Please buff other classes sustain to Dk/Ww/Sorcs for games health

acanca · August 2

At the moment, the meta for pvp is incredibly stale with those 3 being head and shoulders above the rest. Other classes can work in very limited scenarios but by and large, they are irrelevant and in my opinion the reason for that is sustain. Those 3 'classes' play the game in a very different way than the rest.

Wretched vitality, for the longest time, has been one of the most popular sets in the meta and all 3 of those 'classes' have sustain so far above and beyond what that set can give that they get the privilege of not wasting a 5 piece set to sustain in order to be able to play. On top of that, they have the privilege of abusing the over abundance of sustain by being able to block/ dodge roll way more than other builds can ever dream of.

This leads to situations where the quality of life of other classes suffers massively.

I think the solution is simple, just give Conservation of Energy class mastery to all classes. This class mastery by itself carries sorcerer to stand with reworked 'classes' like dk and ww and allows it to play in similarly privileged fashion. An extra class mastery to other classes than sorc and dk that does what Conservation of Energy does.

I know its a big ask, but as much as i enjoy playing dk, ww, sorc, the meta at the moment is a bit too stale and with the class reworks being pushed back (which is understandable dont get me wrong), i feel like other classes needs a little help to stay relevant.

VinnyGambini · August 2

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Wuuffyy · August 3

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

Firstmep · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

What non dk/ww/sorc has for sustain is already far above anything we had in morrowind so theres 0 chance we would return to those even if they nerfed the above 3 classes sustain.
Eso is still a game with no cooldowns which is why resource management was such an integral part of combat.

If you play in a group, support roles already provide plenty sustain.
Also, what does adapt in pvp even means? Play the meta classes? That's not adaptation, that's just giving up on everything else.
Dk and ww would still be insanely strong in pvp even if they had to worry about sustain.
You might hit 10k whips instead of 12-15k ones but that's fine.

Ocelot9x · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

It's not like sustain is back,it's not a part of the equation anymore lol
Any bad DK can kite for years on backbar while permablocking and still apply some pressure through dots/inhale/inferno without finishing RSS just by using one skill.

Is impossible to defend DK state now that other class reworks has been postponed indefinitely.

We'll see some juicy nerfs today

acanca · August 3

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

It's not like sustain is back,it's not a part of the equation anymore lol
Any bad DK can kite for years on backbar while permablocking and still apply some pressure through dots/inhale/inferno without finishing RSS just by using one skill.

Is impossible to defend DK state now that other class reworks has been postponed indefinitely.

We'll see some juicy nerfs today

I'm not sure if there is any one left in the team to even consider the state of the pvp anymore to be honest with you so i dont expect much nerfs or changes about pvp.
Though they were also talking about changing the battle spirit effect today so who knows, we might see some changes since the spotlight is a little bit more on pvp somehow this pts.

I was suggesting adding CoE to every class thats not dk or sorc to level the playing field a little bit because they said something to the effect of 'we'll give the other classes something while we reschedule the reworks' and CoE would for sure level the playing field some in my opinion.

tomofhyrule · August 3

Honestly, the infinite sustain is a problem, and I don’t think the answer is “lol just give everyone infinite sustain!”

DK and WW have too much. And I say this as a DK main.

The original playstyle of DK was to have difficult sustain normally. That was the point of the Battle Roar passive was so DK was essentially sustaining by using ults on cooldown. It made it a high pressure build. But now they can just sustain infinitely with Inhale.
Werewolf as well used to match standard sustain rules, but then they made all of the wolf attacks super cheap to account for mag builds, instead of making them “costs max resource” like Arc has.

The sustain actually affects PvE as well, since you have sets like Recover Convergence which are basically useless if nobody has sustain issues. Everyone already considers “resource recovery” as a wasted bonus since sustain is handed out like candy.

I don’t like the idea of nerf nerf nerf nerf, but Inhale needs a serious smackdown and WW needs to go back to a reasonable cost.

Wuuffyy · August 3

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

acanca · August 3

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honestly, the infinite sustain is a problem, and I don’t think the answer is “lol just give everyone infinite sustain!”

DK and WW have too much. And I say this as a DK main.

The original playstyle of DK was to have difficult sustain normally. That was the point of the Battle Roar passive was so DK was essentially sustaining by using ults on cooldown. It made it a high pressure build. But now they can just sustain infinitely with Inhale.
Werewolf as well used to match standard sustain rules, but then they made all of the wolf attacks super cheap to account for mag builds, instead of making them “costs max resource” like Arc has.

