Poll: PvP HoT Stacking Options for Update 49

YandereGirlfriend · February 3

If that restriction applied to PvE then people would adapt.

Current strategies are used because they are the most efficient but there's always a next-most efficient strategy to fall back to.

This is a timeless truth for both game modes.

MincMincMinc · February 3

Rungar wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

here's a crazy thought: since so much of the talk on HoT stacking is basically about echoing vigor, and that's so great rn because it's stamina based and two casts can hit the whole group, what if echoing vigor instead cost magicka? it would be prevented in negates and maybe scale differently?

I'm much more interested in actually fixing balance with the same skills in both PvE and PvP rather than creating an entirely different game for PvP. I want this because, as primarily a PvP player, I don't want to be completely clueless when I try to play PvE content. I like that PvP requires knowledge of the game, abilities, and gear, and I want that knowledge to be applicable elsewhere.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Yes removing pvp heal stacking would be a good solution and could even help performance by culling ticks and subsequent procs. Diversity wise it also gives a reason for everyone to not run the same skills too. Like how back in the day youd have people running mutagen or rapid regen. Now adays for most skills we only see people run the obviously better morph. In todays copy/paste subclassing reality we could use literally any reason to branch out from the meta

While I'm not fully convinced that just removing all heal stacking in PvP is the fix, I agree with everything else here. We need more diversity in builds.

ideally pve and pvp builds should be the same. The problem is that the ESO group content model doesnt support this. If eso is to survive its worth thinking about adding group content that incentivises well rounded builds ( like pvp does) while still maintaining a group-centric theme. There are ways to do this and ive thought it was critical for a long time as we see demand for raid like content diminish in games like wow and others. Players wants are changing and you have to change with
them or dissappear.

This has always been zos's intention, but let me know at what point you could take an endgame build that runs between pve and pvp. Its just never really been viable. Even simply because of the need for impen in pvp, yet its useless in pve. Even stats dont operate the same. mobs only have a certain amount of resits whereas in pvp they vary between player. Resists also convert differently meaning how important pen compares to WD differs between pve and pvp.

in pve you dont have groups of players fully immune running you down with the equivalent of 70k hp+shields while spamming aoe pulls and charms/root/70%snare.

The combat is not even close to the point it is practically a different game. There was more crossover originally like how most mobs would do similar skills. Some mobs would do the old uppercut long charge into a knockup. This taught new players the pvp counterplay even before pvping. This form of teaching doesnt exist to help players transition into pvp from pve.

Lord_Hev · February 4

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

Kickimanjaro wrote: »

here's a crazy thought: since so much of the talk on HoT stacking is basically about echoing vigor, and that's so great rn because it's stamina based and two casts can hit the whole group, what if echoing vigor instead cost magicka? it would be prevented in negates and maybe scale differently?

I'm much more interested in actually fixing balance with the same skills in both PvE and PvP rather than creating an entirely different game for PvP. I want this because, as primarily a PvP player, I don't want to be completely clueless when I try to play PvE content. I like that PvP requires knowledge of the game, abilities, and gear, and I want that knowledge to be applicable elsewhere.

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Yes removing pvp heal stacking would be a good solution and could even help performance by culling ticks and subsequent procs. Diversity wise it also gives a reason for everyone to not run the same skills too. Like how back in the day youd have people running mutagen or rapid regen. Now adays for most skills we only see people run the obviously better morph. In todays copy/paste subclassing reality we could use literally any reason to branch out from the meta

While I'm not fully convinced that just removing all heal stacking in PvP is the fix, I agree with everything else here. We need more diversity in builds.

ideally pve and pvp builds should be the same. The problem is that the ESO group content model doesnt support this. If eso is to survive its worth thinking about adding group content that incentivises well rounded builds ( like pvp does) while still maintaining a group-centric theme. There are ways to do this and ive thought it was critical for a long time as we see demand for raid like content diminish in games like wow and others. Players wants are changing and you have to change with
them or dissappear.

This has always been zos's intention, but let me know at what point you could take an endgame build that runs between pve and pvp. Its just never really been viable. Even simply because of the need for impen in pvp, yet its useless in pve. Even stats dont operate the same. mobs only have a certain amount of resits whereas in pvp they vary between player. Resists also convert differently meaning how important pen compares to WD differs between pve and pvp.

in pve you dont have groups of players fully immune running you down with the equivalent of 70k hp+shields while spamming aoe pulls and charms/root/70%snare.

The combat is not even close to the point it is practically a different game. There was more crossover originally like how most mobs would do similar skills. Some mobs would do the old uppercut long charge into a knockup. This taught new players the pvp counterplay even before pvping. This form of teaching doesnt exist to help players transition into pvp from pve.

Funny that you mention that. One of the wandering bosses in Night Market actually does a sort of rush of agony + charm one-shot mechanic. If you block and stay in the aoe, it does like 50k damage unblockable. But if you try to use roll dodge to get out of it you get stunned, making you spend more stamina to get out (It snares). lol

brandsnipe · February 7

This is going to be tough to balance. You could limit heals to group members only with group size caps, but then what about two solos join together mid-fight? Diminishing heals on hots might help some, but groups will just adapt. Unfortunately cyrodiil is designed for ball groups and healers are a part of it for survivability. I think a revamped imperial city/new PvP zone that pushes solo/small group play would be fun.

What about this mode?
Capture the capital:
15 vs 15, defend the capital of your alliance against invading forces from one of the other two alliances. I am DC so it would be 15 of us (or how many ever) defending wayrest from 15 AD or EP.
Points go towards campaign (or some other scoring metric)?

Honestly, PvP on any game will almost always have a safety in numbers approach and the #1 priority is keeping that group alive.

CatoUnchained · June 2

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone!

Last week, we had shared two options to help address healing in PvP - most notably with stacked HoTs - after removing the initial change on the PTS: reducing the modifier to a lower value, or increasing the number of HoTs it would take to trigger the modifier. There was a lot of back-and-forth discussion in the original thread and, understandably, some pretty strong opinions.

As we start to finalize what will be going into Update 49, we’d like to ask what you would ultimately like to see, knowing our current bandwidth limitations. As we mentioned before, this is not the end all, be all; we do still intend to explore other options in the future beyond Update 49.

The two poll options below are currently the only options for Update 49. We did see many of you asking about not allowing the same type of heals to stack; this is something that was actually in the game years ago, and the sentiment was so poor that we removed it from the game. It’s something we could explore or iterate on in the future, but not for Update 49. We look forward to hearing and seeing what everyone is leaning toward for this update!

Why can't we just limit everyone to only having on HoT of any given skill at any given time. Then just have the skill timer reset when a new instance of the HoT is applied. A single flat modifier of 33% will hurt solo's and small groups more than it hurts ball groups. In other words, this proposed solution will make ball groups stronger compared to small and solos, not weaker.

So this is a bad solution proposed for the problem at hand.

Wuuffyy · June 2

This is a 4 month necro. How dare they raise the dead in my sight! Get ‘em mods!

CatoUnchained · June 2

Wuuffyy wrote: »

This is a 4 month necro. How dare they raise the dead in my sight! Get ‘em mods!

The topic is still relevant.

React · June 2

Is there any update to be shared on the other options that were going to be explored, especially in regards to damage shields?

Wuuffyy · June 2

CatoUnchained wrote: »

Wuuffyy wrote: »

This is a 4 month necro. How dare they raise the dead in my sight! Get ‘em mods!

The topic is still relevant.

I don’t disagree but this is not why they take down necro’d threads.

They’d simply rather you create a new one at this point assuming to purge out ANY antiquated information from anyone that decides to scroll by.