Veterancy: A Job Well Done!

Gabriel_H · July 14

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Usureki · July 14

Agreed. It is really nice to feel a sense of progress in a game where most people are maxed out with both levels and gear. Also the rewards are connecting PvP a bit to the rest of the game, similarly to ToT. Kudos!

Necrotech_Master · July 14

i like there being more rewards and reason to do pvp once you max ranks lol

however, i think the amount of pts needed to rank up becomes too grindy past rank 50

i dont mind pvping for long sessions occasionally, but needing to earn like 168k pts worth of AP per day to make it to rank 100 before the time expires is a lot of work

the "plateau" for rank 50+ should be in the 75-100k range, not 168k

OsUfi · July 14

I also like veterancy, though I'm only level 65ish. It's good addition to the game.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the "plateau" for rank 50+ should be in the 75-100k range, not 168k

I also feel the same haha. I enjoy PvP, I'm just not very good at it, and when your on a losing streak of BGs, man its a grind. I'm good enough to hold my own, I'm not good enough to carry a team. I'm almost always the top scorer in every match. But a few weeks ago I had to play 5+ matches a day to get a single win. Seeing as the first win is the big boost to veterancy, that's turned my post 50 grind into a mega grind.

Gabriel_H · July 14

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like there being more rewards and reason to do pvp once you max ranks lol

however, i think the amount of pts needed to rank up becomes too grindy past rank 50

i dont mind pvping for long sessions occasionally, but needing to earn like 168k pts worth of AP per day to make it to rank 100 before the time expires is a lot of work

the "plateau" for rank 50+ should be in the 75-100k range, not 168k

Not as much as it first appears. That 168k is a mix of AP and XP. While XP converts at around 0.16pts per XP, the XP can be easily farmed in Cyro or IC.

I spent 2 hours in Cyro last night, a low scoring night for the Pact, and still got from rank 78 to rank 80. That's around an hour a rank with scrolls.

In total, I've probably spent around 20 hours in Cyro/IC farming for Veterancy. 20 hours to get to rank 80, scales up to around 40 hours or less (depending on scoring opportunities). 40 hours out of a total of 3,600 available.

That's a more than acceptable effort to outcome ratio.

Gabriel_H · July 14

OsUfi wrote: »

I also like veterancy, though I'm only level 65ish. It's good addition to the game.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the "plateau" for rank 50+ should be in the 75-100k range, not 168k

I also feel the same haha. I enjoy PvP, I'm just not very good at it, and when your on a losing streak of BGs, man its a grind. I'm good enough to hold my own, I'm not good enough to carry a team. I'm almost always the top scorer in every match. But a few weeks ago I had to play 5+ matches a day to get a single win. Seeing as the first win is the big boost to veterancy, that's turned my post 50 grind into a mega grind.

BGs are the worst way to farm Veterancy ranks.

OsUfi · July 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

I also like veterancy, though I'm only level 65ish. It's good addition to the game.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the "plateau" for rank 50+ should be in the 75-100k range, not 168k

I also feel the same haha. I enjoy PvP, I'm just not very good at it, and when your on a losing streak of BGs, man its a grind. I'm good enough to hold my own, I'm not good enough to carry a team. I'm almost always the top scorer in every match. But a few weeks ago I had to play 5+ matches a day to get a single win. Seeing as the first win is the big boost to veterancy, that's turned my post 50 grind into a mega grind.

BGs are the worst way to farm Veterancy ranks.

I'm not really trying to farm it. Just progress naturally.

I don't usually have much time to play, so a slip into BGs for one or two matches and writs on a character is all I usually do 5 days a week, with some Cyro Friday and some questing Saturday night.

That "first win of the day" is some like like 50k towards veterancy. That's a big deal when you haven't got a lot of time to spend PvPing every night.

katanagirl1 · July 14

I PvP every day but just reached 50 yesterday. If you’re being double teamed constantly and losing defense of keeps you get barely nothing in the way of AP for hours of effort.

