My mixed feelings with the Elemental Susceptibility changes

SirBanana1992 · August 3

For visibility, this is the current change listed for the Elemental Susceptibility morph for week 1 of PTS

Elemental Susceptibility: This morph now has a 3240 Magicka cost, rather than being free, to account for how much stronger status effects have become over time.

I agree that the skill was becoming strong and applying a cost was more than fair. But with the current cost listed I think this will hurt a lot of beginners trying to get into Infinite Archive as it was the most beginner friendly skill to bring into this content and perhaps progressing players as well. I want to address a few points regarding the justification given for this change.

The skill is powerful, but it is not powerful without conditions. For it to be effective players have to pay a "tax" so to say in other parts of their build. They need to have proper class passives, specific sets used like the Shattered Path Signet mythic in order to bring its power up to compete with other options that may have more freedom in how they play.
The skill itself is still a single target only. While strong it falls greatly in cleave potential as opposed to other skills that apply themselves in AoE, such as a scribed elemental explosion or trample.
Outside of Infinite Archive this may make this skill more difficult to provide value to progressing players and characters that are low level and do not have access to any of the tools that give this skill power since it will be a skill with a high cost but very little return.
As mentionned with Infinite Archive, it is the most recommendable skill to introduce someone to the content that may want to grind it for gear

I think the cost needs to be re-looked at, rebalanced, maybe if necessary have a flexible cost that accounts for whether or not the user is using status boosting pieces like having a small cost on its own but having its cost increased by the Shattered Path Signet by turning it from an applied DoT with major breach in effective use to a spammable single target burst. That might allow Infinite Archive itself to let players choose further increasing the power of Elemental Susceptibility at a cost or using its slightly weaker but more sustain effective alternative if just starting out. While new players would not feel a steep cost for a skill that doesn't do as much as the cost suggests it should.

Firstmep · August 3

With crushing weapon being made stronger I don't mind it as much, but I'd like to see for example caltrops looked at as it's significantly weaker than almost any other source. Maybe bump the major breach duration up to match other sources. Same could go for boneyard btw.
I really need a reason to use the bone caltrops skin that takes ages to farm. Xd

acanca · August 3

I think both elemental susceptibility and draugrkins grip mainly got nerfed because of how they were abused with signet but that seems a little bit off mark now that signet is effectively gone from pvp.

I still agree with adding a cost to ele sus but yes, making it cost basically as much as a spammable is a bit much.

As for draugrkin, well i was still abusing it to be honest but i dont think its going to accomplish much since i think it mainly stopped being a problem. I dont mind either way

ArctosCethlenn · August 3

Ele sus has needed a cost for years, even before signet was a potential factor. It should've gained one in the same patch as Mark Target.

Genfe · August 3

I’d also like it dodgeable and reduced to 22m

kilroy5250 · August 3

How about adjusting the SP mythic to apply a cost to status effect skills without a cost. Don't punish all uses.

ceruulean · August 3

The cost is fine. If you want a 0 cost major breach, the Ele Drain morph is available

CalamityCat · August 3

I think this change is absolutely fine and completely fair. I don't feel it hurts anyone to have a cost on this skill. I'm not sure why there is some concern for new characters, because it's entirely normal and reasonable that all skills have a cost.

There isn't a build tax for this skill. Ele sus doesn't demand a specific build to be useful. It's no different to any build where, you would prefer to use specific gear and passives to support the skills and damage types etc you're focusing on. It doesn't make the skills useless if your build isn't maxing out their effectiveness.

SirBanana1992 · August 3

kilroy5250 wrote: »

How about adjusting the SP mythic to apply a cost to status effect skills without a cost. Don't punish all uses.

It's what I touch on in my last paragraph but I'd be more consistent with it and while having a lower base cost on Ele Sus I'd apply the cost increase as a rule for skills that guarantee a status proc/per guaranteed status proc depending on the kind of balancing needed. I'd prefer to leave the skills that only have a chance of a status alone.

tsaescishoeshiner · August 3

Adding a cost is fine, I just think it could get more (not status effect–related) to compensate, such as giving the player a new buff. Or they could have just delayed the status effects by 2 seconds so that it wasn't a spammable.

Outside of being a free spammable and DoT only for status effect builds, both morphs of the skill seem under-budgeted.

ssewallb14_ESO · 12:22AM

I really think this one should be a "while in PvP" nerf. It kind of just nerfs tanks and solo builds using it for Minor Breach with Ice Staff for no reason.

Luneca · 12:26AM

The good news is that it won't make a difference in reality for the most part. But it's a shame ZOS destroyed my recursive one shot build using molten weapons and this skill. I am sad.

Didn't anyone enjoy instantly dying when I got off siege? HA...ah well time to find another recursive build, this time worse than the last.

IZZEFlameLash · 1:00AM

Yeah, it wasn't a free spammable as people made it out to be. It is a good skill but, not really a spammable.

Vaqual · 2:37AM

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Ele sus has needed a cost for years, even before signet was a potential factor. It should've gained one in the same patch as Mark Target.

Yeah, when they made that change is was already extremely aggravating, since the Minor Vuln/Burning/Minor Maim combo was already outclassing the on-kill effects of Mark by a long shot. If you would have told me then, that it would take this long for Ele Sus to at least get a cost attached, I wouldn't have believed it.

But I am glad it finally happened, even though it is just PTS week 1.

Major_Mangle · 6:29AM

Long overdue change, should've been done years ago. Still think the range is too much and should be reduced.

Panderbander · 8:04AM

Lasted a minute, dealt damage, applied minor debuffs, applied a major debuff: free of cost.

