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People would rather wait hours in queue than olay vengeance
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Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
Since one bar is all you ever see in Vengeance here's what that gets you
Wow, look a snapshot of a one sided map because that never happens in GH, except every day, 3 times a day. If that's what your argument boils down to, you don't have an argument.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!6 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.PS4 EU3 -
Luneca✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Uh, ZOS reset everyone's points in Gray Host and made you re-home it. And for some, like me, we can't get any AP in Gray Host because they did that. Thanks ZOS.2 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.Edited by L_Nici on June 10, 2026 10:18AMPC|EU1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
If someone really wants to play Vengeance I give them enough agency to be able to set it as home, otherwise they never really wanted to do it anyway.Edited by L_Nici on June 10, 2026 10:23AMPC|EU7 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
No, dude. That's why people selected GH as their home campaign. /facepalmPC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
No, dude. That's why people selected GH as their home campaign. /facepalm
Yeah, it is my habit as Blackreach player to chose Grey Host as Home, it is my habit as PvE player to set Grey Host as Home, it is my habit as Ravenwatch player to set Grey Host as home. And that new Vengeance thing which I of course wanted sooo badly, because its so much better, I do not touch, because its not my habit...
Face it, not even nearly as many people wanted Vengeance as you wish to believe. It is dead, it will stay dead.Edited by L_Nici on June 10, 2026 10:26AMPC|EU3 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
If someone really wants to play Vengeance I give them enough agency to be able to set it as home.
As for accepting defeat. I have said many times I am not a fan of Vengeance. I think there were cleaner ways to address the performance problems. However, even those solutions would have resulted in a different mode to GH.
GH does not work on a fundamental level. It is too server resource intensive as is. Something had to change to get back to the vision of large scale battles. The only ones not accepting that reality (aka defeat) are the same people who were the most vocal about the performance problems. JHC!PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!0 -
Demonwolff✭✭✭GH 1 bar =33ish players 3 = 100 and cap per alliance
Veng 1 bar = 100 players 3 = 300 and cap per alliance
pretty simple math
So while I agree there are issues with Veng, and they were put forth, comparing bars is not a relevant argument to support your opinion.
Vengeance has great potential but needs a lot of work and probably should not have gone live yet. However here we are.
I do agree that Black Reach and Raven Watch SHOULD have stayed active while Veng was fine tuned but if that had happened it would have caused other issues and fed the animals for their rage posts.
The truth is Grey host will never appeal to everyone nor will Vengeance. That's a good thing. The sweats have a place to play and so do the casuals and more skill driven based players. Yes I said it, If you need the sets or meta build to make you feel relevant you likely lack a certain amount of skill. This is not an insult, and does not apply to everyone, but will ring true to many of the people that now rage my post lol.
However there needs to be a 3rd option available for the in between players. IC is great but its not Cyrodiil where many guilds like to run together and taking that option out was a poor choice.[Demonwolff]
Don't be an A hole because then Ill be an A hole! Trust me I'm Better at it!4 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
If someone really wants to play Vengeance I give them enough agency to be able to set it as home.
As for accepting defeat. I have said many times I am not a fan of Vengeance. I think there were cleaner ways to address the performance problems. However, even those solutions would have resulted in a different mode to GH.
GH does not work on a fundamental level. It is too server resource intensive as is. Something had to change to get back to the vision of large scale battles. The only ones not accepting that reality (aka defeat) are the same people who were the most vocal about the performance problems. JHC!
Then why are you defending it?? Just for the lulz or what?PC|EU1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Demonwolff wrote: »GH 1 bar =33ish players 3 = 100 and cap per alliance
Veng 1 bar = 100 players 3 = 300 and cap per alliance
pretty simple math
So while I agree there are issues with Veng, and they were put forth, comparing bars is not a relevant argument to support your opinion.
Vengeance has great potential but needs a lot of work and probably should not have gone live yet. However here we are.
I do agree that Black Reach and Raven Watch SHOULD have stayed active while Veng was fine tuned but if that had happened it would have caused other issues and fed the animals for their rage posts.
