Question about Veterancy

TheGamerSeal · May 21

I want to quickly make it clear that this is not a complaint discussion - I have a genuine question. I'll reference one general complaint I have, but my intent is not to complain into the void.

I recently read the latest article about Veterancy (https://elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/69891), and it seems like there's been a change to how limited-time rewards will be handled, such as titles. My aforementioned complaint is that I've been very frustrated with the slew of limited-time content that is gone for who-knows-how-long if you miss it - if they ever come back at all (battle pass rewards as a prime example); because of this, I've been upset that Veterancy seems to be yet another system designed to pull the entire playerbase into a specific part of the game in order to get the newest collectibles.

My Question: The article's wording suggests that limited-time rewards, such as the Brutalist title, will only last as long as the Veterancy season does, much like how "Emperor" as a title doesn't last forever - transforming into "Former Emperor" after the campaign resets. This would be an extremely welcome reprieve from the pressure I've been feeling since these systems started appearing, beginning with the battle pass; it would allow me to go back to feeling like I can approach content at any point without fear that I'll miss out on something forever. Is this the intended behavior of Veterancy?

OsUfi · May 21

My understanding is a title like "Brutalist" remains during and after the campaign. There's meant to be two titles you can aquire during this veterancy.

The temporay titles it's referring to are more like rank 1-100. Like the current alliance war titles. But they reset each veterancy campaign.

You have 6 months to get them.

I understand some people suffer with FOMO, but this game has a hopelessly long list of achievements, items, motifs, recipes, etc. To get everything would take surely take 30,000 hours+ by now. It's easier to just let it go and accept you won't be collecting everything this game has to offer.

TheGamerSeal · May 21

OsUfi wrote: »

My understanding is a title like "Brutalist" remains during and after the campaign. There's meant to be two titles you can aquire during this veterancy.

The temporay titles it's referring to are more like rank 1-100. Like the current alliance war titles. But they reset each veterancy campaign.

You have 6 months to get them.

I understand some people suffer with FOMO, but this game has a hopelessly long list of achievements, items, motifs, recipes, etc. To get everything would take surely take 30,000 hours+ by now. It's easier to just let it go and accept you won't be collecting everything this game has to offer.

I really don't want to turn this into a FOMO discussion, because I have other discussions that directly address that. Responding to your comment though, the problem is that the newest stuff is all "get this before it's gone", while the "hopelessly long list" is stuff that will always be there when you're ready for it. There's really no reason to implement FOMO content other than to artificially inflate engagement metrics, which ultimately doesn't provide an accurate assessment on the quality of the game, just how much players are scrambling to get the rewards they want.

tomofhyrule · May 21

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

There's really no reason to implement FOMO content other than to artificially inflate engagement metrics, which ultimately doesn't provide an accurate assessment on the quality of the game, just how much players are scrambling to get the rewards they want.

Without being too cynical...
🎉Congratulations!🎉 You found the goal of every Live Service game in the current era!

I understand the hard place the devs have been placed in - players very much dislike FOMO tactics and have been asking for a way to reduce that for years, not just in ESO but in pretty well every game. But with the high-level suits demanding more for less from everyone (Microsoft does demand a 30% profit margin from all of its subsidiaries, which is insanely high), about the only thing that many Live-service games can do is try to exploit those tactics to get people to spend play as much as possible. It's the same concept of many other things moving to subscription models instead of outright purchase models - is it consumer-friendly? Absolutely not. But is it better for the company's bottom line? Well, if being consumer-friendly was the more profitable option, then every company would be going that way instead.

FOMO is not going away. We as players can choose to stand against FOMO tactics, but as long as the highest-level suits see it's profitable, it won't be going away. There's a lot of ethically-suspect research that has gone into how to most effectively hook people into your system for the longest and most profitable possible time. That's the reason every other game is moving towards seasonal models, and FOMO is just getting more and more rampant.

Again, I don't blame individual studio devs for it either, since their orders are coming from above. But we need to realize that it is our responsibility as consumers to be able to say "I am satisfied with missing out on [thing]." If I am going to spend my time and money on a product, I need to ensure that I'm doing so because I want to, not just because an unfilled bar makes me uncomfortable.

shadyjane62 · May 21

tomofhyrule wrote: »

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

There's really no reason to implement FOMO content other than to artificially inflate engagement metrics, which ultimately doesn't provide an accurate assessment on the quality of the game, just how much players are scrambling to get the rewards they want.

