Werewolf obliterated while DK remains! Everyone Rejoice!

acanca · August 3

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

XVestigeXx wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Who said is a good idea to nerf WW and not nerf DK? What a terrible decision even for a PTS, i liked a lot the buff to Nightblade but buff all other classes too. You are killing WW, Mag WW even worse (Bretons and High Elf exists), you are making eveyone use Sorcerers for having any chance to sustain on the game. We will see only DKs if things continue like that

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Who said is a good idea to nerf WW and not nerf DK? What a terrible decision even for a PTS, i liked a lot the buff to Nightblade but buff all other classes too. You are killing WW, Mag WW even worse (Bretons and High Elf exists), you are making eveyone use Sorcerers for having any chance to sustain on the game. We will see only DKs if things continue like that

DKs are more easy to kill. WW was way too oppressive vs any other class other than a dk or maybe a sorc. This needed to happen because ww was WAAAAAY too strong in pvp. DK is OP too and needs nerfs since the class rework is not going to be finished for years now. I don't play DK, I am a stamblade main and this change is fantastic to hear! WWs will no longer be so disruptive which is a great change imo.

Werewolf will disappear just like y'all wanted! YAY!!! That's why we receive a whole page of nerfs compared to DKs 3 sentences and you're over here like 'they got what was coming to them'.

Yippee! Rejoice!!

They did get what was coming to them. WW made PvP infinitely less fun compared to DK. DK in my experience is a lot more deliberate in surviving than wws. WW you would just go gas gas gas until you were hit by a full 30k-35k burst at which point you would block and roll dodge to the moon and back, howl and heal back to full in about 1GCD and then resume going full dmg without letting up whatsover with easy proc dmg. WW needed this nerf and I will shout that from the rooftops for ZOS to hear because this is good for the game

I'll be honest i abuse ww extensively and yeah, we can 100% do that. We can probably still just steamroll lesser classes after the nerfs as is but might have to dedicate a part of our build to sustain even if we abuse sorc class mastery.

Honestly i dont think the sustain will be too much of an issue still on sorc ww.

Well, shame about ww builds on other classes tho, probably not going to be that viable. They were hard to make work as is.

Firstmep · August 3

To be fair it does make rampage significantly more important now, previously it didn't feel as impactful. I wish they focused more on the insane values of the hp scaling heals instead, but fewer wolves out there will be a breath of fresh air regardless.

Wuuffyy · August 3

Firstmep wrote: »

To be fair it does make rampage significantly more important now, previously it didn't feel as impactful. I wish they focused more on the insane values of the hp scaling heals instead, but fewer wolves out there will be a breath of fresh air regardless.

I mean... I still have to stack health for survivability at the expense of everything else. I still can't leverage my wep/spell damage for anything meaningful in PvP (ZOS, I STILL CAN'T RUN 30K HEALTH AS A DK WILL INSTA-KILL ME, DON'T TAKE THIS AS A REASON TO DO SOMETHING DRASTIC) and you're essentially forcing every non-wolf sorc to now be... a sorc.

You'll be back here asking for nerfs the 1st time you die to a wolf post-patch (or someone like you).

twing1_ · August 3

The werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the playstyle.

The real problem lies with how class passive and mastery skills are synergizing with werewolf form.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain via conservation of energy and free damage via static reverberation.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

It really is a shame how much pushback the suggestion of disabling class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form got from the werewolf community because "werewolf nerf = bad, hate hate hate". Now they are in an even worse position (with the exception of sorc werewolves).

Wuuffyy · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

twing1_ · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

acanca · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

The werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the playstyle.

The real problem lies with how class passive and mastery skills are synergizing with werewolf form.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain via conservation of energy and free damage via static reverberation.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

It really is a shame how much pushback the suggestion of disabling class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form got from the werewolf community, now they are in an even worse position (with the exception of sorc werewolves).

I agree, sorc was the main offender when it comes to making ww op. You can definitely make other builds work on ww currently but none are as auto play as sorc ww or have nearly as good sustain

madmufffin · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

twing1_ · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class (which, from a balance point of view, it shouldn't be anyway on account of how relatively easy werewolves are to play as a one-bar build with baked-in defensive and offensive buffs).

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

Wuuffyy · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

I WISH they would have at least had the insight to separate some of these garbage changes with 'in Battle Spirit'. I didn't want my wolf boi nuked in PvP but at the least you could have let them remain unique and more viable in PvE as high sustain, ST monsters (as opposed to a melee-'beam' reskin adjacent)

Wuuffyy · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine becomes even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

twing1_ · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

madmufffin · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class (which, from a balance point of view, it shouldn't be anyway on account of how relatively easy werewolves are to play as a one-bar build with baked-in defensive and offensive buffs).