The sustain actually affects PvE as well, since you have sets like Recover Convergence which are basically useless if nobody has sustain issues. Everyone already considers “resource recovery” as a wasted bonus since sustain is handed out like candy.

I don’t like the idea of nerf nerf nerf nerf, but Inhale needs a serious smackdown and WW needs to go back to a reasonable cost.

I agree the 'classes' that have it are playing a different game than the classes that dont but at this point i've given up hope that they'll go back on their decision and im just hoping that all reworked classes are shown the same privilege.

It would suck to get to necro class rework in 5 years and then be told that the class will have to make do with their old sustain

Wuuffyy · August 3

acanca wrote: »

It would suck to get to necro class rework in 5 years and then be told that the class will have to make do with their old sustain

Yes.

Also, I think you may have meant 7-10 business years here (kidding, I hope)

AdonisJorge · August 3

Agreed, i think that the best way is to use the masteries that classes already have and buff them, so everyone can have a good sustain mastery to choose from.

React · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

Please stop name dropping me and tagging me on a weekly basis, especially to misrepresent or lie about what I did or didn't do. Its super weird.

15 tags from you in less than 30 days.

Wuuffyy · August 3

React wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

Please stop name dropping me and tagging me on a weekly basis, especially to misrepresent or lie about what I did or didn't do. Its super weird.

I can pull the screenshot, your comment history, or whatever is needed at any time for that or basically anything I say in reference to you. But no problem friend, if you aren’t hyper-relevant to the conversation- I am happy to leave you out of it.

Maybe next time watch your ’werewolf dps doubles everything terminology’ you used to spearhead nerfs which was a direct liemistruth in your favor (everyone was pulling similar ‘duel parses’ that could take advantage of Signet, for example; this with even more burst potential, I would add). Let me know if you want me to pull this right now as I’m more than happy to!

(just trying to help hold people accountable for what they say and do especially when they try and leverage ‘title’ and ‘merit’ alike to get their own way with balancing)

*edit: would also like to note I am by far the only person to have this issue with you in these forums, unfortunately.

*QQ: how’s Pelican doing nowadays? I only saw him make an ‘ultimatum’ post about werewolf (referring to ‘omgosh, so OP, nerf, am verr serious’) and that was it honestly.

Bushido2513 · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

There are a lot of generalizations here but overall I'd say that there's a difference in someone that can't accept change even if it's clearly overall better and someone that can't accept a bad change.

The point of the classes is to provide unique gameplay elements. It's great for a class to be efficient with resources when played correctly.

It's an issue when resource management is just overall gone due to one or two simple actions with little trade off.

I wouldn't say we should nerf exactly but maybe make the sustain match the class and just be something you work at by understanding the CK class.

Currently every class has a sustain mechanic and I'm ok to change them in ways that make gameplay more rewarding in a balanced was.

I say that you say I'm not against change. I'm against using a butcher knife over a scalpel.

Wuuffyy · August 3

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

There are a lot of generalizations here but overall I'd say that there's a difference in someone that can't accept change even if it's clearly overall better and someone that can't accept a bad change.

The point of the classes is to provide unique gameplay elements. It's great for a class to be efficient with resources when played correctly.

It's an issue when resource management is just overall gone due to one or two simple actions with little trade off.

I wouldn't say we should nerf exactly but maybe make the sustain match the class and just be something you work at by understanding the CK class.

Currently every class has a sustain mechanic and I'm ok to change them in ways that make gameplay more rewarding in a balanced was.

I say that you say I'm not against change. I'm against using a butcher knife over a scalpel.

No, minority opinion screaming as loudly as possible in one medium of communication (the forums):

As I said.

tomofhyrule · August 3

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

XVestigeXx · August 3

DK, WW, and and maybe Sorc have too much sustain. This is an instance where they need a nerf rather than a buff to other classes. You should have to give something up to be able to sustain and build for it, as it stands, DK and WW just have effectively infinite sustain and it is breaking that aspect of the game and combat. The game would be less fun if everyone just had DK WW levels of sustain.

ketsparrowhawk · August 3

XVestigeXx wrote: »

DK, WW, and and maybe Sorc have too much sustain. This is an instance where they need a nerf rather than a buff to other classes. You should have to give something up to be able to sustain and build for it, as it stands, DK and WW just have effectively infinite sustain and it is breaking that aspect of the game and combat. The game would be less fun if everyone just had DK WW levels of sustain.

