werwolf is op nerf the damage and the Movement speed

JohnRingo · June 17

VinnyGambini wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYtbITjCW-4

Finally fun to play? What's fun in destroying every opponent in 3 seconds? Not to mention WW is 1 bar class, super easy to play. Seriously this is fun for you? It's like playing on godmode, like playing vs ppl 20 levels lower than you.

How about you play vs opponents without gear so you will have even more fun? Seriously I don't get this logic. How you can have fun when you have unfair advantage?

According to the video, the person who attempted to hide their build did a pretty bad job of it because their buff addon essentially told everyone what they were wearing at the time of the video.

The person was using a PVE set called Arms of Relequen, and the mythical item is Huntsman's Warmask Set.

Oh, and at the time of the recording... this was recorded on the PTS server... found it strange how everyone in the video was at max CP? 3,600? I've been playing since Beta, and I'm not even close to that number yet.

This is a bad sample of accusing WW of being broken LOL.

Well, for your info his actual build is aerie cry, serpent disdain and shatered paths signet. And guess what? He's even more OP right now.

Video is from PTS, because it's the best video I've found displaying how broken WW is. IS not WAS. It IS still dealing 10k dps in PvP easily, having infinite susatin and crazy tankiness. Oh I forgot about mobility.

Seriously, stop pretending everything is fine.

LOL. Well played, Vinny!

hoangdz · June 17

You can't really talk sense into WW mains at this point because they are incredibly biased. WW is out there breaking every known balance metrics of PvP:

Survivability - 45-48k HP with HP scaling heals and synergy with class mastery passives
Sustain - Limitless sustain with skills costing practically nothing and a burst heal restoring stam back
Damage - 6k+ DPS in a beefier build, and 9-10k in a pure damage build
Mobility - Permanent Major Expedition, so max movement speed is within reach.

A normal build with 45-48k HP, high survivability, unlimited sustain, and high mobility that can also deal 6k-10k DPS shouldn't exist. That build is reserved for emperors in a specific campaign. Yet, we have WWs capable of those stats and performance.

At this stage, it's not a question of whether WW is overperforming or not because objectively, IT IS. Every argument from the WW community can be easily dismantled with simple in-game data. Rather, it's a question of whether people have the integrity to acknowledge that their class is imbalanced. It appears to me that the majority of the WW playerbase does not have that capacity. Every time an argument gets countered, the goal post also gets shifted. So, enjoy the next 3 months of fighting nigh-unkillable WWs in Cyrodiil and BGs. You can join them or quit the game for a couple of months until your class gets reworked.

Nordstern · June 17

Oblivion_Protocol wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

Sorry but you don't seem to be too much into this game. Whats the difference? DKs were killable. Every single one of them. And there was counterplay with flame resist. If you build a werewolf properly, it has 45k hp, is unkillable solo and still has more damage than U49 dk. But yeah, "it's the sets"

I’m not sure whether you knew this about the game, but sets are part of building properly. I keep hearing these arguments that go, “a well built WW with a good player can kill everyone, so it needs to be nerfed!” But good players on solid builds should be hard to kill, if not nearly impossible. I want my skill rewarded. I’m not here for some kumbaya hold-holding “everyone can die to everything regardless of skill level” gameplay.

Show me footage of a completely naked WW dominating everyone with no build, and then we can talk about it being broken. Until then, as a great man once said, “Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.”

Only problem is that telling by your comment it's pretty clear that you arent very skilled. Good players on solid builds are hard to kill because they know to keep their buffs up, they know where to block or dodge and they know about the importance of line of sight. Werewolves are hard to kill because they got 45k hp, decent tankiness and unlimited sustain. Thats a completely different thing.

Heronisan · June 17

Iv'e been trying to have fun on a jabs build, DK's are actually fun to fight against compared to a WW.

At this point im so sick of WW im just gonna start abusing my own warden WW, and make as many people hate PvP as possible until ZOS is forced to nerf that 15 IQ spec into the ground.

Hircines rage and ferocious roar should work like streak, increasing cost for every cast within short duration or something.

