New Community Input Dashboards

Maitsukas · August 4

The numbers that are after the second drop-down menu categories are not visible on a white background:

Umbracat449 · August 4

You might like to give some examples of what is a pain point vs feedback and suggestions, as I already can't see much difference between many of the posts of each board.

A bug is a bug, that should be clear....

Destai · August 4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

xencthlu wrote: »

This isn't going to be the only way bugs get fixed going forward, right? Because there's still a plethora of base game quests that hard lock if done in a group, reported and never fixed, and they're not likely to get a bunch of upvotes in a popularity contest for most important bugs to fix, because long term, invested players don't usually need to do base game quest content anymore. But it's still important these bugs get fixed, because we want the players doing base game quests to eventually become long term, invested players.

No, this will not be the only way bugs get fixed going forward. We still use the in-game /bug reports, forums, etc. This is just one more avenue, and gives us a better view into the ones that are causing the most friction, as voted by the community. If a bug is not reported on this board and/or not upvoted, that doesn't mean it isn't getting fixed.

I do want to echo what @spartaxoxo said. I worry about a herding effect on some of the earlier submissions - whereby those with a lot of votes float to the top and get even more votes. If something can be done about those biases, that would be appreciated.

There's also value in knowing your adoption criteria. Like, would a lower-vote, lower complexity suggestion be adopted before a more popular but complex suggestion?

Destai · August 4

Umbracat449 wrote: »

You might like to give some examples of what is a pain point vs feedback and suggestions, as I already can't see much difference between many of the posts of each board.

A bug is a bug, that should be clear....

Agreed. I think it should be a binary - bug or feedback. I can't imagine people are going to come here to give ZOS a kudos on something.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · August 4

Maitsukas wrote: »

The numbers that are after the second drop-down menu categories are not visible on a white background:

Thank you for reporting this! We're asking the developer to make a color adjustment on those numbers.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · August 4

Destai wrote: »

I do want to echo what @spartaxoxo said. I worry about a herding effect on some of the earlier submissions - whereby those with a lot of votes float to the top and get even more votes. If something can be done about those biases, that would be appreciated.

There's also value in knowing your adoption criteria. Like, would a lower-vote, lower complexity suggestion be adopted before a more popular but complex suggestion?

We can adjust the default ordering to "New" if that's widely preferred by the community. We did chat with the developer about this and they indicated they don't tend to see a ton of difference in votes based on default ordering, but we're happy to give it a try. Users are also able to adjust the order preferences on their end as well, and the board will remember that choice.

As for adoption criteria, it's going to depends on a few factors including how complex something is, needed resource bandwidth and availability, overall scope and impact, etc. Something that is lower complexity but also has a low potential positive scope and impact is unlikely to get prioritized over something that is moderately complex but has a high potential positive scope and impact, for example.

Destai · August 4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I do want to echo what @spartaxoxo said. I worry about a herding effect on some of the earlier submissions - whereby those with a lot of votes float to the top and get even more votes. If something can be done about those biases, that would be appreciated.

There's also value in knowing your adoption criteria. Like, would a lower-vote, lower complexity suggestion be adopted before a more popular but complex suggestion?

We can adjust the default ordering to "New" if that's widely preferred by the community. We did chat with the developer about this and they indicated they don't tend to see a ton of difference in votes based on default ordering, but we're happy to give it a try. Users are also able to adjust the order preferences on their end as well, and the board will remember that choice.

As for adoption criteria, it's going to depends on a few factors including how complex something is, needed resource bandwidth and availability, overall scope and impact, etc. Something that is lower complexity but also has a low potential positive scope and impact is unlikely to get prioritized over something that is moderately complex but has a high potential positive scope and impact, for example.

That's good to know. Thanks!

As this process matures, can we get like an adoptability rating? Like once a month or whatever interval works, can we get a review with those ratings? Knowing what's better received and adoptable should make future suggestions more valuable. I don't want to be process over-engineering here, just brainstorming ideas.

This is really good though, very pleased to see this.

DeathandDebauchery · August 4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I do want to echo what @spartaxoxo said. I worry about a herding effect on some of the earlier submissions - whereby those with a lot of votes float to the top and get even more votes. If something can be done about those biases, that would be appreciated.

There's also value in knowing your adoption criteria. Like, would a lower-vote, lower complexity suggestion be adopted before a more popular but complex suggestion?

We can adjust the default ordering to "New" if that's widely preferred by the community. We did chat with the developer about this and they indicated they don't tend to see a ton of difference in votes based on default ordering, but we're happy to give it a try. Users are also able to adjust the order preferences on their end as well, and the board will remember that choice.