Agreed sustain should be somewhat of a challenge

Wuuffyy · August 3

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

XVestigeXx · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

There are a lot of generalizations here but overall I'd say that there's a difference in someone that can't accept change even if it's clearly overall better and someone that can't accept a bad change.

The point of the classes is to provide unique gameplay elements. It's great for a class to be efficient with resources when played correctly.

It's an issue when resource management is just overall gone due to one or two simple actions with little trade off.

I wouldn't say we should nerf exactly but maybe make the sustain match the class and just be something you work at by understanding the CK class.

Currently every class has a sustain mechanic and I'm ok to change them in ways that make gameplay more rewarding in a balanced was.

I say that you say I'm not against change. I'm against using a butcher knife over a scalpel.

No, minority opinion screaming as loudly as possible in one medium of communication (the forums):

As I said.

115 people is not a very large sample of people. The game is subjective, true, but I think sustain needs to be something you just don't have infinitely as easily as DK and WW do. I like siphoning strikes on NB for instance, where you can get rss back but you have to pay with hp which is fun and strategic. As it stands, Dk has a ability that is a delayed burst AOE that heals them, does tons of burst dmg, and restores 15% of missing resources. Thats just crazy. Also ww just has too much sustain, tankiness, dmg, and utility without giving up anything. They both need precise nerfs. Other classes need buffs, but sustain is not the issue with them

Bushido2513 · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

There are a lot of generalizations here but overall I'd say that there's a difference in someone that can't accept change even if it's clearly overall better and someone that can't accept a bad change.

The point of the classes is to provide unique gameplay elements. It's great for a class to be efficient with resources when played correctly.

It's an issue when resource management is just overall gone due to one or two simple actions with little trade off.

I wouldn't say we should nerf exactly but maybe make the sustain match the class and just be something you work at by understanding the CK class.

Currently every class has a sustain mechanic and I'm ok to change them in ways that make gameplay more rewarding in a balanced was.

I say that you say I'm not against change. I'm against using a butcher knife over a scalpel.

No, minority opinion screaming as loudly as possible in one medium of communication (the forums):

As I said.

Ask any player, especially in this game as it stands if they want more and most will say yes. The average player isn't thinking of the future or sustainably of an idea. They just think right now I want fun, doesn't matter what it cost.

Ask those same players what they would do if they had a stake in the future of the company.

Or ask how many of them are PvE or PvP.

You can make it as simple as add gas, light match if you don't care if it burns down or will be the same person later asking for someone else to fix the change you just asked for or said yes to.

Adding sustain to everyone isn't a good long term strategy. Just makes people happy for a minute till they want you to top the over the top thing.

I'd rather have changes that add to the current and future enjoyment of the game.

Wuuffyy · August 3

XVestigeXx wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

There are a lot of generalizations here but overall I'd say that there's a difference in someone that can't accept change even if it's clearly overall better and someone that can't accept a bad change.

The point of the classes is to provide unique gameplay elements. It's great for a class to be efficient with resources when played correctly.

It's an issue when resource management is just overall gone due to one or two simple actions with little trade off.

I wouldn't say we should nerf exactly but maybe make the sustain match the class and just be something you work at by understanding the CK class.

Currently every class has a sustain mechanic and I'm ok to change them in ways that make gameplay more rewarding in a balanced was.

I say that you say I'm not against change. I'm against using a butcher knife over a scalpel.

No, minority opinion screaming as loudly as possible in one medium of communication (the forums):

As I said.

115 people is not a very large sample of people. The game is subjective, true, but I think sustain needs to be something you just don't have infinitely as easily as DK and WW do. I like siphoning strikes on NB for instance, where you can get rss back but you have to pay with hp which is fun and strategic. As it stands, Dk has a ability that is a delayed burst AOE that heals them, does tons of burst dmg, and restores 15% of missing resources. Thats just crazy. Also ww just has too much sustain, tankiness, dmg, and utility without giving up anything. They both need precise nerfs. Other classes need buffs, but sustain is not the issue with them

Neither are the 5-10 that run around and comment the same things on repeat here via the forums (also, that’s only in a handful of hours for the actual R-survey). The argument here is that the dev team (in whatever capacity) and Reddit through this impromptu survey have provided their opinion that ‘core of flame’ and ‘conservation of energy’ are largely well desired which is counterpoint to the ‘destroy infinite sustain’ group here.

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

There are a lot of generalizations here but overall I'd say that there's a difference in someone that can't accept change even if it's clearly overall better and someone that can't accept a bad change.

The point of the classes is to provide unique gameplay elements. It's great for a class to be efficient with resources when played correctly.

