explain this but you can't know what's genuinely popular if people can cast multiple votes.

I am not an "mmo type", this is pretty basic common sense.

It's likely they are using this because it has an export function and they can generate a list they can read and discuss easily, and the forum platform does not. Voting is an added extra. Genuinely popular in the tool is not really the issue. Its how easily they can do it, how much it might cost.

It's both. Popular things that are easy to do will get implemented first. (All while they continue working on the class refresh of course).

Unless you have a source confirming that unpopular items will get the same degree of attention as popular items (highly unlikely, there is no industry anywhere where a company will waste resources on unpopular things), then vote accuracy is still paramount.

In fact, no, I take that back. Vote accuracy is always paramount.

Umbracat449 · August 7

"there is no industry anywhere where a company will waste resources on unpopular things"

This tool will never give a metric of what's popular that is adequately reliable as it's always going to be the opinions of an unrepresentative sub set of players. This kind of tool would never be how an industry decides to launch a product.

It's a platform that generates lists, it's whether zos wants to do it that counts. That's the measure of popular that counts here.

BretonMage · August 7

Umbracat449 wrote: »

"there is no industry anywhere where a company will waste resources on unpopular things"

This tool will never give a metric of what's popular that is adequately reliable as it's always going to be the opinions of an unrepresentative sub set of players. This kind of tool would never be how an industry decides to launch a product.

It's a platform that generates lists, it's whether zos wants to do it that counts. That's the measure of popular that counts here.

Well then, if the votes are irrelevant, disable them.

tomofhyrule · August 7

Honest question: What do you think is the better option for ZOS here:

Get a cheap existing platform that allows upvotes, even if they're not going to put much stock in them, so they can quickly start gathering feedback to implement it.
Cease all development of new features so they instead build a custom voting platform that works entirely as intended, meaning we don't even have a chance of any feedback being addressed for at least a year.
Do not ask for player feedback and instead continue making additions and changes that they think players want, and only get feedback on the PTS once it is too late to pivot.

(definitely seems there's still one team taking option 3 here, and I wish the new director would sit him down and tell him to start communication, but that's a different issue)

DenverRalphy · August 7

At this point, the easiest solution would to simply rename the checkbox from "Upvote" to "Like". Despite upvoting being different from actuallly casting balloted votes, obviously too many people seem to get hung up on the terminology.

BretonMage · August 7

DenverRalphy wrote: »

At this point, the easiest solution would to simply rename the checkbox from "Upvote" to "Like". Despite upvoting being different from actuallly casting balloted votes, obviously too many people seem to get hung up on the terminology.

Pretty sure most if not all social media platforms only allow you to "like" a post once.

DenverRalphy · August 7

BretonMage wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

At this point, the easiest solution would to simply rename the checkbox from "Upvote" to "Like". Despite upvoting being different from actuallly casting balloted votes, obviously too many people seem to get hung up on the terminology.

Pretty sure most if not all social media platforms only allow you to "like" a post once.

Change it to "sure, why not, I'm in favor" then. Anything to help relax everyone who insists on viewing it as a competition.

BretonMage · August 7

It's not a competition. But if ZOS is trying to find out what's popular, this is not going to give them accurate data. It's basically a farce by this stage. Better to disable the votes/likes.

tomofhyrule · August 7

Another thing to remember: they are manually approving every single submission. As in, if you submit something, it will be read by one of the three the Community Managers. And that’s also why there have been no new additions in a day or so, because they need to approve each thing manually.

Don’t forget that this is also only offerred in English in the first place for exactly that reason. So even if this didn’t have the upvotes and only allowed one vote per person, it still wouldn’t be representative of the entire community since it’s only in one of the supported languages.

Again, they bought an existing platform and used it as is because it was more important to the devs to get feedback fast instead of spending too long trying to figure out the fairest way to elect the President than to just get anything they could do to try to make the game better. This also has to be done quickly since the Team Leader who was dealing with all of the Player Experience plans was caught in the layoffs, so they are back to square one with QoL stuff. They need answers and fast, because U52 will drop on PTS in November and they need some good things implemented by then.

