The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 12.1.0 is available.
Maintenance for the week of August 3:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – August 4, 5:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – August 4, 5:00AM EDT (9:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
DK will continue to reign in U51. What a complete disaster
hoangdz
✭✭✭✭✭
Touching DK's Flamelash healing will not solve the core problem of this class.
ZOS, you need to for once listen to the players and NERF CORE OF FLAME AND ITS MORPHS. This one skill alone is letting DK build full damage and defense without a single investment into recovery stats. This one skill is letting DK relentlessly maintain its offensive rotation, whereas before the rework it would have gassed out in 20 seconds. This one skill is letting DK almost permablock without needing the class mastery passive. This one skill is providing more healing than Vigor if a DK builds more HP.
Please, delete the SUSTAIN from CORE OF FLAME and its morph.
Edited by hoangdz on August 3, 2026 7:07PM ZOS, you need to for once listen to the players and NERF CORE OF FLAME AND ITS MORPHS. This one skill alone is letting DK build full damage and defense without a single investment into recovery stats. This one skill is letting DK relentlessly maintain its offensive rotation, whereas before the rework it would have gassed out in 20 seconds. This one skill is letting DK almost permablock without needing the class mastery passive. This one skill is providing more healing than Vigor if a DK builds more HP.
Please, delete the SUSTAIN from CORE OF FLAME and its morph.
16
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Radiate77✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What’s good for the goose… 🪿Dragon Priest [Restoring Light, Draconic Power, Grave Lord]
Death Knight [Grave Lord, Winter’s Embrace, Siphoning]
Pyromancer [Ardent Flame, Dawn’s Wrath, Earthen Heart]
Summoner [Living Death, Grave Lord, Daedric Summoning]
Ranger [Animal Companions, Green Balance, Shadow]
Druid [Earthen Heart, Animal Companions, Stormcalling]
Elementalist [Stormcalling, Winter’s Embrace, Ardent Flame]
Dawnguard [Dawn’s Wrath, Restoring Light, Ardent Flame]0 -
acanca✭✭✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta3 -
I swear bro I just don’t understand the devs they promised things would be different and nothing has changed same pointless changes5
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hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
0 -
acanca✭✭✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
So literally same playing field as every other class and build granted ww nerfs go through and core of flame also gets toned down right?4 -
madmufffin✭✭✭✭✭DK is so oppressive that it's hard to even try and discuss nerfs for other classes. I can't even remember the last sorc I ran into to get annoyed with their sustain. It's always just a dk and then another dk and then another...3
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hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
So literally same playing field as every other class and build granted ww nerfs go through and core of flame also gets toned down right?
We will have to see.0 -
VinnyGambini✭✭✭✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.5 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I guess that the combat balance in this game is.... Decaying...AdonisJorge wrote: »Fear not, WW was nerfed now eveything is fine
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 3, 2026 10:50PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lets make this the most Agreed post in ESO historyXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.
Right, because the drek that you just mentioned there doesn’t change what DK or sorc are doing right now. Or the fact that, if they refuse to nerf DK, and rework further classes to that same level, the horrid sustain situation for werewolf is even worse by default.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 4, 2026 2:51AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!1 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.
It shouldn’t be either. I’m done fighting for any of it anymore.
Take CoE and take CoF out. Let’s get back to the good ol’ days.Wuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!0 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.
Right, because the drek that you just mentioned there doesn’t change what DK or sorc are doing right now. Or the fact that, if they refuse to nerf DK, and rework further classes to that same level, the horrid sustain situation for werewolf is even worse by default.
But this is literally the boat everyone else is in right now? Do you think the mere perspective of a potentially strong rework makes up for years of lackluster gameplay?
And watch your language please.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.
Right, because the drek that you just mentioned there doesn’t change what DK or sorc are doing right now. Or the fact that, if they refuse to nerf DK, and rework further classes to that same level, the horrid sustain situation for werewolf is even worse by default.
But this is literally the boat everyone else is in right now? Do you think the mere perspective of a potentially strong rework makes up for years of lackluster gameplay?
And watch your language please.
Watch my language??? For saying DK?
Anyways, what makes you think everyone wants to remain in the past outside of this forum? Maybe it was okay for CoE to grant decent and easy to achieve sustain (as was polled multiple times over).
Idc anymore though atp. If you’re going to spend the majority of effort balance-wise on 1 spec then you best apply the same horrid, player-ridding logic everywhere. Nerf it all, as you have all very plainly said time and time again.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 4, 2026 3:28AMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!0 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.
