Another Golden Pursuit I have no interest in (Disappointing Season Zero)

SilverBride · June 19

Soarora wrote: »

I don’t think there’s anything technically wrong with the post just being an opinion and not constructive, just wanted to post a reminder that ZOS probably will be looking at backend data for how many people participate in the pursuit, how many people participate in overland difficulty, how many people have the overland difficulty achievements, etc. That data would be more telling than the forums.

I agree that the data can be more telling than feedback on the forums, but in this case the data may not accurately reflect the true story, and this is why.

Let's say 50% (not accurate but just to demonstrate) of players have tried overland difficulty options. Some will continue to use them and some won't. Then a Golden Pursuit that requires difficulty options is introduced. All at once 90% of players have used difficulty options. But this is not because all at once all these players want difficulty. For some it is just because they can easily complete a Golden Pursuit, and they may never use difficulty again. So the data doesn't accurately reflect how successful difficulty options are.

Also, a huge portion of feedback is opinions and it is constructive to communicate what we think of new systems and changes because as I've shown data alone doesn't tell the whole story.

Gabriel_H · June 19

SilverBride wrote: »

It is just because they can easily cheese a Golden Pursuit, and they may never use difficulty again.

I feel attacked!

(Obviously a joke on a colloquialism)

(Seriously, I have zero interest in a sledgehammer debuff. I prefer the challenge of scripted and tuned combat (dungeons/trials), so I only did it for the achievements and goodies. Thanks ZOS, The extra gold was nice).

SilverBride · June 19

Gabriel_H wrote: »

I feel attacked!

(Obviously a joke on a colloquialism)

Thank you for clarifying.

metheglyn · June 19

SilverBride wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I don’t think there’s anything technically wrong with the post just being an opinion and not constructive, just wanted to post a reminder that ZOS probably will be looking at backend data for how many people participate in the pursuit, how many people participate in overland difficulty, how many people have the overland difficulty achievements, etc. That data would be more telling than the forums.

I agree that the data can be more telling than feedback on the forums, but in this case the data may not accurately reflect the true story, and this is why.

Let's say 50% (not accurate but just to demonstrate) of players have tried overland difficulty options. Some will continue to use them and some won't. Then a Golden Pursuit that requires difficulty options is introduced. All at once 90% of players have used difficulty options. But this is not because all at once all these players want difficulty. It is just because they can easily complete a Golden Pursuit, and they may never use difficulty again. So the data doesn't accurately reflect how successful difficulty options are.

Also, a huge portion of feedback is opinions and it is constructive to communicate what we think of new systems and changes because as I've shown data alone doesn't tell the whole story.

[Edited to change a word to a more accurate one]

I would hope ZOS wouldn't just look at the raw data, but also the context in which it happens, and over a sizable time period. So if they see challenge difficulty jump from 50% to 90% as soon as the Pursuit is active, and then back down to 50% after a couple of days, they'll realize that the main reason that extra 40% used the difficulty option was for the Pursuit.

I am interested in how ZOS uses the massive amount of player data they have to inform their design decisions. In this particular case, I wonder if seeing that a lot more people used challenge difficulty only for the Pursuit rewards would make them rethink how they reward challenge difficulty. I am a little concerned about the idea of them adding more rewards to the system than just gold and xp.

Anyway, sorry for the slight derail of the topic; you just got me thinking about how they might analyze their data.

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO · June 19

No surprise here. No one cares about the challenge difficulty so they decided to promote it, otherwise they'll have to admit the huge mistake they made. I have no problem with that, that's how corporate PR always reacts. Rewards are *** anyway.

Arunei · June 19

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO wrote: »

No surprise here. No one cares about the challenge difficulty so they decided to promote it, otherwise they'll have to admit the huge mistake they made. I have no problem with that, that's how corporate PR always reacts. Rewards are *** anyway.

This is just plain factually incorrect. People have been asking for some sort of increased difficulty for years, and plenty of people have voiced being pleased with what was implemented. A number of said they've come back only BECAUSE of Challenge Difficulty, or were on verge of quitting but now find the game engaging.