It's an issue when resource management is just overall gone due to one or two simple actions with little trade off.

I wouldn't say we should nerf exactly but maybe make the sustain match the class and just be something you work at by understanding the CK class.

Currently every class has a sustain mechanic and I'm ok to change them in ways that make gameplay more rewarding in a balanced was.

I say that you say I'm not against change. I'm against using a butcher knife over a scalpel.

No, minority opinion screaming as loudly as possible in one medium of communication (the forums):

As I said.

Ask any player, especially in this game as it stands if they want more and most will say yes. The average player isn't thinking of the future or sustainably of an idea. They just think right now I want fun, doesn't matter what it cost.

Ask those same players what they would do if they had a stake in the future of the company.

Or ask how many of them are PvE or PvP.

You can make it as simple as add gas, light match if you don't care if it burns down or will be the same person later asking for someone else to fix the change you just asked for or said yes to.

Adding sustain to everyone isn't a good long term strategy. Just makes people happy for a minute till they want you to top the over the top thing.

I'd rather have changes that add to the current and future enjoyment of the game.

I knew it’d be nothing but egregious excuses. There are plenty of comments on that same thread that are ‘PvP oriented’ and those that are upvoted especially citing a want/need for CoE-level sustain instead of nerfs to all sustain on reworked classes and masteries.

I’d also wager that they shouldn’t be spending so much effort (layoffs, reduced capacity, niche opinions) to nerf and destroy certain facets of PvP behavior on the ‘reworked-level’ for PvP, for a handful of spiteful forum-goers as opposed to slight nerfs to reworked classes and buffs (with werewolf received reduced benefit) to class masteries.

Bushido2513 · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Yes for correctness let's admit that it's not infinite sustain in the sense that you can just spam skills.

It's more so that there are issues in that to can lower the cost of something like block to where your resources returned or generated now outpace the cost. In that scenario the loop now self sustains.

The other issue is resource return that doesn't fully sustain but approaches the level too closely so that minimal or no investment is required from the player.

The problem is that other classes can't currently match this.

But let's say they could.

Now everyone can build into damage and that sounds fair but then we have the issue where nobody wants to die so they can and build into mitigation. So ok to can spam damage and I can spam heals and mitigation.

So sure neither of us has sustain issues but now we just go through overly simplified combat loops and probably get more stalemates.

I would say instead I want people to make choices about investment and work to get builds to be the best they can with a balanced toolkit.

Wuuffyy · August 3

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Yes for correctness let's admit that it's not infinite sustain in the sense that you can just spam skills.

It's more so that there are issues in that to can lower the cost of something like block to where your resources returned or generated now outpace the cost. In that scenario the loop now self sustains.

The other issue is resource return that doesn't fully sustain but approaches the level too closely so that minimal or no investment is required from the player.

The problem is that other classes can't currently match this.

But let's say they could.

Now everyone can build into damage and that sounds fair but then we have the issue where nobody wants to die so they can and build into mitigation. So ok to can spam damage and I can spam heals and mitigation.

So sure neither of us has sustain issues but now we just go through overly simplified combat loops and probably get more stalemates.

I would say instead I want people to make choices about investment and work to get builds to be the best they can with a balanced toolkit.

Except werewolves and DKs still die regularly with these things and only non-reworked classes who can’t hang sustain-wise experience such significant trouble otherwise. I can provide you a ton of clips right now from my perspective on my wolf, DK, and NB for opponents falling over with 30 seconds- 1 min tops; as mentioned, ‘good players’ have had plenty of methods of high-sustain for ages.

You all say ‘your opinion isn’t being listened to’ but you both outright refuse my perspective and flagrantly deny the same results and conclusions the dev team received via polling far prior to rework concepts being created on the balance level.

Militan1404 · August 3

Sustain stopped being a part of the game allready when ZOS introduced sub-classing so lets not pretend that DK, WW and sorc created that problem. Also the way dmg has gone up the last couple of years its only natural that sustain and survieability also goes up then.
If you nerf sustain then sub-classing would be best in slott again and all the class rework has been a waist of time. Templar, arcanist, NB and warden all has in common that they still benefit more of being sub-classed then pure classed becouse they still has sustain issues. Didnt mention nerco becouse they are in a decent spot right now an can stalemate even the best of DKs right now but lacks dmg instead.

VinnyGambini · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Of course it ISN'T INFINITE SUSTAIN. Even 10000000k regen is not INFINITE.

