I have 2 pureclassed templars so I always liked Jabs gameplay. Its very easy to do decent DPS using the spear class set and deadly, so I'm having fun.

For pugs its good to me, since most of the playerbase isn't too concerned with min/max and I tend to do more damage than most of my pug teammates.

Not happy I have an armor buff replacing some of my damage in U51.

I like to off-heal as a DD, and Templar is the best class for the job. I miss the old Ritual that did both damage and healing. Abilities that do both (like Purifying Light) make the hybrid role more fun, even if the values are reduced. Hoping for more damage+healing hybrid abilities in the class refresh.

I want them to revert the Nighthollow vampire staff motif for Sweeps. It's explicitly contrary to Templar identity and looks terrible. The old spear was perfectly fine!

Many fire-themed skills should be swapped to Flame Damage. Blazing Spear DOT, Blazing Shield, Radiant, Nova, and more.

Radiant Oppression would be a lot cooler if it did AOE splash damage around the target.

Radiant Aura needs a rework. Even a small AOE cloak HOT to proc effects would be enough.

Solar Barrage never made sense as a morph of Solar Flare. Instead, Solar Barrage should be its own base ability. Solar Flare should become a morph of Sun Fire. So Sun Fire would offer Reflective Light and Solar Flare morphs. Basically: you can either split the fireball or charge it up. Solar Barrage could offer Dark Barrage and Stendarr's Aura morphs, with Defile and Flame Damage respectively.

Sun Shield could trade places with Eclipse for theme purposes. To sell the change, Eclipse could become a dark spear ability, stabbing the enemy in the sphere and around them, while Living Dark could fire spears at attackers.

While I am a Templar main, that toon is also primarily a healer. I do have a DPS build on her that I use for overland questing, but she has never been competitive DPS-wise with the later toons I created to specifically be my DPS alts.

So at least as of the immediate moment, I don't have enough of an informed opinion to really say for sure what I think about Templars from a DPS perspective now that u50 has dropped. Hence, my "Neutral" vote on the poll.

I need to experiment more and see if I can in fact get a viable DPS build going on her now.

Data points: joined ESO in 2022, and my Templar was my very first character. I've been playing her ever since.

I'm not sure about PvE right now as I haven't tested it, but for PvP at least Templar feels extremely weak right now, especially stamplar. The mastery buffs don't do enough to help. Stamplars have limited access to mobility, healing, buffs. Their main attack lags in pvp and is often better swapped for other stuff. They feel totally pointless with other classes going around zooming and doing tons of damage or WWs just wrecking everything.

Been greatly enjoying being able to play my templar again in pve. My old wrathsun build has received such a dramatic power level increase it's almost comical, and beyond vindicating.

I haven't had a chance to play it in cyro yet but I suspect I'll still be relegated to stalemating because of the double damage reduction on judgement's brand. It's probably better off just double-downing on the healing masteries. If judgement brand calculated correctly with battle-spirit in mind, I'd have voted "great."

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I think in general, pureclass Templar doesn't do much for damage dealers, and in my use case, it heavily emphasizes a tankier spec. I'd probably subclass if I wanted a more damage dealer oriented spec.

Bright Harbinger and Judgement's brand combined are a more than 25% dps increase. Getting above 175k on a dummy parse is doable for a skilled weaver, and it translates better into content than most classes on a parse dummy.

i like Templar, but i am excited for its Refresh and hope it will be better.

coop500 wrote: »

Sustain is rough, and a lot of the time the class just doesn't feel as impactful as most others. Not quite good enough to tank, and there's other healers that provide better buffs. Fights in ESO are too mobile to have this 'stand in a small circle' type of gameplay too. I hope the refresh steps away from that.

It's weird the one thing I never have with my Templars is sustain issues, literally never!

All of them a magicka, I don't get on with stamina builds in any class, usually Breton and I use Bewitched Sugar Skulls for harder content and Witchmother's Potent Brew for base game WB's, Dungeons etc.

