ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden is probably almost done you should be trying to jump sorcerer.

Prionyx wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden is probably almost done you should be trying to jump sorcerer.

And their work is probably early stages too, PTS for Sorc would be 2nd week of September, 4 months away. The bigger overhauls probably take between 4~6 months which seems to be why WW was used as a breather in U50.

Warden needs massive work from top to bottom, Sorc is a close 2nd, hanful of great abilities, but both have dated VFX/SFX, clunky ability animations, a huge pile of dead skills, and Perma Pet AI that has been a massive point of contention since 2014.

The 3rd hardest class to rehaul imo would probably be Necro from a functionality/fantasy standpoint, they already have some pretty good VFX/SFX, but how the skills and class kit functions is messed up with many people claiming it doesn't really feel like the traditional Necro you find in other RPGs which is entirely true. Probably why Templar and NB come before Necro, but after Warden and Sorc, to give breathing room like WW provided.

Try Templar. Skrew those guys right lol?

Templar is the only class worse than Nightblade too lol.

Templar is better, it's not even second worst

Sarthendria wrote: »

Warden rework will show us how the devs intend on tackling classes that where designed with each skill line to be a separate roll, and if they intend to keep that strictly for those classes (which I hope they do not do), or make something new out of the skill lines rather then have them be strictly x skill line for y roll. Thats why I personally think Warden being next is important. It will show us the design philosophy of the class reworks more then the DK one did, and if this is more an organized philosophy of each class being well...a class, and not just 3 skill lines with different rolls.

Also warden rework is likely already finished and ready to be on the next pts after the current one goes live. I dont think any class rework is going to be rearranged to be in an order other then the order we already got in the roadmap, even as much as id like an earlier necromancer rework.

Pinktraining wrote: »

Sarthendria wrote: »

Warden rework will show us how the devs intend on tackling classes that where designed with each skill line to be a separate roll, and if they intend to keep that strictly for those classes (which I hope they do not do), or make something new out of the skill lines rather then have them be strictly x skill line for y roll. Thats why I personally think Warden being next is important. It will show us the design philosophy of the class reworks more then the DK one did, and if this is more an organized philosophy of each class being well...a class, and not just 3 skill lines with different rolls.

Also warden rework is likely already finished and ready to be on the next pts after the current one goes live. I dont think any class rework is going to be rearranged to be in an order other then the order we already got in the roadmap, even as much as id like an earlier necromancer rework.

They could easily stop developing Warden immediately and start reworking Nightblade right away; there's already too much evidence that Nightblade is currently the weakest and least played class in the game.

• Sorc has 108 w/s damage, NB has 2% crit chance per skill.
• Sorc has 5% stam/mag and 5% HP with a permanent pet (which no one uses), NB has 6% stam/mag.
• NB gets Major Resolve on a passive which is entirely unique to them, it esentially turns every skill in Shadow to your Armor skill which is in effect, saving you a bar slot. Why on earth would you compare it to DK's reworked passive when they have entirely different purposes.
• Why does Sorc's Exploitation passive only proc from Dark Magic skill casts, but NB's proc from any critical strike which happens multiple times a second and their passive gives 10% crit damage while Sorc's gives nothing additional. Did you factor that in your list?

Alp wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Warden is probably almost done you should be trying to jump sorcerer.

And their work is probably early stages too, PTS for Sorc would be 2nd week of September, 4 months away. The bigger overhauls probably take between 4~6 months which seems to be why WW was used as a breather in U50.

Warden needs massive work from top to bottom, Sorc is a close 2nd, hanful of great abilities, but both have dated VFX/SFX, clunky ability animations, a huge pile of dead skills, and Perma Pet AI that has been a massive point of contention since 2014.

The 3rd hardest class to rehaul imo would probably be Necro from a functionality/fantasy standpoint, they already have some pretty good VFX/SFX, but how the skills and class kit functions is messed up with many people claiming it doesn't really feel like the traditional Necro you find in other RPGs which is entirely true. Probably why Templar and NB come before Necro, but after Warden and Sorc, to give breathing room like WW provided.

Try Templar. Skrew those guys right lol?

Templar is the only class worse than Nightblade too lol.