The rewards are pretty good but I can’t PvP as a full time job every day, hope I can still make it to 100.

I’d also not like having my cp replaced by the veterancy icon and number instead.

Necrotech_Master · July 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i like there being more rewards and reason to do pvp once you max ranks lol

however, i think the amount of pts needed to rank up becomes too grindy past rank 50

i dont mind pvping for long sessions occasionally, but needing to earn like 168k pts worth of AP per day to make it to rank 100 before the time expires is a lot of work

the "plateau" for rank 50+ should be in the 75-100k range, not 168k

Not as much as it first appears. That 168k is a mix of AP and XP. While XP converts at around 0.16pts per XP, the XP can be easily farmed in Cyro or IC.

I spent 2 hours in Cyro last night, a low scoring night for the Pact, and still got from rank 78 to rank 80. That's around an hour a rank with scrolls.

In total, I've probably spent around 20 hours in Cyro/IC farming for Veterancy. 20 hours to get to rank 80, scales up to around 40 hours or less (depending on scoring opportunities). 40 hours out of a total of 3,600 available.

That's a more than acceptable effort to outcome ratio.

ive been using war tortes when im on a roll in cyro, but otherwise i havent been using boosts

i know what goes into veteracy, ive done runs in IC, an hour run solo to the center and back usually only nets me about 20-25k veteracy pts

so without using xp boosts and whatnot, it would take me 6 hours to make 1 rank

when im on a roll in cyro, a keep cap is around 6-7k AP, 3 keeps which if theres a zerg train going can be done in about 30 min or less

you shouldnt "have" to use any kind of boosts to be able to make it to the top rank in a reasonable amount of time

the last several weekends ive been spending almost 20 hours combined between sat and sun in cyro and i only get an avg of 2.5 veteracy ranks, and since i dont pvp all the time either, im still only at like rank 61

for me personally, i only plan on trying to get to 100 once for the achievements, after that im not gonna bother trying to go past 50 if it stays at the current scale for the next veteracy season

HerowynKerowyn · July 14

I like the Veterancy reward track, but I have the same issue I had with the Tome auto claimer. The transmutes need to come in Geodes so you never go over currency cap.

Gabriel_H · July 14

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

you shouldnt "have" to use any kind of boosts to be able to make it to the top rank in a reasonable amount of time

Depends entirely on the definition of "reasonable". ZOS gave us 150 days.

Necrotech_Master · July 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

you shouldnt "have" to use any kind of boosts to be able to make it to the top rank in a reasonable amount of time

Depends entirely on the definition of "reasonable". ZOS gave us 150 days.

yes, for 100 ranks

but because the amount per rank is not the same, you can get to rank 50 in like 2-3 weeks with avg playtime, but after 50 its like i feel like i have to spend 6-8+ hours to even get 2 ranks, and to do that for 50 ranks is ~400 hours of cyro time for an avg player

if they are expecting an avg player to get to 100, thats gonna burn them out on cyro by the 150 day mark, as it feels like i already have to almost no life cyro to get from 50 to 100

Personofsecrets · July 14

It's obnoxious to gatekeep skins and titles behind the worst part of eso, during it's most awful metagame, via a time limited huge grind that requirs specialized knowldge to complete in even a somewhat efficient way.

I demand that the next veterancy is for Tales of Tribute experience. 100 levels of card gaming that must be completed asap. Remember thinking that FOMO was over?

Gagoimaliu · July 14

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's obnoxious to gatekeep skins and titles behind the worst part of eso, during it's most awful metagame, via a time limited huge grind that requirs specialized knowldge to complete in even a somewhat efficient way.

I demand that the next veterancy is for Tales of Tribute experience. 100 levels of card gaming that must be completed asap. Remember thinking that FOMO was over?

Gwent Tribute Master title for winning 100 rounds of ToT?

GeneralGrundmann · July 14

First, I am fine with farming battlegrounds.

I noticed the following:

First Win: approximately 40k to 42k veterancy points
Wins after first win: approximately 30k to 32k veterancy points
Each loss: approximately 15k to 16k veterancy points

With six solid wins I manage to get one rank after level 50.