With Sugar Skulls I can pretty much roll dodge and break free whenever needed.

I've been happily solo-ing Summerset WB's this past week and if I keep Bastian alive(IF lol) they are easy, if he dies I just have to be a bit more mobile!!

coop500 wrote: »

Sustain is rough, and a lot of the time the class just doesn't feel as impactful as most others. Not quite good enough to tank, and there's other healers that provide better buffs. Fights in ESO are too mobile to have this 'stand in a small circle' type of gameplay too. I hope the refresh steps away from that.

What small circle? Restoring Focus doesn't require you to stand in the circle except to receive a boost to healing. Ritual's area is massive compared to most AoE.

Templar's make great tanks, and did long before U50, but they do have a steep learning curve. Templar tanks have what is close to a full rotation (like a DD does) unlike other tanks.

From a PvP perspective nothing has really changed IMO. Though it depends on the build.

I have 9 PvP templars and I can tell you that the masteries in templar were at least better than NB, but templar's main problem isn't a stat-based issue.

Sure I can go over 9000 WD/SD, but it doesn't actually matter this patch and won't matter for a while (at least in PvP) because of a few things:

1. Templar as a class is bad, we'll expand on that with the other points

2. Templar lacks skills actually work slotting

I don't know about the other templars, but when I play the class my bar does not have many templar skills and never all templar skills. Aside from jabs which is usually on the bar just because it's AoE, there isn't a templar skills I have consistently slotted or a skill line I am not willing to give up for subclassing. That's because the skills aren't really worth slotting versus what I could be slotting.

Templar still lacks a slottable skill that provides major crit or another buff worth having -- just like nEcro, and forcing me to run potions, magelight/camo hunter (that are still 1 bar for some reason that escapes common sense by now), or other skills I don't want to slot means I have to waste a slot for at least 1 useless skill (or take a useless action) where I wouldn't be on warden, NB, sorc, DK, arcanist (at least they get major brutality/sorcery with a slot table). sun fire and it's morphs have no combat utility in PvP due to the overnerfing of DoTs and fact that they can be easily dodged anyway. It's a bad skill and I dont' think anyone uses it really in PvE either

This is something ZOS could have addressed easily without reworking the classes, but for some reason refuses to do so for templar and necromancer. And this slottable major savagery thing is an example of what I mean by ZOS not bringing universal options up to date and providing at least a proper stop-gap for the classes that aren't being reworked

3. Templar heals falling behind other options ZOS compares them to

A class that used to be defined by healing is outperformed by nearly every other class in the game except only one skill in the class: extended ritual. I heal in PvP all the time, and I'm not joking -- I only slot extended ritual on my templars, if I even slot that. On a class that used to be defined by healing, I'm not slotting the heals provided by the class because they fall behind subclassed heals, and they also fall behind even scribed heals. There is nothing unique or purposeful about templar healing and hasn't been for a long while. The masteries do not properly address this because you only get two options, and even if you did get to slot all of them that isn't really enough to bring these skills into line when they aren't worth slotting.

^ That right there is reality, and exactly why I oppose the idea of ZOS attempting to pigeonhole templar into healing/tanking when the class is actually one of the worst ones to choose in PvP right now. I don't want to be pigeonholed into a role the class currently sucks at versus every other option. At least Necro has the revive ult, and arcanist provides group shields.

The lack of a self-only burst heal is a nice triple slap if you're pure classing and have tried other options subclassing that provides one. I honestly cannot understand the logic here: the dev team wants the class to be a group healer or buff support, and it sucks at it on every level versus every other option and lacks anything unique.

And that armor buff idea they are trying to push is not a solution, it's just a nerf to templars that didn't ask for it.