The truth is Grey host will never appeal to everyone nor will Vengeance. That's a good thing. The sweats have a place to play and so do the casuals and more skill driven based players. Yes I said it, If you need the sets or meta build to make you feel relevant you likely lack a certain amount of skill. This is not an insult, and does not apply to everyone, but will ring true to many of the people that now rage my post lol.
However there needs to be a 3rd option available for the in between players. IC is great but its not Cyrodiil where many guilds like to run together and taking that option out was a poor choice.
Thats why we already moved beyond that and compare the player numbers itself. They are visible in game now, and while Grey Host sits at 500+ which is the maximum of that list, as of yesterday at the same time, after Home campaigns and points got reset, Vengeance had 199 players in total.PC|EU1 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
If someone really wants to play Vengeance I give them enough agency to be able to set it as home.
As for accepting defeat. I have said many times I am not a fan of Vengeance. I think there were cleaner ways to address the performance problems. However, even those solutions would have resulted in a different mode to GH.
GH does not work on a fundamental level. It is too server resource intensive as is. Something had to change to get back to the vision of large scale battles. The only ones not accepting that reality (aka defeat) are the same people who were the most vocal about the performance problems. JHC!
Then why are you defending it?? Just for the lulz or what?
Still with the faulty premises. I'm not defending anything. I'm simply pointing out that others KEEP returning to the same faulty premises time and time and time again.
"Lulz GH has 3 bars and Venegance only has 2. Guhuh!"PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!2 -
Gabriel_H✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Demonwolff wrote: »GH 1 bar =33ish players 3 = 100 and cap per alliance
Veng 1 bar = 100 players 3 = 300 and cap per alliance
pretty simple math
So while I agree there are issues with Veng, and they were put forth, comparing bars is not a relevant argument to support your opinion.
Vengeance has great potential but needs a lot of work and probably should not have gone live yet. However here we are.
I do agree that Black Reach and Raven Watch SHOULD have stayed active while Veng was fine tuned but if that had happened it would have caused other issues and fed the animals for their rage posts.
The truth is Grey host will never appeal to everyone nor will Vengeance. That's a good thing. The sweats have a place to play and so do the casuals and more skill driven based players. Yes I said it, If you need the sets or meta build to make you feel relevant you likely lack a certain amount of skill. This is not an insult, and does not apply to everyone, but will ring true to many of the people that now rage my post lol.
However there needs to be a 3rd option available for the in between players. IC is great but its not Cyrodiil where many guilds like to run together and taking that option out was a poor choice.
Thats why we already moved beyond that and compare the player numbers itself. They are visible in game now, and while Grey Host sits at 500+ which is the maximum of that list, as of yesterday at the same time, after Home campaigns and points got reset, Vengeance had 199 players in total.
No, you are not comparing player numbers. You are comparing players who have made it their home campaign. Those are not the same thing. How hard is simple logic to understand?
Vengeance may be a total flop, and GH may win the battle. May, or it may not - but there does need to be weeks, and months of data first, not days.
And if Vengeance is a flop, the congrats,. you were all proved right. And you can now go back to complaining about the poor performance of Cyro for another 10 years, while ZOS try to figure out something that will work, and that you lot will be happy with.PC EU
Never get involved in a land war in Asia - it's one of the classic blunders!3 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Uh, ZOS reset everyone's points in Gray Host and made you re-home it. And for some, like me, we can't get any AP in Gray Host because they did that. Thanks ZOS.
Sorry, didn't realise that. Haven't been in yet because I'm still enjoying NM. There could still be reasons tho. Maybe your guild plays on GH but you play Vengeance when you go in without them. Maybe you re-homed before you decided. People like to stick with what's familiar, but not necessarily because it's better.