As for adoption criteria, it's going to depends on a few factors including how complex something is, needed resource bandwidth and availability, overall scope and impact, etc. Something that is lower complexity but also has a low potential positive scope and impact is unlikely to get prioritized over something that is moderately complex but has a high potential positive scope and impact, for example.

I dont think its necessary to start the sort by "new" but I do think there should be some type of way to make sure new items are highlighted (maybe a stream of the top 10 newest, or "new this week" tab?) and/or once an item is 'responded' to it no longer needs votes. Basically - some way to make sure that new ideas dont get lost in the sauce!

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 4

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I think its always difficult when it comes to upvoted feature dashboards like this because a large community can unusually skew the results.

Lets say a certain community has 100 active members and they decide they want to suggest something and all upvote it, thats likely are large % of the overall dashboard users (because most players will never engage with such features) but its a very small % of the overall playerbase.

If you look at Runescape they have moved such features to be 'in game' so that players can actively take part in voting on things whilst in the game which has been more successful.

The other issue is that often players don't know what is actually good for them, and showing the upvote numbers can lead to an impression of 'Well people voted for this so why hasn't it been done' when it could just be that its a really bad suggestion and just a popular one.

Sidewaves89 · August 4

How can I reach Feedback & Suggestions and Bugs & Pain Points pages from elderscrollsonline.com website?

DenverRalphy · August 4

I think people are reading too much into this. It's a tool for the dev teams to observe player opinion as guidance. It's not a mechanism for players to dictate which direction the game goes, or what the developers will do next. The devs and the design teams still decide internally which direction they will go. Hordes of players can upvote any idea they wish, no problem. But developers and project management can still look at them and say "yeah... that ain't happenin" if they deem it's not good for the game, or siimply just not important enough to supercede something else.

Arunei · August 4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I do want to echo what @spartaxoxo said. I worry about a herding effect on some of the earlier submissions - whereby those with a lot of votes float to the top and get even more votes. If something can be done about those biases, that would be appreciated.

There's also value in knowing your adoption criteria. Like, would a lower-vote, lower complexity suggestion be adopted before a more popular but complex suggestion?

We can adjust the default ordering to "New" if that's widely preferred by the community. We did chat with the developer about this and they indicated they don't tend to see a ton of difference in votes based on default ordering, but we're happy to give it a try. Users are also able to adjust the order preferences on their end as well, and the board will remember that choice.

As for adoption criteria, it's going to depends on a few factors including how complex something is, needed resource bandwidth and availability, overall scope and impact, etc. Something that is lower complexity but also has a low potential positive scope and impact is unlikely to get prioritized over something that is moderately complex but has a high potential positive scope and impact, for example.

Please do try listing submissions by New, because otherwise we have to scroll through a drove of older ones. As more and more submissions are added, scrolling through them all to reach the new ones is going to take longer and longer and may result in people not seeing them because they don't want to go through the hassle.

I do also think maaaaybe there should be a basic guideline of what is a painpoint and what is a suggestion/feedback, as currently a number of the submissions in the former board feel like they should be in the latter.

AcadianPaladin · August 4

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

How can I reach Feedback & Suggestions and Bugs & Pain Points pages from elderscrollsonline.com website?

The best I can figure out for now is to go to this thread's first post where Jessica provides a link to each. I'd like to see a less cumbersome way to get there though.

jle30303 · August 4

What good are these things when there are *existing* reports, from the existing methods of reporting, that haven't been addressed for literal years?

This strikes me as "hey, we're putting up another set of boards because you're not satisfied with the fact that we're not actually looking at and dealing with the issues raised on the first set".

BretonMage · August 4

I'm not sure if those boards remember my votes, but if I leave and return to them, I don't see any of my upvoted votes. I don't know if this is just a visual bug but I thought I'd mention it.

Editing again: actually no, I wasn't mistaken, a few of my votes do appear to have been forgotten. Possibly a cookie issue, as AzuraFan said.

AzuraFan · August 4

BretonMage wrote: »

I'm not sure if those boards remember my votes, but if I leave and return to them, I don't see any of my upvoted votes. I don't know if this is just a visual bug but I thought I'd mention it.

I see mine. Maybe it depends on cookie settings (or something else).

allochthons · August 4

I really like this idea too. It would be nice to see it pointed to in game somehow.

I think I'm glad we can comment on existing items, but one I clicked on already has someone saying

And what is your proposed solution for this "problem"?

I don't know how to prevent this new tool from becoming a new trolling platform, but it should be thought about. ETA: I don't see a way to report comments.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · August 4

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I think people are reading too much into this. It's a tool for the dev teams to observe player opinion as guidance. It's not a mechanism for players to dictate which direction the game goes, or what the developers will do next. The devs and the design teams still decide internally which direction they will go. Hordes of players can upvote any idea they wish, no problem. But developers and project management can still look at them and say "yeah... that ain't happenin" if they deem it's not good for the game, or siimply just not important enough to supercede something else.

