An Update from the ESO Team

WittyWindwalker · July 10

The employees should buy the company and then run it as an employee run gaming studio.

StackonClown · July 10

WittyWindwalker wrote: »

The employees should buy the company and then run it as an employee run gaming studio.

ok, couple spare billion ?

Yökarhu · July 10

shadoza wrote: »

O'kay, I get it. You don't want facts; reassurance.

I want communication. My ESO+ is still running for few months I'm in no hurry moneywise. But the progress group I was planning to join, doesn't really appeal right now. Why would I wanna invest hours a day in activity if it leads to nothing? The fact that they haven't told us anything about the future speaks loudly though.

Ei8htba11 · July 10

Yökarhu wrote: »

...Why would I wanna invest hours a day in activity if it leads to nothing? The fact that they haven't told us anything about the future speaks loudly though.

It's a game, it doesn't lead to anything. Not a better job, house, pay rise.. you play it for the moments and the memories, enjoy it while it lasts.

Then play something else

Wolfshade · July 10

Actually more layoffs are coming from day to day. Today starts german community event and german community manager @ZOS_KaiSchober gets a bad information too.

AleriSadasIndoril · July 10

This wave of layoffs is truly regrettable, especially since the impact in the US is even more severe than in Europe, this is likely why there are attempts to sell id Software rather than lay off staff, given that employee protection laws in France are even stronger than in Germany.
ZeniMax Media Inc. is by no means a small company:
Arkane Studios
Bethesda Softworks
id Software
MachineGames
ZeniMax Online Studios

Estimating the figures is difficult; currently, there are 213 layoffs.
ZeniMax reportedly had around 500 employees, leaving 287 meaning roughly half remain.

When ESO was being developed and subsequently released in 2014, the studio reportedly had about 150 employees, these figures suggest that this does not necessarily spell the end for ESO - we simply have to keep our fingers crossed.

In my opinion, withdrawing as a customer sends exactly the wrong signal to Microsoft and the executives in charge!

No one can say for certain how AI will evolve, but one thing is unfortunately clear: AI will result in massive job losses across all affected sectors.

Yökarhu · July 10

Ei8htba11 wrote: »

Yökarhu wrote: »

...Why would I wanna invest hours a day in activity if it leads to nothing? The fact that they haven't told us anything about the future speaks loudly though.

It's a game, it doesn't lead to anything. Not a better job, house, pay rise.. you play it for the moments and the memories, enjoy it while it lasts.

Then play something else

Many ppl, me included play the game to progress in it. Not just wonder around aimlesly. I like to have goals. And if I don't know if theose goals are achievable (via circumstances not related to me) then yes. I go do something else.

Warhawke_80 · July 10

I want to say I'm shocked and surprised...but I'm just not.

I expect more is to come.

baratron · July 11

Both Jessica and Jason Barnes (Associate Design Director) told us at the ESO Tavern event yesterday that Zenimax Online Studios is at the same size now as it was when they made both Wrothgar and Summerset.

So while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), the game is definitely not going into maintenance mode yet.

Pixiepumpkin · July 11

baratron wrote: »

Both Jessica and Jason Barnes (Associate Design Director) told us at the ESO Tavern event yesterday that Zenimax Online Studios is at the same size now as it was when they made both Wrothgar and Summerset.

So while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), the game is definitely not going into maintenance mode yet.

So we should be expect a Wrothgar or Summerset sized content sometime next year....well, we should have gotten that this last year but that did not materialize so its reasonable for people to be skeptical. Especially when the offerings have been extremely paltry since chapters were killed off.

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

baratron · July 11

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO? I'm not going to try pretending to be an expert on the studio or parent company structures, but I do know from work with UESP that a lot of marketing and such like is done by Bethesda Softworks or by Zenimax Media.

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

The layoffs were announced on Monday. Today is Saturday. Nick Giacormini, Susan Kath, and Brian Wheeler are not at the ESO Tavern because they are working on an updated Roadmap. Yes, over the weekend. They will discuss the ESO-specific information as soon as it's ready.

anadandy · July 11

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO?

I said this is another thread, but if the number is coming from that WARN link it's anyone that worked at the ZOS location in MD. Custodians, EHS, purchasing, shipping and receiving, etc. I'm not claiming the layoffs won't affect development but a corporate company has many employees that aren't directly involved in manufacturing the product.

CAB_Life · July 11

There’s three outcomes, and really only three. I’ll list them from bad to best.

