Warden not mentioned on Update 51 Stream?

LunaFlora · June 29

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

no, Elder Scrolls is Elder Scrolls so there are no implications.

IviRo wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Greeting! Perhaps this is my assumption based on the analysis of available information, but do I understand correctly that the shift in the schedule is related not only to the revision, but also to the change of updates for the next year, so that next year each update corresponds to the season and there is no more confusion with the schedule?
And for the first time in 12 years, due to changes in the new content release system, sometime in December we will have PTS with update 53, so that next year will fully enter the season system, where we will receive 4 seasons per year.

that is unlikely. ZOS said in the June 23 livestream that the pts delay is for extra polish,
Season 0 started in April, if there was a Season before that it would have started in January.
Each season is 3 full months so it should be January, April, July, October.
Next year will be the first year with 4 seasons because ZOS started the Seasons this year with update 49, it would have had to start last year with update 48 if they wanted Season 0 to be January instead.

Q4 and Q1 updates have usually had more time in-between than other updates so the delay might not even affect the releases of 2027's updates, if they are affected i think it would be a smaller difference than 3 weeks.
And if update 52 also gets delayed it would be difficult for ZOS to do pts for update 53 in December as that is a month earlier than usual, q1 updates usually go to pts in January so a delay would push it to February instead.

Each quarterly Update has content for the subsequent Season as each Update (after Update 49) releases inside a Season.
a Season is just the name of a period of time where content, updates, and events release in.
Not super different than past years.
You can compare the Thieves Guild and Sheogorath quests to the Prologue quests in the past, the Prologue quests usually released a month after an update.
You can compare Tamriel Tomes to Crown Crates as both release after an update and are both available for 3 months.
Events always start after updates too.

IviRo · June 29

Stamicka wrote: »

IviRo wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

ZOS is part of Zenimax Media inc. and here we are specifically talking about Zenimax Media Inc., not ZeniMax Online Studio. Please don't confuse them.

I didn’t confuse them… the news is relevant for Zenimax Media Inc as a whole which includes ZOS among others.

I checked the information about Zenimax Online and there a person makes his assumptions based on the recalled vacancies from the site, but you can consider another option, it is withdrawn due to the fact that some employees can replenish the staff + judging by the leaks, Zenimax Online is not included in the list for reducing or closing the studio. In any case, in a couple of days or one week we will find out a specific gathering.

IviRo · June 29

LunaFlora wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

no, Elder Scrolls is Elder Scrolls so there are no implications.

IviRo wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Greeting! Perhaps this is my assumption based on the analysis of available information, but do I understand correctly that the shift in the schedule is related not only to the revision, but also to the change of updates for the next year, so that next year each update corresponds to the season and there is no more confusion with the schedule?
And for the first time in 12 years, due to changes in the new content release system, sometime in December we will have PTS with update 53, so that next year will fully enter the season system, where we will receive 4 seasons per year.

that is unlikely. ZOS said in the June 23 livestream that the pts delay is for extra polish,
Season 0 started in April, if there was a Season before that it would have started in January.
Each season is 3 full months so it should be January, April, July, October.
Next year will be the first year with 4 seasons because ZOS started the Seasons this year with update 49, it would have had to start last year with update 48 if they wanted Season 0 to be January instead.

Q4 and Q1 updates have usually had more time in-between than other updates so the delay might not even affect the releases of 2027's updates, if they are affected i think it would be a smaller difference than 3 weeks.
And if update 52 also gets delayed it would be difficult for ZOS to do pts for update 53 in December as that is a month earlier than usual, q1 updates usually go to pts in January so a delay would push it to February instead.

Each quarterly Update has content for the subsequent Season as each Update (after Update 49) releases inside a Season.
a Season is just the name of a period of time where content, updates, and events release in.
Not super different than past years.
You can compare the Thieves Guild and Sheogorath quests to the Prologue quests in the past, the Prologue quests usually released a month after an update.
You can compare Tamriel Tomes to Crown Crates as both release after an update and are both available for 3 months.
Events always start after updates too.

It seems to me that you didn't quite understand what I was trying to convey, perhaps because of my poor English, I apologize.
I'm not talking specifically about this year, I'm talking about 2027, and in order for us to have season 3 in 2027, it should be tested in December, one month to prepare for all platforms (I think you've already noticed that we have one month allocated for testing and one month we're waiting for a patch on live server) it follows that patch 53 should be released in February and all relevant content for season 3 should be added. I hope I described it clearly enough.

