Luneca wrote: »

LordDragonSlayer wrote: »

Most WWs have about 15 to 18k mag and stamina and about 40 to 44k health. With these new numbers they will be out of resources in seconds. They do not have burst damage

I think that' the point and what ZOS was going for. If you choose to build with that little bit of resource pools, you'll now suffer the consequences like everyone else that does. 15k to 18k mag and stamina and that much of a lopsided build would be bad anywhere in the game, esp. in a PvP environment except on certain "special" builds.

That it wasn't before actually proves that the costs were too low in the first place regardless of what you or the others that enjoyed paying next to nothing for skills without any investment want to claim.

That's why they did it. Because putting the requirement to either build sustain or get good enough not to have to do it will put a limit and cap on the defensive or offensive power that's possible with your build. Which is the cap that everyone except DK abides by (though even DK needs to build into resource pools, though again, there's other builds possible that can bypass it).

The probability of you convincing them is likely 0. Skill costs should have never been that low in the first place. Literally proving that sustain was previously far too easy and ignorable with that comment, not that anyone here didn't know so already.

You don't 'suffer the consequences'. You just run sorc and potentially Arteum and you're set. In a '1 v 1' dueling parse or 'on a practice dummy', nothing meaningfully changes in these scenarios, even post-nerf. Even still, the stamina values from your own perspective do not make sense with PTS werewolf either.

I want to build 30k health (to trade into more stam for passive sustain and more damage) on my wolf like I used to before DK rework... but I can't when a non-corro whip can easily land for 15-18k on a crit and a corro whip can near take my entire health bar with 27k.

Even if I did build less health anyway, my heals across the board become worse in PvE and PvP in just about every way (because nothing scales off of anything but max health for werewolf essentially and the one heal that does- heals for 20% less than a breath of life on tooltip and causes me to take up to an additional 12% damage while its ‘buff’ is up)

Every other class has access to 'easy' defensive buffs like minor protection (I have to lose significant damage with my roar morph to access), minor resolve (which wolf is incapable of gaining), major protection from Monomyth (which I am incapable of properly using due to bugs especially; can never gain both components), sword and board backbar (which I cannot access without tanking my damage even further; I don't receive all defense passives from this), and much more.

Meanwhile, if I want to recoup more damage from my 'damage healing howl', I essentially use a heal that provides no meaningful healing value (even if I stack nothing but stam and wep/spell damage sets; definitely not enough to outheal 15-27k whips depending on setting) and up to a 12% increase in damage taken. Werewolf berserker (as mentioned) completely forgoes my major protection as well and my overarching reward for an 'even' major buff is a 1 second, highly unforgiving dot.

These are mediums of defense (and offense via buffs) that everyone is able to adhere to that I am fully excluded from on a werewolf.

I get that you have disdain for werewolf, but please try to be logical and objective to at least what I'm clearly stating above. 'Being 1 bar' doesn't magically provide me some intangible benefit that makes up for these glaring deficiencies that the current, efficient PTS stat spread disallows appropriate remediation on.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

LordDragonSlayer wrote: »

Most WWs have about 15 to 18k mag and stamina and about 40 to 44k health. With these new numbers they will be out of resources in seconds. They do not have burst damage

I think that' the point and what ZOS was going for. If you choose to build with that little bit of resource pools, you'll now suffer the consequences like everyone else that does. 15k to 18k mag and stamina and that much of a lopsided build would be bad anywhere in the game, esp. in a PvP environment except on certain "special" builds.

That it wasn't before actually proves that the costs were too low in the first place regardless of what you or the others that enjoyed paying next to nothing for skills without any investment want to claim.

That's why they did it. Because putting the requirement to either build sustain or get good enough not to have to do it will put a limit and cap on the defensive or offensive power that's possible with your build. Which is the cap that everyone except DK abides by (though even DK needs to build into resource pools, though again, there's other builds possible that can bypass it).

The probability of you convincing them is likely 0. Skill costs should have never been that low in the first place. Literally proving that sustain was previously far too easy and ignorable with that comment, not that anyone here didn't know so already.

You don't 'suffer the consequences'. You just run sorc and potentially Arteum and you're set. In a '1 v 1' dueling parse or 'on a practice dummy', nothing meaningfully changes in these scenarios, even post-nerf. Even still, the stamina values from your own perspective do not make sense with PTS werewolf either.