At the end of the day, why does it even matter? If it only ever has half the pop of GH who cares? If vengeance becomes PvP for PvEers then it's a win-win for PvPers. You still have GH but without the "potatoes taking up server space" (actual quote from cyro zone chat). Yes they need to sort out something about the alliance lock and obviously there's bugs to work out, but complaining about it just existing is kinda like saying there shouldn't be normal dungeons because you only play vet HM. Each to their own.
Vengeance is obviously more about cross play than anything else anyway, so until that arrives it's not going to shine. We'll see how it really stacks up after that.
As for the queues, they'll settle down once veterancy beds in a bit and half the server isn't trying to have a look at the new thing.PS4 EU0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
If someone really wants to play Vengeance I give them enough agency to be able to set it as home.
As for accepting defeat. I have said many times I am not a fan of Vengeance. I think there were cleaner ways to address the performance problems. However, even those solutions would have resulted in a different mode to GH.
GH does not work on a fundamental level. It is too server resource intensive as is. Something had to change to get back to the vision of large scale battles. The only ones not accepting that reality (aka defeat) are the same people who were the most vocal about the performance problems. JHC!
Then why are you defending it?? Just for the lulz or what?
Still with the faulty premises. I'm not defending anything. I'm simply pointing out that others KEEP returning to the same faulty premises time and time and time again.
"Lulz GH has 3 bars and Venegance only has 2. Guhuh!"
But thats not what I did. I did compare the actual number of individual players, not the bars.PC|EU0 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
If someone really wants to play Vengeance I give them enough agency to be able to set it as home.
As for accepting defeat. I have said many times I am not a fan of Vengeance. I think there were cleaner ways to address the performance problems. However, even those solutions would have resulted in a different mode to GH.
GH does not work on a fundamental level. It is too server resource intensive as is. Something had to change to get back to the vision of large scale battles. The only ones not accepting that reality (aka defeat) are the same people who were the most vocal about the performance problems. JHC!
Then why are you defending it?? Just for the lulz or what?
Still with the faulty premises. I'm not defending anything. I'm simply pointing out that others KEEP returning to the same faulty premises time and time and time again.
"Lulz GH has 3 bars and Venegance only has 2. Guhuh!"
And yet the fact that “1 bar Vengeance may not mean exactly 100 players” does not seem to be a factor.
Yes. Vengeance has a higher pop cap (300/alliance) than Grey Host (120/alliance). Yes, that means that the icon showing “1/3 of the population” (aka “1 bar”) means a max of 100 in Vengeance and a max of 40 in Grey Host. That is obvious, and anyone saying “3 bar GH > 1 bar Vengeance” is objectively wrong.
However. One bar of Vengeance means a maximum of 100. It does not mean “there are 100 people here.” As such, confidently stating “1 bar Vengeance means there are more people than 2 bar GH” is not guaranteed. It is possible, yes. But it is also possible the other way.
Consider: how many bars would show if one alliance had 94 players in Vengeance? One.
How many bars would show if one alliance had 16 players in Vengeance? One.
“One bar” in Vengeance really means any range from 1-100, so trying to say it has to be more or less than GH based on the number of bars is not considering that they may not be filled. We can’t really say there are more in one versus the other unless we consider the full range of what they could have.
If both canpaigns had two bars, that would mean Vengeance was at 101-200 players to GH’s 41-80, so clearly Vengeance had more. But if we’re seeing 1 bar Vengeance to 3 in GH, the real set of numbers is “GH has 81-120 players and Vengeance has 1-100 players,” which means neither is guaranteed to have more than the other.
(Sidenote, there are actually 4 icons: one, two, and three bars, and then the lock, which console UI sees as zero, one, two, or three wedges filled. We also don’t know if all four fill equally, or if it fill as three and only puts the lock at the end, or even if they scale the icons to different values. Even us assuming it’s scaled evenly in three stages is an assumption)3 -
LunaFlora✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭population bars said full, but it took less than a minute for me to enter Grey Host.
Vengeance is good too, but i am glad we have bothmiaow this is my forum signature! my name is Luna ( she/her ).
🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
"Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
🦬🦌🐰
PlayStation EU is my primary server.