Thank you for this, @DenverRalphy! This is a good way to look at this, and you are correct. This is one additional input tool for us, and (hopefully) gives you all greater visibility into not only what the collective community who engages with these boards is indicating is most important, but also why we may or may not be able to do something, and any statuses and comments we provide to each. We recognize that parsing through and looking for that info can be challenging on the forums and Reddit. Will this be the only input we consider? No, absolutely not. We consider many inputs including data from the game, forums, Reddit, Discord, social media, and now these boards. Where these boards are unique is community agency to vote on what is most important to you, being able to see how the community is voting, and clear (once we start adding them) status tags.

allochthons · August 4

.
solved by Jessica below.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · August 4

allochthons wrote: »

I really like this idea too. It would be nice to see it pointed to in game somehow.

I think I'm glad we can comment on existing items, but one I clicked on already has someone saying

And what is your proposed solution for this "problem"?

I don't know how to prevent this new tool from becoming a new trolling platform, but it should be thought about. ETA: I don't see a way to report comments.

So, every single new submission and comment must be reviewed and approved by a human (either me, Amy, or Kevin, currently.) If we see a comment that is extremely non-constructive or clearly trolling, we won't approve it. In that specific case, I do think it's fair to ask someone who submitted a topic what they envision as the ideal solution. Is the word "problem" being in quotes a bit divisive? Probably, but it's minor.

allochthons · August 4

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

So, every single new submission and comment must be reviewed and approved by a human (either me, Amy, or Kevin, currently.) If we see a comment that is extremely non-constructive or clearly trolling, we won't approve it.

Oh, okay. I leave it in your capable hands, then! Thanks for the response.
(Stupid text. That is sincere, not sarcastic.)

Hamfast · August 4

First off, I really like the idea of this set of Tools/Boards, whatever you want to call them.

As with any of these forums, the first entry will get more attention... It would be nice if we could decide if we wanted to see the newest, or the most popular entry (Default to new if you like, but allow us to order by popularity).

I also think it would be good if there could be a flag, as we have on these forums, to mark when an entry drew an official response, and perhaps one for a negative response from another member of the community (hopefully or requiring a comment on why it was not that good of an idea).

UrQuan · August 4

jle30303 wrote: »

What good are these things when there are *existing* reports, from the existing methods of reporting, that haven't been addressed for literal years?

This strikes me as "hey, we're putting up another set of boards because you're not satisfied with the fact that we're not actually looking at and dealing with the issues raised on the first set".

Existing methods don't make it easy for them to see how much community support different issues/ideas have. This does. This makes it much easier for them to prioritize and address things than the existing methods, where they have no clear quantifiable way of telling how much something actually matters to the overall community. This is a much, much better way of finding out what the players really want.

Hamfast · August 4

I see the order is already selectable, please disregard that point.

allochthons · August 4

Time, perhaps, for those of us who engaged with
Dev Team Request: A Top 5 List of Bugs and Pain Points You Would Like Addressed
to go back through there and pull out what we posted, and move them to the new system?

ESO_player123 · August 4

Is it just me or you can vote multiple times in different browsers/different devices? For example, I see that my vote is remembered on Chrome, but not on Firefox on the same device. So, without logging in people will be able to push for favorite suggestions to go up.

DeathandDebauchery · August 4

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

ESO_player123 · August 4

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

That is exactly what I'm talking about in my post above. I was absolutely surprised today that the Polish language topic rose to the top so quickly.

And that is in addition to the fact that these links will be visited only by a tiny fraction of the number of people that play the game.

Umbracat449 · August 4

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

Please don't make login required, and 263 votes isn't a game changer. Glad to see a strong community around an idea, hope i find one for my suggestion.

This whole thing cant be about preventing ideas, it has to be about possibilities.

ESO_player123 · August 4

Umbracat449 wrote: »

DeathandDebauchery wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can already see the impact of communities spamming their specific issue, I absolutely appreciate that there is a strong polish community in ESO, but there was clearly a concerted effort here to pump this issue already:

,

Perhaps make logging in required in order to vote, and log-ins tied to votes, one vote per issue per account? This feels pretty easily manipulatable right now.

Please don't make login required, and 263 votes isn't a game changer. Glad to see a strong community around an idea, hope i find one for my suggestion.

This whole thing cant be about preventing ideas, it has to be about possibilities.

The poll allows ANYONE with the link to the poll to vote multiple times. How can this be a good thing? As for possibilites, people can exchage ideas on Reddit/this forum without any polling.