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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/696147/playstation-5-patch-error-issue
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/696147/playstation-5-patch-error-issue
Vengeance final definition: a Petri dish for "one faction zerg" bacteria to grown
Scaletho
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Just push for a bunch of 30-40 dudes in just one faction (who needs competition in a messy, low attendance campaign?), spend some time ravaging all keeps in the map (the 5 dudes from other factions won't make difference), turn all map one color and leave with the "meh" rewards from 100 levels.
Few hours later, do it all over again just for the sake of boring habit. Sometimes, maybe once a day, some 20 dudes from the other side appears and a low energy siege happens. The result will not change much.
Vengeance, the best laboratory for nonsense PVP.
After some few days releasing the zerg bacteria, no one cares anymore. It's a tragic disaster.
Few hours later, do it all over again just for the sake of boring habit. Sometimes, maybe once a day, some 20 dudes from the other side appears and a low energy siege happens. The result will not change much.
Vengeance, the best laboratory for nonsense PVP.
After some few days releasing the zerg bacteria, no one cares anymore. It's a tragic disaster.
2
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Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period. It goes through cycles in a 24 hour period, with each of the factions taking the whole map at some point in the cycle. It's been that way for years. It's not a Vengeance thing, it's a Cyrodiil thing.
Blackreach right now. Low population (30 - 40):
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!12 -
dcrush✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period. It goes through cycles in a 24 hour period, with each of the factions taking the whole map at some point in the cycle. It's been that way for years. It's not a Vengeance thing, it's a Cyrodiil thing.
I’m not able to log in at the moment, what do the campaign scores on PC NA look like for Vengeance, GH and BR?0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period. It goes through cycles in a 24 hour period, with each of the factions taking the whole map at some point in the cycle. It's been that way for years. It's not a Vengeance thing, it's a Cyrodiil thing.
I’m not able to log in at the moment, what do the campaign scores on PC NA look like for Vengeance, GH and BR?
Scored are EU.
Vengeance:
EP - 29,513
DC - 28,779
AD - 26,256
Gray Host:
AD - 50,328
DC - 48,836
EP - 45,876
Blackreach only came online yesterday so not that reliable an indicator.
On GH, it looks like the Pact and Covenant went to bed, because everything is coming up yellow:
Like I said, a Cyro thing, not a Vengeance thing. And if you are wondering why the scores between the rulesets are different. The Vengeance crowd seem more tuned to primetime, so not a constant population shift during the day.
Edit: Missed WordEdited by Gabriel_H on June 18, 2026 10:30AMPC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
Alosis✭✭idk my experience with Vengeance last night wasn't anything like that. I hopped on around 7 PM EST (prime time) Reds had full control of the map, I got into a full group of 12 blues and we did take back our home keeps. However, we then went to push Carm and Brindle and while we got Carm, 30+ EP showed up and stomped our little group to the ground at Brindle, then proceeded to take back all that we had gained, including pushing the home keeps again.
I'm not sure where the other 60+ blues were if there were 80+ on all 3 factions. There were only 2 other battles on the map and it was mainly EP just zerging down any opposition.0 -
Maitsukas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The very vocal anti-Vengeance crowd in a nutshell:
PC-EU @maitsukas
Posting the Infinite Archive and Imperial City Weekly Vendor updates.
Also trying out new Main Quests, Companions, ToT decks, Events and Styles on PTS.9 -
Alosis✭✭No ones is saying to quit having fun, though where is the fun? I mean, you seem to paint this picture of large scale battles happening across all 3 factions, that Vengeance has a grand population of players engaged in the content, and when I go to "have fun" with it, I guess only EP gets to have fun. It's not fun to consistently lose gained resources if the opposition outnumbers you. Because lets be real, Vengeance is a numbers game currently, and a ton of players have figured that out and tipped the scales to EP. I just didn't see the numbers there on our side, as you've described.0
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Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭idk my experience with Vengeance last night wasn't anything like that. I hopped on around 7 PM EST (prime time) Reds had full control of the map, I got into a full group of 12 blues and we did take back our home keeps. However, we then went to push Carm and Brindle and while we got Carm, 30+ EP showed up and stomped our little group to the ground at Brindle, then proceeded to take back all that we had gained, including pushing the home keeps again.
I'm not sure where the other 60+ blues were if there were 80+ on all 3 factions. There were only 2 other battles on the map and it was mainly EP just zerging down any opposition.
Given you quoted EST I'm guessing NA server? It does seem from anecdotal reports that Vengeance on NA is less populated than on EU.No ones is saying to quit having fun, though where is the fun? I mean, you seem to paint this picture of large scale battles happening across all 3 factions, that Vengeance has a grand population of players engaged in the content, and when I go to "have fun" with it, I guess only EP gets to have fun. It's not fun to consistently lose gained resources if the opposition outnumbers you. Because lets be real, Vengeance is a numbers game currently, and a ton of players have figured that out and tipped the scales to EP. I just didn't see the numbers there on our side, as you've described.
