Necro class mastery passives are disappointing

CameraBeardThePirate · May 8

Urvoth wrote: »

In response to the Malevolent Promise dev comment:

I appreciate the response regarding Malevolent Promise, but I still think there are better solutions that would allow its use in PvP. For instance, since the issue is with the Corpseburster interaction, why not disable Corpseburster in PvP or significantly decrease the set's damage while Battle-Spirit is active? Corpseburster is already a niche PvP set and it would be much better for Necros as a whole to lose only a single set compared to an entire mastery passive. There's many other viable PvP sets, yet only 5 mastery passives per class.

There's a major use case for Malevolent Promise in PvP outside of using Corpseburster. Necro has forever lacked a strong class "sticky" dot, and Malevolent Promise would allow the tether to finally be viable in PvP. The fast ticks, alternate cost, unique damage bonus, and regen/aoe damage make it a conceptually solid skill, but its static nature and small aoe radius unfortunately mean that it's nonviable in dynamic PvP environments. This is of course on top of also being able to get faster corpse generation for skills like Deaden Pain.

Necro's identity goes a lot further than corpse bursting, and many necro players also aren't interested in a Corpseburster playstyle. It seems rather unfair to give Necro one less mastery option than other classes in PvP purely because of one interaction that can be mitigated in other ways.

I also have to question why this passive is being added in the first place if the intention after playtesting was to disable it completely in PvP. If you don't want to restrict Corpseburster in any way, why add a passive that is removed in half the game's content? Corpseburster is already fairly viable in PvE without Malevolent Promise, whereas skills like siphon are otherwise completely nonviable in PvP. Why not add a proc dot or mastery passive that leans into alternate necro themes that could work in all modes of content?

Once again, I don't think pushing this back to the necro rework and/or telling players to just wait for the rework is appropriate here. The necro rework is the second to last and isn't coming for another 2 years. That's far too long to address an issue where an already struggling class gets access to one less passive than other classes (that are also being reworked earlier).

I would much rather have the two disabled in tandem with each other.

Corpseburster, while niche, is very fun to use in PvP in an "old-school" Grave Robber set up, and looks to be getting even better next patch for that.

If the problem is the interaction between the two, just disable the interaction between the two. Don't take away either tool if the issue is the combination of two tools.

Urvoth · May 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

In response to the Malevolent Promise dev comment:

I appreciate the response regarding Malevolent Promise, but I still think there are better solutions that would allow its use in PvP. For instance, since the issue is with the Corpseburster interaction, why not disable Corpseburster in PvP or significantly decrease the set's damage while Battle-Spirit is active? Corpseburster is already a niche PvP set and it would be much better for Necros as a whole to lose only a single set compared to an entire mastery passive. There's many other viable PvP sets, yet only 5 mastery passives per class.

There's a major use case for Malevolent Promise in PvP outside of using Corpseburster. Necro has forever lacked a strong class "sticky" dot, and Malevolent Promise would allow the tether to finally be viable in PvP. The fast ticks, alternate cost, unique damage bonus, and regen/aoe damage make it a conceptually solid skill, but its static nature and small aoe radius unfortunately mean that it's nonviable in dynamic PvP environments. This is of course on top of also being able to get faster corpse generation for skills like Deaden Pain.

Necro's identity goes a lot further than corpse bursting, and many necro players also aren't interested in a Corpseburster playstyle. It seems rather unfair to give Necro one less mastery option than other classes in PvP purely because of one interaction that can be mitigated in other ways.

I also have to question why this passive is being added in the first place if the intention after playtesting was to disable it completely in PvP. If you don't want to restrict Corpseburster in any way, why add a passive that is removed in half the game's content? Corpseburster is already fairly viable in PvE without Malevolent Promise, whereas skills like siphon are otherwise completely nonviable in PvP. Why not add a proc dot or mastery passive that leans into alternate necro themes that could work in all modes of content?