They do GPs almost every time some new mechanic or system is introduced, so why are you acting like it's just some PR coverup to do it for CD? This is nothing new.

spartaxoxo · June 19

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO wrote: »

No surprise here. No one cares about the challenge difficulty so they decided to promote it, otherwise they'll have to admit the huge mistake they made. I have no problem with that, that's how corporate PR always reacts. Rewards are *** anyway.

It was one of the most highly requested features for years and a lot of lapsed players have come back to voice their happiness about it.

They announced the Golden Pursuit was "likely," before it was even announced. They often use words like "might" when discussing upcoming features just in case it doesn't work out. But, if they're talking about with that level of detail it's probably something they're at least working on.

SilverBride · June 19

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

Vonnegut2506 · June 19

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO wrote: »

No surprise here. No one cares about the challenge difficulty so they decided to promote it, otherwise they'll have to admit the huge mistake they made. I have no problem with that, that's how corporate PR always reacts. Rewards are *** anyway.

Don't let the reality of a thread spanning hundreds of pages get in the way of manufactured facts. Many people are using challenge levels. Many people requested more difficult overland.

Rkindaleft · June 19

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO wrote: »

No surprise here. No one cares about the challenge difficulty so they decided to promote it, otherwise they'll have to admit the huge mistake they made. I have no problem with that, that's how corporate PR always reacts. Rewards are *** anyway.

If you think nobody cares about challenge mode you need to get off the forums and actually look at the community in game. They clearly added it (despite what the forums might tell you) because a massive amount of the community wanted it, and overland difficulty was probably THE most requested feature this game has had since 1T.

I haven't seen any negativity about challenge mode outside of the forums, and even then, it's the same 3 or so users that spam that it sucks.

BardokRedSnow · June 20

SilverBride wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I can understand a player trying something before they decide if they like it, but refusing to even try things is guaranteed to cause disappointment. I'm not sure ZOS can ever satisfy players if they refuse to go near the new content etc.

Many times have I read posts telling players if they don't like something just don't do it. I've been told that more than once in this thread alone. Well that is exactly what I did but now I'm getting conflicting feedback for doing what has been advised to do.

This thread is less about not doing the content than it is about a string of content that I have no interest in. That doesn't leave a good impression about Seasons.

Perhaps you should try another game on occasion. What in the world do you want the golden pursuits to be, gathering columbine? Fishing?

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

I leave my difficulty setting on master because by default even when running around in pvp gear the base game and dlc overland is too easy, and will probably bump it up to vestige for questing in the future also. I got the Vestige of title already, and master is just right for the game to me.

Ive been wanting a feature like this for years and I am annoyed it has taken this long, after ive beaten most of the dlc content I am interested in already (sorry murkmire and thieves guild). Would have loved this for solstice, and especially apocrypha, western skyrim/markarth... Morrowind... Ugh, Summerset Isles with Nocturnal probably needed it most. Waste.

Trust me, people will be using this even a year from now and beyond. I certainly will, I hate easy quest fights.

SilverBride · June 20

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Many times have I read posts telling players if they don't like something just don't do it. I've been told that more than once in this thread alone. Well that is exactly what I did but now I'm getting conflicting feedback for doing what has been advised to do.

This thread is less about not doing the content than it is about a string of content that I have no interest in. That doesn't leave a good impression about Seasons.

Perhaps you should try another game on occasion.

That is a decision only I can make for myself.

Diebesgut · June 20

I have absolutely no interest in the challenge mode.
Instead of hitting a crab twice, the challenge mode lets me whack away at it ten times before it drops.
It’s just mindless... if that’s your sort of thing...
but the rewards fit the concept well.

BretonMage · June 20

Afaicr ZOS always has a GP associated with any new content or system to encourage players to try it out, so it's no surprise there's one for challenge difficulty.

For those on the fence about it, this weekend would probably be the best time to try out Master/Vestige, because there're people farming WBs for the GP. It was very busy everywhere yesterday.

