Huge Layoffs at Zenimax, a lot of ESO devs impacted

ArchangelIsraphel · July 7

Hamburglarjones wrote: »

Condolences to the team. Soulless corporations destroying everything with a glimmer of hope so the billionaire class can horde more wealth. Disgusting.

I'm put in mind of a lyric I heard in a song recently.

"You could fill a man with gold, and there'd still be room for greed."

I still can't stop thinking about how senseless it all is. There's been a huge spike in player numbers since things started getting better. Player hubs that used to be empty have been full every time I log in, I see tons of new players in low level zones. There's been a general feeling of optimism within the player base, other than the usual baseline complaints we've all had for ages. People have been subbing and playing a lot more.

You'd think the big corporations would see that, attribute it to the second wind the game was getting after Blackbird folded, and leave well enough alone. But I guess it's never enough, there's always one more dollar to be made.

The inane thing is, that in pursuit of one more dollar, they lose more money. It's madness. What's the actual goal here? It certainly isn't to care for the games actual success, the DEV team, or the players, that's for sure. I'm not even sure it's about money anymore, given that this decision will ultimately lose them profits in the long run.

Still hoping that someone will go "We hear you, we're hiring everyone back on!" but I know that's not going to happen.

Giraffon · July 7

The whole thing just doesn't seem very well thought out. Not much else to say about it.

DragonRacer · July 7

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Hamburglarjones wrote: »

Condolences to the team. Soulless corporations destroying everything with a glimmer of hope so the billionaire class can horde more wealth. Disgusting.

I'm put in mind of a lyric I heard in a song recently.

"You could fill a man with gold, and there'd still be room for greed."

I still can't stop thinking about how senseless it all is. There's been a huge spike in player numbers since things started getting better. Player hubs that used to be empty have been full every time I log in, I see tons of new players in low level zones. There's been a general feeling of optimism within the player base, other than the usual baseline complaints we've all had for ages. People have been subbing and playing a lot more.

You'd think the big corporations would see that, attribute it to the second wind the game was getting after Blackbird folded, and leave well enough alone. But I guess it's never enough, there's always one more dollar to be made.

The inane thing is, that in pursuit of one more dollar, they lose more money. It's madness. What's the actual goal here? It certainly isn't to care for the games actual success, the DEV team, or the players, that's for sure. I'm not even sure it's about money anymore, given that this decision will ultimately lose them profits in the long run.

Still hoping that someone will go "We hear you, we're hiring everyone back on!" but I know that's not going to happen.

Honestly feels like self-sabotage, but for what purpose?

And it’s zero motivation for remaining staff who 1) have to work knowing there are more lay-offs happening over the next 12 months so being “safe” today is no guarantee of future safety and 2) working hard and bringing more players in/elevating player engagement and satisfaction is potentially rewarded with being laid off.

Make. It. Make. Sense.

shadoza · July 7

JillWarrick wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Sad to hear.
I am not surprised. I have seen this behavior in gaming companies before now.

I will say a couple things that others will likely not want to hear:
It is not corporate's fault. No, it is not. Downsizing happens when a company of any size is struggling to survive. Blaming 'big corps' is unfair to the many people that make up that corporation. A corporation is not one person, it is a collection of people, some of who lost their jobs.

When a business down-sizes, the talent and skills is often not a consideration but rather who is paid more. By laying off the high-earners, and those with senor benefits more employees can be retained and spread across the jobs that are being vacated. This is not a good way of doing things, but it is a common solution made by investor-sensitive employment practices. Money. It is always about money.

When people blame corpo, they always mean the ones at the top. In this case, people are rightfully blaming Asha Sharma, Satya Nadella and the entire board of executives at Microsoft. It is factually and objectively corporate's fault here. For their severe mismanagement, for their idiotic AI investments, for their own bloated salaries and for their gigantic acquisition of Activision Blizzard.

Please don't forget that this is Microsoft we're dealing with. They're not some cutesy indie startup. They are as of the time I'm typing this the FOURTH most powerful corporation on Earth (by market cap). And I don't feel like I should list the amount of other colossally evil things they're doing right now.