I want to build 30k health on my wolf like I used to before DK rework... but I can't when a non-corro whip can easily land for 15-18k on a crit and a corro whip can near take my entire health bar with 27k. Even if I wanted to build less health, my heals across the board become worse in PvE and PvP in just about every way.

Every other class has access to 'easy' defensive buffs like minor protection (I have to lose significant damage with my roar morph to access), minor resolve (which wolf is incapable of gaining), major protection from Monomyth (which I am incapable of properly using due to bugs especially; can never gain both components), sword and board backbar (which I cannot access without tanking my damage even further; I don't receive all defense passives from this), and much more.

Meanwhile, if I want to recoup more damage from my 'damage healing howl', I essentially use a heal that provides no meaningful healing value (even if I stack nothing but stam and wep/spell damage sets; definitely not enough to outheal 15-27k whips depending on setting) and up to a 12% increase in damage taken. Werewolf berserker (as mentioned) completely forgoes my major protection as well and my overarching reward for an 'even' major buff is a 1 second, highly unforgiving dot.

These are mediums of defense (and offense via buffs) that everyone is able to adhere to that I am fully excluded from on a werewolf.

I get that you have disdain for werewolf, but please try to be logical and objective to at least what I'm clearly stating above. 'Being 1 bar' doesn't magically provide me some intangible benefit that makes up for these glaring deficiencies that the current, efficient PTS stat spread disallows appropriate remediation on.

You are saying to be logical and “objective” but every one of these issues that you are claiming are *relative* to DK. Dk doing 20k whips is unacceptable, yes. But do not base ww balance on something as bizarrely overpowered as DK. Ww is relatively more powerful than just about every class other than dk and maybe sorc.

Leaving WW aside for a minute, it’s quite sad for PvE that templars lose out on the few buffs they provided group. While 3k armor seems adequate, it’s a mitigation buff and therefore not really sought after. It would be less offensive on DKs who already provide major berserk with huge uptimes, leaving a space for a templar in a trial group comp. Or give templars a different offensive buff as suggested by other folks?

Also sorc giving 3k pen to the whole group without doing much (casting any skill really) feels like a huge amount. Sorc tanks already feel pretty meta in end-game PvE groups, looking at logs they’re very over-represented. Compare that pen to 1-piece light armor or Wood Elf giving 950 or Cristal Weapons giving 1k for 5s (x2 stacks IIRC) or a set bonus giving ~1.5k. This isn’t even a debuff on enemies, so it’s stronger than an entire 5-piece set that has roughly the same value (Crimson Oath) and that has a cooldown, and range, etc. I know Breach/Resolve have symmetrical values but I think in this case 3k pen vs. 3k armor is really different, just take into account that its 16% of the 18k cap vs 9% of the 33k cap. I think 1-2k pen is already a game-changer for organised groups. So give 6k armor to the armor buff? Or tone down pen to something in the 1-1.5k range?

(Also by the same rationale I think Khajiit giving 6 medium armor pieces’ worth of crit is massively disproportionate to Wood Elf giving 1 light armor piece worth of pen, but that’s a different topic.)

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks that elemental susceptibility deserved a rework instead of a nerf? Would've been way cooler if it was a skill that increases the dmg done of the damage type of your staff alongside applying its native status effect once every 4 seconds. Since it would live up to the weakness to elements name.

I think it definitely does deserve a full rework, but as an interim measure, adding a cost isn't a terrible option

The Insatiable Hunger rules are terrible and make it hard to function and use the ultimate in combat. Remove these rules or return to the old werewolf timer system.

Get rid of these. 👎

Put 3 unique stipulations on the synergy in addition to their regular stipulations (looking at a consumable corpse, etc)

The caster is at or below 66% Health
OR the caster is at or below 200 Ultimate
OR the caster is out of combat

EnochianWing wrote: »

Hexys wrote: »

DK Wings can't give 50% projectile mitigation flat for 6 seconds.
- Make it like ball of lightning to mitigate 100% on 1 projectile, or just keep it 6 seconds and change it to 10-15% mitigation. DK's are unkillable for any ranged build.

