Regarding "ESO is dead" sentiment in light of the layoffs

IviRo · July 11

Syldras wrote: »

Do we know how much content for the Daedric War story arc (Morrowind, CWC, Summerset) was already pre-planned during base game development (which took many years)? I remember replaying base game stories and getting the impression that there were quite a few aspects that already hinted at what we later got in the Daedric War story. What I mean is: They might have not started development of those chapters from scratch each year, but might already have had lots of material/content available what was already produced earlier.

Initially, Summerset had a different plot, as well as a visual effect, but in 2015 they changed everything when the game director changed.

IviRo · July 11

ADarklore wrote: »

Isn't this exactly how the end of New World started? Layoffs here... layoffs there... until there was barely anyone left. Then even after they produced an awesome piece of content... Amazon pulled the plug anyway. It's pretty clear IMO that Microsoft regrets all the gaming investment- considering their push for AI... and considering the new head of gaming came from an AI department and was never a gamer. It's interesting how they say their focus, in part, is on the Elder Scrolls franchise, and yet they pull the rug out from under the Elder Scrolls franchise. ES6 isn't even expected until maybe 2028-2029, so why scuttle ESO now, especially when it's still making money? My guess is, they are planning to wind down ALL their gaming investments over time. In an era when studies have shown that Gen-Z isn't interested in AAA games and only wants mobile or retro games, the future of AAA games and gaming in general is in dire straits. NO studio would even be interested in purchasing another in the current climate, so the only thing Microsoft can do is wind things down, take a loss, and hope that AI investment makes up for it. Sad.

ASG completely disbanded their gaming division and decided to focus on movies and other ideas, that's the real reason. Xbox is a different situation, so it's not entirely correct to make such comparisons, as well as to compare with Bungie, which had huge problems, and there have been fewer than 5,000 players online in recent years.

Seraphayel · July 11

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It's unfortunately pretty reminiscent of what Amazon did to New World. New World was suffering for a long time, the game finally became successful and the player count was skyrocketing and then they just nuked the whole thing.

No, it wasn't, that was the problem. NW player count spiked once a year to 50,000 at new content release, and then within 2 months was back down below 5,000 for the rest of the year. That isn't a stable player base, and it is not stable revenue.

People are in complete denial about New World. That game was a flop ever since its launch. It had its annual peaks with content releases, but they were a fracture of what they once had.

Also, New World‘s in game shop was completely awful and not in the slightest comparable to ESO. That game was doomed ever since, not only did the devs not know what they were doing - shown by multiple game breaking bugs that occurred over the years - but the monetization was also awful.

AzuraFan · July 11

baratron wrote: »

Some good news for a change. This is important.

According to both Jason Barnes (Associate Design Director) and Jessica Folsom (Associate Director of Community Management), Zenimax Online Studios is now at the same size as it was when they made both Wrothgar and Summerset.

Which, as we know, are both highly acclaimed DLCs.

So while the layoffs are extremely upsetting for everyone involved (of course including players), this is not necessarily the end of new content or the game going into maintenance mode.

Nick Giacomini (Game Director) and Susan Kath (Studio Executive Producer) are specifically not at the ESO Tavern because they're working on the new Roadmap of when content will be released. It really is not the end yet.

Also @ZOS_Amy and @ZOS_Kevin have been confirmed to still be at the studio.

This is great news! It's unfortunate that so many were laid off, but at least there's hope for the future of the game. As always, I'm waiting for the updated roadmap to see what's coming.

Since season one released, my time in ESO has increased. I'm enjoying the dynamic events (except for the wait time - we need a timer in the three affected zones), and the challenges are also more enjoyable than the first season. I haven't even started the TG quests yet, except to see Quen in the beginning. Also, they got the rewards right for favours. Finally there's good loot dropping.

My only niggle is the premium items in the tome. They definitely need to up their game here to get more people to buy in. When you compare what you get at the premium level to the free tier, there's too much trash (crown meals, poisons, etc.). Still, I'll likely buy it to support the studio. I want the game to succeed and keep going!

Vrienda · July 11

So long as the game gets content I want to play, I'll keep playing and maybe buy a month of sub here and there. I'd rather ESO not die but I've played dying games until their last day before and I'll do the same here.

Arunei · July 11

colossalvoids wrote: »

The sizing means not much honestly when the brain leakage is at question, mostly. Who's in charge of dungeons now, how competent they are not only as developers but as players, do they share the same sentiments as players for whom the content is created? I knew the answers prior to that with Finny being in charge, now I have no idea when the "torch bearer" is out of the picture. We were in already quite clear maintenance mode for awhile, what's changing for a better now with such a massive layoffs?