I didn't expect anyone to agree. Seriously, it is so easy to blame the corporation. Your emotions do not equate to facts, j/s

shadoza · July 7

Struggling to survive?

This Multi-Trillion Dollar megacorp has posted record net profits 3 years in a row, nearly 300 billion in just the past 3 years.

Revenue is not profits.

SilverBride · July 7

What exactly are the facts?

dcrush · July 7

shadoza wrote: »

Struggling to survive?

This Multi-Trillion Dollar megacorp has posted record net profits 3 years in a row, nearly 300 billion in just the past 3 years.

Revenue is not profits.

Take a step back and read what they posted.
Almost 300 billion IS profits. The revenue is more than 700 billion.

BretonMage · July 7

DragonRacer wrote: »

This has honestly made me sick to my stomach all day.

Still feel sick.

I had hoped watching everything I loved and everyone I knew from BioWare be slowly dismantled was horrible enough and the last of it for me. I dumbly thought a franchise as large as Elder Scrolls would be safe.

Another sad lesson to never assume anything nor ever hope for anything good and long-term ever again. After an Elder Millennial lifetime of that negative reinforcement, you’d have thought I’d have learned my lesson by now.

What very little is still good in this world, AI is killing off.

But, please, everyone continue to enjoy the goofy Boomer Facebook pictures AI generates. Definitely worth the heat-death of the world that’s descending upon us. When nobody has jobs anymore after AI has “replaced” us all, who will be left to buy the products?

Yeah, I still feel sick. I woke up this morning with the shock passed but the grief is still there. And like you, I watched EA lay off the writers and creatives at Bioware, and had to grieve Dragon Age, but I thought ESO was safe for the medium term because it was so profitable. Thought Microsoft was more of a hands-off company than EA.

I don't know what the future will be like but I am utterly horrified at the devaluation of creativity and humanity we are seeing in this rapacious chase for AI. And I could never support anything AI-made, it has destroyed and continues to destroy too much: jobs, the environment, critical thinking skills, human connection in many cases. All this is just devastating to me.

Soarora · July 7

SilverBride wrote: »

What exactly are the facts?

A bunch of people got laid off, more than what OP has listed but they've been adding in more as people post on LinkedIn about it. I've seen two devs say their team is so small they don't know what they're going to do. Class refreshes are still underway and we will be given an updated roadmap when ZOS is able to share one.

Whether ZOS will die from this, if we're going to get all the content in the roadmap just at a delay, why this happened, why the people who got hit got hit, etc, are speculation.

spartaxoxo · July 7

BretonMage wrote: »

. And I could never support anything AI-made, it has destroyed and continues to destroy too much: jobs, the environment, critical thinking skills, human connection in many cases. All this is just devastating to me.

AI should never have made it beyond here's this cool new tool for Microsoft Word/Google Translate. The way corporations are trying to use it is just not something that I support either.

shadoza · July 7

dcrush wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Struggling to survive?

This Multi-Trillion Dollar megacorp has posted record net profits 3 years in a row, nearly 300 billion in just the past 3 years.

Revenue is not profits.

Take a step back and read what they posted.
Almost 300 billion IS profits. The revenue is more than 700 billion.

Check the stock activity

Revenue means nothing without knowing what the expenses were.
(Operating income does not include taxes, dividends, and other Non-operational costs.)

Keep in mind that Bethesda is not Microsoft. Microsoft is the parent company. Microsoft's income reports is not a reflection of an one of their subdivisions or investments. Companies that are financially stable do not down-size.

spartaxoxo · July 7

shadoza wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Struggling to survive?

This Multi-Trillion Dollar megacorp has posted record net profits 3 years in a row, nearly 300 billion in just the past 3 years.

Revenue is not profits.

Take a step back and read what they posted.
Almost 300 billion IS profits. The revenue is more than 700 billion.

Check the stock activity

Revenue means nothing without knowing what the expenses were.
(Operating income does not include taxes, dividends, and other Non-operational costs.)

Keep in mind that Bethesda is not Microsoft. Microsoft is the parent company. Microsoft's income reports is not a reflection of an one of their subdivisions or investments. Companies that are financially stable do not down-size.