Without being too cynical...
🎉Congratulations!🎉 You found the goal of every Live Service game in the current era!

I understand the hard place the devs have been placed in - players very much dislike FOMO tactics and have been asking for a way to reduce that for years, not just in ESO but in pretty well every game. But with the high-level suits demanding more for less from everyone (Microsoft does demand a 30% profit margin from all of its subsidiaries, which is insanely high), about the only thing that many Live-service games can do is try to exploit those tactics to get people to spend play as much as possible. It's the same concept of many other things moving to subscription models instead of outright purchase models - is it consumer-friendly? Absolutely not. But is it better for the company's bottom line? Well, if being consumer-friendly was the more profitable option, then every company would be going that way instead.

FOMO is not going away. We as players can choose to stand against FOMO tactics, but as long as the highest-level suits see it's profitable, it won't be going away. There's a lot of ethically-suspect research that has gone into how to most effectively hook people into your system for the longest and most profitable possible time. That's the reason every other game is moving towards seasonal models, and FOMO is just getting more and more rampant.

Again, I don't blame individual studio devs for it either, since their orders are coming from above. But we need to realize that it is our responsibility as consumers to be able to say "I am satisfied with missing out on [thing]." If I am going to spend my time and money on a product, I need to ensure that I'm doing so because I want to, not just because an unfilled bar makes me uncomfortable.

Everything they have done to make that 30% extra revenue has made me spend less, unsub and wait for for Night Market to end.

TheGamerSeal · May 22

tomofhyrule wrote: »

But we need to realize that it is our responsibility as consumers to be able to say "I am satisfied with missing out on [thing]." If I am going to spend my time and money on a product, I need to ensure that I'm doing so because I want to, not just because an unfilled bar makes me uncomfortable.

That isn't our responsibility. Being satisfied with, or even settling for, missing out is a mindset you can certainly adopt, but there is no need or requirement to accept poor design choices - that's one of the reasons why feedback and the forums exist.

Danikat · May 22

TheGamerSeal wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

My understanding is a title like "Brutalist" remains during and after the campaign. There's meant to be two titles you can aquire during this veterancy.

The temporay titles it's referring to are more like rank 1-100. Like the current alliance war titles. But they reset each veterancy campaign.

You have 6 months to get them.

I understand some people suffer with FOMO, but this game has a hopelessly long list of achievements, items, motifs, recipes, etc. To get everything would take surely take 30,000 hours+ by now. It's easier to just let it go and accept you won't be collecting everything this game has to offer.

I really don't want to turn this into a FOMO discussion, because I have other discussions that directly address that. Responding to your comment though, the problem is that the newest stuff is all "get this before it's gone", while the "hopelessly long list" is stuff that will always be there when you're ready for it. There's really no reason to implement FOMO content other than to artificially inflate engagement metrics, which ultimately doesn't provide an accurate assessment on the quality of the game, just how much players are scrambling to get the rewards they want.

That is exactly it. ZOS have KPIs we're required to meet and presumably the old system wasn't doing that, so they've changed it to 'encourage' us to improve our performance and meet the quarterly targets for the shareholders.

Gabriel_H · May 23

OsUfi wrote: »

I understand some people suffer with FOMO, but this game has a hopelessly long list of achievements, items, motifs, recipes, etc. To get everything would take surely take 30,000 hours+ by now. It's easier to just let it go and accept you won't be collecting everything this game has to offer.

67,500 out of 73,500 achievement points
Every quest (except 3 PvP objective quests in cyro) done with repeatables done at least once
100% of all overland content done
100% vet dungeon and trial clears
100% speed & no death
90% hardmodes done
30% trifectas done
99% of motifs farmed

10,000 hours, ~2,000 hours of that on the PTS.

Gabriel_H · May 23

tomofhyrule wrote: »

FOMO is not going away. We as players can choose to stand against FOMO tactics, but as long as the highest-level suits see it's profitable, it won't be going away. There's a lot of ethically-suspect research that has gone into how to most effectively hook people into your system for the longest and most profitable possible time. That's the reason every other game is moving towards seasonal models, and FOMO is just getting more and more rampant.

ZOS/ESO at least repeat many events, and bring back old rewards. Between the Writhing Wall and upcoming Veterancy the only things that people could/can miss out on is a title. That's better treatment of players than most titles would do.