Racial Passives à la Class Masteries

FoolishOptimist · June 15

Class Masteries are a hit.
With hybridisation continuing, I’d love to see Racial Passives become modernised to abandon the generic increases we have now and adapt to the design of the Class Mastery System.

At level 50, Characters gain 1 Racial Point to apply to one of three options that cover thematic offensive, defensive and utility varieties and engage various means of play styles. Each new passive should be equivalent in power to the combined three passives currently on offer.

As an example:

Bosmer (Wood Elf)

(Option 1)
Creature Custodian
Increase the Damage and Healing of your pets by x% for each pet active. When your pet deals damage or heals, gain x Ultimate, which can occur once every x seconds.

(Option 2)
Green Pact Keeper
When an enemy dies you can synergise to consume their corpse and regain x Health, Magicka and Stamina, and increase your damage done by x% for 10 seconds.

(Option 3)
Vigilant Hunter
When you activate Detection, gain Vigilant Hunter for the duration. The next Direct Damage dealt will automatically be a critical hit, and you’ll deal an additional x damage. The target hit by this damage will gain x Health Absorption and you lose Vigilant Hunter.

It’s time to step away from racial passives specifically improving either Health, Magicka or Stamina, while pigeonholing their role as Tank, DPS or Healing and move towards unique and flavoursome enhancements that encourage engaging play.

BXR_Lonestar · June 15

No. Racial passives have always been at the core of TES games. Every race has always had unique advantages and disadvantages. I don't see any reason to change it here.

Erickson9610 · June 15

I like the system that Class Masteries introduced where we have to choose between passives — we don't get everything. Honestly, I wish this was introduced in other parts of the game besides the Champion Point system. I'd like to be able to specialize in something, not to be a jack-of-all-trades!

wolfie1.0. · June 15

Keep in mind that if ZOS does everything as they should, once the class rework is done, class masteries wont be needed.

That said, the idea to apply them instead to the racial system is a decent one.

To build on it, I think that while having options unique to a race is great, there should be options that are available to all of them.

Personally, the way i would classify them is this: Role, resources, racial unique, and you pick one of each to have. Options for role and resources would be ones that are universal, while the racial unique is one of three options.

They shouldn't be too powerful, and i see no reason why they cant be integrated into the leveling system. Just add an option to select a new one at levels 25, 35, and 45.

FoolishOptimist · June 15

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

No. Racial passives have always been at the core of TES games. Every race has always had unique advantages and disadvantages. I don't see any reason to change it here.

This suggestion doesn’t take away Racial Passives, it just adapts them into enhancing gameplay outside of uninspired baseline stat increases.

Imagine a Sword Saint passive for a Redguard.

When you activate a Weapon Skill, you gain Sword Saint for x seconds. While Sword Saint is active, you deal x% additional damage with the triggering Weapon type but deal x% less damage with all other weapons.
Additionally, you heal for x% of the damage you deal with this weapon and gain x Magicka or Stamina Recovery. Once activated, you cannot trigger Sword Saint again for x seconds.

A thematic passive that focuses on heightening damage and survivability with a specific weapon of choice, enhancing a preferred play style over using weapon skills over class skills.

Tyrobag · June 15

FoolishOptimist wrote: »

Class Masteries are a hit.

False.

LunaFlora · June 15

it does sound fun

Gabriel_H · June 15

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Keep in mind that if ZOS does everything as they should, once the class rework is done, class masteries wont be needed.

It is nigh impossible to balance sub-classing and pure-classing. They may adjust the masteries down, but to balance sub-classing means nerfs and buffs in the individual classes, which then throws out the balance of the pure-class.

Making pure-classes weaker than sub-classes without masteries, allows ZOS breathing room to adjust sub-classing, and then bring pure-classes up to that level.

Edit: Typos

FoolishOptimist · June 16

Tyrobag wrote: »

FoolishOptimist wrote: »

Class Masteries are a hit.

False.

I’m curious as to why you feel this way? It’s been overwhelming supported and praised in my circles.

Then again, this isn’t a thread to discuss class masteries, but a discussion as to whether that same design could be applied to racial passives.

Nemesis7884 · June 16

Could be interesting but they should still be themed / limited around the specific races historic racials....and since they are so insignificant i dont think they deserve a lot of time and effort vs x y z.