Microsoft has talked a lot about how they are doing this because they want to pivot towards AI. They just spent 80 Billion dollars on AI data centers.

danthemann5 · July 7

Insert Curly Bill meme here...

Well...Bye.

Vraedlich · July 7

I hope someone can add extra info about as many of these as possible, so we can understand what was lost, and give flowers.

Gina is still quite young but was kind of a community mom. Remarkably fair considering the opportunities to be evil, and remarkably well informed on the game.

Finnegan hits me the hardest because we've been shown how much he was involved with, integral to so much of the workings, and he just comes across as a stellar guy.

It has been a long run, as many MMORPGs crash and burn in the space of a couple of years, but the feeling of betrayal and cold ingratitude for commitment that money can't simply buy to replace, is real.

Very concerning.

SilverBride · July 7

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Microsoft has talked a lot about how they are doing this because they want to pivot towards AI. They just spent 80 Billion dollars on AI data centers.

And Seattle is fighting back against large data centers. On June 9, the Seattle City Council voted unanimously to impose a one-year emergency moratorium on applications for new large data centers.

Marto · July 7

Nearly the entire writing team has been laid off... If not all, as we haven't yet heard from all of them.

This is absolutely inexcusable. How? How??

This is the team that has literally kept the Elder Scrolls setting and franchise alive for the past decade.

What is supposed to happen now? How are you going to release the planned Skyrim zone without anyone to write dialogue, books, songs, lore, or quests?

Hundreds of years of experience and knowledge, down the drain. This is shameful. Absolutely disgusting. At what point do studio leads have to stand up, put their foot down, and tell their bosses this cannot be allowed to happen?

MasterSpatula · July 7

Detestable. Despicable. Repressible.

dcrush · July 7

shadoza wrote: »

dcrush wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Struggling to survive?

This Multi-Trillion Dollar megacorp has posted record net profits 3 years in a row, nearly 300 billion in just the past 3 years.

Revenue is not profits.

Take a step back and read what they posted.
Almost 300 billion IS profits. The revenue is more than 700 billion.

Companies that are financially stable do not down-size.

I thought ESO was the fantasy world but it seems you’re living in a bigger one. Financially stable companies absolutely downsize if they think they can improve their profit margins.

Marto wrote: »

Nearly the entire writing team has been laid off... If not all, as we haven't yet heard from all of them.

This is absolutely inexcusable. How? How??

This is the team that has literally kept the Elder Scrolls setting and franchise alive for the past decade.

What is supposed to happen now? How are you going to release the planned Skyrim zone without anyone to write dialogue, books, songs, lore, or quests?

Hundreds of years of experience and knowledge, down the drain. This is shameful. Absolutely disgusting. At what point do studio leads have to stand up, put their foot down, and tell their bosses this cannot be allowed to happen?

This magnifies my feelings of dread that we’ll be getting AI generated stories.

iGuavaTH · July 7

Sunday Bloody Sunday

"I can't believe the news today
Oh, I can't close my eyes and make it go away

How long? How long must we sing this song?
How long? How long?
'Cause tonight
We can be as one, tonight"

When I finally was hopeful for the future of the game, this happens.
Really Asha? Killing the golden goose, or is it the holy cow?

opethmaniac · July 7

Sigh. Microsoft doing Microsoft things.
Laying off Gina Bruno—ZOS’s popular public face—is sure to backfire on Microsoft.
It’s typical of a mega-corporation like Microsoft: short-term profit gains for shareholders at the expense of long-term damage to the product and customer service (enshittification).

I think the ship is going to sink now under Microsoft’s leadership (I had actually signed up for another three months of ESO+ after a six-month break, only to cancel it again yesterday).

In my opinion, the only thing that could still save ESO is a management buyout of ZOS, but I think the brand is (still) too expensive for that.

Oznog666 · July 7

opethmaniac wrote: »

Laying off Gina Bruno—ZOS’s popular public face—is sure to backfire on Microsoft.

They don't care about games anymore, their business is now only AI.

