An Update from the ESO Team

Destai · July 13

baratron wrote: »

Both Jessica and Jason Barnes (Associate Design Director) told us at the ESO Tavern event yesterday that Zenimax Online Studios is at the same size now as it was when they made both Wrothgar and Summerset.

So while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), the game is definitely not going into maintenance mode yet.

On one hand, that's reassuring.

On another, it's hard not to hear that and interpret that they've done less with more. If I look at content released in the last 2 years, it's really light in comparison. And if I compare story writing in the last 6, the picture looks even worse.

I get there's new management now, so maybe it'll get better. But we'll see once the dust settles.

I will say though - things have been pretty rocky with the new management. Solstice and content onwards has been problematic. The communication front is vastly improved, but the big picture stuff I worry is still being tamed.

Destai · July 13

baratron wrote: »

BenNordish wrote: »

I would like to be hopeful. But what makes me very skeptical is a very big flaw in the new strategy of ESO. Jessica and Jason talked at the ESO Tavern a very lot about player feedback and doing what the players want. How do they plan to achieve to get feedback from the players and do what the players want, while firing all the community managers whose job it is to keep up the communication with the players? That doesn't work!?

Microsoft doesn't understand the role of the Community Manager. They simply do not understand the need to communicate directly with the players who buy the game.

They don't understand that player feedback cannot be sent directly to the Devs. What Dev wants to read the ranting screeds we get on these forums sometimes about how a new feature is all [snip] broken, and someone wasted a [snip]-load of time trying to get the [snip] thing to work, and now they're super angry and praying to Molag Bal for a curse on all ZOS Devs? The Community Managers read the rants and turn them into useful, actionable statements like "Many players are reporting a bug with [action] at [location] during [quest name]."

Fortunately, we still have @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_Amy, and @ZOS_Kevin here working for the English speakers of the world. Hopefully there are still some international CMs left (the UK lost ours last year) for the other player language groups.

I believe this is where a shift in thinking is needed from ZOS and likely Microsoft. The developers should be present on their own forums, especially given the rather strong moderation we have here and AI tools available.

I've heard many times from the community that feedback isn't reaching the developers. Given how some issues have persisted for years, I think there's some merit there. Prior to the mighty @ZOS_Kevin joining, that problem seemed quite acute. And even now, he has limits because he's just one person and isn't technical. Because of that, feedback or developer questions aren't always answered, or even asked.

We saw that here, where it took Rich coming in to describe a problem, even though we were told "no updates" for months. And that's with months - months - of us giving them the tools to ask the right questions. To me, that said they're not even entertaining our suggestions for communicating better, they're sticking with whatever MO they have as a team. That's precisely where CMs become a bottleneck. I'm speaking purely on a process level, not pointing fingers.

I also think it's important to see when their designs upset people.

Take the whole Staff of Worms debacle. That genuinely irked people off. They need to see that so they don't do it again.

Or combat changes where people have provided parses or other detailed feedback - I absolutely expect someone like @ZOS_BrianWheeler to be in those discussions. If it's uncomfortable, sorry, but then maybe the changes and thinking need to be reconsidered.

I worry if it just filters through a CM, a developer can scoff it away, and continue doing whatever they're doing. I'm saying that as a developer myself. There's a difference between a PM telling me something's an issue, vs the client being candid with me. One's more impactful than the other.

Fundamentally, the game's entertainment, and they need to know when it's not feeling like it.

Now, that's not to say CMs don't provide value. They do. I think that value is better realized in patch notes, in facilitating discussions, AMAs, and overall studio updates. Let's say a developer chimes in on a issue initially, acknowledges it, and then the CMs provide a summary across multiple dev teams. The PTS summaries have been great because they show us how they understand the issues, not just how we've reported them.

anadandy · July 13

IMO, Microsoft doesn't value community activities. I mean pretty much the first thing (hyperbolically) they did after acquiring ZOS was cancel the NA Anniversary event, and now they're slashing the community management/outreach teams.

Kelinmiriel · 1:06AM

Destai wrote: »

From an overall business perspective, I can see why the creator programs and stream team initiatives would be sunsetted.

I have to completely disagree with you there - assuming they are, and I don't know that they have been.

The Creator Programs and Stream Team initiatives are advertising for the game and enhancement for the game, and as far as I know, they don't actually pay any money. They provide in-game rewards. So all positive, and no real cost. (I know someone who's getting rewards from the Creator Program who's put in a tremendous effort over many years and contributed massively to player enjoyment, who is getting in-game rewards. Not real money.)