4. Templar damage options, that is the skills that do damage are lackluster and also not worth slotting in a PvP context

I don't think I need to even explain this one. I am sure EVERYONE that plays templar knows what I mean. How many of you really slot anything from Dawn's Wrath after all the nerfing they've done? Maybe Living Dark and the Nova; maybe Piercing Javeling and it's morphs. But Living Dark isn't a damage skill, and Nova is an ult. The skills aren't worth slotting!

Wow, what a strange thing to have to say AGAIN about the class. Too many skills aren't worth slotting which leads me to go to the final point that I think I've already said before on these forums regarding templar (and necromancer):

TLDR: Templar has not identity and excels at absolutely nothing any other class couldn't do better. The masteries do nothing to address them because the class' issues lies in it's terrible skill lines that have little to nothing to offer v. subclassing and scribing.

You can get hugeeeeeeee weapon and spell damage, but you have no real skills to actually exploit and make use of it. In exchange for the stat boost you give up TOO MUCH POSSIBILITY that you gain from subclassing. You lose the ability to sustain, flexibility, a self-only heal, superior group healing, buff uptimes, and all-roundedness that isn't possible on the current templar class due to a lack of skills that do anything other than fill up space in the skill line.

Because let's be honest, if you're a templar you aren't slotting most of those skills. And it's because they are lackluster versus even weapon skill lines. I even slot bloodthirst over jabs because at least I can cancel it better and use it as my only spammable skill in PvP and kill people and it has a built in execute.

Jabs is subject to major evasion and minor evasion, which makes it not only worse on paper than blood thirst, but far worse in reality. And it's not like it has a proper snare to stop anyone from just walking away from it or utilizing speed to drop the damage off.

And jabs also needs a target search before it applies damage, which translates into a delay, that can be used to avoid damage or force misses if the person your are fighting (or if you've seen me and you use jabs you know you never damage me and it's all missing constantly, here's some knowledge dropping). This makes jabs not only inferior to weapon options, but completely useless depending on the situation.

And when it's one of the few slottable options that a pure class templar has, is it any wonder that the pure class feels like a joke in PvP and falls behind no matter what?

Why would I even play templar versus any other class right now? I literally feel like it's just like necro with a different paint coat, and slightly better only because of toppling charge, living dark, javelin, and cleansing ritual . The only 4 skills worth slotting, though even those aren't consistently worth it.

And some might call that identity, but when the entire class is defined by "maybe" slotting 4 skills, I think it's a problem. I think it's a problem because those 4 skills don't exist in the same skill lines and mean that the other skill lines aren't worth keeping if you can give them up 1/2 the time or more.

And another skill line, no matter which one, offers more than those skills do meaning that it simply isn't worth keeping those skill lines versus subclassing; and it isn't worth pure classing.

But ZOS doesn't care and most players don't either. That's why I just fire siege.

I could spend an hour dissecting that, but I'll skip the wall of text and just go right to the summary.

Two things:

1) Jabs. You can block cancel it.

2) You listed 4 skills and none of them were Backlash and Radiant Destruction. Not to mention Rune Focus, especially if you are PvPing. Also for group PvP, Incantation is a phenomenal ultimate choice.

Edit: Typo

Radiate77 wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Luneca wrote: »

From a PvP perspective nothing has really changed IMO. Though it depends on the build.

I have 9 PvP templars and I can tell you that the masteries in templar were at least better than NB, but templar's main problem isn't a stat-based issue.

Sure I can go over 9000 WD/SD, but it doesn't actually matter this patch and won't matter for a while (at least in PvP) because of a few things:

1. Templar as a class is bad, we'll expand on that with the other points

2. Templar lacks skills actually work slotting

I don't know about the other templars, but when I play the class my bar does not have many templar skills and never all templar skills. Aside from jabs which is usually on the bar just because it's AoE, there isn't a templar skills I have consistently slotted or a skill line I am not willing to give up for subclassing. That's because the skills aren't really worth slotting versus what I could be slotting.

