Avran_Sylt wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It'd be nice to move heals/recovery off of max health scaling altogether. Remove the incentive to stack health and force them into resource stats would be wonderful.

But then, I can't say for certain because I've never seen a solo WW going up against someone who isn't a light attack/single skill button enjoyer. They are always accompanied by a dedicated cleanser/healer if they deal meaningful amount of damage or whole lot of them if they are dealing somewhat decent damage (as in, not enough to kill someone who knows how to press defensive skill buttons) as a single wolf.

Iam 600 cp. I play Templar healer now. And the funny part is , I can tank and outheal ww damage. A 3000 cp ww couldnt kill me last night. But today i got smacked so hard by a DK. 24k take flight , 2x flame lash 18k and 19 k.
Still people cry about ww.
4000-9000 rip and tear. Blood claws tick for 1800. Pounce tick for 1500-1600.
Just sayinn

So because you encountered a ww that couldnt kill you (cp doesnt mean a lot), they arent op? If you get hit for 24k take flight, your build isnt well suited for pvp.


Btw i dont think the detection mechanic is a problem at all. Gankers have been annoying for way too long.

My point is DK is more Op. They do more dmg. Everyone is busy in here crying about ww being op when Sorc is busted as f. Nerf ww and dk and everyone is back to sorc meta like some years ago.
My build is very suitable for PvP. I can tank mostly 3-4 players. When a dk come iam dead. 18-19 k flame whip is balanced yo

Have you played a Sorc WW yet?
Also are those 3-4 player you're facing actually good? If so, you shouldn't be able to 1v4. That's not good balance.

I've played a sorceror werewolf for a few years. I've also been Templar, warden(when it was a bad idea), Necromancer, Night Blade, Dragon Knight werewolf. Didn't bother with Arcanist WW as the shields were to important for helping the PUGs dealing with purple Zerglings on Gray Host.

Then I stopped being an arcanist when I was aware of an exploit certain 'skilled' people had begun using. I didn't want to be lumped in with such 'elite' company.

I have also been doing this for about twelve years now. Including back in the days of Impulse and DK wing spam. When just finishing the werewolf quest made you easier to kill. As well as the two or three other times when werewolf became the crutch of the month for anyone not playing vampire. I have over a decade of videos on various platforms showing how a mid to trash tier player can operate in cyrodiil.

And yes, I have been Continuing to be a Sorceror werewolf after the update. However I didn't run off to farm the new crutch mythic that so many are using as a substitute for skill. Oh, and there's been a bit of video taken as I continue to struggle against the purple herds who just want to gate camp and or K/D farm.

So I feel I can answer that yes indeedly do werewolf is not busted. As always it's an OP mythic combined with badly implemented systems that are an issue. An issue that's been , and will continued to be, far more abused and used as a crutch long after this current werewolf fad has passed.

Heck, it already is during the time I play in. The 'first place' players who just want to gate camp are almost all running back to their DKs and streak sorcs. Even the troll tanks who just want to sit there holding block while 'ranged solo DPS' spend hours failing to kill them have fled back to anything but werewolf builds.

And again I have quite a few hours of videos to peruse. If people care to see how things fare when you're both routinely outnumbered, and using that OP mythic as a crutch.

JohnRingo wrote: »

Lol. Now tell me truthfully Mr. Protocol. Are you currently dominating playing WW and throwing out a curve ball here? Not sayin...just sayin.

Well, Mr. Ringo, I’ve never touched a werewolf at any time playing any Elder Scrolls game. It’s not my playstyle, and that’s not going to change any time soon. I’ve certainly killed enough of them, though 😉

RaikaNA wrote: »

hoangdz wrote: »

You can't really talk sense into WW mains at this point because they are incredibly biased. WW is out there breaking every known balance metrics of PvP:

Survivability - 45-48k HP with HP scaling heals and synergy with class mastery passives
Sustain - Limitless sustain with skills costing practically nothing and a burst heal restoring stam back
Damage - 6k+ DPS in a beefier build, and 9-10k in a pure damage build
Mobility - Permanent Major Expedition, so max movement speed is within reach.

A normal build with 45-48k HP, high survivability, unlimited sustain, and high mobility that can also deal 6k-10k DPS shouldn't exist. That build is reserved for emperors in a specific campaign. Yet, we have WWs capable of those stats and performance.

At this stage, it's not a question of whether WW is overperforming or not because objectively, IT IS. Every argument from the WW community can be easily dismantled with simple in-game data. Rather, it's a question of whether people have the integrity to acknowledge that their class is imbalanced. It appears to me that the majority of the WW playerbase does not have that capacity. Every time an argument gets countered, the goal post also gets shifted. So, enjoy the next 3 months of fighting nigh-unkillable WWs in Cyrodiil and BGs. You can join them or quit the game for a couple of months until your class gets reworked.

Same could be said to those who do not main WW. You guys come to the forums complaining about ww being super OP without a shred of evidence backing it up.. no logs, no screenshots of death recaps... nothing.

If you think that WW are SUPER op right now and they are unable to be killed.. why is it that last night on my “Unkillable” 48KHP (fully buffed up) WW with over 20k resistance, that Dks (Most OP class in the game right now) were the main class killing me? Here is a screenshot of my death recap.




Are you getting these kinds of numbers from a WW on your death recap? If so, let's see it

BOTH WW and DKs are overperforming, and both need adjustments.

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

JohnRingo wrote: »

Lol. Now tell me truthfully Mr. Protocol. Are you currently dominating playing WW and throwing out a curve ball here? Not sayin...just sayin.

Well, Mr. Ringo, I’ve never touched a werewolf at any time playing any Elder Scrolls game. It’s not my playstyle, and that’s not going to change any time soon. I’ve certainly killed enough of them, though 😉

Hahaha! Well played, sir.