Right, because the drek that you just mentioned there doesn’t change what DK or sorc are doing right now. Or the fact that, if they refuse to nerf DK, and rework further classes to that same level, the horrid sustain situation for werewolf is even worse by default.
But this is literally the boat everyone else is in right now? Do you think the mere perspective of a potentially strong rework makes up for years of lackluster gameplay?
And watch your language please.
Watch my language??? For saying DK?
For calling my comment dirt.0 -
Vaqual✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.
Right, because the drek that you just mentioned there doesn’t change what DK or sorc are doing right now. Or the fact that, if they refuse to nerf DK, and rework further classes to that same level, the horrid sustain situation for werewolf is even worse by default.
But this is literally the boat everyone else is in right now? Do you think the mere perspective of a potentially strong rework makes up for years of lackluster gameplay?
And watch your language please.
Watch my language??? For saying DK?
Anyways, what makes you think everyone wants to remain in the past outside of this forum? Maybe it was okay for CoE to grant decent and easy to achieve sustain (as was polled multiple times over).
Idc anymore though atp. If you’re going to spend the majority of effort balance-wise on 1 spec then you best apply the same horrid, player-ridding logic everywhere. Nerf it all, as you have all very plainly said time and time again.
And sorry I have no clue what you mean with the second statement.0 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.
On this we will have to disagree. HOF sustain does need a nerf and so does the sorc class mastery. I’m not saying to remove it but it should be adjusted.
Edited by Alchimiste1 on August 4, 2026 4:40PM3 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.
On this we will have to disagree. HOF should sustain definitely needs a nerf but so does the sorc class mastery. I’m not saying to remove it but it should be adjusted.
It does, and I made an entire thread about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691944/conservation-of-energy-needs-to-be-adjusted-for-the-health-of-the-game#latest
I suggested these:
1) Either remove the interaction with Blood Magic and introduce a fixed heal tooltip upon activating a cost (around 1k - 1.5k) OR making Blood Magic scale off offensive stats only. This ensures that the extreme cases of manipulating this skill are removed, while also providing a decent "heal over time" for people with less experience in PvP
2) Reintroduce the fixed 1k stam and mag value per proc to allow for more fluid game play.
Granted that my suggestions were a while ago during the PTS cycle and things have changed, I still firmly believe that, strictly for sorc, the sustain from Conservation allows for more build diversity, which is a good thing for the class. Sorc has struggled with bar space for a long time and was limited to running a few builds because it had to slot Dark Deal and waste an entire slot. Nerfing the heal would be a much better approach while keeping the build options.
Some people want that entire passive removed though, and I have to disagree with them. But let’s say we did remove the entire passive. I would just switch to Calculated Defense instead and gain 6% WD (100% uptime) and a fat HP scaling shield every time I use a Sorc ability or one with a cast time. I tested this btw and found that my survivability was mostly untouched, while that extra 6% WD let me use 2-3 recovery glyphs anyway. But guess what? Build options became limited because you’d have bar space issues, so Sorc went back to pre u50, just with more tankiness lol.
The most ideal fix for this passive imo would be to make Blood Magic give a fixed heal tooltip (maybe 1.5k per proc) and a fixed stam + mag return. This value can be adjusted.
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EnochianWingSoul ShrivenReduce that % refund in pvp areas, add an upfront cost to hearth and home in PVP areas, and/or turn off the DK passives in PVP until all classes are refreshed then you can turn them on to check the balance (Only classes that are not reworked should be getting the passives in PVP until they all are).0
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Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.
On this we will have to disagree. HOF should sustain definitely needs a nerf but so does the sorc class mastery. I’m not saying to remove it but it should be adjusted.
It does, and I made an entire thread about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691944/conservation-of-energy-needs-to-be-adjusted-for-the-health-of-the-game#latest
I suggested these:
1) Either remove the interaction with Blood Magic and introduce a fixed heal tooltip upon activating a cost (around 1k - 1.5k) OR making Blood Magic scale off offensive stats only. This ensures that the extreme cases of manipulating this skill are removed, while also providing a decent "heal over time" for people with less experience in PvP
2) Reintroduce the fixed 1k stam and mag value per proc to allow for more fluid game play.