Yeah, this was long overdue.

Tannus15 · 8:54AM

Panderbander wrote: »

Lasted a minute, dealt damage, applied minor debuffs, applied a major debuff: free of cost.

Yeah, this was long overdue.

30s, not a minute
if you're not using it as a spammable it's a relatively weak single target dot because the status effects only proc every 7.5s
the damage is all status effects, and as we all know, procs can't proc procs.
major breach is nice

I agree that it needs a cost, i think 3k mag is too high.
at most it should cost the same as a spammable, but honestly i think it should be cheaper, more like ele weapon.

Panderbander · 10:31AM

Tannus15 wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Lasted a minute, dealt damage, applied minor debuffs, applied a major debuff: free of cost.

Yeah, this was long overdue.

30s, not a minute
if you're not using it as a spammable it's a relatively weak single target dot because the status effects only proc every 7.5s
the damage is all status effects, and as we all know, procs can't proc procs.
major breach is nice

I agree that it needs a cost, i think 3k mag is too high.
at most it should cost the same as a spammable, but honestly i think it should be cheaper, more like ele weapon.

I apologize for not correctly remembering the duration while at work. My bad.

Still, 30 seconds with effects every few seconds is wildly strong and 3k seems more than fair, maybe even low.

Tannus15 · 10:39AM

I think it's the most expensive single target dot in the game now?

I haven't checked everything, I looked a few, and most ranged single target dots have a base cost of 2700 compared to 3240 for ele sus.

tomofhyrule · 10:57AM

Ele Sus needed a cost.

It was a free skill that did more damage than any spammable due to the status effect changes, and then it ended up applying decent procs and DoTs from the status effects. That skill was so overloaded for a free skill it’s not even funny.

BahometZ · 11:19AM

Ele sus was only an issue for PvP. Could've given it a cost in PvP areas, or only effects Monsters or any number of specific fixes. But as usual zos can't be bothered trying to balance PvE and PvP separately. And once again PvE getting hammered by PvP issues. And in due fairness to the PvP brothers you get minimal content year after year. I guess we all just suffer at the whims of Zos interns.

Wuuffyy · 11:31AM

Ele sus cost is appropriate.

Force pulse (for example) ends at conception and it deals roughly 10k tooltip on a damage build; 10/10 damage as a ‘ranged spammable’.

Ele Sus applies major breach (just like mark target which has the same/similar cost) and does roughly 6/10 of ranged spammable (so 2/10 for each status effect x3 at a minimum). Now consider it’s doing this once every 6 seconds over another 30 seconds

So you have major breach and then 6/10 of ranged spammable initially, and then another 5 ticks (so 6/10 x 5) which means that over time it is dealing 36/10 damage of a ranged spammable (again, not including lingering burning proc) and applying major breach the same as mark target which has a similar cost.

No, the cost is definitely appropriate

Wuuffyy · 11:34AM

Mark target does less consistently while Ele Sus does so very so much more, even with a standardized cost.

Tonturri · 12:30PM

Maybe 3240 is a smidge too high of a cost, but otherwise I think it's fine. Also not sure where you're getting all the IA stuff - it's perfectly feasible, and in a lot of cases ideal, to run without it since someone can slot a defensive skill or something in its place. It's really only 'vital' in status effect focused IA builds, which while strong in IA (and that's a whole 'nother problem of what builds can and can't go far in IA, and how, but still) is far from a must-have.

I've been running IA recently on sorc, necro, and arcanist and really only ended up using it on boss fights, marauders, and more durable mobs in each wave. It's also used in PvP without the super status effect buffing sets, such as with the vat staff that gives it a DoT. This is a very welcome change there.

Overall I think it'd be better off with a cost in the upper 2000s range, but we'll all survive with the 3200 cost. Maybe I'm just out of touch with recommended IA builds, as I've googled when I first started running it again recently and didn't find much.

Lord_Hev · 12:55PM

This still needs more of a nerf. Need to make sure ice staff backbar meta is no longer meta so we can return to a pvp environment that actually used their backbar for more than just cheap easy defense/buff/heal bar with ease-of-access major breach with additional unavoidable benefits.

Turtle_Bot · 1:11PM

It definitely needed a cost, but over 3k is a bit too much (especially since wall of elements is just under 3k and is full AoE thta can be spammed AoE with the unstable morph).

Making it the same cost as a single target ranged DoT (~2700 iirc) would have sufficed.

Upsides:
Major Breach

Downsides:
Ticks every 7.5 seconds instead of every 2 seconds like most targeted DoTs.

It would be a strong contender as a DoT, and no longer freely spammable, but would lack the consistency for procs and other triggers that other targeted DoTs have with their faster tick rate.

mdjessup4906 · 2:40PM

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I really think this one should be a "while in PvP" nerf. It kind of just nerfs tanks and solo builds using it for Minor Breach with Ice Staff for no reason.

They're apparently reworking battle spirit. Maybe they can remember to use it once in a while.

olsborg · 2:44PM

I think it should be nerfed further and only apply 1 status effect per procc, even just the same type as your staff perhaps.

Turtle_Bot · 4:17PM

olsborg wrote: »

I think it should be nerfed further and only apply 1 status effect per procc, even just the same type as your staff perhaps.

My preferred version of it would be around 1.5k-1.8k cost, only applies the corresponding status effect of the staff equipped that ticks every 4-5 seconds, and Major breach (making it on par with twin slashes for cost, and effect is losing the 2 upfront direct hits and have a twice as slow (or slower) tick rate, but having breach and range instead).