But if you can regen EVERY SECOND like 1,5k of your main resource, then you don't need orzorga, tri stat pots, wretched vitality etc.

YOU CAN GO FULL DMG AND STACK IT WITH ARMOR POTIONS.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT GIVES UNFAIR ADVANTAGE?

Seriously I'm tired of all this toxic ppl that pretend that 3 classes having 3 times more sustain than other classes is OK. No it's not.

Wuuffyy · August 3

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Of course it ISN'T INFINITE SUSTAIN. Even 10000000k regen is not INFINITE.

But if you can regen EVERY SECOND like 1,5k of your main resource, then you don't need orzorga, tri stat pots, wretched vitality etc.

YOU CAN GO FULL DMG AND STACK IT WITH ARMOR POTIONS.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT GIVES UNFAIR ADVANTAGE?

Seriously I'm tired of all this toxic ppl that pretend that 3 classes having 3 times more sustain than other classes is OK. No it's not.

GET RID OF ARMOR POTS, THEY SHOULDN'T EXIST (their uniqueness and values don’t make sense; they are based off the old armor values and ergo I fully agree with you here)

10,000,000 sustain per 2 seconds is ABSOLUTELY the equivalent of infinite sustain friend. THIS IS NOT THAT.

It’s going to be okay Vinny, just take a breath.

I’m tired of 24/7 nerfs for forum-houses egos when I have been capable of slaughtering these players left and right. STOP TRYING TO NERF THINGS DUE TO YOUR OWN SKILL ISSUES OR LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO ADAPT.

I mean no disdain here, just kinda wanting to have the same whimsical fun you are.

VinnyGambini · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Of course it ISN'T INFINITE SUSTAIN. Even 10000000k regen is not INFINITE.

But if you can regen EVERY SECOND like 1,5k of your main resource, then you don't need orzorga, tri stat pots, wretched vitality etc.

YOU CAN GO FULL DMG AND STACK IT WITH ARMOR POTIONS.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT GIVES UNFAIR ADVANTAGE?

Seriously I'm tired of all this toxic ppl that pretend that 3 classes having 3 times more sustain than other classes is OK. No it's not.

GET RID OF ARMOR POTS, THEY SHOULDN'T EXIST (their uniqueness and values don’t make sense; they are based off the old armor values and ergo I fully agree with you here)

10,000,000 sustain per 2 seconds is ABSOLUTELY the equivalent of infinite sustain friend. THIS IS NOT THAT.

It’s going to be okay Vinny, just take a breath.

I’m tired of 24/7 nerfs for forum-houses egos when I have been capable of slaughtering these players left and right. STOP TRYING TO NERF THINGS DUE TO YOUR OWN SKILL ISSUES OR LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO ADAPT.

I mean no disdain here, just kinda wanting to have the same whimsical fun you are.

Sustain is the part of this game, deleting armor pots wont fix things. What you want to do is make sustain marginal. Making sustain marginal (like current DK, sorc, WW) let's you for example block all the time. It let's you abandon sustain cps. It makes you abandon sustain sets. It makes it possible to spam skills like ward, streak, burst heals.

You would have to delete all the things above, effectively breaking game.

Resurce sustain is CORE gameplay maechanic. Having very high sustain breaks the game.

And it's NOT the first time - some time ago dk's could spam cinder storm while holding block forever. Right now we have the same situation, they can use heart of flame while blocking forever. Sorc and WW are in very similar situation.

Above fact IS gamebreaking. You want to disable CORE game mechanic.

Wuuffyy · August 3

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Of course it ISN'T INFINITE SUSTAIN. Even 10000000k regen is not INFINITE.

But if you can regen EVERY SECOND like 1,5k of your main resource, then you don't need orzorga, tri stat pots, wretched vitality etc.

YOU CAN GO FULL DMG AND STACK IT WITH ARMOR POTIONS.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT GIVES UNFAIR ADVANTAGE?

Seriously I'm tired of all this toxic ppl that pretend that 3 classes having 3 times more sustain than other classes is OK. No it's not.

GET RID OF ARMOR POTS, THEY SHOULDN'T EXIST (their uniqueness and values don’t make sense; they are based off the old armor values and ergo I fully agree with you here)

10,000,000 sustain per 2 seconds is ABSOLUTELY the equivalent of infinite sustain friend. THIS IS NOT THAT.

It’s going to be okay Vinny, just take a breath.

I’m tired of 24/7 nerfs for forum-houses egos when I have been capable of slaughtering these players left and right. STOP TRYING TO NERF THINGS DUE TO YOUR OWN SKILL ISSUES OR LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO ADAPT.