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

Losing 20%+ of your dps will not keep WW viable. It might get to stay in comp solely because of the unique 6% buff, but most likely people would rather just bring in a class that's pulling 50k+ more damage and bring back SPC.

Wuuffyy · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

madmufffin · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

Right now they don't outparse a single class aside from MAYBE DK and that's only because I've not seen a good DK parse this patch.

Wuuffyy · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

Right now they don't outparse a single class aside from MAYBE DK and that's only because I've not seen a good DK parse this patch.

Not to mention you completely forget that 185k on a top-end, 'parse food', bash weave cancelling werewolf- you are giving the group a 6% damage increase.

So really, my own DPS relative to someone else is less or rather if werewolf parses 185K and necro parses 200k... I still parse 185K but then that necro (and everyone else using that 'logic') parses 200k x 1.06 (so what, 212k to my 185k still) as the dummy doesn't provide the 'feeding frenzy' synergy even though it'd be present in the trial with a werewolf.

ksbrugh · August 3

AllenaNightWood wrote: »

this should make werewolves so much less annoying in pvp becasue they can take on more ppl then a dragon knight and still not go down

Yes but if they're built to take on that many people they're not killing nobody were a DK can and will kill more than the werewolf can.
I play both my DK is deadly my werewolf is mostly annoying

madmufffin · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

Right now they don't outparse a single class aside from MAYBE DK and that's only because I've not seen a good DK parse this patch.

Not to mention you completely forget that 185k on a top-end, 'parse food', bash weave cancelling werewolf- you are giving the group a 6% damage increase.

So really, my own DPS relative to someone else is less or rather if werewolf parses 185K and necro parses 200k... I still parse 185K but then that necro (and everyone else using that 'logic') parses 200k x 1.06 (so what, 212k to my 185k still) as the dummy doesn't provide the 'feeding frenzy' synergy even though it'd be present in the trial with a werewolf.

3 classes parsing over 200k without the feeding frenzy buff. A crit farmed giga tryhard WW is already 20k behind and we think losing 30k more damage is gonna end well for our furry friend.

Wuuffyy · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

Right now they don't outparse a single class aside from MAYBE DK and that's only because I've not seen a good DK parse this patch.

Not to mention you completely forget that 185k on a top-end, 'parse food', bash weave cancelling werewolf- you are giving the group a 6% damage increase.

So really, my own DPS relative to someone else is less or rather if werewolf parses 185K and necro parses 200k... I still parse 185K but then that necro (and everyone else using that 'logic') parses 200k x 1.06 (so what, 212k to my 185k still) as the dummy doesn't provide the 'feeding frenzy' synergy even though it'd be present in the trial with a werewolf.

3 classes parsing over 200k without the feeding frenzy buff. A crit farmed giga tryhard WW is already 20k behind and we think losing 30k more damage is gonna end well for our furry friend.

Yes. You just said losing 50k DPS in 1-2 patches is 'okay'. Not to mention this is almost exclusively ST. Do you actual understand how insane you sound? Can anyone here with a profile picture reply to me??? I'm beginning to think I'm talking to nothing but alts of these forums-goers and it is once again very exhausting.

twing1_ · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

I know this individual isn't representative of the average ESO player, but his builds do serve as a fairly accurate and quick and convenient comparison of the end-game ceiling of each class.

Taking 20% off of 186k DPS would leave Werewolf at 148.8k DPS (186x.8=148.8) which would leave Werewolf pretty much in-line with the parses of most of the other classes, including the run of the mill beam DPS builds. Werewolves would no longer touch the top DPS parses, but an argument could be made that werewolf shouldn't touch the top DPS parses anyway because of how relatively easy it is to play a one-bar werewolf instead of managing the buff and skill timers a 2-bar build requires.

madmufffin · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

I know this individual isn't representative of the average ESO player, but his builds do serve as a fairly accurate and quick and convenient comparison of the end-game ceiling of each class.

Taking 20% off of 186k DPS would leave Werewolf at 148.8k DPS (186x.8=148.8) which would leave Werewolf pretty much in-line with the parses of most of the other classes, including the run of the mill beam DPS builds. Werewolves would no longer touch the top DPS parses, but an argument could be made that werewolf shouldn't touch the top DPS parses anyway because of how relatively easy it is to play a one-bar werewolf instead of managing the buff and skill timers a 2-bar build requires.

