You want players? Remove the craft bag barrier

merevie · July 8

With new management, there is the obvious elephant in the room to address.
The ONE reason ESO player base is small is the craft bag issue.
Make the craft bag free.
Yes, ESO+ may drop -but then the same people are likely to invest in the tomes instead.
And everyone else -possible 10k people-would log into ESO again/or start because there is no inventory issue anymore.
It's 2026 -free up the bank space if you actually want players.
It's not the content -it's not the graphics -it's not the age of the game.
It is this one blindly stubborn policy leashing ESO population.
And those people may well hit up the crown store...

freespirit · July 8

Personally I think the craft bag should stay right where it is, I have three subs currently and I am quite happy to support the game in this way.

Guess what though? I have amassed quite reasonable amounts of crowns from those subs but still rarely buy anything from the Crown Store!

Instead it would be more useful to actually expand Bank and Inventory space, this would help everyone, not everyone wants to craft but many people need to carry several sets of gear depending on what content they are doing.

Bank and Inventory space has never been increased(besides the pack pets) and I think it is long overdue that it should be.

ESO_player123 · July 8

merevie wrote: »

With new management, there is the obvious elephant in the room to address.
The ONE reason ESO player base is small is the craft bag issue.
Make the craft bag free.
Yes, ESO+ may drop -but then the same people are likely to invest in the tomes instead.
And everyone else -possible 10k people-would log into ESO again/or start because there is no inventory issue anymore.
It's 2026 -free up the bank space if you actually want players.
It's not the content -it's not the graphics -it's not the age of the game.
It is this one blindly stubborn policy leashing ESO population.
And those people may well hit up the crown store...

The bolded part is unlikely. If a person is not interested in those cosmetics in the first place why would dropping ESO+ change that.

IviRo · July 8

merevie wrote: »

With new management, there is the obvious elephant in the room to address.
The ONE reason ESO player base is small is the craft bag issue.
Make the craft bag free.
Yes, ESO+ may drop -but then the same people are likely to invest in the tomes instead.
And everyone else -possible 10k people-would log into ESO again/or start because there is no inventory issue anymore.
It's 2026 -free up the bank space if you actually want players.
It's not the content -it's not the graphics -it's not the age of the game.
It is this one blindly stubborn policy leashing ESO population.
And those people may well hit up the crown store...

How can you possibly want to devalue the subscribers’ contributions? I often see requests like this, but I just don’t understand—on what grounds should we give away an infinite bag for free?
I’m also happy to purchase subscriptions, chapters, Crown Crates, and Tome Tamriel, so your idea doesn’t appeal to me.

AzuraFan · July 8

freespirit wrote: »

Personally I think the craft bag should stay right where it is, I have three subs currently and I am quite happy to support the game in this way.

Guess what though? I have amassed quite reasonable amounts of crowns from those subs but still rarely buy anything from the Crown Store!

I'm the same! Happy to pay for the craft bag, but I can usually get what I want with seals. I still have all the crowns from my sub renewal in February, and some left over from my renewal before that.

ESO_player123 wrote: »

The bolded part is unlikely. If a person is not interested in those cosmetics in the first place why would dropping ESO+ change that.

Agreed. Why would subbers automatically buy tomes if they drop their subscription? Doesn't compute.

I'm also sceptical of the claim that making the craft bag free would have hordes of people returning to the game who will spend $$$ on stuff. A lot of people who currently play the game don't spend anything on it, so expecting that people who don't want to pay for a sub will return to the game and throw oodles of money at it seems naive at best. Sure, a few would, but most wouldn't pay a dime.

ArielSira · July 8

Last year they had a one time promotion for ESO plus at 6,49 I think. Even if it was just the craftbag for that price (no crowns etc) I would get it.

SilverBride · July 8

They would lose a lot of subscribers if the craft bag was free. And there is no way I'd ever buy Tomes, whether I'm subscribed or not.

Gagoimaliu · July 8

I've played maybe, 4-5 MMOS for a meaningful period of time and almost all of them have had inventory management, partly this is just we as players holding onto useless things, partly it's just game design, for example, LOTRO doesn't even let you buy inventory space for in game gold, you have to either sub to get more inventory, or buy it piecemeal in the in game store. ESO in that regard is much better because you can buy almost 200 inventory slots for completely free (meaning with in game currency) and that's not counting the bank, the guild bank, the house chests you can buy and etc.

Having no crafting bag is annoying, but it's not game breaking and it doesn't prevent you or block you from doing any content or writs. You just need to be more mindful of inventory management. They will never make the crafting bag free because it's the primary reason to buy ESO+, and the community is already up in arms as it is. Increasing the in game inventory to something like 350-400 slots, I think would be a better idea, or even up to 300.

TheAgentNZ · July 8

Glad this thread didnt go the way OP wanted. The notion that the playerbase is somehow tied to the craft bag seems a stretch.