Most of the time I need seven or eight games, with an average game time of approximately 60 minutes for one rank, sometimes a little faster, sometimes a little slower.

For me, that's an acceptable timeframe. But your mileage may differ ofc.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 14

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Seriously?

Veterancy doesn't do anything for those of us who play regular PvP in Grey Host.

Veterancy ranking was designed to encourage us to play vengeance instead of Grey Host. The veterancy system encouraged precisely zero players to move from Grey Host to vengeance.

And then at the end of the season, all progression is just erased.

So what's so great about it again?

Arunei · July 14

I feel like there are too many Vengeance buffs. A number of the rewards for hitting a VR are ONLY Vengeance stat increases, which does absolutely nothing for people who won't ever set foot into that Campaign. Every VR should reward SOMETHING that's more useful to a wider range of players and to PvP in general, not a single game mode within it.

Gabriel_H · July 14

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Seriously?

Veterancy doesn't do anything for those of us who play regular PvP in Grey Host.

Veterancy ranking was designed to encourage us to play vengeance instead of Grey Host. The veterancy system encouraged precisely zero players to move from Grey Host to vengeance.

And then at the end of the season, all progression is just erased.

So what's so great about it again?

Maybe try looking at the rewards you get as extras for doing something you are already doing?! Veterancy ranks have zero incentive to go into Vengeance so why would anyone switch?!

If you don't like Gold, Tel Var, Transmutes, Trade Bars, Crafting materials, AP scrolls, XP Scrolls, Skill Styles, Style Pages, Imperial Fragments and Titles then Veterancy is obviously not for you ... but I am left wondering what actual is?!

Gabriel_H · July 14

Personofsecrets wrote: »

It's obnoxious to gatekeep skins and titles behind the worst part of eso, during it's most awful metagame, via a time limited huge grind that requirs specialized knowldge to complete in even a somewhat efficient way.

I demand that the next veterancy is for Tales of Tribute experience. 100 levels of card gaming that must be completed asap. Remember thinking that FOMO was over?

PvPers say the same thing about PvE rewards.

ForfiniteStories · July 14

It takes way too long to grind through ranks beyond 50. And I am someone without any real responsibilities.
Two to three hours per day for one rank beyond 50. Two to three hours for one video game.
Vengeance is also dead now, unfortunately, so even if I could push myself to waste several hours a day, I wouldn't even be able to.
Regular PvP is so unfun, it's unplayable.
It is impossible to reach 100. At least, I have enough self respect not to bother. I would need to be useless in Cyrodiil for hundreds of thousands of hours. I would need to wound my soul through the gauntlet of a trillion battlegrounds matches.
Why couldn't they have just made this as simple as Tomes.

SeaGtGruff · July 15

I haven't played much in Cyrodiil lately on my PCEU main, so my Veterancy level there is currently Rank 18.

But I've been more active in Cyrodiil on my PCNA main, so my Veterancy level there is currently Rank 46.

If I don't get anywhere close to Rank 100, I won't unduly unhappy about it, as I don't participate in PvP nearly as much as a lot of other players do. I mean, sure, I just looked at the rewards for attaining the highest Veterancy Ranks, some of them do look very nice, so it would be awesome if I could earn them. I'm just not going to grind unmercifully for them, and if I don't manage to earn them in time, then such is life.

On the other hand, if earning XP in the Imperial City counts toward it-- which I hope includes the Imperial Sewers as well-- then I'll probably be spending more time there, because I always enjoy running around in the sewers killing stuff.

SaffronCitrusflower · July 15

Gabriel_H wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Seriously?

Veterancy doesn't do anything for those of us who play regular PvP in Grey Host.

Veterancy ranking was designed to encourage us to play vengeance instead of Grey Host. The veterancy system encouraged precisely zero players to move from Grey Host to vengeance.

And then at the end of the season, all progression is just erased.

So what's so great about it again?