1.) Harvesting phase (that’s a real term, tells you what the suits think of their customers). Game enters maintenance mode, minimal updates, more team members laid off over time, no new hires, more focus on the store, slow decline in player count from apathy or simple churn as time goes on. Game is taken offline once the profits are no longer ideal or exceed the even minimal cost of maintenance.

2.) Maintenance > Harvesting. The game continues on with a smaller headcount, smaller updates, smaller team losses, and remains profitable, which delays the harvesting/ maintenance phase by 3-4 years. I think the market competitiveness and choice will be what kills the game in the end in this instance.

3.) Slowed Cadence > Development. The team develops a new pipeline with a clearer mandate and a faster time to approval, content is slow while they ramp up, but consistent—still smaller in scale overall than what we were used to with chapters, though arguably with a more consistent cadence through the year. They hire a few new roles over time. They make good use of AI for stuff like environment modelling and texture generation, possibly even coding. They are leaner, meaner and hungry for success and the game persists for at least five years through the market crunch.

It’s not worth prognosticating more than 3-5 years because so much happens in tech and in the world that you’d simply be guessing. I still think 3 has a decent change of working out because the original ESO was only developed with 150ish people and with much more privative tools and pipelines.

The updated development roadmap and how they present it will set the tone and tell us a lot of what we need to know on the future of this game.

KalevaLaine · July 11

baratron wrote: »

Both Jessica and Jason Barnes (Associate Design Director) told us at the ESO Tavern event yesterday that Zenimax Online Studios is at the same size now as it was when they made both Wrothgar and Summerset.

So while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), the game is definitely not going into maintenance mode yet.

I think that are some good news for the moment.

Elvenheart · July 11

I’m still wondering what’s up in Winterhold. 😊

tomofhyrule · July 11

Elvenheart wrote: »

I’m still wondering what’s up in Winterhold. 😊

I’m wondering what’s happening with Classes.

If I want Winterhold, I have a whole game already that has that zone. But I don’t have a game with Wardens, Templars, or anything really cool like Artificers.

The Uninvited · July 11

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Elvenheart wrote: »

I’m still wondering what’s up in Winterhold. 😊

I’m wondering what’s happening with Classes.

If I want Winterhold, I have a whole game already that has that zone. But I don’t have a game with Wardens, Templars, or anything really cool like Artificers.

Jessica confirmed on Reddit that class reworks are still moving forward as planned.

Pixiepumpkin · July 11

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO? I'm not going to try pretending to be an expert on the studio or parent company structures, but I do know from work with UESP that a lot of marketing and such like is done by Bethesda Softworks or by Zenimax Media.

An employee at a game studio does not equate to an employee at a game studio actually working on the games themself.
Secondly, you never answered my other question.

If the amount of people working on ESO right now is the same as the people who made Wrothgar and Summerset, why are players not seeing Summerset/Wrothgar levels of quality, polish, content among others. Asserting that anything we have seen in the past year and a half is the same as what was put out during Summerset or Wrothgar would be completely disingenuous.

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

The layoffs were announced on Monday. Today is Saturday. Nick Giacormini, Susan Kath, and Brian Wheeler are not at the ESO Tavern because they are working on an updated Roadmap. Yes, over the weekend. They will discuss the ESO-specific information as soon as it's ready.

I was referring to the stucture of the company over the past year and a half. Becasue again, we are not seeing the same level of content previously paid for by customers. That is just a fact.

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO? I'm not going to try pretending to be an expert on the studio or parent company structures, but I do know from work with UESP that a lot of marketing and such like is done by Bethesda Softworks or by Zenimax Media.

An employee at a game studio does not equate to an employee at a game studio actually working on the games themself.
Secondly, you never answered my other question.

If the amount of people working on ESO right now is the same as the people who made Wrothgar and Summerset, why are players not seeing Summerset/Wrothgar levels of quality, polish, content among others. Asserting that anything we have seen in the past year and a half is the same as what was put out during Summerset or Wrothgar would be completely disingenuous.

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

The layoffs were announced on Monday. Today is Saturday. Nick Giacormini, Susan Kath, and Brian Wheeler are not at the ESO Tavern because they are working on an updated Roadmap. Yes, over the weekend. They will discuss the ESO-specific information as soon as it's ready.

I was referring to the stucture of the company over the past year and a half. Becasue again, we are not seeing the same level of content previously paid for by customers. That is just a fact.