Prionyx · June 17

RaikaNA wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYtbITjCW-4

Finally fun to play? What's fun in destroying every opponent in 3 seconds? Not to mention WW is 1 bar class, super easy to play. Seriously this is fun for you? It's like playing on godmode, like playing vs ppl 20 levels lower than you.

How about you play vs opponents without gear so you will have even more fun? Seriously I don't get this logic. How you can have fun when you have unfair advantage?

According to the video, the person who attempted to hide their build did a pretty bad job of it because their buff addon essentially told everyone what they were wearing at the time of the video.

The person was using a PVE set called Arms of Relequen, and the mythical item is Huntsman's Warmask Set.

Oh, and at the time of the recording... this was recorded on the PTS server... found it strange how everyone in the video was at max CP? 3,600? I've been playing since Beta, and I'm not even close to that number yet.

This is a bad sample of accusing WW of being broken LOL.

It actually proves his point as build in the video is way worse than actual meta muild for WW(aerie's+disdain+shattered)

dark_hunterxmg · June 17

Werewolves are still out here moving slower than a lot of humans even with the 30% speed buff. Have you actually played it?

Luneca · June 17

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Werewolves:

- Cannot cross heal other teammates
- Cannot cross buff other teammates except for a couple buffs in your kit
- Cannot cast shields
- Cannot purge
- Have no weapon passives
- Cannot move as fast as a player using streak
- Have no ability to customize abilities with scribing

And yet despite that are still OP. That list isn't accomplishing what you think.

hoangdz · June 18

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Werewolves are still out here moving slower than a lot of humans even with the 30% speed buff. Have you actually played it?

Maybe stack more speed? Base sprint speed is +40%, then 30% speed buff brings that to +70%. Use Celerity CP + 2x Swift and you're at +94%, which is 6% from the speed cap.

dark_hunterxmg · June 18

hoangdz wrote: »

dark_hunterxmg wrote: »

Werewolves are still out here moving slower than a lot of humans even with the 30% speed buff. Have you actually played it?

Maybe stack more speed? Base sprint speed is +40%, then 30% speed buff brings that to +70%. Use Celerity CP + 2x Swift and you're at +94%, which is 6% from the speed cap.

The math is there. The practical application is not. +40% base +30% unique bonus + 30% Major expedition should get to cap also, but there will still be players moving faster somehow. Then there are the snares from everything in sight with no way to remove them. You should play it and see for yourself.

gammelscroll · June 18

Fantalior wrote: »

Seriously, Update 50 is absolute crap. Just look at the distance from which a werewolf spots me, even with Shadow Cloak active. A 42k-health tank shouldn't be that fast, able to constantly reveal enemies, *and* kill someone in three hits—the balance is completely off. Glass cannons and gankers don't stand a chance; you guys need to do something about this. Simply disabling the reveal mechanic would be enough.

You have.no idea what your talking about. Werewolf isnt "op" at all.
The real problem is the shattered signet mythic mixed with status effect gears like thread of war etc. Its the same as pulse gankers..they abuse that broken mythic.
NERF that first then look at ww.
I think you should try play ww without broken status effect gear and see. Its not OP at all, and if you meet a good dk he will wreck you.
They need to nerf this status effect a using.
I play WW , and i have always played ww for.many years. I use sheer Venom and pariah and its pretty balanced. Last night I meet a status effect ww and he almost one shotted me.
So you should try see whats the real problem is before you come here ry about something being op.
Let me see your build also. Bet you run around like a glass cannon like everyone else and crying about how OP everyone is.

RaikaNA · June 19

hoangdz wrote: »

You can't really talk sense into WW mains at this point because they are incredibly biased. WW is out there breaking every known balance metrics of PvP:

Survivability - 45-48k HP with HP scaling heals and synergy with class mastery passives
Sustain - Limitless sustain with skills costing practically nothing and a burst heal restoring stam back
Damage - 6k+ DPS in a beefier build, and 9-10k in a pure damage build
Mobility - Permanent Major Expedition, so max movement speed is within reach.