In what way has the game already been in maintenance mode? People have been claiming the game is dying ever since it launched.

Keep in mind that more people doesn't mean more work gets done faster. Often times too many people cause delays because of the number of people work and communication needs to travel between. It's possible that was the case here, where there were a lot of people that any work needed to go through before it could be started or progressed.

Warhawke_80 · July 11

All I know that whoever is in charge at Microsoft X box is gutting studios right and left....I don't know if it is correction because of previously bad hiring practices or that MS umbrella of Games in general are bleeding money.

But whatever it is I don't think it's over....and I do believe that all the triple A game studios are getting out of MMO's ...So I guess we can look forward to more Fortnite Clones and Cozy games

Frayton · July 11

Arunei wrote: »

In what way has the game already been in maintenance mode? People have been claiming the game is dying ever since it launched.

To be fair, it almost did go under until One Tamriel brought it back to life, and it's been steadily declining for years now.

The Elder Scrolls franchise still has some life in it, but for ESO specifically, it doesn't look too good.

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

All I know that whoever is in charge at Microsoft X box is gutting studios right and left....I don't know if it is correction because of previously bad hiring practices or that MS umbrella of Games in general are bleeding money.

But whatever it is I don't think it's over....and I do believe that all the triple A game studios are getting out of MMO's ...So I guess we can look forward to more Fortnite Clones and Cozy games

XBOX acquired a ton of studios during the pandemic and made the unusual decision of *not* restructuring/absorbing those studios into the company. If these layoffs had happened in 2021 it would have been unfortunate but expected since that's what happens after an acquisition. At some point the parent company was bound to wonder why the gaming division needs 20 HR departments, etc.

ketsparrowhawk · July 11

Frayton wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

In what way has the game already been in maintenance mode? People have been claiming the game is dying ever since it launched.

To be fair, it almost did go under until One Tamriel brought it back to life, and it's been steadily declining for years now.

The Elder Scrolls franchise still has some life in it, but for ESO specifically, it doesn't look too good.

ESO has been riding on the success and popularity of Skyrim. I think TES VI will breathe new life into ESO. Especially once people finish TES VI and are primed for more Elder Scrolls.. which is exactly why I'm here. Finished Skyrim and wanted more. I have to imagine there are plans for ESO to capitalize on the TES VI hype. New leadership has shown great promise and they have the potential for some major success on the horizon.

colossalvoids · July 11

Arunei wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

The sizing means not much honestly when the brain leakage is at question, mostly. Who's in charge of dungeons now, how competent they are not only as developers but as players, do they share the same sentiments as players for whom the content is created? I knew the answers prior to that with Finny being in charge, now I have no idea when the "torch bearer" is out of the picture. We were in already quite clear maintenance mode for awhile, what's changing for a better now with such a massive layoffs?

In what way has the game already been in maintenance mode? People have been claiming the game is dying ever since it launched.

It's not about "death", it's about when they've decided that the old system is "unsustainable" anymore and they've got rid of chapters as we knew them, instead getting meal piece updates with reused assets and long standing asks from the community (which are good on one side but without the ordinary release cadence it's not really much usable outside of running old content all over again). Everyone decides maintenance differently from NW situation to a game that's already "peaked" and now just trying to sustain itself without anymore trying to surpass their previous victories or when their game space (PvP for example) gets a maintenance mode whilst the game continues in other departments, but outside of forums ESO was considered on a maintenance mode for some time already, at least since the last year if not counting last mediocre chapters as such a decline.

Umbracat449 · July 11

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

Fine by me, I have no interest in a debate over morality when discussing a business, whose only goal is to earn money.

This isnt a place to discuss yalls gripes with capitalism, its not going to change that zenimax and bethesda, and microsoft are businesses first and foremost.

I agree with this. The other nonsense you were refuting doesnt need mentioning.

Bad decisions by various businesses are now ending with cuts and change, as always happens. Microsoft put itself in a hole in an industry it clearly doesnt understand, and it has to get out of it somehow.

The bigger shame is Zos can't spin out to independence because zos needs Bethesda and Microsoft wants bethesda, to keep the potential revenue from that studio and ES6.

But unless Bethesda radically improves how it does games, it risks another mess like it's sci fi project. Gaming has changed but I'm not sure Bethesda has kept up. Not sure what Microsoft will do if ES6 isn't a smash hit, but it won't be pretty.