React · June 29

LunaFlora wrote: »

no, Elder Scrolls is Elder Scrolls so there are no implications.

Zenimax Online Studios recently pulled many job listings, so I'd wager they're being affected by the microsoft restructuring as well.

I think if the warden rework is not ready to go live, it is better that they'd push it out an additional patch. They did do a great job with the DK rework, the class feels good to play, mechanically everything works very well. I want them to deliver that same quality with every rework, and we've been asking for years that they postpone patches if the content is not ready to go live, so we can't fault them for finally doing that now.

That said, it is going to have a strong negative impact on the game if the delays continue in regards to the class reworks. The timeline was already long, but if we don't receive the warden rework with U51, we are looking at a 10 month gap between the first and second class reworks. It's sort of a lose-lose situation for them unfortunately; rush things live and have possible low-quality reworks, or delay and force long & boring single class metas onto PVP. Really this is a project that should have been delayed for a longer period of time, and released all at once or in 1-3 parts across a year with multiple classes being done at a time.

IviRo · June 29

LunaFlora wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

no, Elder Scrolls is Elder Scrolls so there are no implications.

IviRo wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Greeting! Perhaps this is my assumption based on the analysis of available information, but do I understand correctly that the shift in the schedule is related not only to the revision, but also to the change of updates for the next year, so that next year each update corresponds to the season and there is no more confusion with the schedule?
And for the first time in 12 years, due to changes in the new content release system, sometime in December we will have PTS with update 53, so that next year will fully enter the season system, where we will receive 4 seasons per year.

that is unlikely. ZOS said in the June 23 livestream that the pts delay is for extra polish,
Season 0 started in April, if there was a Season before that it would have started in January.
Each season is 3 full months so it should be January, April, July, October.
Next year will be the first year with 4 seasons because ZOS started the Seasons this year with update 49, it would have had to start last year with update 48 if they wanted Season 0 to be January instead.

Q4 and Q1 updates have usually had more time in-between than other updates so the delay might not even affect the releases of 2027's updates, if they are affected i think it would be a smaller difference than 3 weeks.
And if update 52 also gets delayed it would be difficult for ZOS to do pts for update 53 in December as that is a month earlier than usual, q1 updates usually go to pts in January so a delay would push it to February instead.

Each quarterly Update has content for the subsequent Season as each Update (after Update 49) releases inside a Season.
a Season is just the name of a period of time where content, updates, and events release in.
Not super different than past years.
You can compare the Thieves Guild and Sheogorath quests to the Prologue quests in the past, the Prologue quests usually released a month after an update.
You can compare Tamriel Tomes to Crown Crates as both release after an update and are both available for 3 months.
Events always start after updates too.

You understand that we have a huge gap, as it was with the main ones before, now there is a completely different release of content, and it turns out that from December to February - March we will again have a gap like before and logically, there will be no new season during this period. Of course, update 52 may contain some content for season 3, but as far as I understand ZOS, they want to move away from the old system, and if the PTS with the content of season 3 and update 53 takes place in December, then it will look logical and the rule. The release of content itself and the update cycle should change, and the release of content on the PTS in January, then we wait another month and receive it at the end of the season, in March, which is fundamentally wrong.

LunaFlora · June 29

IviRo wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Not sure how much I can say, but I encourage everyone to do a google search regarding the 100 days Xbox reset plan and Zenimax. I think there are potential implications for ZOS and its future.

no, Elder Scrolls is Elder Scrolls so there are no implications.

IviRo wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey all, we do see and acknowledge the questions and concerns raised in this thread. What @tomofhyrule said here is a good summary of what we meant by "knock-on effect". When one date moves, the rest after it are also affected. We are working through what those shifts look like now, and will share them with you as soon as we're able.

We aren't intentionally keeping them from you - we want to ensure that what we share is accurate, and we're still figuring it out. We also wanted to share the PTS date shift with you as soon as we knew it was moving, even if that meant we wouldn't have all the related answers yet. That's the nature of sharing things early. Warden is still next in the class refresh timeline. That has not changed.