Templar still lacks a slottable skill that provides major crit or another buff worth having -- just like nEcro, and forcing me to run potions, magelight/camo hunter (that are still 1 bar for some reason that escapes common sense by now), or other skills I don't want to slot means I have to waste a slot for at least 1 useless skill (or take a useless action) where I wouldn't be on warden, NB, sorc, DK, arcanist (at least they get major brutality/sorcery with a slot table). sun fire and it's morphs have no combat utility in PvP due to the overnerfing of DoTs and fact that they can be easily dodged anyway. It's a bad skill and I dont' think anyone uses it really in PvE either

This is something ZOS could have addressed easily without reworking the classes, but for some reason refuses to do so for templar and necromancer. And this slottable major savagery thing is an example of what I mean by ZOS not bringing universal options up to date and providing at least a proper stop-gap for the classes that aren't being reworked

3. Templar heals falling behind other options ZOS compares them to

A class that used to be defined by healing is outperformed by nearly every other class in the game except only one skill in the class: extended ritual. I heal in PvP all the time, and I'm not joking -- I only slot extended ritual on my templars, if I even slot that. On a class that used to be defined by healing, I'm not slotting the heals provided by the class because they fall behind subclassed heals, and they also fall behind even scribed heals. There is nothing unique or purposeful about templar healing and hasn't been for a long while. The masteries do not properly address this because you only get two options, and even if you did get to slot all of them that isn't really enough to bring these skills into line when they aren't worth slotting.

^ That right there is reality, and exactly why I oppose the idea of ZOS attempting to pigeonhole templar into healing/tanking when the class is actually one of the worst ones to choose in PvP right now. I don't want to be pigeonholed into a role the class currently sucks at versus every other option. At least Necro has the revive ult, and arcanist provides group shields.

The lack of a self-only burst heal is a nice triple slap if you're pure classing and have tried other options subclassing that provides one. I honestly cannot understand the logic here: the dev team wants the class to be a group healer or buff support, and it sucks at it on every level versus every other option and lacks anything unique.

And that armor buff idea they are trying to push is not a solution, it's just a nerf to templars that didn't ask for it.

4. Templar damage options, that is the skills that do damage are lackluster and also not worth slotting in a PvP context

I don't think I need to even explain this one. I am sure EVERYONE that plays templar knows what I mean. How many of you really slot anything from Dawn's Wrath after all the nerfing they've done? Maybe Living Dark and the Nova; maybe Piercing Javeling and it's morphs. But Living Dark isn't a damage skill, and Nova is an ult. The skills aren't worth slotting!

Wow, what a strange thing to have to say AGAIN about the class. Too many skills aren't worth slotting which leads me to go to the final point that I think I've already said before on these forums regarding templar (and necromancer):

TLDR: Templar has not identity and excels at absolutely nothing any other class couldn't do better. The masteries do nothing to address them because the class' issues lies in it's terrible skill lines that have little to nothing to offer v. subclassing and scribing.

You can get hugeeeeeeee weapon and spell damage, but you have no real skills to actually exploit and make use of it. In exchange for the stat boost you give up TOO MUCH POSSIBILITY that you gain from subclassing. You lose the ability to sustain, flexibility, a self-only heal, superior group healing, buff uptimes, and all-roundedness that isn't possible on the current templar class due to a lack of skills that do anything other than fill up space in the skill line.

Because let's be honest, if you're a templar you aren't slotting most of those skills. And it's because they are lackluster versus even weapon skill lines. I even slot bloodthirst over jabs because at least I can cancel it better and use it as my only spammable skill in PvP and kill people and it has a built in execute.

Jabs is subject to major evasion and minor evasion, which makes it not only worse on paper than blood thirst, but far worse in reality. And it's not like it has a proper snare to stop anyone from just walking away from it or utilizing speed to drop the damage off.

And jabs also needs a target search before it applies damage, which translates into a delay, that can be used to avoid damage or force misses if the person your are fighting (or if you've seen me and you use jabs you know you never damage me and it's all missing constantly, here's some knowledge dropping). This makes jabs not only inferior to weapon options, but completely useless depending on the situation.