Once again, I don't think pushing this back to the necro rework and/or telling players to just wait for the rework is appropriate here. The necro rework is the second to last and isn't coming for another 2 years. That's far too long to address an issue where an already struggling class gets access to one less passive than other classes (that are also being reworked earlier).

I would much rather have the two disabled in tandem with each other.

Corpseburster, while niche, is very fun to use in PvP in an "old-school" Grave Robber set up, and looks to be getting even better next patch for that.

If the problem is the interaction between the two, just disable the interaction between the two. Don't take away either tool if the issue is the combination of two tools.

I agree, I’d prefer they just not work in tandem. That seems difficult or not possible though, given what zos has stated. I do think either way necro deserves to have a fully functioning 5th mastery passive. If zos can’t figure out an appropriate solution with Corpseburster, maybe the best option is to completely redo the passive.

CameraBeardThePirate · May 9

Urvoth wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

In response to the Malevolent Promise dev comment:

I appreciate the response regarding Malevolent Promise, but I still think there are better solutions that would allow its use in PvP. For instance, since the issue is with the Corpseburster interaction, why not disable Corpseburster in PvP or significantly decrease the set's damage while Battle-Spirit is active? Corpseburster is already a niche PvP set and it would be much better for Necros as a whole to lose only a single set compared to an entire mastery passive. There's many other viable PvP sets, yet only 5 mastery passives per class.

There's a major use case for Malevolent Promise in PvP outside of using Corpseburster. Necro has forever lacked a strong class "sticky" dot, and Malevolent Promise would allow the tether to finally be viable in PvP. The fast ticks, alternate cost, unique damage bonus, and regen/aoe damage make it a conceptually solid skill, but its static nature and small aoe radius unfortunately mean that it's nonviable in dynamic PvP environments. This is of course on top of also being able to get faster corpse generation for skills like Deaden Pain.

Necro's identity goes a lot further than corpse bursting, and many necro players also aren't interested in a Corpseburster playstyle. It seems rather unfair to give Necro one less mastery option than other classes in PvP purely because of one interaction that can be mitigated in other ways.

I also have to question why this passive is being added in the first place if the intention after playtesting was to disable it completely in PvP. If you don't want to restrict Corpseburster in any way, why add a passive that is removed in half the game's content? Corpseburster is already fairly viable in PvE without Malevolent Promise, whereas skills like siphon are otherwise completely nonviable in PvP. Why not add a proc dot or mastery passive that leans into alternate necro themes that could work in all modes of content?

Once again, I don't think pushing this back to the necro rework and/or telling players to just wait for the rework is appropriate here. The necro rework is the second to last and isn't coming for another 2 years. That's far too long to address an issue where an already struggling class gets access to one less passive than other classes (that are also being reworked earlier).

I would much rather have the two disabled in tandem with each other.

Corpseburster, while niche, is very fun to use in PvP in an "old-school" Grave Robber set up, and looks to be getting even better next patch for that.

If the problem is the interaction between the two, just disable the interaction between the two. Don't take away either tool if the issue is the combination of two tools.

I agree, I’d prefer they just not work in tandem. That seems difficult or not possible though, given what zos has stated. I do think either way necro deserves to have a fully functioning 5th mastery passive. If zos can’t figure out an appropriate solution with Corpseburster, maybe the best option is to completely redo the passive.

I don't see how that would be impossible given that Pyrebrand already interacts with the Wildfire mastery.