Granted that my suggestions were a while ago during the PTS cycle and things have changed, I still firmly believe that, strictly for sorc, the sustain from Conservation allows for more build diversity, which is a good thing for the class. Sorc has struggled with bar space for a long time and was limited to running a few builds because it had to slot Dark Deal and waste an entire slot. Nerfing the heal would be a much better approach while keeping the build options.
Some people want that entire passive removed though, and I have to disagree with them. But let’s say we did remove the entire passive. I would just switch to Calculated Defense instead and gain 6% WD (100% uptime) and a fat HP scaling shield every time I use a Sorc ability or one with a cast time. I tested this btw and found that my survivability was mostly untouched, while that extra 6% WD let me use 2-3 recovery glyphs anyway. But guess what? Build options became limited because you’d have bar space issues, so Sorc went back to pre u50, just with more tankiness lol.
The most ideal fix for this passive imo would be to make Blood Magic give a fixed heal tooltip (maybe 1.5k per proc) and a fixed stam + mag return. This value can be adjusted.
You just want infinite sustain with sorc using streak, dark deal/exchange, and CoE.
That is not healthy gameplay any more than CoF is healthy gameplay. Why is sorc the only in your equation that maintains near-zero risk, high sustain 'for free'?
If anything, they're even the most apt to abuse given they have a multitude of various burst moves that can be comboed for no apparent reason and yet another mastery that heavily rewards them for max-mag stack. There is a reason after all that they are widely considered 'top 3' despite not even being a reworked class.
They should either rework CoE or heavily nerf all health/stam/mag values received as a result of this passive.Edited by Wuuffyy on August 4, 2026 6:55PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-new players, feel free to DM for guidance!2 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Yes bueno. Nerf them both or nerf neither and bring werewolf back up.
No ‘infinite sustain for I but not for you’.
A bizarre negotiation to witness for players of non-reworked classes.
Right, because the drek that you just mentioned there doesn’t change what DK or sorc are doing right now. Or the fact that, if they refuse to nerf DK, and rework further classes to that same level, the horrid sustain situation for werewolf is even worse by default.
But this is literally the boat everyone else is in right now? Do you think the mere perspective of a potentially strong rework makes up for years of lackluster gameplay?
And watch your language please.
Watch my language??? For saying DK?
Anyways, what makes you think everyone wants to remain in the past outside of this forum? Maybe it was okay for CoE to grant decent and easy to achieve sustain (as was polled multiple times over).
Idc anymore though atp. If you’re going to spend the majority of effort balance-wise on 1 spec then you best apply the same horrid, player-ridding logic everywhere. Nerf it all, as you have all very plainly said time and time again.
They did nerf it all, it was called Vengeance and it's ZoS's endgame baby. All these revolving door swings are just for show. They don't listen to us, they listen to the shadows around a table in an ivory tower who say profit > anything.2 -
hoangdz✭✭✭✭✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.
On this we will have to disagree. HOF should sustain definitely needs a nerf but so does the sorc class mastery. I’m not saying to remove it but it should be adjusted.
It does, and I made an entire thread about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691944/conservation-of-energy-needs-to-be-adjusted-for-the-health-of-the-game#latest
I suggested these:
1) Either remove the interaction with Blood Magic and introduce a fixed heal tooltip upon activating a cost (around 1k - 1.5k) OR making Blood Magic scale off offensive stats only. This ensures that the extreme cases of manipulating this skill are removed, while also providing a decent "heal over time" for people with less experience in PvP
2) Reintroduce the fixed 1k stam and mag value per proc to allow for more fluid game play.
Granted that my suggestions were a while ago during the PTS cycle and things have changed, I still firmly believe that, strictly for sorc, the sustain from Conservation allows for more build diversity, which is a good thing for the class. Sorc has struggled with bar space for a long time and was limited to running a few builds because it had to slot Dark Deal and waste an entire slot. Nerfing the heal would be a much better approach while keeping the build options.
Some people want that entire passive removed though, and I have to disagree with them. But let’s say we did remove the entire passive. I would just switch to Calculated Defense instead and gain 6% WD (100% uptime) and a fat HP scaling shield every time I use a Sorc ability or one with a cast time. I tested this btw and found that my survivability was mostly untouched, while that extra 6% WD let me use 2-3 recovery glyphs anyway. But guess what? Build options became limited because you’d have bar space issues, so Sorc went back to pre u50, just with more tankiness lol.
The most ideal fix for this passive imo would be to make Blood Magic give a fixed heal tooltip (maybe 1.5k per proc) and a fixed stam + mag return. This value can be adjusted.