And when it's one of the few slottable options that a pure class templar has, is it any wonder that the pure class feels like a joke in PvP and falls behind no matter what?

Why would I even play templar versus any other class right now? I literally feel like it's just like necro with a different paint coat, and slightly better only because of toppling charge, living dark, javelin, and cleansing ritual . The only 4 skills worth slotting, though even those aren't consistently worth it.

And some might call that identity, but when the entire class is defined by "maybe" slotting 4 skills, I think it's a problem. I think it's a problem because those 4 skills don't exist in the same skill lines and mean that the other skill lines aren't worth keeping if you can give them up 1/2 the time or more.

And another skill line, no matter which one, offers more than those skills do meaning that it simply isn't worth keeping those skill lines versus subclassing; and it isn't worth pure classing.

But ZOS doesn't care and most players don't either. That's why I just fire siege.

I could spend an hour dissecting that, but I'll skip the wall of text and just go right to the summary.

Two things:

1) Jabs. You can block cancel it.

2) You listed 4 skills and none of them were Backlash and Radiant Destruction. Not to mention Rune Focus, especially if you are PvPing. Also for group PvP, Repentance is a phenomenal ultimate choice.

Repentance is an morph of Aura, not an Ultimate. 😂

Meant Incantation. This is what happens on 4 hours of sleep in 3 days people!

Edit: But not for nothing, Repentance is also a phenomenal PvP skill for group play.

Radiate77 wrote: »

You say Jabs can be block canceled, but the skill does nothing in PvP without entire build investment, neither does Backlash, and with the change to Radiant Destruction’s interaction with Roll Dodge… that skill is dead too.

Rune Focus is one of two skills worth anything on Templar, and even that will be in question when we get our Rework and sustain becomes entirely free like Dragonknight and now Werewolf.

A 20% WD boost on demand is useless? Ok. PotL is two instances of burst damage plus an armour reduction from 28/35m, and if a player can time a roll dodge precise enough to avoid the damage tick from Radiant they deserve to beat me. Seriously, do you know how hard that is to do?!

And you don't take Rune Focus in PvP for the sustain, you take it for the Major Resolve.

James-Wayne wrote: »

3 passives are linked to one passive on the healer support line... I feel Templar class masteries were rushed and never really thought out very well.

Other classes looked amazing thou!

Skill lines are mixed between roles. Sacred Ground is much more a tanking passive than it is healer. And one of the passives links it to the other skill lines giving it some PvP and Solo utility.

Ardriel wrote: »

Templar is currently the weakest class in PVE, even though it’s possible to deal 170k+ DPS on the dummy with the IA set. Consider that other classes can do 200k+. Of course only the best players can get such numbers.
It’s a shame that AL set is almost useless in real content. The radius needs to be larger and it would be better if it spawned around the player themselves - not in front of, next to, or behind the boss. Especially in veteran DLC dungeons and raids, it’s not really advisable to have to dance around in front of bosses. If they would at least increase the radius maybe then you could stay behind bosses.
Templar Class Mastery definitely needs more power to keep up with the other classes. And the AL set needs a fix.
Unfortunately, this poll gives the impression that everything is great and all players are satisfied. It might be okay for solo play and random dungeons. But for raids, the Templar is currently not really competitive.

The IA sets are junk for content, but a good weaver can break 175k on a dummy, and Templar dps translates better from dummy to content than most (if not all) classes. Only a few other class builds with very skilled weavers get to the 200k mark on a dummy.

Templar dps isn't at the top spot, nor should it be, as there shouldn't be one. It is however firmly in the middle of the pack.

Top DPS for vLC HM U49: https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/18?metric=bossdps&class=DPS&partition=28

Top DPS for vLC HM U50: https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/18?metric=bossdps&class=DPS

I hope jabs becomes fun again for magplars.