Also regarding PvP balance, diversity is broken, anything melee is overshadowed by DK, it makes the game so boring because any theorycrafting for other classes is just 'meh'.
- Keep DK class masteries to 2/5 and change any other class to allow for 3 or 4 class masteries
- Disable class masteries in ww form

Easy and simple

This could actually be helpful until other classes are brought up. Or just turn off the class masteries for DK and only give it to the classes that have not had their refresh yet.

Also , who the *** was in charge of the Templars. Who thought nerfing them more was a good Idea?

and i mean turn the passives off in PVP areas for DK and the same for all classes that get the refresh UNTIL they are all refreshed.

Regarding Werewolf changes:

I am not an expert.... but I just keep thinking.... Why you decided to go though all that hassle with calculating how much to reduce each value, cost, dmg healing etc instead of doing something much simpler. I mean, wouldn’t it be wiser to just target-nerf the 2 specific Werewolf PvP builds instead of panic-nerfing every single value slider WW has ? Cuz this is how it feel like. Like a blind panic, lets reduce the values way, way down, cuz the speakers are shorting out and the audio is way too loud and we don't know where it is shorting, so for the good measure, just in case, lets set the volume on every channel at 2%.. I mean I am sorry to sound like this, but this is how it feels like.

The 2 specific Werewolf PvP builds that are the source of all of those feedback to nerf WW till it transforms back, are Sorcerer & Warden Class mastery passives - Mainly Conservation of Energy, Wild Adaptation and Green-Keeper's Hide.

Now, look, you have already added a lot of "save guards" to for example NB's class mastery passives. A lot of the have "Effect is halved while battle spirit is on" type of thing.

So why not add something similar to Sorc & Warden class mastery passives so they would basically do not stack with WW ? Something simple like "this effect is halved while under the effect of transformations", or "this effect does not work under the effect of transformations" etc. So that it would still work in PvE & PvP on almost all of the builds but it would not make WW super strong.

See ? Less work, less calculations, less collateral damage, minimal nerf, but only where it matters and most other things remain playable.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden needs a double barred 5 piece set, 5 different damage types (one of the has to be bleed), and charged enchantments on both bars to get 1665 weapon damage and 15% mitigation.

Dragonknight needs to be in combat for a while to get 20% damage done and mitigation.

Balance.

If it is DK then it is balanced, there are people asking for DK buffs lol, guess i will just play for storyline and RP until a better MMO appear

Since most classes haven’t received many balance changes, I thought I’d offer some general feedback on a few classes instead.

Dragonknight

• While I realise that the class is really good in PvP, it's regarded as the worst damage dealer in PvE. Hence, I think that it would be great if the class would receive some buffs.
• Perhaps skills that aren't used much in PvP - such as Burning Talons - could be buffed, for example?
• Or maybe the Landslide passive could build stacks faster when Battle Spirit isn't active and/ or increase your damage done to monsters by an additional 1% per stack or something?

Templar

• Templars are lackluster damage dealers as well. They parse lower than Sorcerers, Necromancers and Nightblades, for example, and don't benefit from buffs such as Martial Knife and Morag Tong as much as Necromancers and Nightblades either (which makes the Templar fall behind even more in optimized groups).
• Therefore, I think it'd be great if their damage focused Class Mastery passives would be buffed a bit during this PTS cycle. This would also be nice for solo Templars that will deal less than they do now, considering they'll lose Minor Sorcery and don't gain Minor Brutality from an ally to make up for it.
• Aside from that, the Templar's sustain is pretty bad as well. I'd personally love it it was improved in some way. Maybe the Restoring Spirit passive could reduce the cost of abilities some more, for example? Or maybe proccing the Judgement's Brand passive could also restore X Magicka or Stamina or something?

Nightblade

• While it's unarguably in a good state for PvE DPS already, I personally think that it would be nice if underwhelming skills such as Twisting Path would be buffed a bit as well.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Regarding Werewolf changes:

I am not an expert.... but I just keep thinking.... Why you decided to go though all that hassle with calculating how much to reduce each value, cost, dmg healing etc instead of doing something much simpler. I mean, wouldn’t it be wiser to just target-nerf the 2 specific Werewolf PvP builds instead of panic-nerfing every single value slider WW has ? Cuz this is how it feel like. Like a blind panic, lets reduce the values way, way down, cuz the speakers are shorting out and the audio is way too loud and we don't know where it is shorting, so for the good measure, just in case, lets set the volume on every channel at 2%.. I mean I am sorry to sound like this, but this is how it feels like.

