U50 Feedback Thread for Combat Refresh: Werewolf

Wuuffyy · June 14

Udrath wrote: »

Please disable passives and class mastery for werewolf form, maybe compensate with another unique buff. This would help in the long run so classes are not nerfed because of werewolf.

The class you play shouldn’t have an impact while in werewolf form. I believe the only thing that should matter is gear, attributes, Mundus.

People shouldn’t have to play a certain class entirely for werewolf. Maybe give werewolves a unique Mundas stone for people dedicated.

Otherwise one of the best reworks so far!

The class passives will be toned down over time with subsequent reworks or relegated more to using the actual class if DK is any example.

Refer to my previous comment about referring to why PvP changes are made that seem bonkers but are in reality in line with their PvE model/goal (I believe we may also just have 1 combat dev over both now also which would make sense but I could be wrong there).

It is unlikely that the mastery passives would be toned down for werewolf specifically, if anything they will be toned down as they are generally too strong- but even then it would seem that it’s unlikely the changes would be that drastic if they are PvE focused as I reasonably suspect.

Again, I had made a suggestion of the ‘here is 5, pick 2’ system I.E. werewolf mastery but I honestly and generally agree that the more they fully lock werewolf out of the less interesting it is and the fewer build choices it has.

I feel like these could remedy themselves over time (as masteries are changed) but I also feel a 50% reduction to non-reworked damage masteries (not majors/minors but like Warden/sorc/(insert NB damage mastery, etc.) would be a good stop gap while we wait for mastery reworks down the line if they deem this to be an extreme issue. My 2 cents at least.

Wuuffyy · June 14

Tonturri wrote: »

AShadyKhajiit wrote: »

As far as werewolf ultimate morphs, Pack Leader is very strong in PvP. For Berserker, I think the ability to generate fury should be improved for this morph further. Berserker could even provide additional fury generation for other grouped ww (might be too op though but I think it would be ok as long as it didn't stack). Berserker needs something to make it better, I am unsure what, but the slight dmg increase is too minimal to give up all the good stuff Packleader offers.

I've been using WW in some dragonstar arena runs (farming the lead at the end) and pack leader is just so much easier to maintain. The damage also isn't far behind anyway, making zerker feel pointless. With pack leader I will never fall out of WW form, but in zerker - even with using the WW cost reduction food on a sorcerer (-15% ult cost) - I still have to eat a few corpses and/or be mindful of combat otherwise I can fall out of WW form.

It's good to have a difference between the two morphs, but I don't think the way they current shape build decisions re: ult gen and staying in form is the way to do it. Ultimate being replaced by Fury also effectively removes a lot of sets from consideration - if it helps to generate ult, once you have perma-WW form (something that isn't a consideration for pack leader but is for zerker, even if only a little) anything that generates ult is useless.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the rework, but I wish the WW ult still consumed ult. I think ZOS missed an opportunity here to have the in-form ult cost be something like 50-70 ult (mayb even 100), equalize the ult consumption from staying in WW form, and have the ult be a very short version of the current ult (5-10 sec) + empower the next 1-3 skill uses. This would add in ult gen as a consideration for WW builds again, remove the whole weird ult cost difference between the morphs, and let WWs customize how much they wanted to invest in ult gen on top of the -100/10 sec to increase buff and skill empower uptime. Certainly not a perfect idea off the top of my head, of course, but after playing with it for a bit I'm not sure I vibe much with the whole Fury thing. I could really go for a big 'ol bite ultimate. Pressing a button for a generic buff (that doesn't seem to even have an animation?) doesn't do it for me.

It's hard to differentiate the two morphs further when one of the differences between them is just simple upkeep of the WW form, imo. Also, I'm miffed that pack leader gets 4k health regen on ult use while zerker gets nothing extra? Am I missing something here.

Udrath wrote: »

Please disable passives and class mastery for werewolf form, maybe compensate with another unique buff. This would help in the long run so classes are not nerfed because of werewolf.

The class you play shouldn’t have an impact while in werewolf form. I believe the only thing that should matter is gear, attributes, Mundus.

People shouldn’t have to play a certain class entirely for werewolf. Maybe give werewolves a unique Mundas stone for people dedicated.

Otherwise one of the best reworks so far!

I don't want class to be completely unimpactful on WW builds. At that point you might as well just make WW a class on its own, and at 5 skills + no bar swap + generic ult I'm not too fond of that idea. It's fun but would get old relatively quickly otherwise. I think part of what is needed to make WW complete is having a class under it - picking sorc for sorc reasons, dk for (presumably) extra durability passives, and so on. There are some janky, OP class masteries atm and I wouldn't want ZOS to knee-jerk block them entirely from working during WW just cause of that, plus the usual new OP mythic floating around that we're likely stuck with for a few patches. We also have a lot more class redesigns to go. I'm hoping that builds that involve swapping between base class and WW becomes more of a thing, instead of perma one or the other.

Focusing on your point about ‘just using Packleader’ instead of Berserker…

I unfortunately find myself in the same boat to be honest with PvP especially.

With the 1 second and reduced damage (from before rework) dot, it’s really difficult for Berserker to be competitive when it’s requiring me to both weave perfectly and constantly be on my target just for what I perceive as marginal benefit over Packleader especially when you consider how important damage reduction is in a PvP environment.

The main reason I am using Berserker currently is for the dye color and because I typically play with my duo to alleviate ult costs. When they drop the event that allows us to farm the base colors, I am likely to switch to Packleader and just rock the black recolor instead.

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Unrelated to reply but- to whoever said ‘rip and tear’ op for all the reasons besides healing (which again I do have suggestions for as listed above)… go look at Warden beetles please. Werewolf only has 1 bar and as such will be similar to Oakensoul in that you receive many buffs (and debuffs in this case) in 1 place especially in exchange for lack of versatility. (also P.S. we had major breach and minor breach chance on demand with higher tooltips and werewolf was horrid still)

We have essentially no access to pen in-kit and we cannot source roughly the 3k from maces or 10% direct damage from Lightning staff (comparable damage) either. We NEED pen like everyone else and this move is not horrendously egregious compared to even that skill.

Even the healing to a degree is merited (again, not fully- not exactly current values) because it’s ’healing while attacking’ and we are locked out of vigor (and/or crit surge as this behaves very similarly in that I hit my enemy and get healing from it passively).

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I believe you can’t take a werewolf tooltip out of context because in fact it requires the upmost context possible to understand I.E. what you don’t in/with werewolf that the average person does have/ will have after a rework.

Additionally, Bloody Gnash is parsing higher in PvE now at the cost of utility (remember it gets a damage increase with hunger stacks and a much higher exe threshold). To me, the trade-off is appropriate and may only seem the opposite with the high importance of pen in PvP (which is exactly why we need something in our kit granting a decent amount of it (like breach).

If any adjustments are made it should be to either buff Bloody Gnash (which I don’t think it needs) or to adjust healing on both morphs while in PvP (such as to scale from wep/spell damage along with at least the ‘claws’ morph as said many times before).