Demonwolff · May 9

I would Like to point out That Necro when I came in was a PAY to play class. I actually bought the class with Human moneys.
Yet this pay to play class gets ignored and pushed aside or nurfed constantly.
The biggest slap in the face was Taking the BEST ability they had and changing it to a self buff.
Stalking blast Bones need to be brought back.
We need access to a form of expedition that fits in a rotation
We need Brutality and Sorcery that doesn't take a spot on the bar for the sake of taking a spot. I'd rather slot a useless rally cry than use skeletal mage.
But as for the Class mastery
These are quite frankly unacceptable for a class that is already struggling pre rework.
Every other class gets passives that translate into PVP content except Necro.
And lets be fair to the PVE players even those passives aren't great.
This class needs a ton of love and I'm a NB main

nightbringer1993 · May 9

Demonwolff wrote: »

I would Like to point out That Necro when I came in was a PAY to play class. I actually bought the class with Human moneys.
Yet this pay to play class gets ignored and pushed aside or nurfed constantly.
The biggest slap in the face was Taking the BEST ability they had and changing it to a self buff.
Stalking blast Bones need to be brought back.
We need access to a form of expedition that fits in a rotation
We need Brutality and Sorcery that doesn't take a spot on the bar for the sake of taking a spot. I'd rather slot a useless rally cry than use skeletal mage.
But as for the Class mastery
These are quite frankly unacceptable for a class that is already struggling pre rework.
Every other class gets passives that translate into PVP content except Necro.
And lets be fair to the PVE players even those passives aren't great.
This class needs a ton of love and I'm a NB main

This is exactly the point I am trying to make on forums, and I am trying to make the devs see reason concerning that class.

We paid for a product we can't use because other classes are just too strong.

The only thing necro is ok with is tanking, but with the upcoming class refresh I bet that soon even necro tanks will be kicked out of groups. Turning tide and arch druid made necro a completely unneeded class as maj vul can be accessed with those sets.

Right now I am looking very close to the "cancel subscription" button because I am tired of paying to get nerfed, and those content that released can't be enjoyed because we are forced once again into using other classes than necro.

Urvoth · May 11

No updates for Malevolent Promise again in today’s PTS notes. It’s really unfair to necro mains to have no solution to having 1 less class passive.

Wuuffyy · May 11

Urvoth wrote: »

No updates for Malevolent Promise again in today’s PTS notes. It’s really unfair to necro mains to have no solution to having 1 less class passive.

That really is a bummer for PvP. That passive would have made me very happy on live to try necro again.

I don’t know why disabling/reduction of passive while using set we are afraid of it interacting with was not considered as a viable option versus full and all-the-time disabling of the class mastery itself.

Seems a lil’ bit odd to me, to say the least.

Demonwolff · 1:19PM

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I don’t know why disabling/reduction of passive while using set we are afraid of it interacting with was not considered as a viable option versus full and all-the-time disabling of the class mastery itself.

The truth is I don't think they have a clear direction for Necro. The Necro came out because it was lore and players wanted it. However they never managed to get it right. This lead to nurfs and downgrades and changes to abilities that have left the class in purgatory.

Easiest fixes
1 Adjust the class mastery passives to not interact with Sets, They should only affect class abilities. This would also help deal with the Reverb Sorc passive issue.
2 Bring back Stalking Blast Bones, this was a HUGE mistake and its time it was rectified.
3 Bring the power level of Necro into line with other classes. By this I mean give them access to high priority buffs like Brutality and sorcery, Breach and Expedition to name a few, in abilities that make sense to use. Keeping in mind PVP and PVE are completely different animals.(all class kits should have this)

Develop necro as a Necro. Instead of two ranged abilities (Mage and archer) change one to a melee, Say skeletal warrior as an example, which could apply major breach. Since the necro stun with grasp is probably the worst in the game how about changing a morph to an expedition instead. What I'm saying is find a direction that will make the Players feel good about the class again and stay the course. Because currently I'm not optimistic for the refresh. I want to be I really do but at this point I see it falling even further behind the other classes.

Now I realize some of these things are already attached to other abilities, IE Brutality and sorcery on mage..... I personally hate this ability and its morphs and would prefer a melee version and with reworks upcoming why not put it out there. The other issue is many of the Necro abilities are, to be polite, not very good in either PVE or PVP many more than other classes.
Lets get this right