Dude is on a mission to convince everyone that the world is ending

CptTekashi · July 11

Wolfshade wrote: »

Actually more layoffs are coming from day to day. Today starts german community event and german community manager @ZOS_KaiSchober gets a bad information too.

Wait what..... He's literally at the ESO Tavern ? I just watched the stream ?

Syldras · July 11

CptTekashi wrote: »

Wolfshade wrote: »

Actually more layoffs are coming from day to day. Today starts german community event and german community manager @ZOS_KaiSchober gets a bad information too.

Wait what..... He's literally at the ESO Tavern ? I just watched the stream ?

It's mentioned in this thread at the German forum:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/695718/ein-update-vom-eso-team
Very sad.

Pixiepumpkin · July 11

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO? I'm not going to try pretending to be an expert on the studio or parent company structures, but I do know from work with UESP that a lot of marketing and such like is done by Bethesda Softworks or by Zenimax Media.

An employee at a game studio does not equate to an employee at a game studio actually working on the games themself.
Secondly, you never answered my other question.

If the amount of people working on ESO right now is the same as the people who made Wrothgar and Summerset, why are players not seeing Summerset/Wrothgar levels of quality, polish, content among others. Asserting that anything we have seen in the past year and a half is the same as what was put out during Summerset or Wrothgar would be completely disingenuous.

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

The layoffs were announced on Monday. Today is Saturday. Nick Giacormini, Susan Kath, and Brian Wheeler are not at the ESO Tavern because they are working on an updated Roadmap. Yes, over the weekend. They will discuss the ESO-specific information as soon as it's ready.

I was referring to the stucture of the company over the past year and a half. Becasue again, we are not seeing the same level of content previously paid for by customers. That is just a fact.

Dude is on a mission to convince everyone that the world is ending

Incorrect. Simply pointing out the fallacy in many posts.

If the amount of people working on ESO is the same amount today, as it was during Wrothgar and Summerset (as its been suggested), why are we not seeing Wrothgar and Summerset levels of content for easily going on 2 years now? This quandry is even more interesting because if the team size now is the same as Wrothgar/Summerset era, we can perform an elementary deduction to understand that the amount of people working on ESO for the past year VASTLY EXCEED the amount of people who worked during the Summerset/Wrothgar era.

Why are more devs producing vastly less content, not just in what is coming out but in quality? Sub-classing was a reshuffling of assets already made, number tweaks and UI creation, not much besides that. Solstace has been the most paltry offering to date.

You and your friends can try to defame me (which is against the forum rules), but I am just asking questions that no one has been able to answer.

Pixiepumpkin · July 11

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

[snip]

I am not here to debate, I asked a question that AGAIN has yet to be answered by anyone.

You assert the game will be fine, I explained why I don't think it will be based on ZOS track record regarding development of ESO over the past couple years. That, the situation that was already bad (with more people) will most likely only get worse.

Part of the issue is, imo, your perspective. You PVP, all you need are class redesigns/balance passes to be happy. You consume the same PVP content over and over, and that is fine. I PVP'd for the majority of my online gaming life.

But you are an exception to the rule. Most ESO players like the story, PVE, the content, the fleshing out of the Elder Scrolls universe. This happened with chapters, its not really happening with seasons, which are proving to be little more than battle passes.

So, if the game was already slowing down regarding content releases, and they NOW have less people. How in the 7 hells do you honestly think the game is going to get better? That MORE content will be produced.

Logically the position you and many others hold here is one of extreme optimism, but optimism based on pure hope, not the facts, not the reality of what is happening.

Contrary to what you and others think, I don't want to see the game fail. My family has well over 5k invested into the game. I'd like to play it, but lately they have offered nothing of value for me to play the game much less pay for it.

Anyway. Good night. England won, I am off to bed

EDIT: as a side note. I thought you and I were having a good, friendly conversation in the thread I started that was shut down. Not so sure why your discorse with me here has been mean spirited with constant snide commentary.
[edited to remove quote]

Arunei · July 11

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO? I'm not going to try pretending to be an expert on the studio or parent company structures, but I do know from work with UESP that a lot of marketing and such like is done by Bethesda Softworks or by Zenimax Media.

An employee at a game studio does not equate to an employee at a game studio actually working on the games themself.
Secondly, you never answered my other question.

If the amount of people working on ESO right now is the same as the people who made Wrothgar and Summerset, why are players not seeing Summerset/Wrothgar levels of quality, polish, content among others. Asserting that anything we have seen in the past year and a half is the same as what was put out during Summerset or Wrothgar would be completely disingenuous.