MasterSpatula · July 7

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all. Just wanted to say thank you for the kindness shown to our team members today. Whether impacted by today's layoffs or not, everyone who has worked on ESO appreciates the kindness and grace for the contributions they have made to the game. If you see folks out in the while or on social media, make sure to share extra love today.

We are working on following up with leadership on next steps, so we'll update once we have more info.

@ZOS_Kevin, I'm gutted over this.

Certainly there's the selfish concern that I just don't understand how this game I love can continue to provide the experiences I cherish under these circumstances. Beyond that, though, is a sense of betrayal for myself.

Though I certainly don't agree with (and sometimes find incomprehensible) some of their choices over the years, this team has devoted themselves to bringing people like me joy. Finn's team, in particular, knocks it out of the park every time. Gina is the public face of the company. For twelve years, I have been able to lose myself in the world these people created. I owe these people, and today's actions seem to disregard them and disregard us.

I'm deeply upset on behalf of your team. I'm deeply upset on behalf of us.

hiyde · July 7

shadoza wrote: »

Struggling to survive?

This Multi-Trillion Dollar megacorp has posted record net profits 3 years in a row, nearly 300 billion in just the past 3 years.

Revenue is not profits.

Agreed, @shadoza. Net Profits are net Profits. And I quoted net profits. "Revenue" was ~3x those numbers.

ashlee17 · July 7

Thank you to all of the team members past and present who have worked on this incredible game and fostered this wonderful community. My heart goes out to you all. Wishing you all the best no matter what the future brings.

RebornV3x · July 7

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

[snip]

But they let Gina go damn what shame this makes me really sad too hear they layoff the main community manager and a major face of the game this will backfire what are they thinking
[edited to remove quote]

IZZEFlameLash · July 7

RebornV3x wrote: »

Techwolf_Lupindo wrote: »

[snip]

But they let Gina go damn what shame this makes me really sad too hear they layoff the main community manager and a major face of the game this will backfire what are they thinking

Inb4 they bring back Gina but it is just AI imitating Gina...
[edited to remove quote]

ApoAlaia · July 7

AI promises number go up.

So everyone/everything whose whole existence either revolves around or is existentially tied to number go up is going all in, if nothing else to keep investor confidence on number go up from waning.

Regrettably games, except perhaps some mobile games, are a bit of a disappointment in terms of number go up.

So here we are again, burning everything - environment, infrastructure, livelihoods, whathaveyou - on the altar of number go up.

Usureki · July 7

baratron wrote: »

Alright. I have a question, and it's a serious question:

How much money would it cost for the community to buy ZoS from Microsoft?

It's happened with sports teams. Fans have clubbed together to buy their favourite sports team out from their rich millionaire owners.

Could we do the same? Could we be the first video game community to rescue our game from the evil corporate overlords?

It might sound insane but if sports fans can do massive buyouts, why can't we?

Wow! This would be an awesome move! I would gladly support this and would be happy to buy shares to keep the game alive!

omegatay_ESO · July 7

Marto wrote: »

Nearly the entire writing team has been laid off... If not all, as we haven't yet heard from all of them.

This is absolutely inexcusable. How? How??

This is the team that has literally kept the Elder Scrolls setting and franchise alive for the past decade.

What is supposed to happen now? How are you going to release the planned Skyrim zone without anyone to write dialogue, books, songs, lore, or quests?

Hundreds of years of experience and knowledge, down the drain. This is shameful. Absolutely disgusting. At what point do studio leads have to stand up, put their foot down, and tell their bosses this cannot be allowed to happen?

Guess they don't plan on making much, if any , overland content, right? No writers, no overland content. So I guess eso is about doing TASKS now. That is NOT Elder Scrolls to me. I am out.

Digielf · July 7

Hi,

I read the news yesterday.

I just want to say thank you to everyone who has helped build and support this amazing game over the years.

I’ve been part of the ESO community for many years now, and it has become much more than just a game to me. It’s a world I’ve shared with friends, created memories in, and enjoyed countless adventures.

I sincerely hope the journey will continue for many years to come.

Thank you all, and I wish the very best to everyone affected.