A normal build with 45-48k HP, high survivability, unlimited sustain, and high mobility that can also deal 6k-10k DPS shouldn't exist. That build is reserved for emperors in a specific campaign. Yet, we have WWs capable of those stats and performance.

At this stage, it's not a question of whether WW is overperforming or not because objectively, IT IS. Every argument from the WW community can be easily dismantled with simple in-game data. Rather, it's a question of whether people have the integrity to acknowledge that their class is imbalanced. It appears to me that the majority of the WW playerbase does not have that capacity. Every time an argument gets countered, the goal post also gets shifted. So, enjoy the next 3 months of fighting nigh-unkillable WWs in Cyrodiil and BGs. You can join them or quit the game for a couple of months until your class gets reworked.

Same could be said to those who do not main WW. You guys come to the forums complaining about ww being super OP without a shred of evidence backing it up.. no logs, no screenshots of death recaps... nothing.

If you think that WW are SUPER op right now and they are unable to be killed.. why is it that last night on my “Unkillable” 48KHP (fully buffed up) WW with over 20k resistance, that Dks (Most OP class in the game right now) were the main class killing me? Here is a screenshot of my death recap.

Are you getting these kinds of numbers from a WW on your death recap? If so, let's see it

VinnyGambini · June 19

I don't really think DK can match this.

harlz1309 · June 20

RaikaNA wrote: »

Fantalior wrote: »

Seriously, Update 50 is absolute crap. Just look at the distance from which a werewolf spots me, even with Shadow Cloak active. A 42k-health tank shouldn't be that fast, able to constantly reveal enemies, *and* kill someone in three hits—the balance is completely off. Glass cannons and gankers don't stand a chance; you guys need to do something about this. Simply disabling the reveal mechanic would be enough.

What are you talking about? U50 is great! Werewolves are now FUN to play. Yeah, what's so wrong with adding a "sniffing" feature that allows werewolves to actually sniff out its prey? Are you gankers now whining about not being able to gank werewolves? Too bad... find another prey to gank on.

If you're getting killed in 2 to 3 hits... then perhaps you need to examine your own build... if you're running around with a glass canon.. what do you expect will happen? You're mad that we now have a reveal mechanic that renders you glass canons obsolete.

No I think they are pissed because ww can can do it all and requires a zerg to kill them. Low skilled players now think they are top dog

harlz1309 · June 20

RaikaNA wrote: »

Nordstern wrote: »

While I think it's great that they can reveal those hiding in stealth, werewolf overall definitely needs a huge nerf. It can stack way over 40k hp and thereby be unkillable and at the same time deal insane damage. If it was one of the two, okay, but cant have both

Werewolves had been dealing with an insane nerf for such a long time now. It was past due for a buff, and thanks to U50, it did. Again, like I told Fantalior, you can't expect to walk around in Cyrodill with a glass canon build and not expect to get killed from 2 to 3 hits. You need to boost your resistance to at least a bare minimum of 20k each.

If you and Fantalior are making accusations of U50 werewolves of overperforming... provide proof. Show us the logs and make sure to submit a screenshot of your build setup using an addon like Superstar, so we can both figure out the flaws of your build, and to stop blaming on other things.

Iv seen extremely good players get there ass cheeks clapped in seconds. Do u think people dont build into the situation (wow ww are hitting best not raise my resistance) or add an extra heal

RaikaNA · June 20

VinnyGambini wrote: »

I don't really think DK can match this.

Can you explain this fight? Was it a duel? What was the person on a WW wearing at the time?

Anyhow, the problem isn't the WW... the problem is the new mythic that people are now using... Including another set. It is a SET issue.

This person pretty much summons it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL8_kO0ksPg

I remember back then, when the Alessian Order was BIS for WW... everyone wanted to nerf WW, but not the set itself.

dark_hunterxmg · June 20

Could someone maybe share their own data for once? We've all seen the Pelican screenshots from pts.

Usureki · June 20

It's lovely to see how DKs and WWs are arguing which class is making the game more miserable.

VinnyGambini · June 20

RaikaNA wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

I don't really think DK can match this.