Also, Seasoned difficulty feels very close to Adventurer difficulty. I don't touch Dark Souls type games but I love Seasoned difficulty because mobs feel more or less the same, but older WBs feel a bit less tame.

Arunei · June 20

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

I mean it'll obviously drop off after a bit down the road, not only after people complete the GP but also once people like me have gotten their Seasoned Slayer Dyes and gone back to Adventurer. But I don't really think there's much to be gained in assuming it's going to actively tank when harder Overland of some kind been one of the most requested things for years.

What I'd assume is more likely is as people fall off from using it for one reason or another, there will be other players trying it to sort of balance it out. The game is always getting new players or people returning after long hiatuses, after all. There will be an initial drop off but after that it'll more than likely stable out.

SilverBride · June 20

Arunei wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

I mean it'll obviously drop off after a bit down the road, not only after people complete the GP but also once people like me have gotten their Seasoned Slayer Dyes and gone back to Adventurer. But I don't really think there's much to be gained in assuming it's going to actively tank when harder Overland of some kind been one of the most requested things for years.

What I'd assume is more likely is as people fall off from using it for one reason or another, there will be other players trying it to sort of balance it out. The game is always getting new players or people returning after long hiatuses, after all. There will be an initial drop off but after that it'll more than likely stable out.

I'm not saying it's going to actively tank but we will get a more accurate picture once it has settled in. Naturally it will drop off some but if it's well received it could gain more players actively using it. I can't predict what will happen and am curious to see.

tomofhyrule · June 20

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

Out of curiosity though...

Who cares?

The Challenge Difficulty was done in the most simplistic way - and I'm not saying that negatively. I mean that it is implemented as self-nerfs, and therefore probably took minimal dev time to implement. It's not like Challenge Difficulty is the reason that [insert thing here] isn't being added to the game this year because of how small of a footprint this has.

Yes, there are loads of people who would have liked a more intense version of Challenge Difficulty, one where every mob got remade fights like every Dungeon boss, but that definitely would have taken dev time away from other things. As it is, this is the version that most minimally impacts the rest of the game, and is also something that really doesn't need much continual upkeep so it's not going to be pulling time away from other things that other players may want instead.

If literally one person is using it after 6 months, that will not affect anything whatsoever. Think of it: Tales of Tribute needed significantly more dev resources to do, and that does require players to keep interacting with it. Challenge difficulty... doesn't.

Arunei · June 20

I will say, for all we know CD might get reworked or changed at some point in the future. I can't say how, or if it's anything that would actually happen. But what we have now might be just an initial iteration of it. With the Season model they've got going, they can work on different things over time since they don't have a super strict release schedule like Chapters were. There might be something more involved a year or two from now after they've had time to work on things.

Or this could be it for good and developing anything more involved isn't on the table at all because this is the end version of what they were working on. It's impossible to say since I don't think it's been actively brought up whether this is supposed to be it for CD or not.

SilverBride · June 20

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

Out of curiosity though...

Who cares?

Because how this system is received and used can determine if it stays as it is or if more things are added in the future. If it does do well maybe they will add things specifically for Adventurers too, because that is a difficulty setting. Then we could all feel like we are getting something from our level of participation.

spartaxoxo · June 20

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I can understand a player trying something before they decide if they like it, but refusing to even try things is guaranteed to cause disappointment. I'm not sure ZOS can ever satisfy players if they refuse to go near the new content etc.

Many times have I read posts telling players if they don't like something just don't do it. I've been told that more than once in this thread alone. Well that is exactly what I did but now I'm getting conflicting feedback for doing what has been advised to do.

This thread is less about not doing the content than it is about a string of content that I have no interest in. That doesn't leave a good impression about Seasons.

Perhaps you should try another game on occasion. What in the world do you want the golden pursuits to be, gathering columbine? Fishing?

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

I leave my difficulty setting on master because by default even when running around in pvp gear the base game and dlc overland is too easy, and will probably bump it up to vestige for questing in the future also. I got the Vestige of title already, and master is just right for the game to me.