Greeting! Perhaps this is my assumption based on the analysis of available information, but do I understand correctly that the shift in the schedule is related not only to the revision, but also to the change of updates for the next year, so that next year each update corresponds to the season and there is no more confusion with the schedule?
And for the first time in 12 years, due to changes in the new content release system, sometime in December we will have PTS with update 53, so that next year will fully enter the season system, where we will receive 4 seasons per year.

that is unlikely. ZOS said in the June 23 livestream that the pts delay is for extra polish,
Season 0 started in April, if there was a Season before that it would have started in January.
Each season is 3 full months so it should be January, April, July, October.
Next year will be the first year with 4 seasons because ZOS started the Seasons this year with update 49, it would have had to start last year with update 48 if they wanted Season 0 to be January instead.

Q4 and Q1 updates have usually had more time in-between than other updates so the delay might not even affect the releases of 2027's updates, if they are affected i think it would be a smaller difference than 3 weeks.
And if update 52 also gets delayed it would be difficult for ZOS to do pts for update 53 in December as that is a month earlier than usual, q1 updates usually go to pts in January so a delay would push it to February instead.

Each quarterly Update has content for the subsequent Season as each Update (after Update 49) releases inside a Season.
a Season is just the name of a period of time where content, updates, and events release in.
Not super different than past years.
You can compare the Thieves Guild and Sheogorath quests to the Prologue quests in the past, the Prologue quests usually released a month after an update.
You can compare Tamriel Tomes to Crown Crates as both release after an update and are both available for 3 months.
Events always start after updates too.

It seems to me that you didn't quite understand what I was trying to convey, perhaps because of my poor English, I apologize.
I'm not talking specifically about this year, I'm talking about 2027, and in order for us to have season 3 in 2027, it should be tested in December, one month to prepare for all platforms (I think you've already noticed that we have one month allocated for testing and one month we're waiting for a patch on live server) it follows that patch 53 should be released in February and all relevant content for season 3 should be added. I hope I described it clearly enough.

ah yes.
But the start of season 3 is part of update 52, Tamriel Tome, January and February events, and Gold Coast Bazaar seasonal items.
update 50 adds those kinds of things for Season 1 like 49 did for season 0.

if you are talking about 53's pts release i would agree as this u51 delay could cause 53 to go to pts in February.

Destai · June 29

React wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

no, Elder Scrolls is Elder Scrolls so there are no implications.

Zenimax Online Studios recently pulled many job listings, so I'd wager they're being affected by the microsoft restructuring as well.

I think if the warden rework is not ready to go live, it is better that they'd push it out an additional patch. They did do a great job with the DK rework, the class feels good to play, mechanically everything works very well. I want them to deliver that same quality with every rework, and we've been asking for years that they postpone patches if the content is not ready to go live, so we can't fault them for finally doing that now.

That said, it is going to have a strong negative impact on the game if the delays continue in regards to the class reworks. The timeline was already long, but if we don't receive the warden rework with U51, we are looking at a 10 month gap between the first and second class reworks. It's sort of a lose-lose situation for them unfortunately; rush things live and have possible low-quality reworks, or delay and force long & boring single class metas onto PVP. Really this is a project that should have been delayed for a longer period of time, and released all at once or in 1-3 parts across a year with multiple classes being done at a time.

This is where I feel sorry for ZOS. They're really walking a tightrope. There's this huge backlog of requests finally getting addressed. But with things being the way they are, it's all too easy for it to get off track. And then once it does, we're not getting the QoL that was expected, at the expense of meatier content.

I definitely want the Warden rework to be good. It's my main, and I can easily accept it needing more time. But the catch-22 they're in, is there's not much new, dense content out. Even if they get thru that backlog, there's still the chance people are going to play less. Especially if they're like me, where I've gotten most of the stickerbook, have 18 toons, etc.

Nemesis7884 · July 1

Imo zos should focus / push hard to get the class rework done asap while also doing it well / thorough / high quality.... if this gets delayed and takes 5 years will imo be very negative for the game.

Radiate77 · July 1

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Imo zos should focus / push hard to get the class rework done asap while also doing it well / thorough / high quality.... it his gets delayed and take 5 years will imo be very negative for the game.

Honestly, this should be held at a higher priority than these temporary seasonal events.

SkaiFaith · July 2

WHAT IF... With Warden refresh in U51 we are going to be surprised by a Destruction Staff refresh, and that's part of the reason for the push of the PTS date?
Just speculation on my part...

tomofhyrule · July 2

SkaiFaith wrote: »

WHAT IF... With Warden refresh in U51 we are going to be surprised by a Destruction Staff refresh, and that's part of the reason for the push of the PTS date?
Just speculation on my part...