Fantalior wrote: »

- extremely tanky

isn't WW healing weak? I saw their health dropping and unable to heal right back like a normal build would.

X94 wrote: »

They should have updated all classes at once instead of one at a time with a long period inbetween, we are going to have a completely broken game for like 2 years before all other classes are updated and balances have been made.....

No *** instead they are pumping resources into vengeance with no pop, weapon skill line animation changes and warewolf. Now they have pushed warden out an additional month which puts us a 6mo with one class done. Just get the damn classes done first you clowns.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

moo_2021 wrote: »

Fantalior wrote: »

- extremely tanky

isn't WW healing weak? I saw their health dropping and unable to heal right back like a normal build would.

It is not a weak burst heal at all. For the lack of HoT, they have heal for % of damage done as well. They can be tough to kill that way, just like any well made builds. There's always a solution though. Like a burst combo or defile 'em.

The burst heal is weak. It's 33% less than the value from U49. A Werewolf cannot survive on that heal alone like it used to(barely). It HAS to use the other sources available in order to work. Both of the other skills that provide healing require a target and one of them misses the majority of the time. Human players can be nearly dead and heal up to full in 1 second. No Werewolf is doing that with their burst heal.

WW are currently too strong, but I don't think nerfing them is the answer. I mean, do we really trust Zos to do a careful, precision nerf?

Instead, imo, buff the counter play. Increase the Fighter's Guild passive by 100% or something. You could also increase the damage taken from Flame and Poison damage. I do think the stealth detection is way too strong. Perhaps you could make it an indicator that there is someone in stealth near you rather than just making them appear.

Signet disabled in PvP. But guess what? WW still OP, makes no difference, "feels exatctly the same" streamers already stated. My maths were correct, who would have thought?

Vasher4 wrote: »

WW are currently too strong, but I don't think nerfing them is the answer. I mean, do we really trust Zos to do a careful, precision nerf?

Instead, imo, buff the counter play. Increase the Fighter's Guild passive by 100% or something. You could also increase the damage taken from Flame and Poison damage. I do think the stealth detection is way too strong. Perhaps you could make it an indicator that there is someone in stealth near you rather than just making them appear.

Agreed. Let them be strong, but buff the counter play.

Werewolf has passive healing from its Rip and Tear which many use as BOTH spammable and execute.
Bloodclaws applies a HoT based on DoT, that also applies status effects.
Insatiable hunger gives the WW a heal advantage in situations when other players are already dead, probably because WW as already overpowering them, making the gap even wider.
Hircine's Fortitude gives crazy heals, with other juicy effects.
All of these are based on Max health, so while a Magicka user has to invest in Spell Damage and sacrifice defensive capabilities, a WW can simply be Tanky AND increase their self heal power.

You are talking about counter play?

This is utter nonsense.
Werewolf is broken and whoever implemented it had the mindset of a five year old receiving their very first hammer in a porcelain shop.

Okay, the Shattered Paths Signet got banned, which solves a dilemma... Werewolves remain OP, and the gankers had to take the hit for it—too bad, though it was a fun time with the Pulse build.
Otherwise, just stick with the Werewolf setup and:

1. Replace Shattered Paths Signet with Belharza's Band
--> The huuuuge advantage here is that both are rings, so you don't have to change much regarding your armor pieces.
2. Maybe switch from Pack Leader to Berserker.
3. Replace Distain with Mara's Balm.

... and enjoy the bloodshed...

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Usureki wrote: »

Werewolf has passive healing from its Rip and Tear which many use as BOTH spammable and execute.
Bloodclaws applies a HoT based on DoT, that also applies status effects.
Insatiable hunger gives the WW a heal advantage in situations when other players are already dead, probably because WW as already overpowering them, making the gap even wider.
Hircine's Fortitude gives crazy heals, with other juicy effects.
All of these are based on Max health, so while a Magicka user has to invest in Spell Damage and sacrifice defensive capabilities, a WW can simply be Tanky AND increase their self heal power.

You are talking about counter play?

This is utter nonsense.
Werewolf is broken and whoever implemented it had the mindset of a five year old receiving their very first hammer in a porcelain shop.

This reads like it was written by someone who hasn't played Werewolf. Have you actually tried to hit a moving player with blood claws? It is supposed to be an aoe, but it doesn't connect to the target more than half the time, it only lasts 6 seconds, and heals based on damage done. Not exactly a Vigor or even close to it.
The burst heal is not some crazy heal. It is significantly worse than last patch and will not keep a werewolf alive on its own. My tool tip is 33% less than last patch. The cost is lower, but it has to be cast more often.
Rip and Tear is not the only skill in the game that has a heal return. Flame Lash is doing this too, but it hits harder and has Aoe damage. I do think some of that healing value should be moved over to the burst heal though. The execute scaling isn't all it's cracked up to be. Only the second half scales, but the skill doesn't hit hard to begin with. You'd be lucky to hit for 6k total with execute scaling against a good player.

Sorcerer and DK are the counter to Werewolf. Both have more utility, healing options, and actually have burst damage.

Yeah, this 100%. When I am on WW, I am very mindful of meta Sorc and DK build runners. And when I am not on WW, I am still more wary of those forementioned meta setups than WW because WW don't have a way to instagib me.

Not to mention there had been a decrease in WW population lately lol.

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Not to mention there had been a decrease in WW population lately lol.

Since they removed the SPS mythic, werewolf population has dropped in 3 days.

The Uninvited wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Not to mention there had been a decrease in WW population lately lol.

Since they removed the SPS mythic, werewolf population has dropped in 3 days.

No, are we playing the same game? they are still everywhere and still as strong as ever, ww dont need the mytich to be extremely strong