You just want infinite sustain with sorc using streak, dark deal/exchange, and CoE.
That is not healthy gameplay any more than CoF is healthy gameplay. Why is sorc the only in your equation that maintains near-zero risk, high sustain 'for free'?
If anything, they're even the most apt to abuse given they have a multitude of various burst moves that can be comboed for no apparent reason and yet another mastery that heavily rewards them for max-mag stack. There is a reason after all that they are widely considered 'top 3' despite not even being a reworked class.
They should either rework CoE or heavily nerf all health/stam/mag values received as a result of this passive.
Infinite sustain is a stretch lol. Dark Deal only restores 1 pool and and costs another pool to cast, while CoE restores on average 400 off resource and 500-600 main resource per ability cast. The most frequent scenario you'll run into is having 1 pool with very good sustain and 1 pool always low.
I think you really need to play as Sorc and DK to see how much better CoF is compared to CoE if we're strictly speaking about sustain. There's really no contest between the two. I have played both and I found DK sustain to be vastly superior.
As for the burst moves, Curse is extremely unreliable in PvP because it's fixed around a target instead of your character. If you want to burst a group of people and he runs away from the group, your combo is basically screwed. Compare that to CoF + Incinerate which is centered around your character similarly to Deep Fissure, you have a much better burst combo, at least for melee. Not only that, but Curse feels great until you run into a build with cleanses. Now it's both blockable and cleansable, so no bueno. If you had to make me choose between Curse or Fissure/Incinerate, I would choose the latter 2, all the time. In fact, I dropped Curse from my bar in exchange for Contingency solely due to the 2 aforementioned drawbacks.
As for other burst abilities, they are indeed very good, but I don't see them as any different than other classes' (with maybe the exception of Arcanist and Templar because they both have bad offensive rotations). Bound Armaments is a poor man's version of Spectral Bow, and Cfrag is a poor man's version of Flame Lash/Molten Whip. Being ranged, they both suffer tremendously against Spell Wall users or any DK with wings as their damage either gets reflected or cut by half.
The only 2 reasons why you're seeing Sorc in the spot light right now are due to:
1) CoE giving between ~2k-4k permanent HPS (you should know this if you're a WW main), meaning less need to cast Vigor and other heals => less resource drain
2) Font of Power giving ~500-700 extra WD
That extra WD buffs Sorc's damage output significantly, and in combination with CoE doing the heavy lifting for survivability, you have a Sorc that can stay on the offense for significantly longer. In fact, after I created this thread and people were complaining about CoE's sustain, I went ahead and dropped CoE for Calculated Defense. You know what I noticed? It wasn't the sustain that killed me because I already played with sub 1k regen pre-U50. It was the fact that I no longer had access to a free 2k-4k HPS. No more 4k mini burst heal off every bash, roll dodge, or break free. No more 4k burst heal off every ability casted. No more 4k burst heal that made BfB essentially free.
The sustain was never the problem. It was always the free HPS all along.Edited by hoangdz on August 4, 2026 10:03PM2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alchimiste1 wrote: »VinnyGambini wrote: »Wrong skill chief, core of flame
Also lets please add Conservation of Energy to the mix.
No need to go from a dk/ww/sorc meta to sorc only meta
For Sorc nerfing the healing is actually a better move. If you nerf the sustain from conservation sorc will now be stuck with old bars and limited builds. No bueno
Don't be selfish. Both Conservation of Energy (healing AND sustain) and Heart of flame (sustain) must be disbled in PvP.
I'm not being selfish lol. It's one or the other, not both. I have already tested fighing without that passive in PvP and the result was not good.
On this we will have to disagree. HOF should sustain definitely needs a nerf but so does the sorc class mastery. I’m not saying to remove it but it should be adjusted.
It does, and I made an entire thread about it:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691944/conservation-of-energy-needs-to-be-adjusted-for-the-health-of-the-game#latest
I suggested these:
1) Either remove the interaction with Blood Magic and introduce a fixed heal tooltip upon activating a cost (around 1k - 1.5k) OR making Blood Magic scale off offensive stats only. This ensures that the extreme cases of manipulating this skill are removed, while also providing a decent "heal over time" for people with less experience in PvP
2) Reintroduce the fixed 1k stam and mag value per proc to allow for more fluid game play.