Craft bag can stay where it is behind the small monthly ESO+ payment, not having an infinite craft bag isnt game breaking, but it would require some more time to ensure you're keeping only items you need for the activities you do in game.

kargen27 · July 8

Gagoimaliu wrote: »

I've played maybe, 4-5 MMOS for a meaningful period of time and almost all of them have had inventory management, partly this is just we as players holding onto useless things

Yep, dirty little secret is even with the crafting bag players that hoard items will always use all their space and want more. I don't subscribe on my 2nd account and inventory management is really just a bit of an inconvenience once a week or so. I do have the luxury of being able to sell most crafting material knowing I can send some over from my main account if needed but still I doubt players that left the game would jump back in for long if they all of a sudden got the crafting bag.

Jeremy · July 8

merevie wrote: »

With new management, there is the obvious elephant in the room to address.
The ONE reason ESO player base is small is the craft bag issue.
Make the craft bag free.
Yes, ESO+ may drop -but then the same people are likely to invest in the tomes instead.
And everyone else -possible 10k people-would log into ESO again/or start because there is no inventory issue anymore.
It's 2026 -free up the bank space if you actually want players.
It's not the content -it's not the graphics -it's not the age of the game.
It is this one blindly stubborn policy leashing ESO population.
And those people may well hit up the crown store...

This is a common bait and switch tactic used in online games to increase revenue. They make inventory a ____ unless you give them more money.

There is likely some corporate consultant who comes up with all these little moneymaking gimmicks and he/she is probably the most prized and highest-paid employee in the company. lol

Ace_SiN · July 9

You want the game to die faster or what? There's this misconceived notion that MMOs can survive purely off cosmetics, that's not how it works. $15/month for a crafting bag is more reliable than hoping your artists can pump out desirable looking gear every patch cycle. For me, once I've found "my look" I stick with it for quite sometime anyway. I may experiment with freebie transmogs but definitely not buying $15+/month on a costume.

ESO+ needs more value, if anything, but definitely not less. Your suggestion is also hoping the same people that already value the crafting bag will care about the Tome. That's not the case. You're suggestion only guarantees a lost at worst and introduce an unnecessary struggle to maintain a net zero. Not the best idea freshly after losing half your team and being on watch.

Jeremy · July 9

Ace_SiN wrote: »

You want the game to die faster or what? There's this misconceived notion that MMOs can survive purely off cosmetics, that's not how it works. $15/month for a crafting bag is more reliable than hoping your artists can pump out desirable looking gear every patch cycle. For me, once I've found "my look" I stick with it for quite sometime anyway. I may experiment with freebie transmogs but definitely not buying $15+/month on a costume.

ESO+ needs more value, if anything, but definitely not less. Your suggestion is also hoping the same people that already value the crafting bag will care about the Tome. That's not the case. You're suggestion only guarantees a lost at worst and introduce an unnecessary struggle to maintain a net zero. Not the best idea freshly after losing half your team and being on watch.

I think a compromise would probably be best. Keep the unlimited crafting bag as a perk of ESO plus, but give none-subscribers access to a limited crafting bag to help alleviate inventory problems. Because the OP is not wrong. A lot of players (possible future subscribers) do quit this game because they get sick of trying to manage their inventory.

carly · July 9

I expect it's paid subscriptions that are keeping the lights on at ESO. They would be crazy to do that, especially in light of the layoffs this week and the news that there are more to come over the next year. With subs, at least you have an idea of guaranteed revenue and can plan out your fiscal quarters accordingly. You can't run a company 'hoping' that people will spend money in the Crown Store, you'd be out of business sooner than later if that was your sole source of revenue.

MasterSpatula · July 9

Ace_SiN wrote: »

ESO+ needs more value, if anything, but definitely not less.

Absolutely. The primary thing the Sub was supposed to buy was all the quarterly DLCs. Everything else was a value-add. Then they devalued that by pretending Chapters aren't DLC. Fine, large content drops cost money. Then they devalued the sub by dropping the Autumn story DLCs. Not fine, but we dealt. Then they further devalued the Sub by dropping the Winter dungeon DLCs. Very not fine. Now, here we are in July with no actual new content drop this year. What ESO+ actually buys essentially doesn't exist anymore. The value-adds are all we have.

Your suggestion is also hoping the same people that already value the crafting bag will care about the Tome. That's not the case.

Preach. Once I realized my Sub would get me six Premium Tomes in a Season but I needed twelve to upgrade, I noped right out of the entire system. Further devaluing ESO+ isn't gonna make me yep back in.

Vondreas · July 9

I’m glad to finally have forum access! Thank you CouchTato.

I genuinely hope the crafting bag stays an ESO+ feature. Keeping strong, meaningful perks tied to ESO+ makes it easier to justify supporting the game long-term.

rothan117 · July 9

Having looked at the premium track for this round, there is absolutely nothing there that would motivate me to buy it regardless of whether I sub to ESO+ or not (I do, for now anyway pending finding out more about the revised roadmap)

SeaGtGruff · July 9

merevie wrote: »

And everyone else -possible 10k people-would log into ESO again/or start because there is no inventory issue anymore.