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a weapon line come with. They dropped 2H with DK, so we have 5 more weapon lines to go.

But they could just say something, y’know?!??

Like what is the Combat Team’s aversion to just communicating? “Hey guys, we need a bit more time to polish, but we’re really excited to show you the new DD-based Winter’s Embrace features and the new support-centric Animal Companions things!”
That’s it. That’s literally all they need to do to stop people getting antsy and let speculation run wild. Heck, even throw us a bone and post a gif of a new frost DD skill, or have a gif of a Warden just cuddle his polar bear or something. Whatever. But something.

All this feels like is that the current idea - at least from the Combat Team - is “we don’t want to let players know anything until we drop it on them, at which point it’s too late for their feedback to change anything. Because we know best and the players are morons.”

Destai · July 2

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

WHAT IF... With Warden refresh in U51 we are going to be surprised by a Destruction Staff refresh, and that's part of the reason for the push of the PTS date?
Just speculation on my part...

I wouldn’t be surprised to see a weapon line come with. They dropped 2H with DK, so we have 5 more weapon lines to go.

But they could just say something, y’know?!??

Like what is the Combat Team’s aversion to just communicating? “Hey guys, we need a bit more time to polish, but we’re really excited to show you the new DD-based Winter’s Embrace features and the new support-centric Animal Companions things!”
That’s it. That’s literally all they need to do to stop people getting antsy and let speculation run wild. Heck, even throw us a bone and post a gif of a new frost DD skill, or have a gif of a Warden just cuddle his polar bear or something. Whatever. But something.

All this feels like is that the current idea - at least from the Combat Team - is “we don’t want to let players know anything until we drop it on them, at which point it’s too late for their feedback to change anything. Because we know best and the players are morons.”

And especially with all the drama over the years that's caused them to turtle up and whatever, it's surprising they haven't tried something different. It's just another case of us giving them to tools to better communicate only for them to do differently.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I really think it's high time to take inventory of how combat communication lands with the community and adopt a different approach.

Stamicka · July 6

Unfortunately I think we have an explanation for this now and the reason for the secrecy. I hinted at it earlier, but it’s now officially confirmed.

Seraphayel · July 6

Stamicka wrote: »

Unfortunately I think we have an explanation for this now and the reason for the secrecy. I hinted at it earlier, but it’s now officially confirmed.

I don’t think this has anything to do with it. They’re working on the Warden rework way longer than these layoffs could’ve impacted them.

If these layoffs impact anything, it‘s the future reworks that are planned after U51 and that’s worrisome.

Radiate77 · July 6

☹️

DrMedBorn · July 6

Now we know why

LibramCantor · July 6

No joking, but I pity necromancer mains, they probably will die from the old age waiting for this class rework. Cruel irony

Radiate77 · July 6

With only one class reworked, you’re looking at 14.29% of the job completed and we lost all of those people working on the game?

Not sure what the future looks like…

Luneca · July 6

Radiate77 wrote: »

With only one class reworked, you’re looking at 14.29% of the job completed and we lost all of those people working on the game?

Not sure what the future looks like…

The future is DK. No other class.

nightbringer1993 · July 6

If things remain like this and that necro remains unplayable, this game is dead to me unfortunately.

So much time and efforts placed into my chars to ultimately be forced to leave due to all of these nerfs.

Radiate77 · July 6

Luneca wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

With only one class reworked, you’re looking at 14.29% of the job completed and we lost all of those people working on the game?

Not sure what the future looks like…

The future is DK. No other class.

Yeah I just don’t see how we make it out of this one with any community left assuming these reworks are pushed back.

SkaiFaith · July 6

Radiate77 wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

Radiate77 wrote: »

With only one class reworked, you’re looking at 14.29% of the job completed and we lost all of those people working on the game?

Not sure what the future looks like…

The future is DK. No other class.

Yeah I just don’t see how we make it out of this one with any community left assuming these reworks are pushed back.

To put it lightly: the future of the WHOLE gaming community... Is cooked.
Comrades, it's been an honor. o7

Arunei · July 6

We haven't heard anything about the reworks all being delayed. We only know Warden will potentially be delayed some depending on when they intended to release it during U51, and that U51 itself will be delayed initially because of it going to the PTS a few weeks late. But again, we don't know when exactly Warden was going to drop, so we don't know if U51 being a bit late will actually make Warden late.