Warden is parsing 195k, NB, Cro, and Sorc are over 200k, Plar is near 190k, and DK is in the doghouse at still stronger than WW. Idk who this is, but it is far from a ceiling parser.

Wuuffyy · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

I know this individual isn't representative of the average ESO player, but his builds do serve as a fairly accurate and quick and convenient comparison of the end-game ceiling of each class.

Taking 20% off of 186k DPS would leave Werewolf at 148.8k DPS (186x.8=148.8) which would leave Werewolf pretty much in-line with the parses of most of the other classes, including the run of the mill beam DPS builds. Werewolves would no longer touch the top DPS parses, but an argument could be made that werewolf shouldn't touch the top DPS parses anyway because of how relatively easy it is to play a one-bar werewolf instead of managing the buff and skill timers a 2-bar build requires.

Warden is parsing 195k, NB, Cro, and Sorc are over 200k, Plar is near 190k, and DK is in the doghouse at still stronger than WW. Idk who this is, but it is far from a ceiling parser.

Which, once-again, is relegated to ST and being inflated by 'Feeding Frenzy'. That is NOT good. Please stop talking to me until you can actually properly refute this point; I don't want to waste my time on such an inane back and forth.

twing1_ · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

I know this individual isn't representative of the average ESO player, but his builds do serve as a fairly accurate and quick and convenient comparison of the end-game ceiling of each class.

Taking 20% off of 186k DPS would leave Werewolf at 148.8k DPS (186x.8=148.8) which would leave Werewolf pretty much in-line with the parses of most of the other classes, including the run of the mill beam DPS builds. Werewolves would no longer touch the top DPS parses, but an argument could be made that werewolf shouldn't touch the top DPS parses anyway because of how relatively easy it is to play a one-bar werewolf instead of managing the buff and skill timers a 2-bar build requires.

Warden is parsing 195k, NB, Cro, and Sorc are over 200k, Plar is near 190k, and DK is in the doghouse at still stronger than WW. Idk who this is, but it is far from a ceiling parser.

If he's not a ceiling parser, then the ceiling of werewolves are actually higher than 186k DPS because that is just the number this individual is achieving.

Wuuffyy · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

I know this individual isn't representative of the average ESO player, but his builds do serve as a fairly accurate and quick and convenient comparison of the end-game ceiling of each class.

Taking 20% off of 186k DPS would leave Werewolf at 148.8k DPS (186x.8=148.8) which would leave Werewolf pretty much in-line with the parses of most of the other classes, including the run of the mill beam DPS builds. Werewolves would no longer touch the top DPS parses, but an argument could be made that werewolf shouldn't touch the top DPS parses anyway because of how relatively easy it is to play a one-bar werewolf instead of managing the buff and skill timers a 2-bar build requires.

Warden is parsing 195k, NB, Cro, and Sorc are over 200k, Plar is near 190k, and DK is in the doghouse at still stronger than WW. Idk who this is, but it is far from a ceiling parser.

If he's not a ceiling parser, then the ceiling of werewolves are actually higher than 186k DPS because that is just the number this individual is achieving.

Which is a ridiculous conversation point because werewolf is either 'easy' or 'not easy' (according to him prob 'easy' I would lightly assume; despite undoubtably measuring out to similar or higher APM) and should be the 'highest' by default meaning that the other specs have EVEN MORE ROOM to grow.

madmufffin · August 3

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

madmufffin wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

twing1_ wrote: »

Werewolf sustain nerf feels heavy handed, and doesn't address the primary issue with the class.

Sorc werewolves still have infinite sustain and free damage via static reverberation to boot.

This sustain nerf really hits the the least problematic werewolf builds the hardest, and leaves the majorly overperforming sorc werewolf relatively untouched.

The proper way of balancing werewolf would have been to disable class passive and mastery skills while in werewolf form.

Yea, but for now they should disable 'conservation of energy' and provide some sustain back in-kit (if this is the best solution they are willing to consider) while working on 'werewolf masteries' in the background to fully remove us from the system in a healthy way.

I'm so fluffin' sick of werewolf nerfs. It just never ends, it gets complained out of existence and I continuously question why they ever touch it in the first place (either stick to your guns or don't waste anymore resources on it and let it be a 'meme')

The easiest and simplest solution is to rollback the sustain nerf and just disable class passive and masteries from werewolf form altogether. Werewolf is already strong enough without their own dedicated "werewolf mastery" skills.

And this would absolutely dumpster WW in pve...

Optimized werewolf builds are already parsing over 180k DPS in PvE, removing class passives/masteries from their toolkit would still leave them in a strong and useable spot, even if their ceiling wouldn't be as high as a two-bar class.

