Please buff other classes sustain to Dk/Ww/Sorcs for games health

acanca · August 2

At the moment, the meta for pvp is incredibly stale with those 3 being head and shoulders above the rest. Other classes can work in very limited scenarios but by and large, they are irrelevant and in my opinion the reason for that is sustain. Those 3 'classes' play the game in a very different way than the rest.

Wretched vitality, for the longest time, has been one of the most popular sets in the meta and all 3 of those 'classes' have sustain so far above and beyond what that set can give that they get the privilege of not wasting a 5 piece set to sustain in order to be able to play. On top of that, they have the privilege of abusing the over abundance of sustain by being able to block/ dodge roll way more than other builds can ever dream of.

This leads to situations where the quality of life of other classes suffers massively.

I think the solution is simple, just give Conservation of Energy class mastery to all classes. This class mastery by itself carries sorcerer to stand with reworked 'classes' like dk and ww and allows it to play in similarly privileged fashion. An extra class mastery to other classes than sorc and dk that does what Conservation of Energy does.

I know its a big ask, but as much as i enjoy playing dk, ww, sorc, the meta at the moment is a bit too stale and with the class reworks being pushed back (which is understandable dont get me wrong), i feel like other classes needs a little help to stay relevant.

VinnyGambini · August 2

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Wuuffyy · 4:50AM

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

Firstmep · 6:46AM

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

What non dk/ww/sorc has for sustain is already far above anything we had in morrowind so theres 0 chance we would return to those even if they nerfed the above 3 classes sustain.
Eso is still a game with no cooldowns which is why resource management was such an integral part of combat.

If you play in a group, support roles already provide plenty sustain.
Also, what does adapt in pvp even means? Play the meta classes? That's not adaptation, that's just giving up on everything else.
Dk and ww would still be insanely strong in pvp even if they had to worry about sustain.
You might hit 10k whips instead of 12-15k ones but that's fine.

Ocelot9x · 6:51AM

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

It's not like sustain is back,it's not a part of the equation anymore lol
Any bad DK can kite for years on backbar while permablocking and still apply some pressure through dots/inhale/inferno without finishing RSS just by using one skill.

Is impossible to defend DK state now that other class reworks has been postponed indefinitely.

We'll see some juicy nerfs today

acanca · 8:37AM

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

IMO sustain is a part of the game. Sorc, WW, and DK currently have unlimited sustain.

Conclusion: nerf DK, WW, sorc unlimited sustain, instead of giving it to other classes. Just DISABLE Conservation of Energy and DK's inhale in PvP.

Fully disagree with you and agree with OP. Please and thank you! It’s okay for things to change.

‘Bad’ DKs and wolves are still very much killable and burst trumps all!

We had this prior and it was unnecessarily destroyed with Morrowind… now it has been returned, it feels great to have, and there is more player involvement in the process also compared to before. I also don’t want them to upend future classes for the sake of people that choose not to and refuse to adapt in PvP

It's not like sustain is back,it's not a part of the equation anymore lol
Any bad DK can kite for years on backbar while permablocking and still apply some pressure through dots/inhale/inferno without finishing RSS just by using one skill.

Is impossible to defend DK state now that other class reworks has been postponed indefinitely.

We'll see some juicy nerfs today

I'm not sure if there is any one left in the team to even consider the state of the pvp anymore to be honest with you so i dont expect much nerfs or changes about pvp.
Though they were also talking about changing the battle spirit effect today so who knows, we might see some changes since the spotlight is a little bit more on pvp somehow this pts.

I was suggesting adding CoE to every class thats not dk or sorc to level the playing field a little bit because they said something to the effect of 'we'll give the other classes something while we reschedule the reworks' and CoE would for sure level the playing field some in my opinion.

tomofhyrule · 10:55AM

Honestly, the infinite sustain is a problem, and I don’t think the answer is “lol just give everyone infinite sustain!”

DK and WW have too much. And I say this as a DK main.

The original playstyle of DK was to have difficult sustain normally. That was the point of the Battle Roar passive was so DK was essentially sustaining by using ults on cooldown. It made it a high pressure build. But now they can just sustain infinitely with Inhale.
Werewolf as well used to match standard sustain rules, but then they made all of the wolf attacks super cheap to account for mag builds, instead of making them “costs max resource” like Arc has.

The sustain actually affects PvE as well, since you have sets like Recover Convergence which are basically useless if nobody has sustain issues. Everyone already considers “resource recovery” as a wasted bonus since sustain is handed out like candy.

I don’t like the idea of nerf nerf nerf nerf, but Inhale needs a serious smackdown and WW needs to go back to a reasonable cost.

Wuuffyy · 11:09AM

It’s clear the vocal minority of forum-goers despise change. The most obvious solution (and likely far more simple to implement while keeping pace) here clearly equates to adding a CoE-level sustain passive to each class (the 3 best specs right now are the 3 with high sustain: DK, wolf, sorc after all). This serves to greatly assist in PvE as well (as needed) for non-reworked classes, especially for support.

They polled this prior and the conclusion drawn was that this type of built-in sustain was preferred to the alternative by far; pretending that they hadn’t planned this for both forms of content for some time before even the DK rework is overtly silly. Additionally, you all could have easily raised FAR more concern during the DK PTS (which would have been the time to ‘nip it in the bud’) but just like with @React , etc., it was widely praised during the time by you same forum-goers.

The only suggestion any of you have is nerf on repeat (and it usually comes from the same names almost every time) and it’s actually both sickening and exhausting; this is once again a direct result of a person’s inability to accept change except you try to strong arm balance in your own refusal to accept the changes.

*edit: someone said ‘hop in a group’… lol. Hop in a group to solve any problem (not just sustain) xD

acanca · 11:53AM

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Honestly, the infinite sustain is a problem, and I don’t think the answer is “lol just give everyone infinite sustain!”

DK and WW have too much. And I say this as a DK main.

The original playstyle of DK was to have difficult sustain normally. That was the point of the Battle Roar passive was so DK was essentially sustaining by using ults on cooldown. It made it a high pressure build. But now they can just sustain infinitely with Inhale.
Werewolf as well used to match standard sustain rules, but then they made all of the wolf attacks super cheap to account for mag builds, instead of making them “costs max resource” like Arc has.

The sustain actually affects PvE as well, since you have sets like Recover Convergence which are basically useless if nobody has sustain issues. Everyone already considers “resource recovery” as a wasted bonus since sustain is handed out like candy.

I don’t like the idea of nerf nerf nerf nerf, but Inhale needs a serious smackdown and WW needs to go back to a reasonable cost.

I agree the 'classes' that have it are playing a different game than the classes that dont but at this point i've given up hope that they'll go back on their decision and im just hoping that all reworked classes are shown the same privilege.

It would suck to get to necro class rework in 5 years and then be told that the class will have to make do with their old sustain

Wuuffyy · 12:01PM

acanca wrote: »

It would suck to get to necro class rework in 5 years and then be told that the class will have to make do with their old sustain

Yes.

Also, I think you may have meant 7-10 business years here (kidding, I hope)