Maybe try looking at the rewards you get as extras for doing something you are already doing?! Veterancy ranks have zero incentive to go into Vengeance so why would anyone switch?!

If you don't like Gold, Tel Var, Transmutes, Trade Bars, Crafting materials, AP scrolls, XP Scrolls, Skill Styles, Style Pages, Imperial Fragments and Titles then Veterancy is obviously not for you ... but I am left wondering what actual is?!

I have looked at the "rewards". You must not have. There is nothing for Grey Host players in the veterancy system other than low value easy to obtain materials and some style pages.

You clearly only play in vengeance and not in Grey Host if you even PvP at all. (don't mistake this comment as agreeing that vengeance is PvP.)

The highlighted part of your statement is exactly backwards from the reality of what the veterancy system is. The veterancy system only gives perks for vengeance players. There's nothing of value in the veterancy system for Grey Host players.

The veterancy system was a gimmick to draw players into vengeance. It didn't even achieve it's most fundamental goal.

SkillzMFG · July 15

I like Veterancy as well, although I think they shouldn't have made it time limited; ESO is really suffering from FOMO fatigue already!

However, Veterancy made me go back into Cyrodiil and Imperial City and I can see I'm not the only one - places are crawling with new people. I just wish they added it sooner when I had more free time so all of those days and nights I've spent grinding in Cyro and IC, while I was in my prime, didn't go to waste. Still it's nice to have some incentive to go back to the, in my opinion, the best two zones in the game. I'm a huge fan of open world PvP and I like running around looking for a challenge, but I also like the fact that the PvE players aren't being left out since they can just explore the PvE side of these zones and still get some progress in Veterancy; this is something I like to do as well if I'm too burnt out after a hard day to tryhard against beefed up DKs and Werewolves.

The other bad side of it is that often you see DC and AD team up during late night hours to farm newer players over and over without them really having a chance to fight back. Although this is not really a Veterancy issue, this type of system definitely awards going for the low-hanging fruit. Ultimately though, people will always find a way to abuse and min-max a system one way or another; I just think it's funny that those same people are usually the first to cry "CYRO IS DEAD" while not realizing they are actively killing it by curbstomping the poor newcomers.

SeaGtGruff · July 15

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

(don't mistake this comment as agreeing that vengeance is PvP.)

I really don't understand this mindset that a lot of players have that "Vengeance is not PvP." It absolutely is-- unless by "PvP" they mean "Proc vs Proc"? /shrug

playsforfun · July 15

I finished it with a good 120 days left & tbh all I did was a few battlegrounds a day & a few social guild runs in cyrodiil so definitely achievable by all which is great, the rewards aren't great but it was fun to do, I wanted the sovereign title & I have it now, hopefully next time it'll be new titles & rewards cause I would happily do it again if, I quite enjoyed the change of pace even though I ain't no pvper haha

OsUfi · July 15

SkillzMFG wrote: »

I like Veterancy as well, although I think they shouldn't have made it time limited; ESO is really suffering from FOMO fatigue already!

I really don't understand the FOMO comments about veterancy. The only things they said would not return are two titles. Are people really suffering from FOMO about two titles?

ceruulean · July 15

Eat war torts and you only need like 6 mil AP after lvl 50. I already know several players who hit 100.

Iriidius · July 15

Arunei wrote: »

I feel like there are too many Vengeance buffs. A number of the rewards for hitting a VR are ONLY Vengeance stat increases, which does absolutely nothing for people who won't ever set foot into that Campaign. Every VR should reward SOMETHING that's more useful to a wider range of players and to PvP in general, not a single game mode within it.

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Seriously?

Veterancy doesn't do anything for those of us who play regular PvP in Grey Host.

Veterancy ranking was designed to encourage us to play vengeance instead of Grey Host. The veterancy system encouraged precisely zero players to move from Grey Host to vengeance.

And then at the end of the season, all progression is just erased.

So what's so great about it again?