This is somewhat true of normal Cyro too, in that typically numbers win the battles (typical of real warfare too but no always). It is more the case in Vengeance because the ruleset eliminates ball groups (which can mess up a fight, particularly if the group rolls into a 2 alliance battle), and the ruleset also reduces the class imbalance. However, that doesn't mean smaller numbers can't win the battle if strategy, tactics, and co-operation come into play more.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
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Last time I got into GH while it was pop locked there were an awful lot of people just standing around. For the last week, even during the day GH was near pop-locked, now it's down to 1 bar, right after Blackreach opened which is also at 1 bar (so that's a total of less than 70 per alliance across 2 instances). Interesting, no?!
Anyway, time will tell if the new game mode is successful or if we all go back to complaining about a performance mess that cannot be cleaned up without reducing the server calculations. Although, there is the medium sized map in the works, so maybe people will start playing that, and we can then complain how bad the population in Cyrodiil is instead.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭The devs would have to make it so that AP is split among every person who deals damage to you and heals the damage dealers instead of just splitting among group members. That way people who zerg earn less. Or just reduce the AP gained from getting multi-targeted when you die, like how IC bosses reward less telvarEdited by ceruulean on June 18, 2026 1:52PM0
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Eldovar✭✭✭✭✭
✭The devs would have to make it so that AP is split among every person who deals damage to you and heals the damage dealers instead of just splitting among group members. That way people who zerg earn less. Or just reduce the AP gained from getting multi-targeted when you die, like how IC bosses reward less telvar
LOL the whole objective for Vengeance was less useless calculations on the server. So this won't happen.
Are we gatekeeping AP and XP too now?
Most AP comes from taking keeps anyway in Vengeance.Edited by Eldovar on June 18, 2026 2:23PM1 -
s3dulo✭✭✭Balance is always a problem in Cyro. I actually hate the alliance lock thing because people switch alliances after a campaign and whatever you choose, you're stuck with for 30 days. Right now on PC NA, DC is overwhelmingly populated. Most of the day, there's nothing happening except futile attempts to take a tri-keep back.
What I would love to see is a mercenary option. All players are enemies unless you are grouped with them and you can group with anyone. Other alliance members or other mercenaries. And anyone can swap to mercenary any time they want. That would be a great way to shake up the balance.0 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭Well right now with a positive feedback loop there's no way to keep balance. The rich keep getting richer. Hence devs need to add ways to help the underdog catch up, or remove rewards when people are playing unfairly. One example is to split AP among attackers when you kill enemy players. People who gang up on others will receive less, since they have an easier time. This rewards outnumbered play. Another way is to superbuff the guards and make them heal and help players on an underpopulated faction.Edited by ceruulean on June 18, 2026 3:09PM0
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imPDA✭✭✭✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period.
The difference is: (at least) in GH and old RW - all map becomes one colored not because of zerg and lack of other players, but because of night cappers. Prime time zerg can't really color entire map because of zergs on other sides, but on Vengeance if I get it right, there is only one zerg taking entire map during prime time, so players have no courage to fight against that zerg, while on GH we have relatively equal numbers during prime time.Your Friendly Neighborhood PvP Enjoyer (prior to U48)0 -
Eldovar✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period.
The difference is: (at least) in GH and old RW - all map becomes one colored not because of zerg and lack of other players, but because of night cappers. Prime time zerg can't really color entire map because of zergs on other sides, but on Vengeance if I get it right, there is only one zerg taking entire map during prime time, so players have no courage to fight against that zerg, while on GH we have relatively equal numbers during prime time.
On Vengeance a lot of people avoid PvP, even the zergs. Usually, zergs take the keeps that have least resistance. When someone writes in zone chat 'we need to defend XX', people let them just take it and take the opportunity to take another empty keep and then later retake it. People seem to leave the scrolls alone as well. Sometimes there are a few specific usernames out there that try to bait people to wander from the group and kill you, but most people already know to disengage and tend to warn others in zone chat about those few.
I am level 55 in Veterancy and have killed like 18 people so far (according to a Cyrodill quest I picked up last week), because there is not a lot to kill usually because people are mostly farming AP and Veterancy.Edited by Eldovar on June 18, 2026 3:52PM0 -
ceruulean✭✭✭✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period.
The difference is: (at least) in GH and old RW - all map becomes one colored not because of zerg and lack of other players, but because of night cappers. Prime time zerg can't really color entire map because of zergs on other sides, but on Vengeance if I get it right, there is only one zerg taking entire map during prime time, so players have no courage to fight against that zerg, while on GH we have relatively equal numbers during prime time.
On Vengeance a lot of people avoid PvP, even the zergs. Usually, zergs take the keeps that have least resistance. When someone writes in zone chat 'we need to defend XX', people let them just take it and take the opportunity to take another empty keep and then later retake it. People seem to leave the scrolls alone as well. Sometimes there are a few specific usernames out there that try to bait people to wander from the group and kill you, but most people already know to disengage and tend to warn others in zone chat about those few.