Claw Fury alone is already incredibly powerful in PvE, especially when paired with Deadly Strike set, and that just received a health sustain buff in this PTS cycle which will make it more useable in PvE scenarios.

Removing class passive and mastery skills from the werewolf toolkit will still leave them in a suitable place for PvE.

110-120K Claw Fury and 140-150k ST DPS without many masteries on several classes is a joke and a half. That's top-end and I imagine because even more difficult to maintain given that now you're probably going to switch from 'parse food' to 'sustain food' in actual content (plus bash weaving is likely impacted also... which means even less damage)

If they reverted the increased stamina costs of this PTS cycle and instead removed werewolf interactions with class passive and mastery skills, they would still have no problem sustaining without recovery food and still be in a strong and desireable spot in PvE parsing, even though they would no longer be one a contender for the top DPS parse.

140-150K ST DPS is an UNNECESSARY NERF REQUEST when they were simply BEING INCLUDED and weren't OVERTAKING WHOLE TRIALS.

This is TOP-END DPS too. 110-120k (AT A MAXIMUM... IT'D LIKELY AND SADLY BE LESS) on a mediocre player that understands the basics but struggles with consistently light attacking and bash-weaving in a ST playstyle... IS NOT DESIRABLE.

If a person, at that point, is parsing 140-150k... they could simply swap on an Arcanist beam spec and do relatively similar with more versatility, possible utility, less apm, no stupid Berserker feed mech, ALL in an AoE.

I know this individual isn't representative of the average ESO player, but his builds do serve as a fairly accurate and quick and convenient comparison of the end-game ceiling of each class.

Taking 20% off of 186k DPS would leave Werewolf at 148.8k DPS (186x.8=148.8) which would leave Werewolf pretty much in-line with the parses of most of the other classes, including the run of the mill beam DPS builds. Werewolves would no longer touch the top DPS parses, but an argument could be made that werewolf shouldn't touch the top DPS parses anyway because of how relatively easy it is to play a one-bar werewolf instead of managing the buff and skill timers a 2-bar build requires.

Warden is parsing 195k, NB, Cro, and Sorc are over 200k, Plar is near 190k, and DK is in the doghouse at still stronger than WW. Idk who this is, but it is far from a ceiling parser.

If he's not a ceiling parser, then the ceiling of werewolves are actually higher than 186k DPS because that is just the number this individual is achieving.

WW's ceiling is astronomically easier to hit for a normal person because it's a 1bar build with multiple dots. I can hit a .03 weave on WW and I can't parse below a .1 on any other class. Guys like Charles and Alduin are able to hit .01 on a 10 button rotation, which is how they can hit a classes ceiling whereas someone like whoever it is that you linked cannot. 186k on a WW is actually the highest I think I've seen, so likely has some pretty wild crit chance on top of a good weave time.

AdonisJorge · August 3

Parses are not a good way to see classes viability on PVP (that is the most called nerf that people use to nuke WW to oblivion if they can)

Tommy_The_Gun · August 3

It will require some testing, but at 1st glance it seems like WW is going back to being meme class again.... I mean at 1st glance, as I am not 100% sure. Nerf is quite huge. I guess if you look at this from a far, WW seems to be the most nerfed thing in the history of eso.

Wuuffyy · August 3

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

It will require some testing, but at 1st glance it seems like WW is going back to being meme class again.... I mean at 1st glance, as I am not 100% sure. Nerf is quite huge. I guess if you look at this from a far, WW seems to be the most nerfed thing in the history of eso.

If you play a sorc, you'll feel okay-ish. Then they do something to masteries, the procs we use, or more... and then it becomes worse.

Tommy, you know how this goes. I've seen you acknowledge this in other threads as well.

I knew this before the PTS ever dropped. I told everyone I know that 'it will be less than half a page of DK with a 'slap on the wrist' and 'over a page for werewolf'... I knew too.

madmufffin · August 3

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Parses are not a good way to see classes viability on PVP (that is the most called nerf that people use to nuke WW to oblivion if they can)

We were discussing the impact to pve viability removing masteries and class passives would have on WW, so parses are relevant

Wuuffyy · August 3

madmufffin wrote: »

AdonisJorge wrote: »

Parses are not a good way to see classes viability on PVP (that is the most called nerf that people use to nuke WW to oblivion if they can)

We were discussing the impact to pve viability removing masteries and class passives would have on WW, so parses are relevant

I distinctly remember saying I didn't want to discuss with someone who thinks losing 50k maximum, potential DPS in a patch was 'okay', but please- continue.

*Edit: I think I was mixing you and Twing up here, my bad