Can you explain this fight? Was it a duel? What was the person on a WW wearing at the time?

Anyhow, the problem isn't the WW... the problem is the new mythic that people are now using... Including another set. It is a SET issue.

This person pretty much summons it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL8_kO0ksPg

I remember back then, when the Alessian Order was BIS for WW... everyone wanted to nerf WW, but not the set itself.

Well what is to explain here? We can do the maths if you want:

poisoned = 857 dps
sundered = 773
hemmor = 694
burning = 593
chilled = 383

sum = 3300 status effect damage.

Lets remove shattered paths singet - 3300 / 1.85 = 1783 dps decrease

so, even WITHOUT mythic WW makes 9900 dps.

markyn increases dmg by about 2%, so 10100 dps

monomyth increaese dmg by about 7% (rough esimation depending on you crit rate) = 10600dps

ssc increases damage by about 15% so the dps value will be 11400, but you will be slowed.

Sure, signet is the best option, but IMO even without mythic, that is 9900 dps is absolutely OP.

The solution is to disable class mastery passives on WW. We can clearly see that warden WW and sorc WW are much stronger that their other classes counterparts.

RaikaNA · June 20

WW doesn't need a nerf... people just gotta learn how to counterattack them... for a prime example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqfBBX_ApgE

JohnRingo · June 20

RaikaNA wrote: »

WW doesn't need a nerf... people just gotta learn how to counterattack them... for a prime example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqfBBX_ApgE

I'll summarize the video for you:

1) You can't brawl
2) You can't cloak
3) You can't block
4) You can't have low HP
5) You can't out-sustain

But, you can run (Kite)!

Thanks for the contribution.

Nordstern · 12:24AM

RaikaNA wrote: »

WW doesn't need a nerf... people just gotta learn how to counterattack them... for a prime example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqfBBX_ApgE

You must be trolling at this point. As JohnRingo already pointed out, guy in the video basically says that to "counter" werewolves, you have to run away from them.

IZZEFlameLash · 8:25AM

It'd be nice to move heals/recovery off of max health scaling altogether. Remove the incentive to stack health and force them into resource stats would be wonderful.

But then, I can't say for certain because I've never seen a solo WW going up against someone who isn't a light attack/single skill button enjoyer. They are always accompanied by a dedicated cleanser/healer if they deal meaningful amount of damage or whole lot of them if they are dealing somewhat decent damage (as in, not enough to kill someone who knows how to press defensive skill buttons) as a single wolf.

gammelscroll · 6:10PM

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

It'd be nice to move heals/recovery off of max health scaling altogether. Remove the incentive to stack health and force them into resource stats would be wonderful.

But then, I can't say for certain because I've never seen a solo WW going up against someone who isn't a light attack/single skill button enjoyer. They are always accompanied by a dedicated cleanser/healer if they deal meaningful amount of damage or whole lot of them if they are dealing somewhat decent damage (as in, not enough to kill someone who knows how to press defensive skill buttons) as a single wolf.

Iam 600 cp. I play Templar healer now. And the funny part is , I can tank and outheal ww damage. A 3000 cp ww couldnt kill me last night. But today i got smacked so hard by a DK. 24k take flight , 2x flame lash 18k and 19 k.
Still people cry about ww.
4000-9000 rip and tear. Blood claws tick for 1800. Pounce tick for 1500-1600.
Just sayinn

Fantalior · 8:20PM

RaikaNA wrote: »

Anyhow, the problem isn't the WW... the problem is the new mythic that people are now using... Including another set. It is a SET issue.

It depends on how you approach the problem. When it comes to damage output, gear sets play a significant role. However, the ability to reveal hidden enemies and the immense speed—thanks to abilities costing next to nothing and near-endless sprinting—are defining traits of the werewolf. Personally, I’m fine with the werewolf remaining a damage powerhouse, provided there’s at least a chance to escape it.

I’d rather see the "reveal" mechanic removed—werewolves can use potions for that, just like anyone else. Also, slow them down a bit; ideally, speed should scale with health. A tank with heavy armor and high health ought to move much more slowly than someone wearing robes or leather.