Sadly, the craft bag does not make the inventory issue go away-- although that also depends on the player and how much of a hoarder they are. Oh, the immediate result will be a tremendous increase in freed-up inventory slots, at least if most of them had been taken up by crafting mats of various types (basic mats for assorted character levels, style mats, tempering mats). But then you just start filling up those newly-available slots with more and more stuff that you may have been deconstructing, destroying, or selling before you got the craft bag, since back then you didn't have space to hang onto it but now you do.

And there are so many things that can clutter up an inventory-- furnishings, treasure maps, survey reports, style pages, and runeboxes for collectibles, to name a few.

And if you PvP in non-Vengeance Cyrodiil then you also have to devote inventory space to siege weapons of various types and repair kits. And there's also any crafted potions, poisons, or provisionings you might like to use, as well as Alliance potions and battlefield provisions, experience scrolls, etc.

Synthwavius · July 9

I'm not subbed, and while I would personally love to have it for free, I think that bigger bank/inventory space is the best compromise for the game. ESO+ needs to maintain its value and incentives, especially now when all new content is supposed to be free

M_Volsung · July 9

Remove the craft bag from ESO+ and I remove my subscription.

Thoriorz · July 9

If the craft bag were free, I would definitely cancel ESO+ on my two accounts. The only reason I have ESO+ is the craft bag; I don’t like any of the other ESO+ bonuses enough to pay for them. So yes, I’d welcome that because it would save me money, but I definitely don’t think it’ll happen because I believe a lot of players have ESO+ just like me, mainly for the craft bag.

OnnuK · July 9

Spot on. The craft bag being locked is a massive entry barrier. Look at Path of Exile 1/2—they pull in millions just through cosmetics and stash tabs while keeping content updates free. Let the Crown Store do its job. The current active player numbers just show the few who are okay with the subscription, but it completely locks out the rest.

If you aren't going to upgrade the engine or graphics in 2026, you have to sacrifice the craft bag restriction to bring people back. It's a win-win for the game's longevity.

SolarRune · July 9

The crowns you get through eso+ represent some of the best value possible.

If people are not willing to pay for eso+, I dont see that group of players buying enough crowns to make up the loss from losing eso+ income.

frogthroat · July 9

The craft bag is the biggest single reason to get ESO+. If we would get the craft bag for free, I would have not had ESO+ this whole time. If ESO+ money is peanuts compared to Crown Store or other sources, then sure. But if ESO+ is a significant income for ZOS, then there is absolutely no reason to make it free.

I don't think that many new players realise how important the craft bag is if you want to craft so I don't think it's a barrier. And those who don't care about crafting, and there are many, don't really need it anyway. And yes, there are many players who don't craft at all. They learn divines, bloodthirsty, charged and nirnhoned so they can reconstruct, but that's it.

agelonestar · July 9

I agree - inventory management is the single biggest factor in players becoming dissatisfied with the game. I see it in my guild all the time. Eventually players fade away, because they're not prepared to sub (or just can't afford to), and every activity in the game turns into an inventory management chore.

At this point, I'd give everyone the craft bag. I'd rather have more players stick around than enjoy the benefit of my subscription as the last player standing.

Perhaps subscribers could have a meaningful replacement - maybe an armoury deposit, or an unlimited furniture store?

Weesacs · July 9

I love the craft bag and I pay the reasonable sub amount each month to support the game.

You want the craft bag? Then sub.

Usureki · July 9

I think the crafting bag is indeed powerful and maybe we should have an option to rent it with in-game currency as well. But giving it freely to everyone? That would be extreme.

Malprave · July 9

The game has a lot of players and subscribers. I have played since launch and I never saw this many players as are in the game right now. I know people hate anecdotal experience but that's what I see.

IMO the layoffs are about efficiency. Zos has four or five other facilities working on this game, one as far away as Budapest Hungary, where a company was expressly purchased to make content for the Elder Scrolls Online.

I hate to see people let go, but I have a feeling that the Maryland facility was not the most efficient of workplaces. Issues with people not wanting to return to the office after the pandemic, formation of not one but two unions that cover this facility, and recent changes in management indicate a workplace with problems.

I think players are spending a lot of money on the game, but Zos Maryland facility was burning through it without delivering enough in return.

It's not about whether the craft bag is free or not.

Usureki · July 9

Malprave wrote: »

IMO the layoffs are about efficiency. Zos has four or five other facilities working on this game, one as far away as Budapest Hungary, where a company was expressly purchased to make content for the Elder Scrolls Online.

What I didn't know that! I could work for ZOS?! Sauce?

Malprave · July 9

Usureki wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

IMO the layoffs are about efficiency. Zos has four or five other facilities working on this game, one as far away as Budapest Hungary, where a company was expressly purchased to make content for the Elder Scrolls Online.

What I didn't know that! I could work for ZOS?! Sauce?

If you're in Budapest they may be hiring! I bet it's a great workplace. Full of people that are happy and eager to come into the office every day and get the job done.

Pixiepumpkin · July 9

100% agreed OP. I refuse to sub due to the inevitable that this game is facing. I'd play if I did not have to manage bags. As it stands, I log in, play a game of cards, log out. That is literally all I do. I don't want to deal with bag maintenance.

If I did not have to pay for the craft bag through ESO plus, I'd play more.