Templar is better, it's not even second worst

In pvp or pve? I think it's a good idea to clarify because people constantly argue over these things without considering how different it often is.

Sarthendria wrote: »

Warden rework will show us how the devs intend on tackling classes that where designed with each skill line to be a separate roll, and if they intend to keep that strictly for those classes (which I hope they do not do), or make something new out of the skill lines rather then have them be strictly x skill line for y roll. Thats why I personally think Warden being next is important. It will show us the design philosophy of the class reworks more then the DK one did, and if this is more an organized philosophy of each class being well...a class, and not just 3 skill lines with different rolls.

Also warden rework is likely already finished and ready to be on the next pts after the current one goes live. I dont think any class rework is going to be rearranged to be in an order other then the order we already got in the roadmap, even as much as id like an earlier necromancer rework.

hoangdz wrote: »

My guy, no. NB literally only needs their class masteries adjusted for now, not the whole class.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Al_Ex_Andre wrote: »

Unfortuntely refresh were decided upon which class looks like the most popular, either to the devs or the community, but yeah, OP is certainly right Nightblades probably need a refresh asap..along Necros and Templars.

The refreshes were clearly done based on how much work classes needed and their current stance. Anyone who is trying to say that some classes 'deserve' it more is not looking at a holistic picture (and I can't help but notice everyone arguing "[X] Class should be earlier!" also surprisingly mains that Class.. hmmm...).

DK was chosen as the first one since the DK is a very simple Class - there's no special mechanics that DKs need to worry about, it's essentially the best starter class that people should be able to pick up and go with. It also has three well-defined themes for its lines and the Class skills could just be reshuffled a bit to get each line to be able to do all three roles, and there really wasn't that much that needed to be redone. As such, DK would be a perfect proof-of-concept since they could focus on making it a template for other Classes instead of having to spend a lot of time trying to solve problems while they were trying to get a baseline.

Warden was second because it proved the first major challenge: how to take a Class with role-defined lines and shuffle it into something with Skill Line-based concepts. Again though, Warden really doesn't have any special mechanics that it needs to sort through beyond one single skill that involves a permanent pet. But the big focus there would be the fact that skills need to be decently modified to make the Green Balance line get some damage capability and Animal Companions get some support (Winter's did have a lot already done to make it have damage capability already).

With the fact that they're starting on pet logic, the next obvious class to move to is the class that's all about pets. Most of Sorc's rework is probably going to go into getting the pets figured out, but then they'll need to deal with a lot of its imbalance in the PvP arena and the fact that some of its skill lines are kinda useless. However, the lines aren't super strictly delineated by role

As for the later ones, Templars have one skill with a corpse mechanic so that's something they'll have to work on there. Templars also are one of the basegame Classes with a strict healing line that needs to be broken up. Nightblades are kind of in the same boat where they have one strict damage line that's so OP that it's essentially required on every build, along with two other lines that are practically unused. There will need to be a lot of fiddling to get that to work. NB also has the issue that most of its damage is single-target while more and more encounters are desiring of cleave, so that's another area that will have to get some attention.

And then of course is the Class that needs the most attention hands down. However, by the time they get to Necromancer, they'll have already figured out the pet logic from Sorcs and maybe even started to touch on the corpse mechanic from Templar. The entire Class almost needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to deemphasize the role-based system and get it to work well (which it currently doesn't), along with dealing with things like Grave Lord's Sacrifice, which pretty well nobody likes. As such, that's a massive undertaking. Finally, they need to give the same treatment to Arcanist, but at least that one doesn't feel obscenely clunky to use, but it does need a lot of work to split the lines.

It's fully logical why they chose the order they did, and has nothing to do with "my favorite Class is first and the Class I hate is last." They are building on each other in this order, and the later ones will need more work than the earlier ones because of how many unique mechanics/features they involve and how much would need to be rebuilt from scratch.
I get that it's not fun to have to wait for your main to get touched, but the "scrap everything and do my Class NOW!" idea would only result in that Class only getting less than a month of work and end up being a thrown-together disaster while all the other Classes get to become amazing. I have to wonder why so many people hate their main Classes so much that the want the devs to do a rushed hack job on their main Class instead of giving it the time it needs.

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

NB has issues but doesn't merit a rework before the actual dumpster fires like templar or necromancer.