LunaFloraBlossom on PlayStation 5 and PC.
my main character is a Bosmer Warden named Greehnhart in-game, Greenie Florahart in full.
all characters on PS EU:- Luna Blossom, Bosmer Dragonknight.
- Dotty Greehnhart, Bosmer Sorcerer.
- Lía Greehnhart, Khajiit Nightblade.
- Lady Greehnhart, Altmer Templar. Lady is her name and title.
- Holly Blossom, Altmer Sorcerer.
- Sally Jadehart, Argonian Nightblade. Like a green salamander.
- Dorothy Pizzalover, Orc Warden. add pizzas to the game please.
- Greehnhart, Bosmer Warden.
- Lúcia Azurehart, imperial Necromancer. Azureblight, she has a Maarselok outfit.
- Bunny Rubyhart, Dunmer Nightblade.
- Wisteria Antheia, Khajiit Templar. blue hair like the wisteria.
- Cynthia Turquesa, Breton Warden.
- Rubyhart, Bosmer Nightblade.
- Hestia Rubyhart, Dunmer Dragonknight.
- Aurelia Cherryhart, Altmer Warden. Spriggan.
- Aurora Honey, Redguard Templar. Meridian cultist.
- Speaks-With-Blossom, Argonian Warden.
- Lulu Nightshade, Nord Necromancer.
- Lunetta Gleamblossom, Bosmer Arcanist. Ohmes Khajiit.
- Dianna Hyacinth, Altmer Arcanist. Maormer, water hyacinth.
Links to my Housing threads:Weapon Racks
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/692081/housing-request-weapon-racks-wishlist-with-pictures
Desks
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691313/housing-request-more-desk-furnishings-please
Orc
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/687765/wishlist-for-orcish-furnishings
Music control
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683673/request-for-housing-music-changer
Sanguine
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/679400/housing-sanguine-furnishings-from-west-solstice-please
Statues
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/691652/housing-statues-from-zones-as-furnishings-please
Links to my Fashion threads:Tassets and Loincloths
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/650919/list-of-outfit-styles-without-tassets-and-loincloths-will-try-to-update
Outfit System refresh
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/690938/lunas-outfit-system-improvements-request-thread
Dye Stamps
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/688775/please-let-us-collect-the-dye-stamp-exclusive-dyes-outfit-system-request
Unavailable Styles
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/686841/please-release-all-unavailable-outfit-styles-for-outfits3 -
Alosis✭It may be true that 3 bars in GH is 1 bar in Vengence. However, just because Vengence shows 1 bar doesn't mean it is consistently at 3 bars GH all the time. People need to quit acting like Vengence has at least 300 people in it just because 3 factions each show 1 bar. 1 bar Vengence means anywhere from 1 to 300.
I would wager that right now it's only about 150 "active" players across all 3 factions. I say "active" as those players genuinely want to play in Vengence and they're not just checking out the new toys.
Also, we don't need to wait weeks, months, years for data. Data is available right now, and the hype for Vengence was blown way out of proportion to what is actually happening.0 -
Demonwolff✭✭✭
Thats why we already moved beyond that and compare the player numbers itself. They are visible in game now, and while Grey Host sits at 500+ which is the maximum of that list, as of yesterday at the same time, after Home campaigns and points got reset, Vengeance had 199 players in total.
Your comparing an instance that ALREADY had a player base to a new instance that hasn't even seen 2 full days of activity yet. I would imagine come the weekend you will see a better comparison for argument.
I said Vengeance would launch Flat in a previous post and it did, but that does not diminish the fact that there are players that would prefer to play there than GH. The fact that there is even a discussion here where GH advocates are hating on Veng is kind of silly. If you don't like it then don't go there. But don't blame Veng players for the lack of choices and long wait times That rests solely on ZOS for eliminating options.[Demonwolff]
Don't be an A hole because then Ill be an A hole! Trust me I'm Better at it!1 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭BardokRedSnow wrote: »
Since one bar is all you ever see in Vengeance here's what that gets you
Wow, look a snapshot of a one sided map because that never happens in GH, except every day, 3 times a day. If that's what your argument boils down to, you don't have an argument.