Maybe try looking at the rewards you get as extras for doing something you are already doing?! Veterancy ranks have zero incentive to go into Vengeance so why would anyone switch?!

If you don't like Gold, Tel Var, Transmutes, Trade Bars, Crafting materials, AP scrolls, XP Scrolls, Skill Styles, Style Pages, Imperial Fragments and Titles then Veterancy is obviously not for you ... but I am left wondering what actual is?!

I have looked at the "rewards". You must not have. There is nothing for Grey Host players in the veterancy system other than low value easy to obtain materials and some style pages.

You clearly only play in vengeance and not in Grey Host if you even PvP at all. (don't mistake this comment as agreeing that vengeance is PvP.)

The highlighted part of your statement is exactly backwards from the reality of what the veterancy system is. The veterancy system only gives perks for vengeance players. There's nothing of value in the veterancy system for Grey Host players.

The veterancy system was a gimmick to draw players into vengeance. It didn't even achieve it's most fundamental goal.

Locking perks that previously you didnt had to unlock behind veterancy rank (and therefore giving a disadvantage to players with less playtime in a campaign where they go to not have a disadvantage) is not an incentive to play vengeance but the opposite and still a pretext for you to complain about vengeance.
Most vengeance players would probably prefer perks not to be locked behind veterany ranks.
However you dont want to remove perks as veterancy „rewards“ but the whole campaign.

If you think locking build choices behind veterancy ranks is an incentive to play any campaign than why dont you ask to lock build choices by veterancy rank in GreyHost? Probably because you know yourself it isnt and if ZOS did that you would call it a gimmick to draw players into vengeance either.

Other than the perks which are no reward at all and useable only in vengeance and lost when veterancy ends „there’s nothing of value in the veterancy system“ „other than low value easy to obtain materials and some style pages„ for vengeance players either.

reazea · July 15

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

(don't mistake this comment as agreeing that vengeance is PvP.)

I really don't understand this mindset that a lot of players have that "Vengeance is not PvP." It absolutely is-- unless by "PvP" they mean "Proc vs Proc"? /shrug

Is ToT PvP too then?

Gabriel_H · July 15

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Seriously?

Veterancy doesn't do anything for those of us who play regular PvP in Grey Host.

Veterancy ranking was designed to encourage us to play vengeance instead of Grey Host. The veterancy system encouraged precisely zero players to move from Grey Host to vengeance.

And then at the end of the season, all progression is just erased.

So what's so great about it again?

Maybe try looking at the rewards you get as extras for doing something you are already doing?! Veterancy ranks have zero incentive to go into Vengeance so why would anyone switch?!

If you don't like Gold, Tel Var, Transmutes, Trade Bars, Crafting materials, AP scrolls, XP Scrolls, Skill Styles, Style Pages, Imperial Fragments and Titles then Veterancy is obviously not for you ... but I am left wondering what actual is?!

I have looked at the "rewards". You must not have. There is nothing for Grey Host players in the veterancy system other than low value easy to obtain materials and some style pages.

You clearly only play in vengeance and not in Grey Host if you even PvP at all. (don't mistake this comment as agreeing that vengeance is PvP.)

The highlighted part of your statement is exactly backwards from the reality of what the veterancy system is. The veterancy system only gives perks for vengeance players. There's nothing of value in the veterancy system for Grey Host players.

The veterancy system was a gimmick to draw players into vengeance. It didn't even achieve it's most fundamental goal.

What on earth are you talking about?! /facepalm

Lets start with the Vengeance nonsense. The first 30 ranks of Veterancy come with extra perks that can be used in Vengeance. That is an incentive to do Veterancy to participate in Vengeance - not the other way around. Participating in Vengeance gives NOTHING towards Veterancy than Gray Host doesn't give.

Now the rewards:
Vengeance perks

Outfit styles (armor and weapons) exclusive to the Veterancy system
Skill styles exclusive to the Veterancy system
Titles, both seasonal and permanent
Tel Var Stones
Transmute Crystals
Trade Bars
Gold
PvP Merit Marks
Crafting materials
AP/XP scrolls

All obtainable by earning AP and XP in Gray Host, just the same as earning them in Vengeance.

