Given how high damage is now, do you think no-proc Cyrodiil is a viable option to Vengeance?

moderatelyfatman · June 5

I have mixed feeling regarding no-proc Cyrodiil 'testing' back in 2021.

On the one hand, I have some very good memories of this time. There were still ball groups but, unless they contained some good players, they were beatable with enough players. I got lazy during this time and got bombed, so full credit to the player who did it. Likewise, ganking still happened but it was rare with only skilled players being successful.

On the one hand, we had a tank meta based around Pariah and Beekeeper.

The point is, damage is so much higher now. We also have the class refresh coming year and a half and the werewolf refresh in patch 50. So is it worth reopening Ravenwatch with a larger population cap (say double Grey Host) and a few adjustments to the rules and trying again?

Treeshka · June 5

No

I think no because Vengeance is separated and will not affected by any other balance changes in the future.

Gabriel_H · June 5

Maybe (Comment)

No-procs alone isn't enough to deal with the performance problems. The DoT, HoT, and shield stacking, as well as the impact of AoEs are the root cause of the problem - which is the routeI would have explored rather than honing in on completing changing the ruleset (i.e. vengeance).

Those problems don't exist in other areas of PvP as the player counts are much less than Cyro, be it BGs, IC, and the upcoming medium sized map. ZOS do however look to be exploring the idea of having skills act differently/do different damage in PvE and PvP. That could help with balance issues, but the goal of the Vengeance ruleset was to address performance not balance, and while the latter has been affected it's more a natural consequence than a goal.

Luneca · June 5

No

No, because the problem isn't sets. It's a fundamental issue which even no-proc never addressed. No proc wasn't popular because the players that realized this understood that they could just go play in CP Cyrodiil instead and keep their customization.

There was no reason to go there as long as sets like Pariah and pals exist, and defensive power could completely eclipse offensive one. Mythics also weren't disabled, if I recall that right, making it even more pointless.

With scribing put into the mix, there really became no reason to do so since the game lost any sense of balance post 2019. And it's only gotten worse in the PvP space since the introduction of mythics.

No CP can't fix a fundamental issue with the game's design and combat.

Avran_Sylt · June 5

No

There used to be outcry about sets that did damage for you (Tarnished/Caluurions), with reverence for sets that did damage for you, but indirectly through stat buffs feeding into attrition gameplay (above mentioned pariah, allowing you to spend fewer GCDs over a fight defensively focused, replacing that with offensive action).

Now that's all packed into barspace abilities that can layer themselves ontop of one another. Which wouldn't be considered "procs" per say for "no proc" cyrodiil, but effectively act the same for burst. It'll come down to: do you have the proper subclass for mutli-layered "procs" through abilities or not, and the min-maxed best defensive sets/sustain to maintain attrition against unoptimized opponents.

Damage wouldn't go down much in no-proc cyrodiil.

olsborg · June 5

Yes

To me its totally worth it, but it wont happen sadly.

LadyGP · June 5

No

Couple points.

There will always be someone crying about a set that kills them - just wait there will be a cry in vengence about "something" being OP and need to be tuned.

Second point is there just isn't enough pop to have all these camps. I know the hopes are high for vengence but aside from the initial rush/ reward FOMO from PVErs I don't see Vengence pulling a solid pop - compared to GH anyways.

BXR_Lonestar · June 5

No

No.

What they should look into is making a server where there is no subclassing, no add ons, and no scribing, but you have access to all of the armor sets in the game. I can see a mode like this getting some traction.

Freelancer_ESO · June 5

No

Probably not.

Why do you see a Casual player choosing No-Proc over Vengeance/GH?

Why do you see a non-Casual player choosing No-Proc over Vengeance/GH?

Kartalin · June 5

No

If they tried no proc again, do you think they would convey which sets were available to players in a useful and meaningful way, instead of having to test them all out ourselves?

Gabriel_H · June 6

Maybe (Comment)

LadyGP wrote: »

Second point is there just isn't enough pop to have all these camps. I know the hopes are high for vengence but aside from the initial rush/ reward FOMO from PVErs I don't see Vengence pulling a solid pop - compared to GH anyways.

Your premise seems rooted in there being distinct player bases split between PvE & PvP players. Industry surveys of MMO player bases give the following breakdown:

Only PvE: ~38% of players
Predominantly PvE (Sometimes PvP): ~44% of players
Both Equally: ~6% of players
Predominantly PvP (Sometimes PvE): ~6% to 7% of players
Only PvP: ~3% to 4% of players

The majority of players do both.

Edit: Typos

Erickson9610 · June 6

Expect Vengeance to add in procs (not stats) later this year:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Vengeance (Cyrodiil)
General [Feedback]: We want to thank everyone who hopped into the Vengeance campaign during the Update 50 PTS cycle. When Vengeance hits the live servers as a permanent campaign option alongside Gray Host, we will be closely monitoring feedback and performance and will adjust as needed. That includes opening additional campaigns if the population calls for it, making design changes if needed, etc. Vengeance is intended to be an evolving experience, and we will adjust as we go, based on your feedback. We do have some additional experimental changes planned for Vengeance later this year, such as turning on item sets to allow for the abilities to function in Vengeance but not the stats. This is all in the name of continuing to fine-tune a fun and rewarding Cyrodiil experience while retaining good server performance and higher population campaign numbers. More on this soon!

This sounds to me like the inverse of no-proc Cyrodiil. This is only-proc Cyrodiil.

heimdall14_9 · June 6

No

Voted No. Going back to no-proc is just putting a band-aid on a broken leg. It doesn’t fix the core issue.

The real problem with Cyrodiil right now isn't the sets ,skills —it's the fundamental failure of the Battle Spirit system. It hasn’t been properly overhauled to keep up with years of power creep, massive damage scaling, mythics, and scribing. Until ZOS completely rebuilds Battle Spirit from the ground up to actually balance how damage, healing, and mitigation scale in massive open-world PvP, changing campaign rulesets or banning procs is just spinning wheels. Damage/shielding / healing is way too high across the board, and a no-proc campaign won't stop optimized groups or classes from layering raw skill damage and completely melting people anyway nor them that go unkillable with heals / shields

The Elder Scrolls Online

Given how high damage is now, do you think no-proc Cyrodiil is a viable option to Vengeance?

Given how high damage is now, do you think no-proc Cyrodiil is a viable option to Vengeance? 28 votes