The 2 specific Werewolf PvP builds that are the source of all of those feedback to nerf WW till it transforms back, are Sorcerer & Warden Class mastery passives - Mainly Conservation of Energy, Wild Adaptation and Green-Keeper's Hide.

Now, look, you have already added a lot of "save guards" to for example NB's class mastery passives. A lot of the have "Effect is halved while battle spirit is on" type of thing.

So why not add something similar to Sorc & Warden class mastery passives so they would basically do not stack with WW ? Something simple like "this effect is halved while under the effect of transformations", or "this effect does not work under the effect of transformations" etc. So that it would still work in PvE & PvP on almost all of the builds but it would not make WW super strong.

See ? Less work, less calculations, less collateral damage, minimal nerf, but only where it matters and most other things remain playable.

I just did the rough math for CoE for another post. I never really thought about how much it was actually providing.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

With just 20.9k stam and 18.6k magicka, CoE is granting me 418 stamina and 372 magicka per skill cast which is the maximum equivalent of (418x2) 836 stamina recovery and (372x2) 744 magicka recovery in PvP off of a single passive.

Yurr.

You should swap the DK and NB class passives.

The Dragonknight Elder Dragon passive should grant Minor Savagery and the Nightblade Hemorrhage passive should grant Minor Brutality.

With all of these changes to Stealth and Invisibility, please just give Nightblades our old Shadowy Disguise back!

If you want one with a toggle that costs Magicka when you move for PvE, then get rid of the current Dark Cloak and make the toggle version called Dark Cloak while Shadowy Disguise goes back to what it was pre-toggle.

I'd suggest having Swallow Soul and Funnel Health heal the same target count but, have the healing duration on Swallow Soul be shorter and the cost be lower.

That way you'd pick Swallow Soul if you wanted to spam the ability and Funnel Health if you wanted to use it occasionally.

As it functions currently, you'd pick Swallow Soul only if you wanted to be sure you healed yourself or couldn't sustain Funnel Health. That isn't really an exciting decision.

With the changes to stealth, could we maybe get Empower and Major Brutality while sneaking as well as a bonus to Dual Wielding Heavy Attack damage while sneaking?

It doesn't feel really stealthy having to cast something to get Empower/Major Brutality before attacking something.

Dual Wielding Heavy Attacks do horrible burst damage and the Dual Wielding line doesn't really have any active abilities that good single hit damage that you can use instead.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ioResult wrote: »

You should swap the DK and NB class passives.

The Dragonknight Elder Dragon passive should grant Minor Savagery and the Nightblade Hemorrhage passive should grant Minor Brutality.

The whole original concept is NB to be crit based burst damager and DK a DoT based one. Those should not swap, this goes against the themes of both classes.

Tell me you PvE without telling me you PvE.

Crit is useless in PvP when everyone is wearing Rallying Cry so they have absurd Crit Resistance.

So get rid of Rallying Cry and everything else that gives stupid crit resist and maybe Nightblade mains in PvP might agree with you. Otherwise we'll take more damage where DKs slapping people with 20K whips in PvP don't need any more damage.

The new Insatiable Hunger Proc conditions:

I did solo content by myself, mainly black rose prison first stage fight repeatedly to test, and i found it much, much harder to maintain the werewolf form compared to before.

I constantly hovered around 200 ult, only going above when in rampage form because i was in combat all the time and my health never dropped below the treshold so the only way to regain ult with insatiable Hunger was when i was at or below 200 ult.

I think this change would make maintaining ww form difficult in some scenarios such as long scripted fights without a lot of mobs dying constantly where you could take the opportunity to use the synergy before as the opportunity presented itself and now you cant.

I also fear this change would be terrible for pvp because of the very common stuck in combat bug or even if it works as intended. Imagine some one in your group is fighting some 200 metres away and you find yourself in a situation with 250 ult and a corpse in front of you? You cant use Insatiable Hunger to restore ult and make your way over to the fight, you dont meet the conditions, and making your way over at half ult with the ult draining would have you reach the fight at below 100 ult with only seconds remaining to stay in werewolf form. It is, im afraid, a pretty bad quality of life change even when it works as intended.

I understand that the problem that was trying to be solved is the synergy popping up constantly and making other synergies hard to come by. In that case please give Insatiable Hunger the lowest prioriity so other synergies are always appears when available.

Thank you