Arunei · July 15

Iriidius wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

I feel like there are too many Vengeance buffs. A number of the rewards for hitting a VR are ONLY Vengeance stat increases, which does absolutely nothing for people who won't ever set foot into that Campaign. Every VR should reward SOMETHING that's more useful to a wider range of players and to PvP in general, not a single game mode within it.

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Yesterday I posted a negative about the persistent bugs in the game, today I'm going to even that out and post a positive.

As someone who plays all aspects of this game, let me congratulate you a participation reward system that absolutely smashes it out of the park. It's well balanced between effort and reward, the rewards themselves are tasty, especially in higher ranks, and the system provides a sense of accomplishment. Even casual players will be able to hit top ranks with some effort and a modicum of understanding (Use AP & XP scrolls).

All in all, a job well done. More like this please!

Seriously?

Veterancy doesn't do anything for those of us who play regular PvP in Grey Host.

Veterancy ranking was designed to encourage us to play vengeance instead of Grey Host. The veterancy system encouraged precisely zero players to move from Grey Host to vengeance.

And then at the end of the season, all progression is just erased.

So what's so great about it again?

Maybe try looking at the rewards you get as extras for doing something you are already doing?! Veterancy ranks have zero incentive to go into Vengeance so why would anyone switch?!

If you don't like Gold, Tel Var, Transmutes, Trade Bars, Crafting materials, AP scrolls, XP Scrolls, Skill Styles, Style Pages, Imperial Fragments and Titles then Veterancy is obviously not for you ... but I am left wondering what actual is?!

I have looked at the "rewards". You must not have. There is nothing for Grey Host players in the veterancy system other than low value easy to obtain materials and some style pages.

You clearly only play in vengeance and not in Grey Host if you even PvP at all. (don't mistake this comment as agreeing that vengeance is PvP.)

The highlighted part of your statement is exactly backwards from the reality of what the veterancy system is. The veterancy system only gives perks for vengeance players. There's nothing of value in the veterancy system for Grey Host players.

The veterancy system was a gimmick to draw players into vengeance. It didn't even achieve it's most fundamental goal.

Locking perks that previously you didnt had to unlock behind veterancy rank (and therefore giving a disadvantage to players with less playtime in a campaign where they go to not have a disadvantage) is not an incentive to play vengeance but the opposite and still a pretext for you to complain about vengeance.
Most vengeance players would probably prefer perks not to be locked behind veterany ranks.
However you dont want to remove perks as veterancy „rewards“ but the whole campaign.

If you think locking build choices behind veterancy ranks is an incentive to play any campaign than why dont you ask to lock build choices by veterancy rank in GreyHost? Probably because you know yourself it isnt and if ZOS did that you would call it a gimmick to draw players into vengeance either.

Other than the perks which are no reward at all and useable only in vengeance and lost when veterancy ends „there’s nothing of value in the veterancy system“ „other than low value easy to obtain materials and some style pages„ for vengeance players either.

Why are you quoting me? You're making assumptions to back up your argument and that's never a good thing to do; I rarely PvP. I'm not "complaining about Vengeance" because I have not and will not ever step foot into it. Not because I think it's bad or wrong or stupid or whatever, I just prefer doing normal PvP when I do do it. I also don't understand why you're trying to act like I'm saying this isn't an incentive to play Vengeance? Read my words again: I said for the majority of people who DON'T and NEVER WILL play Vengeance, the fact that buffs for that PvP mode ONLY apply to it are pointless. You unlock a VR and get nothing from it that's going to benefit you in any way.

Please don't speak for what I "want removed" from anything. I've never said a single time in any of my posts that Vengeance shouldn't exist. Again, read what I actually said. I never said the Vengeance buffs should be removed entirely. I said any buffs that a VR unlocks should be applicable for for a wider range of PvP modes rather than just one. That in no way means "oh remove stuff from Vengeance!"