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

The layoffs were announced on Monday. Today is Saturday. Nick Giacormini, Susan Kath, and Brian Wheeler are not at the ESO Tavern because they are working on an updated Roadmap. Yes, over the weekend. They will discuss the ESO-specific information as soon as it's ready.

I was referring to the stucture of the company over the past year and a half. Becasue again, we are not seeing the same level of content previously paid for by customers. That is just a fact.

Dude is on a mission to convince everyone that the world is ending

Incorrect. Simply pointing out the fallacy in many posts.

If the amount of people working on ESO is the same amount today, as it was during Wrothgar and Summerset (as its been suggested), why are we not seeing Wrothgar and Summerset levels of content for easily going on 2 years now? This quandry is even more interesting because if the team size now is the same as Wrothgar/Summerset era, we can perform an elementary deduction to understand that the amount of people working on ESO for the past year VASTLY EXCEED the amount of people who worked during the Summerset/Wrothgar era.

Why are more devs producing vastly less content, not just in what is coming out but in quality? Sub-classing was a reshuffling of assets already made, number tweaks and UI creation, not much besides that. Solstace has been the most paltry offering to date.

You and your friends can try to defame me (which is against the forum rules), but I am just asking questions that no one has been able to answer.

Have you never heard of the saying "too many cooks spoils the broth"? It's entirely possible ESO was one of those games that had a huge excess of managerial overhead. More people that work and communication needs to pass through means the longer it takes for things to get through that pipeline. Look at how long we sometimes have to wait for responses to things on the forums; it's entirely possible that it takes that long because of having to get the clearance from people higher up (who can't just be asked, it has to go through the ladder to get there, then go through the ladder again).

Pixiepumpkin · July 11

Arunei wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

Secondly, working at Zenimax and working on ESO are not the same. One can work at Zenimax and not work on ESO.

ZOS only has one game now: ESO. What precisely do you think that any ZOS employees would do if not working on ESO? I'm not going to try pretending to be an expert on the studio or parent company structures, but I do know from work with UESP that a lot of marketing and such like is done by Bethesda Softworks or by Zenimax Media.

An employee at a game studio does not equate to an employee at a game studio actually working on the games themself.
Secondly, you never answered my other question.

If the amount of people working on ESO right now is the same as the people who made Wrothgar and Summerset, why are players not seeing Summerset/Wrothgar levels of quality, polish, content among others. Asserting that anything we have seen in the past year and a half is the same as what was put out during Summerset or Wrothgar would be completely disingenuous.

baratron wrote: »

Pixiepumpkin wrote: »

The fact that ESO specifc information has not been released/discussed is telling in and of itself.

The layoffs were announced on Monday. Today is Saturday. Nick Giacormini, Susan Kath, and Brian Wheeler are not at the ESO Tavern because they are working on an updated Roadmap. Yes, over the weekend. They will discuss the ESO-specific information as soon as it's ready.

I was referring to the stucture of the company over the past year and a half. Becasue again, we are not seeing the same level of content previously paid for by customers. That is just a fact.

Dude is on a mission to convince everyone that the world is ending

Incorrect. Simply pointing out the fallacy in many posts.

If the amount of people working on ESO is the same amount today, as it was during Wrothgar and Summerset (as its been suggested), why are we not seeing Wrothgar and Summerset levels of content for easily going on 2 years now? This quandry is even more interesting because if the team size now is the same as Wrothgar/Summerset era, we can perform an elementary deduction to understand that the amount of people working on ESO for the past year VASTLY EXCEED the amount of people who worked during the Summerset/Wrothgar era.

Why are more devs producing vastly less content, not just in what is coming out but in quality? Sub-classing was a reshuffling of assets already made, number tweaks and UI creation, not much besides that. Solstace has been the most paltry offering to date.

You and your friends can try to defame me (which is against the forum rules), but I am just asking questions that no one has been able to answer.

Have you never heard of the saying "too many cooks spoils the broth"? It's entirely possible ESO was one of those games that had a huge excess of managerial overhead. More people that work and communication needs to pass through means the longer it takes for things to get through that pipeline. Look at how long we sometimes have to wait for responses to things on the forums; it's entirely possible that it takes that long because of having to get the clearance from people higher up (who can't just be asked, it has to go through the ladder to get there, then go through the ladder again).

I am well aware of this saying, but the names release so far are not all management types. We lost good writers, some good folks. Had the layoff list been manager A through Z, I'd be right here with ya, but that is not what has happened.