Ive been wanting a feature like this for years and I am annoyed it has taken this long, after ive beaten most of the dlc content I am interested in already (sorry murkmire and thieves guild). Would have loved this for solstice, and especially apocrypha, western skyrim/markarth... Morrowind... Ugh, Summerset Isles with Nocturnal probably needed it most. Waste.

Trust me, people will be using this even a year from now and beyond. I certainly will, I hate easy quest fights.

I think you'd be surprised by how good Murkmire is. One of the better self contained stories.

Grafahel · June 20

Well I'm not surprised seeing as I've never seen silverbride say anything positive about the game. I'm enjoying myself

zenonuk · June 20

Arunei wrote: »

I will say, for all we know CD might get reworked or changed at some point in the future. I can't say how, or if it's anything that would actually happen. But what we have now might be just an initial iteration of it. With the Season model they've got going, they can work on different things over time since they don't have a super strict release schedule like Chapters were. There might be something more involved a year or two from now after they've had time to work on things.

Or this could be it for good and developing anything more involved isn't on the table at all because this is the end version of what they were working on. It's impossible to say since I don't think it's been actively brought up whether this is supposed to be it for CD or not.

Agree ... and to add to this, ZOS also noted on one of their livestreams it was built so they could extend in the future, as well as integrate into other systems and future gameplay options. That suggests to me they've at least thought how future iterations may work, and how (for example) it may factor into some of the new content that's coming along on the roadmap.

Personally I'm enjoying the new CD system - it's not exactly what I would have liked, but it's good enough to make questing and overland feel more meaty... and I for one will always have it set to Seasoned or above.

Nordstern · June 20

The point of golden pursuits obviously often is to motivate people to try out new content/features. If you don't like it, don't play it. Not everything is made just for you.

heaven13 · June 20

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

Out of curiosity though...

Who cares?

Because how this system is received and used can determine if it stays as it is or if more things are added in the future. If it does do well maybe they will add things specifically for Adventurers too, because that is a difficulty setting. Then we could all feel like we are getting something from our level of participation.

What exactly do you think Adventurer needs for participation? Every single dye obtained overland prior to CD was a reward for Adventurer difficulty, as is every story title gained. That's really all that Seasoned+ got (a few new dyes and 2 titles).

BretonMage · June 20

heaven13 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

Out of curiosity though...

Who cares?

Because how this system is received and used can determine if it stays as it is or if more things are added in the future. If it does do well maybe they will add things specifically for Adventurers too, because that is a difficulty setting. Then we could all feel like we are getting something from our level of participation.

What exactly do you think Adventurer needs for participation? Every single dye obtained overland prior to CD was a reward for Adventurer difficulty, as is every story title gained. That's really all that Seasoned+ got (a few new dyes and 2 titles).

While overland challenge mode is a new system, many of our current dyes are rewards for completing vet, trial and PVP content, which are more comparable to Vestige mode than to Adventurer mode in terms of difficulty.

mdjessup4906 · June 20

gamergirldk wrote: »

with so many people around it will take no time to do this, I did in 1 houre on just master lev.

Nice to know it's easy enough i don't have any interest in the difficulty either. Ill try throwing a couple hits at the wb outside my house while waiting for a run.

heaven13 · June 20

BretonMage wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

Out of curiosity though...

Who cares?

Because how this system is received and used can determine if it stays as it is or if more things are added in the future. If it does do well maybe they will add things specifically for Adventurers too, because that is a difficulty setting. Then we could all feel like we are getting something from our level of participation.

What exactly do you think Adventurer needs for participation? Every single dye obtained overland prior to CD was a reward for Adventurer difficulty, as is every story title gained. That's really all that Seasoned+ got (a few new dyes and 2 titles).

While overland challenge mode is a new system, many of our current dyes are rewards for completing vet, trial and PVP content, which are more comparable to Vestige mode than to Adventurer mode in terms of difficulty.

But what I mean is if you compare the dyes that CD got, they literally correspond 1:1 with the monster slayer achievement dyes from pre-CD.