Granted that my suggestions were a while ago during the PTS cycle and things have changed, I still firmly believe that, strictly for sorc, the sustain from Conservation allows for more build diversity, which is a good thing for the class. Sorc has struggled with bar space for a long time and was limited to running a few builds because it had to slot Dark Deal and waste an entire slot. Nerfing the heal would be a much better approach while keeping the build options.
Some people want that entire passive removed though, and I have to disagree with them. But let’s say we did remove the entire passive. I would just switch to Calculated Defense instead and gain 6% WD (100% uptime) and a fat HP scaling shield every time I use a Sorc ability or one with a cast time. I tested this btw and found that my survivability was mostly untouched, while that extra 6% WD let me use 2-3 recovery glyphs anyway. But guess what? Build options became limited because you’d have bar space issues, so Sorc went back to pre u50, just with more tankiness lol.
The most ideal fix for this passive imo would be to make Blood Magic give a fixed heal tooltip (maybe 1.5k per proc) and a fixed stam + mag return. This value can be adjusted.
You just want infinite sustain with sorc using streak, dark deal/exchange, and CoE.
That is not healthy gameplay any more than CoF is healthy gameplay. Why is sorc the only in your equation that maintains near-zero risk, high sustain 'for free'?
If anything, they're even the most apt to abuse given they have a multitude of various burst moves that can be comboed for no apparent reason and yet another mastery that heavily rewards them for max-mag stack. There is a reason after all that they are widely considered 'top 3' despite not even being a reworked class.
They should either rework CoE or heavily nerf all health/stam/mag values received as a result of this passive.
Infinite sustain is a stretch lol. Dark Deal only restores 1 pool and and costs another pool to cast, while CoE restores on average 400 off resource and 500-600 main resource per ability cast. The most frequent scenario you'll run into is having 1 pool with very good sustain and 1 pool always low.
I think you really need to play as Sorc and DK to see how much better CoF is compared to CoE if we're strictly speaking about sustain. There's really no contest between the two. I have played both and I found DK sustain to be vastly superior.
As for the burst moves, Curse is extremely unreliable in PvP because it's fixed around a target instead of your character. If you want to burst a group of people and he runs away from the group, your combo is basically screwed. Compare that to CoF + Incinerate which is centered around your character similarly to Deep Fissure is a much better burst combo, at least for melee. Not only that, but Curse feels great until you run into a build with cleanses. Now it's both blockable and cleansable, no bueno. If you had to make me choose between Curse and Fissure or Incinerate, I would choose the latter 2, all the time. In fact, I dropped Curse from my bar in exchange for Contingency solely due to the 2 aforementioned drawbacks.
As for other burst abilities, they are indeed very good, but I don't see them as any different than other classes' (with maybe the exception of Arcanist and Templar because they both have bad offensive rotations). Bound Armaments is a poor man's version of Spectral Bow, and Cfrag is a poor man's version of Flame Lash. Being ranged, they both suffer tremendously against Spell Wall users or any DK with wings as their damage gets reflected or cut by half.
The only 2 reasons why you're seeing Sorc in the spot light right now are due to:
1) CoE giving between ~2k-4k permanent HPS (you should know this if you're a WW main), meaning less need to cast Vigor and other heals => less resource drain
2) Font of Power giving ~500-700 extra WD
That extra WD buffs Sorc's damage output significantly, and in combination with CoE doing the heavy lifting for survivability, you have a Sorc that can stay on the offense for significantly longer. In fact, after I created this thread and people were complaining about CoE's sustain, I went ahead and dropped CoE for Calculated Defense. You know what I noticed? It wasn't the sustain that killed me because I already play with sub 1k regen pre-U50. It was the fact that I no longer had access to a free 2k-4k HPS. No more 4k mini burst heal off every bash, roll dodge, or break free. No more 4k burst heal off every ability casted. No more 4k burst heal that made BfB essentially free.
The sustain was never the problem. It was always the free HPS all along.
With just 20.9k stam and 18.6k magicka, CoE is granting me 418 stamina and 372 magicka per skill cast which is the maximum equivalent of (418x2) 836 stamina recovery and (372x2) 744 magicka recovery in PvP off of a single passive.
With just 30k in a resource, those numbers are easily increased by 50% or greater. (so the equivalent of 1200 stamina recovery with just 30k stam)
That is the exact same type of not healthy as CoF. The only difference is, sorc can also streak very far away with a shield up and spam dark deal (which also procs this) in addition to that.
That's ridiculousEdited by Wuuffyy on August 4, 2026 9:41PMWuuffyy,
'end-game' PvE and PvP player
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
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