3 times a day, one is when people in NA are asleep, another is when they're at work, the other... i think you are just making up tbh because thats about it.
Meanwhile every time vengeance comes out including now it looks exactly like this. Coping.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BardokRedSnow✭✭✭✭✭
✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Can't speak to how many people you actually see in the campaign maps, but Vengeance has almost triple the max population, so judging by the bars is misleading. I wonder if it is making it look empty and discouraging people from joining. Maybe they need to add 9 bars lol
Well that defeats your argument about bars
No it doesn't. All that shows is more people put GH as their Home Campaign.
Yeah, which usually means its the campaign they play? Why would I put Vengeance as home, if I play Grey Host? Are you trying to upset me?
The GH campaign had already started and some might not want to abandon it part way through, especially if they already earned their end of campaign reward. Others might not have remembered to switch and GH is just their usual default. Some might be holding off on switching so they don't lose the loyalty bonus while they decide which they want to commit to. That's just off the top of my head. The point is there are real reasons someone might be playing on one with the other set as home.
Doesn't matter, if you had read, what I have written, you would know that player points were reset on Monday, and everyone had to rehome it, it did not happen automatically. So there was no progress to abandon, as there was no progress anymore.
People are creatures of habit.
OMG, just accept defeat. Vengeance was dead on arrival, deal with it. I am not discussing on such a low level..."creatures of habit" thats why PvE people did not go into Vengeance, it is their habit to not PvP at all...wonder why we have Vengeance then though.
No, dude. That's why people selected GH as their home campaign. /facepalm
Yeah, it is my habit as Blackreach player to chose Grey Host as Home, it is my habit as PvE player to set Grey Host as Home, it is my habit as Ravenwatch player to set Grey Host as home. And that new Vengeance thing which I of course wanted sooo badly, because its so much better, I do not touch, because its not my habit...
Face it, not even nearly as many people wanted Vengeance as you wish to believe. It is dead, it will stay dead.
I think the hardest thing for the Vengeance enjoyers here to accept is that these forums really are an outlier compared to the opinion of the rest of the community. Vengeance is proof that Zos needs to stop listening so much to what is said here and do more surveys abroad and even have in game links to them.
This is only one example, in the pts there's a group of people that think because they duel all day in their small group of friends that their opinion matters more than others. They said werewolf was op (its not), they made a big deal about shattered paths signet, but in bgs the long range gankers just sit up in the spawn not helping or die when they get in melee range, and the same thing applies for cyrodiil. It's not at all the big deal that people here made it seem it was and even streamers and youtubers for clickbait and engagement.
These forums are a terrible representation of what's actually going on in the game aside from identifying glitches and getting quick feedback to zos for the rework to shoot them ideas. Vengeance players got baited by their own echochamber, a very small echochamber.Zos then: Vengeance is just a test bro
Zos now: Do you want Vengeance permanent or permanent...0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »No I logged after I crashed, I will not play this game if Vengeance is my only option and right now it is. I do not have the time to wait 1 to 2 hours for Qs.
Vengeance is not even the same game. No depth, no complexity feels like they tried to load a FPS in a fantasy game. What if we did the same thing to trials, let's make all trials with loadouts and put timers on all your rotations, and everyone does the same exact damage. No one would like that!!!! It would destroy PVE.
My guild is looking at potentially playing in the sewers more. We have regular IC events so we enjoy playing in there anyways, and this may now give us reason to be in there more if we can't get into GH. We'll not be maining vengeance for sure.
I know a couple of guilds like this on AD PCEU. That works for me though, I loved IC over Covid. Was mad fun when the place was bumping!
Hell yeah, IC can be a ton of fun when there are a lot of players in there. Even when there's not a lot of players in there, the people we routinely go to war against usually show up during our regular events - just takes time for the callouts to circulate.0