Presumably the numbers zos has lost bring it within the cost/ profit ratios of this reset demanded by microsoft, but, longer term, cuts isn't enough, zos needs to also release something that will attract players and see them spend and improve their profits.

Zos has a lot of work to do. It has to finish updating the classes, working on combat, and even tho it's an mmo, i think players just want great elder scrolls stories to play. I hope zos figures out how to do all that soon.

guarstompemoji · July 12

I do not see a TES VI. ESO is too profitable, one. Two, why not shift personnel instead of firing them?

The problem always and will be the yacht class. They are not like us. They compete to see who have the most billions, even though it does nothing for them. They buy multiple yachts bc other billionaires do. It's an extreme "keeping up w the Joneses."

They're a boring group of people. I can't emphasize that enough. Boring, whose values are so out of perspective that harming tens of thousands...they can't imagine it as impactful. They have no perspective. No truth. No reality.

What we do, is care for one another. We support one another. We stand for a better culture that supports creativity and small business. That supports community.

Younger generations might not be playing AAA, but it's a monetary issue, just why they aren't having kids. That's a whole diff thing, also the fault of the yachts.

We support one another. We need better. We deserve better.

I am gutted by this loss. But I do not blame our ESO buddies. I blame the unfeeling, boring yachts, who couldn't be bothered to write a real letter, just something filtered thru AI. They lack that inherit understanding. ...which is, why, ultimately, and bc we are human, we focus on one another.

The ESO writers, artists, dreamers matter. Thank you, from the bottom of our hearts.

Gabriel_H · July 12

AlterBlika · July 12

The game has been suffering from mismanagement for a long time. If anything, something may finally change now

KrazyKaren874 · July 12

AlterBlika wrote: »

The game has been suffering from mismanagement for a long time. If anything, something may finally change now

And this continues to this day. [snip]

[edited for discussing moderation]

kafedristoran · July 12

Neverwinter mmo is still alive but this is the type of life when you realize that it would be better if it died.
Stagnation for years, almost no new content, absolutely enormous monetization of everything. This might be a future of ESO, I hope it is not.

Glorious_Platypus · July 12

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It's unfortunately pretty reminiscent of what Amazon did to New World. New World was suffering for a long time, the game finally became successful and the player count was skyrocketing and then they just nuked the whole thing.

No, it wasn't, that was the problem. NW player count spiked once a year to 50,000 at new content release, and then within 2 months was back down below 5,000 for the rest of the year. That isn't a stable player base, and it is not stable revenue.

[snip] Maybe not ANYMORE, but when ESO came out its cash shop was seen as absolutely unacceptable to most gamers. So it never caught on with a significant amount of people. It matters it really does and these companies never seem to "get" it, that if they just were more tactful then the game would appeal to MORE people and thus make them more money.

[edited for conspiracy]

joergino · July 12

As far as I know the game didn't even have a cash shop when it was released (at least until it no longer required the subscription). But I'm convinced the entire horrific inventory mess and all the completely unnecessary trait and style materials plus all the other junk were already in the game and made people quit after mere hours in the game.

Gabriel_H · July 13

Glorious_Platypus wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Rkindaleft wrote: »

It's unfortunately pretty reminiscent of what Amazon did to New World. New World was suffering for a long time, the game finally became successful and the player count was skyrocketing and then they just nuked the whole thing.

No, it wasn't, that was the problem. NW player count spiked once a year to 50,000 at new content release, and then within 2 months was back down below 5,000 for the rest of the year. That isn't a stable player base, and it is not stable revenue.

The player numbers would be a lot higher if they didn't scare away so many people by being so insanely greedy with their cash shop. Maybe not ANYMORE, but when ESO came out its cash shop was seen as absolutely unacceptable to most gamers. So it never caught on with a significant amount of people. It matters it really does and these companies never seem to "get" it, that if they just were more tactful then the game would appeal to MORE people and thus make them more money.

Eh? ESO didn't have the Crown Store at launch, or a pre-cursor. The Crown Store launched alongside Tamriel Unlimited in 2015 and player numbers doubled, and kept going up. Crown Crates launched alongside One Tamriel in 2016 and player numbers tripled.

Edit: Typos

joergino · July 13

I doubt very much that the doubling or tripling of player numbers had anything whatsoever to do with the cash shop or the gambling crates as the above post seems to imply. I'm sure this had more to do with general improvements done to the game and the dropping of the mandatory subscrption.