I am level 55 in Veterancy and have killed like 18 people so far (according to a Cyrodill quest I picked up last week), because there is not a lot to kill usually because people are mostly farming AP and Veterancy.
People give up defense because of the infinite siege and no fire ballistas. It's literally impossible to fight off the offense because you can't destroy their siege and make them retreat to prepare better. Which is one of the bad design decisions that ZOS has kept.0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period.
The difference is: (at least) in GH and old RW - all map becomes one colored not because of zerg and lack of other players, but because of night cappers. Prime time zerg can't really color entire map because of zergs on other sides, but on Vengeance if I get it right, there is only one zerg taking entire map during prime time, so players have no courage to fight against that zerg, while on GH we have relatively equal numbers during prime time.
No, dude. It becomes one colour 3+ times a day precisely because of zerging. Each alliance have different times their player numbers peak. It only becomes even at pop-lock, at which point the map becomes virtually stagnant in terms of overall control, right up until one alliance starts to have players log off.
Blackreach, right now. Nickel & Fare about to turn red. Roe will be next. Guess which alliance has the most players.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's amusing because you are describing Cyrodiil period.
The difference is: (at least) in GH and old RW - all map becomes one colored not because of zerg and lack of other players, but because of night cappers. Prime time zerg can't really color entire map because of zergs on other sides, but on Vengeance if I get it right, there is only one zerg taking entire map during prime time, so players have no courage to fight against that zerg, while on GH we have relatively equal numbers during prime time.
On Vengeance a lot of people avoid PvP, even the zergs. Usually, zergs take the keeps that have least resistance. When someone writes in zone chat 'we need to defend XX', people let them just take it and take the opportunity to take another empty keep and then later retake it. People seem to leave the scrolls alone as well. Sometimes there are a few specific usernames out there that try to bait people to wander from the group and kill you, but most people already know to disengage and tend to warn others in zone chat about those few.
I am level 55 in Veterancy and have killed like 18 people so far (according to a Cyrodill quest I picked up last week), because there is not a lot to kill usually because people are mostly farming AP and Veterancy.
People give up defense because of the infinite siege and no fire ballistas. It's literally impossible to fight off the offense because you can't destroy their siege and make them retreat to prepare better. Which is one of the bad design decisions that ZOS has kept.
Sooo, I'm imagining all the times in Vengeance I've seen the siege bug out after being fought off?PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I am level 55 in Veterancy and have killed like 18 people so far (according to a Cyrodill quest I picked up last week), because there is not a lot to kill usually because people are mostly farming AP and Veterancy.
Is it the kill 150 quest? If so there are very strict conditions on what constitutes a kill. Unlike the kill 20 quests which register a kill if someone in your group gets a kill.
PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Eldovar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am level 55 in Veterancy and have killed like 18 people so far (according to a Cyrodill quest I picked up last week), because there is not a lot to kill usually because people are mostly farming AP and Veterancy.
Is it the kill 150 quest? If so there are very strict conditions on what constitutes a kill. Unlike the kill 20 quests which register a kill if someone in your group gets a kill.
Yeah that’s the one. I was puzzled how that is a daily quest given the amount of time it takes.
Edited by Eldovar on June 18, 2026 9:45PM0 -
Lekjih✭✭✭✭I am level 55 in Veterancy and have killed like 18 people so far (according to a Cyrodill quest I picked up last week), because there is not a lot to kill usually because people are mostly farming AP and Veterancy.
Is it the kill 150 quest? If so there are very strict conditions on what constitutes a kill. Unlike the kill 20 quests which register a kill if someone in your group gets a kill.
Yeah that’s the one. I was puzzled how that is a daily quest given the amount of time it takes.
It used to be a lot less.698d played, 267 days on the Warden.
ZOS won't give us Bard class so I'm scribbling songs for Nirn irl.0 -
CatalinaWineMixer2✭✭✭✭It is not the developers fault that Guilds or groups of people abuse the system. Truly fair would be, we are all assigned an Alliance based on the current population and conditions in Cyrodiil upon entry. For the duration of that particular "instance/campaign" which would have to be a much shorter duration. Like 60 or 120 min. I dont think they will ever do this and it was not designed this way originally.
There are a lot of people who do like Vengeance and it is not true they are all new players or are unfamiliar with PvP. There are 11 year vets on there, including me. When I was there the other day, I ran into 7 Grand Overlords. All of my Guilds will now only play Vengeance because of what is going on with the out of control combat in GH and BG. Vengeance only came about because of this and also the fact that they are unable salvage GH. If it goes away, I truly wont miss GH. I wish they would not allow grouping for BG and start improving and adding more activities to that instead of trying to keep a sinking ship afloat with GH1