So all they cost is a little effort from an employee to maintain them. That's it. And the benefits are tremendous.

Kelinmiriel · 1:12AM

Imperial_Archmage wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Vonnegut2506 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

To anyone who is saying they've cancelled their subscription, or now plan to not buy the Premium or Premium+ version of the Season One update as a way of showing their displeasure with this, I can only ask why you think that taking your anger out on ZOS as a way of trying to get back at Asha Sharman/XBOX/Microsoft is a good idea? It seems to me more like refusing to aid a victim of violence in order to punish the thug who attacked them. Giving aid to the victim does not show that you support the perpetrator; quite the contrary.

So we should continue to pay for a product with an unclear future just because you say we should? That makes sense in your world I suppose, much like your analogy about not paying for a product being similar to not helping a victim of physical assault.

I wont say that if you dont like a product that you should buy it. That is a personal choice and one should not chase after something if you dont want it, regardless of that reason.

But please understand me when I say that a mass cancelation of subs and premium wont help make positive changes to the game. If Microsoft and Xbox ceo see ESO as a losing endeavor right at this moment and want to start sunsetting it, then a mass cancelation will provide confirmation bias, and they will accelerate those plans.

Honestly the best thing to do as a player is to wait... wait and see what is said, what timelines are changed, and how fast we get there. That will tell us more about the condition of the game than anything else.

So what do you suggest? That we continue to reward them with our money when they’ve just reduced their work force by half which will inevitably lead to us not getting any meaningful updates to the game in the foreseeable future. What kind of signal does that send!? You talk about “confirmation bias” but these CEOs already believe they know what’s best so if they don’t see a dip in revenue that proves them wrong they will not act or deviate from their current course of action.

If they see a drop in revenue from ESO, they will simply use that as an excuse to end the game. Is that what you want?

If you want to "vote with your wallet", boycott all other Microsoft products, and tell them why.

Stopping support for ESO will hurt the people who are still working for ZOS and still trying their best to make this game as good as they can for us. Why are so many people assuming the game is going downhill and deciding to cancel without even giving them a chance?

Can't you give them a chance?

Muizer · 9:34AM

Destai wrote: »

I believe this is where a shift in thinking is needed from ZOS and likely Microsoft. The developers should be present on their own forums, especially given the rather strong moderation we have here and AI tools available.

I've heard many times from the community that feedback isn't reaching the developers. Given how some issues have persisted for years, I think there's some merit there. Prior to the mighty @ZOS_Kevin joining, that problem seemed quite acute. And even now, he has limits because he's just one person and isn't technical. Because of that, feedback or developer questions aren't always answered, or even asked.

We saw that here, where it took Rich coming in to describe a problem, even though we were told "no updates" for months. And that's with months - months - of us giving them the tools to ask the right questions. To me, that said they're not even entertaining our suggestions for communicating better, they're sticking with whatever MO they have as a team. That's precisely where CMs become a bottleneck. I'm speaking purely on a process level, not pointing fingers.

I also think it's important to see when their designs upset people.

Take the whole Staff of Worms debacle. That genuinely irked people off. They need to see that so they don't do it again.

Or combat changes where people have provided parses or other detailed feedback - I absolutely expect someone like @ZOS_BrianWheeler to be in those discussions. If it's uncomfortable, sorry, but then maybe the changes and thinking need to be reconsidered.

I worry if it just filters through a CM, a developer can scoff it away, and continue doing whatever they're doing. I'm saying that as a developer myself. There's a difference between a PM telling me something's an issue, vs the client being candid with me. One's more impactful than the other.

Fundamentally, the game's entertainment, and they need to know when it's not feeling like it.

Now, that's not to say CMs don't provide value. They do. I think that value is better realized in patch notes, in facilitating discussions, AMAs, and overall studio updates. Let's say a developer chimes in on a issue initially, acknowledges it, and then the CMs provide a summary across multiple dev teams. The PTS summaries have been great because they show us how they understand the issues, not just how we've reported them.

It is well recognized that shielding developers from distractions and interruptions is key to their productivity. It's the nature of the job and the people doing it. So no, you really should not want developers to get caught in the kind of unstructured, interactive relationship with the players. That would be incredibly inefficient.