DenverRalphy · August 7

BretonMage wrote: »

It's not a competition. But if ZOS is trying to find out what's popular, this is not going to give them accurate data. It's basically a farce by this stage. Better to disable the votes/likes.

That's just it though. It doesn't need to be accurate. The entire purpose is simply to monitor a general sense of what the players want. A simple measure to keep their finger on the general pulse.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · August 7

Hey all, thanks for the feedback and questions thus far. We are a little behind on reviewing and approving (or merging) submissions and comments, but we're getting through as many as we can today. We do expect things to slow down a little after this initial rush. There are so many great ideas!

We do want to note that these boards are intended for feedback and suggestions or bugs and pain points related to the game itself. We do welcome feedback about out-of-game topics, like communications, and ask that you continue to share those with us here or reach out directly to someone on the Community Management team (Amy, Kevin, or I.) We'll make sure feedback about anything out-of-game gets to the right place for consideration.

Thank you!

Destai · August 7

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, thanks for the feedback and questions thus far. We are a little behind on reviewing and approving (or merging) submissions and comments, but we're getting through as many as we can today. We do expect things to slow down a little after this initial rush. There are so many great ideas!

We do want to note that these boards are intended for feedback and suggestions or bugs and pain points related to the game itself. We do welcome feedback about out-of-game topics, like communications, and ask that you continue to share those with us here or reach out directly to someone on the Community Management team (Amy, Kevin, or I.) We'll make sure feedback about anything out-of-game gets to the right place for consideration.

Thank you!

Thanks, I'll try to give you guys more benefit of the doubt too. I can jump to conclusions, which is unfair. Keep up the good work!

shadoza · August 7

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, thanks for the feedback and questions thus far. We are a little behind on reviewing and approving (or merging) submissions and comments, but we're getting through as many as we can today. We do expect things to slow down a little after this initial rush. There are so many great ideas!

We do want to note that these boards are intended for feedback and suggestions or bugs and pain points related to the game itself. We do welcome feedback about out-of-game topics, like communications, and ask that you continue to share those with us here or reach out directly to someone on the Community Management team (Amy, Kevin, or I.) We'll make sure feedback about anything out-of-game gets to the right place for consideration.

Thank you!

Please make the email optional when dropping a comment. Since you review them comments before allowing them to be seen, there is no need to have a email. I find it intrusive.

BretonMage · August 7

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Again, they bought an existing platform and used it as is because it was more important to the devs to get feedback fast instead of spending too long trying to figure out the fairest way to elect the President than to just get anything they could do to try to make the game better. This also has to be done quickly since the Team Leader who was dealing with all of the Player Experience plans was caught in the layoffs, so they are back to square one with QoL stuff. They need answers and fast, because U52 will drop on PTS in November and they need some good things implemented by then.

Well, we have hundreds/thousands of threads here on the forums. Hopefully they can take the suggestions and cross-refer against these threads (and on Reddit) to see what features have been requested, or even repeatedly requested.

In any case I see on Reddit that there's been some sort of bot protection triggered, so I guess ZOS is aware of the issue.

Dolgubon · August 7

https://help.featureupvote.com/article/29-how-do-you-prevent-voting-manipulation

> You may be surprised to hear that we allow multiple votes per IP address. The limit is very low. We allow this so that a person can ask one or two relatives, friends, or colleagues to vote up their submission. This lets the user feel they are gaming the system while in fact, they are having little impact on the final vote.

For everyone who's excited or worried about being able to vote for their pet issue multiple times. It totally works!

Anyway, the point of the board's isn't to get a 100% bulletproof ranking of what people want. ZOS obviously knows the voting isn't perfect, but it also doesn't need to be for them to have some idea of what players want.

spartaxoxo · August 7

Dolgubon wrote: »

https://help.featureupvote.com/article/29-how-do-you-prevent-voting-manipulation

> You may be surprised to hear that we allow multiple votes per IP address. The limit is very low. We allow this so that a person can ask one or two relatives, friends, or colleagues to vote up their submission. This lets the user feel they are gaming the system while in fact, they are having little impact on the final vote.

For everyone who's excited or worried about being able to vote for their pet issue multiple times. It totally works!