I still can't shake the ideas that more people produced Solstace and the battle pass (no real content) and less people produced Summerset/Orsinium

The maths ain't mathing.

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

Neither you nor I know what will happen. New leadership has shown great promise over the last 6 months, internal culture seems to be shifting in a positive direction, and because of that I choose to be hopeful. If this had happened under the previous guard I would not be so hopeful. I think the fact that the quality of the content has been in steady decline for years probably means there are opportunities for improvement now that some of those responsible for said decline are out of the picture. Not that I am happy about anyone losing their jobs. We now know the studio is adequately staffed, and with strong leadership at the helm. I predict a rocky 2027 while people learn their new roles and hopefully a strong 2028 and beyond, especially with TES VI hype on the horizon.

You've had your say many many times. We won't need you to educate us. You don't know any more than the rest of us.

BenNordish · July 12

I would like to be hopeful. But what makes me very skeptical is a very big flaw in the new strategy of ESO. Jessica and Jason talked at the ESO Tavern a very lot about player feedback and doing what the players want. How do they plan to achieve to get feedback from the players and do what the players want, while firing all the community managers whose job it is to keep up the communication with the players? That doesn't work!?

ketsparrowhawk · July 12

BenNordish wrote: »

I would like to be hopeful. But what makes me very skeptical is a very big flaw in the new strategy of ESO. Jessica and Jason talked at the ESO Tavern a very lot about player feedback and doing what the players want. How do they plan to achieve to get feedback from the players and do what the players want, while firing all the community managers whose job it is to keep up the communication with the players? That doesn't work!?

They are just as adequately staffed as they've ever been. Other employees will take over those roles and responsibilities.

Pixiepumpkin · July 12

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Neither you nor I know what will happen.

Which makes your opinion about the direction of the game just as invalid as mine.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

New leadership has shown great promise over the last 6 months,

I vehemently disagree.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

internal culture seems to be shifting in a positive direction

Really? Have you ever worked in a design studio (I have). When layoffs like this happen, the "culture" does not shift positive, in fact its quite the opposite because everyone starts to wonder if their head will be on the chopping block next. Because of this, many will choose to find new work that has more stability, even if it means less pay.
Maryland is extremely expensive to live in. It only takes one or two months for rent/mortgage to blow through ones savings. The employees do not have the luxury of waiting around to see if they wll have a job in the near future, ESPECIALLY with reports that more layoffs are coming in December 2026.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

, and because of that I choose to be hopeful.

And I choose to be realistic. Being hopeful is not going to give you a solid game play if things go awry, being realistic will.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

If this had happened under the previous guard I would not be so hopeful. I think the fact that the quality of the content has been in steady decline for years probably means there are opportunities for improvement now that some of those responsible for said decline are out of the picture.

The decline is due to a lack of people working on the project. I am amazed you can't see this. Go play through Orsinium and Summerset, then Solstace and compare them. From the amount of quests, to the zone size, assets created, skill lines etc. You are conflating employee numbers with those people working on ESO. That is clearly not the case. ESO feels like its being made by a skeleton crew.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Not that I am happy about anyone losing their jobs. We now know the studio is adequately staffed, and with strong leadership at the helm. I predict a rocky 2027 while people learn their new roles and hopefully a strong 2028 and beyond, especially with TES VI hype on the horizon.

The population is already indecline. Subclassing killed the game for many many people. The person who headed up subclassing was let go. If subclassing was popular, they would not be letting go of the person who made it.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

You've had your say many many times. We won't need you to educate us. You don't know any more than the rest of us.

As have you.

I choose to be realistic, you choose to be optimisic, which again for the third time is why you thinik I am being negative when I am not.

The problem with toxic optimism is that its just as dooming as toxic pessimism because neither mindset prepares the person for the reality of the situation.

There is a saying.

You can wish (be hopeful) in one hand, and poo in the other. Tell me which one fills up first.

Pixiepumpkin · July 12

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

BenNordish wrote: »

I would like to be hopeful. But what makes me very skeptical is a very big flaw in the new strategy of ESO. Jessica and Jason talked at the ESO Tavern a very lot about player feedback and doing what the players want. How do they plan to achieve to get feedback from the players and do what the players want, while firing all the community managers whose job it is to keep up the communication with the players? That doesn't work!?

They are just as adequately staffed as they've ever been. Other employees will take over those roles and responsibilities.

If so, then how come they have to adjust the roadmap?

The maths ain't mathing.