I mean no disdain here, just kinda wanting to have the same whimsical fun you are.

Sustain is the part of this game, deleting armor pots wont fix things. What you want to do is make sustain marginal. Making sustain marginal (like current DK, sorc, WW) let's you for example block all the time. It let's you abandon sustain cps. It makes you abandon sustain sets. It makes it possible to spam skills like ward, streak, burst heals.

You would have to delete all the things above, effectively breaking game.

Resurce sustain is CORE gameplay maechanic. Having very high sustain breaks the game.

And it's NOT the first time - some time ago dk's could spam cinder storm while holding block forever. Right now we have the same situation, they can use heart of flame while blocking forever. Sorc and WW are in very similar situation.

Above fact IS gamebreaking. You want to disable CORE game mechanic.

And yet core of flame remains.

VinnyGambini · August 3

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honest question: what’s the point of having resources if we have infinite sustain?

Other MMOs that don’t use resource pools operate on cooldowns instead. The idea is that you should not be able to infinitely spam special attacks.

So if we have infinite sustain, what’s the purpose of Mag/Stam regen stats? Why do they exist in the game? Why bother with max resources if it’s irrelevant. It allows you to just build for pure damage and sacrifice nothing.

You should have to choose: do you want high sustain? Then you have low damage. Do you want high damage? Then you have low sustain. High damage and high sustain is inherently unbalanced.

It is isn’t actually ‘infinite sustain’. It’s more sustain built in-kit.

You can still lose resources (possibly meaning ‘stam broken’) and die on DK or wolf (sorc only gets a separate pass because of streak specifically). This is even more so the case when not built optimally or spamming roll/holding block without investment into block reduction (albeit this second part is less pronounced on a DK). All of this being fully beyond the fact a ‘good player’ can line up burst and achieve the same goal (killing a high-sustain target) fairly easily nowadays anyway (if you needed an example, high-level ‘dueling’ has looked very similar to this playstyle for ages).

In PvP before; you’d run wretched vitality and potentially Roska’s (still can on non-reworked classes with masteries) and achieve the same goal (basically making ‘sustain issues’ against a handful of certain people non-existent).

I’d logically argue that ‘damage-to-kill’ isn’t a finite number either and beyond this there have been a plethora of sets to either boost both (sustain and damage) simultaneously such as Essence Thief or by doing something similar using Roska’s to sacrifice very little for using a 5/5/2/1/1 setup (or just using the defensive buffs from Monomyth to run more sustain ‘for free’); in other words, this possibility is nothing new at all.

Of course it ISN'T INFINITE SUSTAIN. Even 10000000k regen is not INFINITE.

But if you can regen EVERY SECOND like 1,5k of your main resource, then you don't need orzorga, tri stat pots, wretched vitality etc.

YOU CAN GO FULL DMG AND STACK IT WITH ARMOR POTIONS.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT IT GIVES UNFAIR ADVANTAGE?

Seriously I'm tired of all this toxic ppl that pretend that 3 classes having 3 times more sustain than other classes is OK. No it's not.

GET RID OF ARMOR POTS, THEY SHOULDN'T EXIST (their uniqueness and values don’t make sense; they are based off the old armor values and ergo I fully agree with you here)

10,000,000 sustain per 2 seconds is ABSOLUTELY the equivalent of infinite sustain friend. THIS IS NOT THAT.

It’s going to be okay Vinny, just take a breath.

I’m tired of 24/7 nerfs for forum-houses egos when I have been capable of slaughtering these players left and right. STOP TRYING TO NERF THINGS DUE TO YOUR OWN SKILL ISSUES OR LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO ADAPT.

I mean no disdain here, just kinda wanting to have the same whimsical fun you are.

Sustain is the part of this game, deleting armor pots wont fix things. What you want to do is make sustain marginal. Making sustain marginal (like current DK, sorc, WW) let's you for example block all the time. It let's you abandon sustain cps. It makes you abandon sustain sets. It makes it possible to spam skills like ward, streak, burst heals.

You would have to delete all the things above, effectively breaking game.

Resurce sustain is CORE gameplay maechanic. Having very high sustain breaks the game.

And it's NOT the first time - some time ago dk's could spam cinder storm while holding block forever. Right now we have the same situation, they can use heart of flame while blocking forever. Sorc and WW are in very similar situation.

Above fact IS gamebreaking. You want to disable CORE game mechanic.

And yet core of flame remains.

And it should be nerfed to the ground, just like conservation of energy.