Anyway, the point of the board's isn't to get a 100% bulletproof ranking of what people want. ZOS obviously knows the voting isn't perfect, but it also doesn't need to be for them to have some idea of what players want.

Looks like the platform is aware of what we've been warning about. Many of the top suggestions are currently being throttled for precisely the sort of voting patterns being warned about.

It is nice to see the platform might alert them to it at least. So that does make things feel better. It is disheartening to see this for so many of the ideas that were pushed to the top though.

I have censored which ideas have that as I'm not trying to shame players, I'm just posting an update about the state of the list. It's nice to see the platform they have chosen does have some controls on this. Hopefully zos has some information from the company on which ideas needed throttling as well.

ETA

They confirmed on Reddit that the bot protections have been triggered.

driosketch · 12:49AM

At least I know the paused items will continue to get votes. I went through and upvoted other options that I could. A lot of good suggestions, there isn't anything I can think of right now that hasn't already been suggested.

Taarente · 2:47AM

ZOS has created a new mechanism for listening, but apparently failed to ensure it can reliably tell what players are saying.

BretonMage · 3:38AM

Dolgubon wrote: »

https://help.featureupvote.com/article/29-how-do-you-prevent-voting-manipulation

> You may be surprised to hear that we allow multiple votes per IP address. The limit is very low. We allow this so that a person can ask one or two relatives, friends, or colleagues to vote up their submission. This lets the user feel they are gaming the system while in fact, they are having little impact on the final vote.

For everyone who's excited or worried about being able to vote for their pet issue multiple times. It totally works!

Anyway, the point of the board's isn't to get a 100% bulletproof ranking of what people want. ZOS obviously knows the voting isn't perfect, but it also doesn't need to be for them to have some idea of what players want.

An unusual approach, not sure I like it. It's like being given the ability to crit in voting if you have the social media reach lol. As long as ZOS expects it I suppose that's all that matters.

Soarora · 4:31PM

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Down votes are entirely unnecessary. It would only serve to devalue the purpose of the dashboard.

The entire point is to observe how many players place importance on a submission. The ratio of in-favor to not-in-favor has no factor in this data point.

[edit] As well, adding down votes would turn submissions into a contest of wills as opposing factions rally the troops to overcome each other. Completely invalidating the data they're looking to collect.

Agreed. What makes the forums so toxic? The constant arguing. The dashboard doesn’t need that. There’s things with plenty of votes that I don’t want or think is dumb, but it’s nice not feeling like I should give my opinion. It’s nice to just… ignore it and move on.

Also, what stops most endgamers from posting on the forums? The idea that their suggestion will get “jumped” by toxic casuals. If that idea gets in peoples head for the dashboard, the ideas will get skewed.

Soarora · 4:38PM

My suggestion: allow us to flag ideas as duplicate, with a box to link the duplicate ideas. I’m seeing a lot of the same ideas get through without being merged.

shadoza · 6:45PM

Soarora wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Down votes are entirely unnecessary. It would only serve to devalue the purpose of the dashboard.

The entire point is to observe how many players place importance on a submission. The ratio of in-favor to not-in-favor has no factor in this data point.

[edit] As well, adding down votes would turn submissions into a contest of wills as opposing factions rally the troops to overcome each other. Completely invalidating the data they're looking to collect.

Agreed. What makes the forums so toxic? The constant arguing. The dashboard doesn’t need that. There’s things with plenty of votes that I don’t want or think is dumb, but it’s nice not feeling like I should give my opinion. It’s nice to just… ignore it and move on.

Also, what stops most endgamers from posting on the forums? The idea that their suggestion will get “jumped” by toxic casuals. If that idea gets in peoples head for the dashboard, the ideas will get skewed.

There will not be any bad feelings if the down votes were hidden from user's view.
The ratio of positive to negative has more value than just recording positive.

Dividing the consumers into classes, (end-gamers vs 'toxic' casuals) might be where your arguments starts.

Rungar · 8:36PM

voting systems are good for getting what players want but are absymal at getting players what they need. The whole point of the developer is to know whats needed and do that. This will only make the game worse even if seems like the opposite.