Attorneyatlawl · June 16

I'd really rather the racial choice be cosmetic. No bonuses based on race, or left minimal like now. I've always wanted to be an argonian visually, but the racials stunk back when I made my toons (2014). So I went with the optimal Imperial and dark elf (dunmer) for things like 7% flame damage with 9% magicka boost for my dragon knight. The Stam one went imperial for pvp.

They would have to give out a lot of race change tokens if they made passives like this.

jirusan · June 16

Subclassing, despite all its flaws, had at least attenuated the restrictions racial passives impose on optimized builds. You could plaster a beam on almost whatever Dunmer you had for a dd, all base classes mostly had something for your subclassed Nord tank...

Now with subclassing effectively out of the more more competitive groups, we are back with the 1 character 1 role state. Of course you can always grind some more alts, some people actually enjoy it, but I don't clearly.

Any system like class masteries, scribing, or even some CP-like mechanism for racial bonuses would really be welcome for me.

Estin · June 16

I'd be for this if it meant that Argonians got the crit chance bonus they deserve.

It'd also make the game feel more like an ES game if there were more reasons to choose the less popular races. You really only ever see Bretons, Nords, Khajiit, and Dunmer running around since they're much more superior compared to the other races. I rarely see anyone running around as a Redguard or Bosmer, and on the off chance that I do, it's a roleplayer.

FoolishOptimist · June 16

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I'd really rather the racial choice be cosmetic. No bonuses based on race, or left minimal like now. I've always wanted to be an argonian visually, but the racials stunk back when I made my toons (2014).

I do feel this; my sorcerer will always be an Argonian, despite being a suboptimal choice for the end game content he participates in.

Part of me wishes we could have an illusion system introduced that allows us to wear the “body” of one race for cosmetic purposes while maintaining the stats of our chosen race.

Vaqual · June 16

Even though I usually dislike power creep, I feel this would be a nice addition to the static passives. I feel the current passives are non intrusive and flavorful enough to remain as they are, but it could be nice to complement them with such a selectable race mastery.
They just have to streamline the current passives a bit more for the post-hybridization evaluation of the stats, that is what creates the largest discrepancies atm.

CameraBeardThePirate · June 16

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

No. Racial passives have always been at the core of TES games. Every race has always had unique advantages and disadvantages. I don't see any reason to change it here.

I feel like you didn't read the post at all... OP is asking for more unique passives, not fewer.

OP wants a selection of additional passives at level 50 (of which you can only choose one or two like class mastery) that aren't just "adds x stats".

Vaqual · June 21

Alternatively they could flesh it out a bit more and assign only one bonus to the race, and instead let the player pick "background" and "career" passives .

FoolishOptimist · June 22

Vaqual wrote: »

Alternatively they could flesh it out a bit more and assign only one bonus to the race, and instead let the player pick "background" and "career" passives .

I do like the concept of “Origin” style passives that fill both a roleplaying and mechanical function.

BXR_Lonestar · June 22

FoolishOptimist wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

No. Racial passives have always been at the core of TES games. Every race has always had unique advantages and disadvantages. I don't see any reason to change it here.

This suggestion doesn’t take away Racial Passives, it just adapts them into enhancing gameplay outside of uninspired baseline stat increases.

Imagine a Sword Saint passive for a Redguard.

When you activate a Weapon Skill, you gain Sword Saint for x seconds. While Sword Saint is active, you deal x% additional damage with the triggering Weapon type but deal x% less damage with all other weapons.
Additionally, you heal for x% of the damage you deal with this weapon and gain x Magicka or Stamina Recovery. Once activated, you cannot trigger Sword Saint again for x seconds.

A thematic passive that focuses on heightening damage and survivability with a specific weapon of choice, enhancing a preferred play style over using weapon skills over class skills.

Now this I COULD get behind. I just don't want to eliminate the class passive system or make it so you can run the Redguard Passives on, say a Wood Elf. The passives need to be bound to the particular race you choose.

But this kind of thing IS supported by the lore, where some of the races had specialized abilities that gave them advantage in certain phases of the game. Nighteye for Khajits made it so you didn't need to cast Starlight or otherwise run around with a torch at night. Dark Elves could summon a ghost of ancestors. Nords had an armor buff and natural immunity to cold.

These kinds of things should also be a part of THIS game.

I like the idea of Sword Saint vs. what it was in TES games where it basically gave you increased regen or unlimited stamina for a brief period