We also have no idea if anyone that was laid off was actively working on the reworks or not, at least not as far as I'm aware. I don't think it was ever stated who's at the head of that whole endeavor. It's possible that some of them were, looking at the titles of those who we know of at the moment, but for now I think the best course of action is to wait until we see the information Kevin mentioned and the updated roadmap Jessica mentioned.

MSattrtand · July 8

Well, Warden refresh hasn't been mentioned on the roadmap. It shoulda be mentioned in the U51 part if it's coming on its launch. Definitely delayed. Now we can only speculate if it's coming in some incremental (extremely unlikely), U52 (the most probable) or even later

Seraphayel · July 8

MSattrtand wrote: »

Well, Warden refresh hasn't been mentioned on the roadmap. It shoulda be mentioned in the U51 part if it's coming on its launch. Definitely delayed. Now we can only speculate if it's coming in some incremental (extremely unlikely), U52 (the most probable) or even later

This isn’t a roadmap, this is just an overview for Season One.

The roadmap was looking like this:

And as far as I know in one of the last streams they said Warden rework isn’t dated for U51 launch but for September, but U51 has been delayed for 3 weeks so Warden update could come in October instead.

Estin · July 8

Arunei wrote: »

We haven't heard anything about the reworks all being delayed. We only know Warden will potentially be delayed some depending on when they intended to release it during U51, and that U51 itself will be delayed initially because of it going to the PTS a few weeks late. But again, we don't know when exactly Warden was going to drop, so we don't know if U51 being a bit late will actually make Warden late.

We also have no idea if anyone that was laid off was actively working on the reworks or not, at least not as far as I'm aware. I don't think it was ever stated who's at the head of that whole endeavor. It's possible that some of them were, looking at the titles of those who we know of at the moment, but for now I think the best course of action is to wait until we see the information Kevin mentioned and the updated roadmap Jessica mentioned.

Cambria Blaize is the Owner/Lead of the Combat Refresh, though her title is Lead FX Artist. You then have Brian Wheeler and Alec Verish. Brian's the combat director and Alec is the senior combat designer. Alec has been on all streams that had anything to do with the refreshes. But also several animators and sound designers, as well as other VFX artists had layoffs, so the team behind the refresh may have lost some members.

But with the new roadmap, it looks like the Warden refresh isn't coming in U51 which is a bummer. We're going to have to go another patch with DKs and WW owning the field in PvP, but hopefully there can be some good adjustments to the class masteries to close the gap in the meantime.

AScarlato · July 8

Seraphayel wrote: »

MSattrtand wrote: »

Well, Warden refresh hasn't been mentioned on the roadmap. It shoulda be mentioned in the U51 part if it's coming on its launch. Definitely delayed. Now we can only speculate if it's coming in some incremental (extremely unlikely), U52 (the most probable) or even later

This isn’t a roadmap, this is just an overview for Season One.

The roadmap was looking like this:

And as far as I know in one of the last streams they said Warden rework isn’t dated for U51 launch but for September, but U51 has been delayed for 3 weeks so Warden update could come in October instead.

If they list things like "Achievement pinning" on this roadmap why wouldn't something more important like a refresh be included? I think maybe they aren't sure now when it is releasing.

It's not like Achievement pinning has to do with the season.

anadandy · July 8

Seraphayel wrote: »

This isn’t a roadmap, this is just an overview for Season One.

QFE.

LunaFlora · July 8

Seraphayel wrote: »

MSattrtand wrote: »

Well, Warden refresh hasn't been mentioned on the roadmap. It shoulda be mentioned in the U51 part if it's coming on its launch. Definitely delayed. Now we can only speculate if it's coming in some incremental (extremely unlikely), U52 (the most probable) or even later

This isn’t a roadmap, this is just an overview for Season One.

The roadmap was looking like this:

And as far as I know in one of the last streams they said Warden rework isn’t dated for U51 launch but for September, but U51 has been delayed for 3 weeks so Warden update could come in October instead.

the Dragonknight and Werewolf refreshes released when their updates released, why would Warden not release on September 21 if it is in update 51?
it is not an event, store item, or new story.

i hope ZOS soon makes it clear whether Warden refresh is in update 51 or 52, but it should be in a Season roadmap.

ItsNotLiving · July 8

No class refreshes ever happening again just level a DK I guess.