Construct Slayer:
- Automaton Brass (vanilla)
- Brassy Brass (CD)
Daedra Slayer
- Boethiah Gray (vanilla)
- Boethian Ash (CD)
Humanoid Slayer
- Bandit Brown (vanilla)
- Brigand Brown (CD)
Nature Slayer
- Hunter Green (vanilla)
- Vinebeard Green (CD)
Undead Slayer
- Mort Flesh White (vanilla)
- Draugr Flesh (CD)
Monster Slayer
- Stendarr White (vanilla), also comes with Monster Hunter title
- Anu White (CD)

And that's not counting the other dyes just from doing overland stuff, unrelated to dungeons.

Superior Blue (wear all blue gear)
Epic Violet (wear all purple gear)
5 different dyes just getting to level 50
Ransacker Blue (loot something blue)
Pillager Purple (loot something purple)
A dye each for joining each of the 3 base guilds (Undaunted, FG, MG)
A dye each for reaching rank 10 of the above
A dye each for completing all the story quests for FG and MG
Starlight Gold (spend first Champion point)

I'm not going to list all the dyes associated with achievements that do not come from vet, trial and PVP content but needless to say, it's a heck of a lot. There are 6 new dyes and 2 new titles for engaging in CD. That's it. And honestly it's fine. The fact that all but one can be gained on any of the options is also quite friendly. There's a single title that requires Vestige level to obtain and it's super easy to cheese.

BardokRedSnow · June 20

spartaxoxo wrote: »

BardokRedSnow wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

I can understand a player trying something before they decide if they like it, but refusing to even try things is guaranteed to cause disappointment. I'm not sure ZOS can ever satisfy players if they refuse to go near the new content etc.

Many times have I read posts telling players if they don't like something just don't do it. I've been told that more than once in this thread alone. Well that is exactly what I did but now I'm getting conflicting feedback for doing what has been advised to do.

This thread is less about not doing the content than it is about a string of content that I have no interest in. That doesn't leave a good impression about Seasons.

Perhaps you should try another game on occasion. What in the world do you want the golden pursuits to be, gathering columbine? Fishing?

SilverBride wrote: »

It will be interesting to look at the data 6 months to a year down the road after the Golden Pursuit is over and the new has worn off.

I leave my difficulty setting on master because by default even when running around in pvp gear the base game and dlc overland is too easy, and will probably bump it up to vestige for questing in the future also. I got the Vestige of title already, and master is just right for the game to me.

Ive been wanting a feature like this for years and I am annoyed it has taken this long, after ive beaten most of the dlc content I am interested in already (sorry murkmire and thieves guild). Would have loved this for solstice, and especially apocrypha, western skyrim/markarth... Morrowind... Ugh, Summerset Isles with Nocturnal probably needed it most. Waste.

Trust me, people will be using this even a year from now and beyond. I certainly will, I hate easy quest fights.

I think you'd be surprised by how good Murkmire is. One of the better self contained stories.

Really, I’ll give it a shot then. Good way to see how vestige is for the future Sheogorath stuff

SilverBride · June 20

Grafahel wrote: »

Well I'm not surprised seeing as I've never seen silverbride say anything positive about the game. I'm enjoying myself

Then you haven't read a lot of my posts.

I'm particularly amused by this because of all the times I've been accused of being a white knight for standing up for ZoS and the game.

But let's please keep to the topic of this thread.

SilverBride · June 20

heaven13 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Because how this system is received and used can determine if it stays as it is or if more things are added in the future. If it does do well maybe they will add things specifically for Adventurers too, because that is a difficulty setting. Then we could all feel like we are getting something from our level of participation.

What exactly do you think Adventurer needs for participation? Every single dye obtained overland prior to CD was a reward for Adventurer difficulty, as is every story title gained. That's really all that Seasoned+ got (a few new dyes and 2 titles).

Adventurer is a difficulty level in the new system. As such it should be treated like one and get some new things appropriate for it's level of difficulty, too. I don't know what and don't expect a lot, but something to make Adventurers feel like part of the new system, too.